My choice if hunting Deer to Bears would be 2 rifles. either a .270 or 7mm Magnum (Remington / WSM) and a .338 Win Mag. The .270/7mm would cover you nicely for Mule Deer, Antelope, Whitetail and step up to Elk (.270 & 7mm with heavier premium bullets for Elk). Then the .338 would cover you nicely for Moose, and the Bears (and .338 works nicely for Elk as well).

If I had to use just one rifle, hmmm maybe a .338 since you can load the 160gr / 185gr Barnes for Deer, and then up to 225gr / 250gr or heavier projectiles for your bigger bite back species.

Get a Cowboy Marlin 1895 in 45-70. Replace the standard rear sight with a ladder sight like you find on a Winchester 1873, and replace the front sight with a blade sight made from a copper penny.

The Cowboy Marlin holds eight in the magazine and one in the chamber for NINE rounds, and is a tack driver. Mine is set up like this, and with the ladder sight you can reach from the end of your barrel to 500 plus yards if your eyes and marksmanship are up to it.

350 grain cast bullets with light loads are pleasant to shoot, and give complete pass through on deer, elk, hogs, and black bear. Step up to ammo like Garretts' Hammerheads, and you can hammer anything in North America and Africa.

I do 98% of my hunting with a Sharps in either 45-70 or 45-110, but I REALLY LIKE the 1895 Marlin. Loaded properly, the 45-70 is the single most broad spectrum effective cartridge we have. Don't sell it short.

Since you included coastal brown bears, I'd say minimum .300 Win Mag and would probably be more comfortable with a .338 Win.

Still, I'd be tempted to get a .375 H&H...then you've got a rifle that can handle any animal on the planet.

Huge Fan of the 7mm REM.Mag but I'd have to go with the

35 Whelen
AK

A nice lite slim 358 Norma mag would suffice for me!

338 Win Mag-Mine is a pre64 M70

SSR

How did this thread get reserected after this long.

I have taken foxes without noticeable damage to their fur with .300 win .338 and a .375 H&H, the heavy bullets just don't expand and blow the hides apart.
I have also taken Brown bear with all three of these calibers never had a problem with them ether, So take your pick,
Personally I would choose the .300 because the avarage guy will likely take only one Brown bear in his life yet you will carry that heavy rifle around every time you hunt a deer ( I don't think so)

I have taken so many criters with .338's in Alaska and Africa, I would trust any of my .338's to handle anything in the world for that matter.

Life with only one rifle would be a boreing place allthough you should be proficent with it.

I would however stay away from the 7mm's.

My choice would be one of my .358 STA's with bullets from 185 grains up to 310 grains. I probably would have said my .300 Winny, had I not had an encounter with 4 Brown Bears at close range with it in my hands. It did the job, however I vowed the next time I was in big Bear country I would have something more substancial in my hands. Good shooting.

Isn't this merely a call for the ole 3 Six Bits?

I'd vote for a 375 H&H, mild recoil, can shoot 250g Swift A-Frames at 2800 fps for the smaller stuff, 300g A-Frames, TSX's or 350g Woodleighs or North Forks for the bigger dangerous stuff. I'd have it rechambered for 375 Weatherby, but it's going to be handed down to my son and he wants to leave it an H&H.

Once I got tired of chasing Elk here in Colorado, I listened to the older wise men, and got a 35 whelen. believe me the elk stopped moving, and it sure will down any bear...a wonderful and easily loaded caliber.Not that much recoil either so a light rifle can be had.

I stand by the 375 h&h,does it all.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
A nice lite slim 358 Norma mag would suffice for me!

That round does not get enough props. A lot to be said for it.

338wm or 375 H+H. I do not own anything under 308 diameter except a 22 Hornet for pests.

Even though I voted for the 375 H&H, if I truly wasn't ever going to leave North America I would probably go with a 300 Weatherby Mag. Flatter shooting than a 338 or 375, enough punch for the big bears with a 200g Nosler, flat shooting enough with a 180 Nosler at 3250 fps for any game at any distance my skill level would allow me to shoot.

