quote:

Originally posted by schmaus:
Sorry to be ANOTHER person to have to tell you this but.....

If you must use a 7mm (of any chambering) You will be ok and i stress only ok with most big game untill you hit brown bears, in which case you will quickly and surely be turned into bear poop.

Schmaus

quote:

Originally posted by Jeffery L. Johnson:
I'll go out on a limb and suggest the 8mm Remington magnum with the one thing it was always lacking...a 9mm bullet!

quote:

Originally posted by Deputy Al:
I think it's a pretty low-profit venture to argue against the 338 Win Mag or 375 H&H to answer this question--so I won't.

I selected the 9.3 x 62 for this venue, based on its 5 round capacity vs. 3 round capacity in most rifles. 286 grains of Nosler Partition at 2400 FPS is a LOT of oomph, and while not as flat-shooting as the 338 or 375......the 9.3 "down-loads" a LOT better than the 338 did for me. The 375 apparently does good work like the 9.3 does with cast bullets, but we're back to the mag capacity argument--so I chose the CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62. The 9.3 was chosen over the 35 Whelen due to the rifling pitch--roughly 1-13" in the CZ x 9.3 as opposed to 1-16 in most Whelens. The faster pitch in the 9.3 was believed at time of purchase to do better work with heavier bullets. The Nosler 286's run 1.1"-1.25" 5-shot groups at 100 yards, so I guessed THAT part of the question correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I know that if you try for one all purpose rifle you will have to make sacrifices on one or both ends of the spectrum.

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
Hi Alaskan People , please tell me what is the minimum cal. to hunt kadiac bears , I read it was .338 a few years back , please refresh the whole state info please for calibers to hunt bears .Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by SD Shooter:
I have just discovered this topic and I have really enjoyed the wealth of information that has been presented on this topic. Although I didn't make the original post, I certainly appreciate the opportunity to contemplate the information from so many knowledgeable members of our gun culture. My following post does not fully address the universal North American rifle, but I do feel that the post is relevant to the discussion. In 2002 I was a constant reader of Marlin Talk which was at that time sponsored by Marlin Firearms. The topic of bear hunting was hot then as it continues to be now, and I posted the following regarding that topic. Since 2002 I have been on two bear hunts and both times had very close encounters which could have been exceedingly unpleasant. If you choose to not read this post all the way through the subject matter can be summed up as: When in bear country, ALWAYS carry the LARGEST caliber gun that you can shoot competently! The very last thing that you or your guide wants is a very mobile, wounded bear whether it be at 250 yards or at 10 yards, in the open or in the bush.

From 2002:

I am retired now, but in my prior life, I was a lay-Coroner. I have investigated the cause and manner of death in many shootings. I have seen the results of a variety of different calibers on human targets, by being at the scene of the shootings, being present at many autopsies as well as being to many training seminars on this topic. Some observations which might apply to this discussion:

1. There have been more civilians (non-military) killed by .22 caliber bullets than any other caliber.
2. To properly evaluate reactions to being shot, it is prudent to eliminate victims that are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.
3. Many shooting victims give up the fight because they have seen enough movies and TV shows to know that when they get shot, they are supposed to fall down, or fall backwards, or go flying across the room and through the window, or stagger and gasp, and maybe roll their eyes.
4. Victims that have been hit in the central nervous system go down instantly.
5. Victims that are hit in the cardio-vascular system do not necessarily give up the fight immediately, unless they have watched enough TV to know that they should. But they do very often die at some point in the future, and often, they do a great deal more harm prior to that point when they die.
6. Victims that are hit in the knee, leg bone, spine, pelvis, hip, etc. usually go down immediately. Thus, the loss of mobility reduces the potential for additional harm.

Now where do we go with this information?

A. It should be assumed that bears are not on drugs or alcohol.
B. Bears, if shot with a .22 caliber or other relatively small caliber firearm, may eventually die.
C. Bears hit in the central nervous system will probably stop all aggressive action immediately, even though they have not watched TV/movies about what they should do.
D. Bears shot with a large caliber firearm where the projectile only damages the cardio-vascular system will probably die a little sooner, but can still do a lot of damage to a human prior to the bear's demise.

So the point to all of this is that it is desirable to use a firearm that, if the shot is properly (or luckily) placed, will provide the destruction of bone, joints, spine, skull, etc. as well as the destruction of the cardio-vascular and/or the central nervous system. Obviously, there is a great degree of either well-practiced skill, or a greater degree of luck involved in shot placement on a charging bruin. If the bear ends up with a shoulder or two that are non-functional, it's level of aggression may remain very high, but the ability to manifest that aggression will be less effective because of its reduction in mobility.

So, included in the overall discussion, it seems prudent to consider not so much the death of the bear, but the immediate incapacitation of the bear. Whatever caliber is selected, it seems desirable that it has the ability to deliver bone-crushing effects so that if the shooter is lucky enough to hit "bone," the bear may be slowed enough that additional shots can be more precisely placed.

I also did some follow up on the fishermen that had the bear encounter on the Russian River in Alaska while salmon fishing. Although the gentleman had a 12 gauge shotgun and had made a good selection of defensive equipment, he didn't plan or train very well because he couldn't remember whether he had a round in the chamber, thus he elected to throw the shotgun at the bear (and surrender his fish), and seek "refuge" in the river. He had two companions that were both armed with 9mm handguns. They both emptied their guns into the bear. Not the best selection of equipment, but there were some very lucky hits that damaged the shoulders of the bear, and thus the bear retreated, and ultimately died. (If I was not religious before this event, I certainly would have become very religious following it).

When I started writing this I certainly did not intend to go on at such length. I appreciate the patience of each of you and I hope that the information and observations are taken in the spirit intended, and that is, to apply some prior experience, to the questions at issue.

When in bear country, ALWAYS carry the LARGEST caliber gun that you can shoot competently!

quote:

Originally posted by SD Shooter:
Hi Jarrod,

Of course you are right, people with training such as military and law enforcement very seldom give up. And the person that is committed to a purpose (like killing a spouse) may not give up. But the point of the discussion is the correlation of "stopping the aggressor." My point is that any caliber may eventually cause the death of the bear (or the bad guy), but we don't want a wounded bear in the brush that we have to go find. Therefore, a bigger bullet with more energy has a much better potential for preventing a very dangerous encounter. Seldom is this a concern with whitetails, muleys or elk.

I apologize for not being more clear in my discussion. Thanks for your observation.

Merry Christmas,

SD Shooter

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
Hi
My brother and I want