This thread reminds me of the early gloabe troting hunters who were some of the first guys who traveled around trophy hunting.

I'm talking about guys like Elgin Gates, Roy Weatherby,C.J. Mackelroy,etc

Those guys all went on long expeditions and took a rifle they thought would handle everything that moved in that part of the world. The .300 Weatherby was the #1 choice for these guys.

I had a client back about twenty five years ago. An older gentleman from Georgia named Jones. He was one of those breed of guys and indeed his rifle was a first generation Southgate Weatherby Built on a FN action and chambered for the .300 Weatherby.

He told me storys about hunting just about everything on earth with that .300. I perticularly remember him telling me about finishing up a safari and his P.H. offering to have him come along on a buffalo cull.

I don't remember how many buff he told me he shot with the Weatherby but it was dozens. Some guys have all the luck.

He was 63 at the time of that hunt so I guess if he is still with us he is near 90 now. He did take a sheep on that hunt with the .300 he was quite proficient with it.

For several years around here I used a .300 weatherby. I really like the cartridge and it worked quite well. Mine came in a Remington 721.

As that rifle is rh and I'm not I no longer use it and now muddle thru a small group of lh rifles that I show no allegiance to or preference for, very disrespectful I know. I do feel some kind of preference for my lh .375 H&H although I've no interest in carrying it sheep hunting.

I WOULD NOT recommend a 45/70 45/110, or any old black powder cartridge as Sharps Guy did. A copper penny for a front sight does not make for a good long range front sight for sheep that can run over the ridge and out of your sight forever or a mtn goat that really would rather throw himself over an un traversable cliff than succumb to you. Further, a lead slug or low bc light for caliber bullet going something slightly less than 2000 fps certainly does and can kill game every hunting season but is not in the same league as say the 270g .375 caliber TSX bullet going more or less 2800 fps. Yes the 45/70 workes well on lots of Alaskan big game every year. So does a bow and arrow, a .223, floods, rock slides and automobiles. I wouldn't recommend any of them. If a sportsman likes using what we loosely define as primitive weapons I think thats super but if the premis of this conversation is "One Gun,...." and therefore what is the best or which cartridge hold the number one spot, then obviously one of the 30 on up to 35 calibers in modern configurations would be it

Good post Scott

Scott--Don't knock a copper penny front sight until you have learned how to use one and have tried it. In 2009 I killed a springbok on the Eastern Cape of RSA at a lasered 525 yards with a Sharps on the first shot using the same sight set up I have described. A properly loaded 45-70 or 45-110 with this sight set up works at long range in the hunting fields.

I have taken kudu and blue wildebeast in excess of 300 lasered yards, shooting all the way through them and knocking them off their feet. I also have another springbok at 327 yards with one shot with these sights, DRT and down. I have this on dvd. Not too long ago there was a post on here of dvd footage of a zebra I took with one shot with these sights and lead bullets with a Sharps. Do a search and check it out, if you are intrested.

Don't base what someone else can do or knock his equipment recommendations as a result of your own substandard expectations.

375 is a great choice and probably would be mine, but I would like to submit the 8MM Mag. Underloaded by factories, but when loaded right it is capable of both long range and power. A friend of mine has been using one to drop moose, Oryx and anything else that stands in front of hime. It is a thumper.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Scott--Don't knock a copper penny front sight until you have learned how to use one and have tried it. In 2009 I killed a springbok on the Eastern Cape of RSA at a lasered 525 yards with a Sharps on the first shot using the same sight set up I have described. A properly loaded 45-70 or 45-110 with this sight set up works at long range in the hunting fields.

I have taken kudu and blue wildebeast in excess of 300 lasered yards, shooting all the way through them and knocking them off their feet. I also have another springbok at 327 yards with one shot with these sights, DRT and down. I have this on dvd. Not too long ago there was a post on here of dvd footage of a zebra I took with one shot with these sights and lead bullets with a Sharps. Do a search and check it out, if you are intrested.

Don't base what someone else can do or knock his equipment recommendations as a result of your own substandard expectations.

I believe everything you wrote. I have no doubt you and your rifles are capable. I even mentioned in my earlier post that there have been and will continue to be big game taken with the old cartridges right here in Dillingham. With bows and arrows too.

However, I'm not about to learn to use a penny for a front sight since I use telescopic sights. The reason I use them is because they are actually better or as this thread loosely asked for, number 1, the best. I'm also not going to, (at least I don't think so tonight,) start using black powder cartridges and cast bullets since the performance of many modern centerfire cartridges with modern premium bullets are vastly superior to the lead slinging Sharps. Locally I feel no need to try the 45-whatevers since my .375 works so great.

Thats really my only point. a muzzle loader or a Sharps or a 30/30 or a .223 or a long bow will and have worked great on the biggest bear, dall sheep, bull moose or mtn goat. If a hunter going out with me wanted to bring one I think that'd be fine with me. There are many many weapons that work better.

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Wouldn´t the 9.3x62 be sufficient? I have no experience hunting of hunting bears -or Alaska- but I think that a premium bullet in 286gr would be sufficient for any NA animal.

It certainly would be sufficient, but you're going to have a hard time finding ammo, etc. for it in AK. It's not exactly a well known caliber here.

Well, most online/telephone vendors, aka Graf's do have next day air.

In fact I had my purpose built Alaska rifle built on a Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62.


Alan

From my limited experience (and all experience is limited) I would suggest that there are considerations other than chamberings that should be considered. The most important in my view is to know the anatomy of the animal, and to be able to visualize those parts when the animal is in various positions. Too many hunters aim at general areas,especially under stress, rather than at specific targets.
Some hunters do not react well to stress and cool, efficient action under stress does not happen. Before coming to Alaska, I spent numerous hours at a zoo watching the bears and visualizing a shot to the balloon (heart, lungs,shoulder).
Your rifle should fit like a glove, should work without flaw and effortlessly, and you should be able to shoot well, quickly without taking the gun from your shoulder.
In my view any chambering from 30-06 and bigger will suffice if a suitable bullet arrives at the proper point.
As an aside: Roy Lindsey,about 1953, told me the story of his hunt for the museum. If memory serves, he borrowed the 30-06 which was used. I will ask Jim Readon about that.
But discussions about suitable chamberings is always entertaining. Was it Einstien who said that he had utter contempt for authority?

This is why I bought a Blaser R93. I have a 300 win mag and a 375 barrel. I can switch barrels easily and they stay zeroed.

Nice gun. If I need more calibers, I will buy more barrels.

Can't remember if I listed what I would use or not. I will again though. I am very comfortable with my 338 Win Mag. I have taken Deer and Elk with it. On light thin skinned game it is like running over them with a big truck. I would like to see it work on something like a big bear. DW

Wow. This thread jumps from 10 September 2006 to 29 March 2011.

My first choice for a hypothetical one gun scenario is a 12 gauge Paradox gun. The Paradox is capable of bringing down any animal in North America but everything has trade-offs. The Paradox gun would not be useful for long shots. The trade-off is that the Paradox gun shoots shot and would be very useful for birds, rabbits, and other small game on the move.

That being said, I am sure the original poster's intent was to discuss rifles. I have only a little experience in Alaska, some around big bears but no experience hunting big bears. I remember one trip in particular during which I enjoyed dinner at the Anchorage home of an old guide named Ken Oldham. It was 1980 and I was lucky to be traveling/working with his nephew, Jay. Thus the invite.

Mr. Oldham talked in detail about hunting bears. He brought out a big bear hide, biggest I have ever seen, and we took turns handling it, marveling at the claws and jaws. Mr. Oldham gave his favorite rifle to my friend on that trip. He explained to us that he had used it for many years on all sorts of Alaskan game and he had taken more bears than you could shake a stick at with it. The rifle was a very well used pre-64 Winchester model 70 in .30-06. Ken Oldham said that, though he considered a 270 as the minimum for the big bears, he required his clients to use a 30-06 or larger.

I am no Ken Oldham. I would rather have a little bit more than a 30-06. A 300 magnum shoots a little bit flatter, is better with bullets that weigh a little bit more, and hits a little bit harder than a 30-06. My favorite 300 magnum is the 300H&H. Therefore, my vote would be for the 300H&H.

FWIW, here is an excerpt from Ken Oldham's obituary:

"Kenneth Dean Oldham, 81, pioneering bush pilot, big game guide, commercial fisherman, loving father and husband, died Jan. 21, 2008, surrounded by his family at Providence Alaska Medical Center.

Ken was born April 15, 1926, to Carroll Langley Oldham and Vela "Vicki" Morris Wicks Oldham in St. Louis. He was the second son in a family of eight children: Rick, Marilyn, "Bud" Warner Oldham, Jack Nelson, Jerry Nelson, Jimmy Nelson and David Nelson. The family moved from Tennessee to Heber City, Utah, in the early 1930s and then to Washington state.

In 1940, at age 14, Ken joined the Merchant Marines and served in the Pacific Theater on a supply transport carrier that served Guam and the Philippines. After the war, he worked as ship's steward on several passenger ships that traveled back and forth between Alaska and Seattle. He was a part of the rescue efforts to save passengers on the MV Denali Northwest Passage. During this time, he developed his dream of moving to Alaska, starting a business and raising his family there.

In 1945, Ken married Lorraine Oldham in Seattle. He learned the construction trade, becoming a journeyman carpenter, while working on the Hanford Nuclear Plant. At this same time, he obtained his pilot's license in Pasco, Wash. He was a member of Carpenter's Union 1320. He and Lorraine moved the family up the Alaska Highway in 1949. He worked repairing and establishing bridges on the early roads of Alaska and as a journeyman carpenter, often taking his young family with him for the adventure. He earned his commercial pilot's license and instrument rating, and became a flight instructor at Merrill Field. He was a member of the Masonic Order.

Ken loved the challenges, adventure and friendship that life in territorial Alaska brought. He thrived on the challenges of flying in the Arctic, Alaska Range and Wrangell Mountains. He flew petroleum geologists across the North Slope and built armories at Togiak and Barter Island using his building skills and his ability to fly in difficult conditions. He became a registered hunting guide in 1959 and focused his energies establishing a lodge in the Alaska Range on property he had homesteaded.

In 1960, he married Mary Herlihey Oldham and moved to High Lake Hunting Lodge, which he built on the upper Susitna River. The lodge served as the primary camp for an international guiding and outfitting business that spanned Alaska, from the shores of Siberia to the Wrangell Mountains, and to the estuaries of the Alaska Peninsula. He respected the local knowledge and survival skills that the Native people of each area shared with him. He had a strong admiration for the beauty of the Alaska wilderness and the people who lived there, which he shared with his family and clients.

In the late 1960s, he started filming wildlife, hunting expeditions and Native ways of life in his spare time. In 1974, he built a commercial fishing camp and obtained commercial fishing permits for his family who setnetted and driftnetted, based out of the village of Egegik.

In 1993, he retired to live in the Philippines, where he had been spending his vacations since the 1970s. He greatly enjoyed his life and the Filipino people, traveling extensively throughout Southeast Asia. In 1996, he married Evelinda Abubo Oldham. In 2003, he moved back to Anchorage to be closer to family and advanced medical care."

If your speaking of big bears in Alaska, the minimum I would use is a .338 Win mag with 250 or 275 Swift A Frame bullets. Next up the ladder would be the .375 H&H caliber!

To answer a 6 year old question, 2 or 3 rifles would be better suited to the original question than anything discussing the "most versatile caliber for North America".

I can see including bears, but how about mountain goats? Who wants to be carrying a bear rifle in the mountains? I think it is better to get a rifle for what you plan to do most of your hunting with, and when you change that (prairie dogs, for instance) borrow, buy, or build another rifle better suited for that particular hunt.

quote:

I can see including bears, but how about mountain goats? Who wants to be carrying a bear rifle in the mountains?

I dunno, wasn't the world record Stone Sheep killed with a 404 Jeffery???

Just my 0.2 cents, but if I was looking around for a 1 calibre rifle to hunt anything in Nth America it would be a .338 Win Mag.

For Deer / Antelope I would download the .338 Win Mag to 338/06 performance with the lighter 185 gr bullets, but then for Bears you could then load up your heavier weight projectiles.

I shot a Remington 700BDL for a couple of years in .338 Win Mag and never found it to be a punishing calibre to shoot.

Cheers,

Michael.

I just bought a Rem XCR II that's being rechambered from 375 H&H to 375 Weatherby. It weighs 7 3/8 pounds with a 2x7 Leupold on it, recoil is gentle. I think it's a fine caliber for any big game in North America, a little much for varmints though.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I just bought a Rem XCR II that's being rechambered from 375 H&H to 375 Weatherby. It weighs 7 3/8 pounds with a 2x7 Leupold on it, recoil is gentle. I think it's a fine caliber for any big game in North America, a little much for varmints though.

THAT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE VARMINTS

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
To answer a 6 year old question, 2 or 3 rifles would be better suited to the original question than anything discussing the "most versatile caliber for North America".

I can see including bears, but how about mountain goats? Who wants to be carrying a bear rifle in the mountains? I think it is better to get a rifle for what you plan to do most of your hunting with, and when you change that (prairie dogs, for instance) borrow, buy, or build another rifle better suited for that particular hunt.

Sounds good, but, here in BC, where we have Grizzlies as large as the Alaskan ones and the largest number of RM Goats anywhere, the bears are often found in the high country in hunting season.

At the moment, I have 34 big game rifles, about 31 more than I actually "need", but........ These range from the .264WM to the .458WM and include most popular chamberings and several rifle types. I am slowly building an "ultralight" 7-08 based on a Remmy Mohawk and expect to use it more and more as I get older.

That said and while I have lots of custom, tuned, "mountain rifles" of the "JOC" style, albeit with contemporary synthetic handles, etc. I still own and use six CRF .338WM rifles and will always choose one of these for any hunt where I am not familiar with the area or am going to backpack or horsepack meat. I load 250NPs and use good irons with QD scope mounts as I am more comfortable with this combo than anything else in Grizzly country.

So, all in all, I really prefer a .338WM-.270Win. or .280Rem. combo for my uses in whatever North American hunting I will do. Each to his own, the best rifle for any hunter, IMHO, is the one he can shoot best under stress.

quote:

THAT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE VARMINTS

WE do grow oversized varmints up here

I never tire of seeing that bear Phil ...

Because I had one for many years I think a custom lightweight 338WM would be about perfect for a one rifle to do it all in NA. The lighter ACB bullets through the 250 TSX should handle everything. I had excellent luck personally with the 210 NP, 225 SAF and 250 NP.

Mark

I have an old Ruger 77, tang safety, .338 WM that I'm awfully fond of. I've shortened the barrel to 21", had it magna-ported and put pachmyer sling swivels and a decelerater recoil pad on. I only lost about 40 fps by shortening the barrel and it sure is much handier and faster in heavy brush and blowdowns. I load 210, 225 and 250gr. partition bullets in it. They all shoot well and recoil is no problem. I would gladly hunt any game from javelinas to grizzlies with it.

As I am new to posting on the forum take this for what it is worth. I have shot a grizzly with a 7mm STW and several black bears with a STW, 7 mag, and 450 marlin. I shot the grizzly with 150 scirroccos (sp?), he flopped on the shot from a good distance and was dying when I arrived. The bullet penetrated through the off shoulder and was under the hide, angle was quartering away. Saying this, I do not consider any 7mm ideal for bear but like many above have said good bullets and proper shot placement is the biggest factor. I have seen dozens of bears including some grizzlies shot with a variety of calibers including the 308 win, 7mm, 41 mag, 44 mag, 300 win, 338 etc.... The ones that died quickly were from guys that new how to shoot, shot good bullets, or, someone that got damn lucky and made a shot that happened to connect with the nervous system. I also agree it isn't any fun to own one gun.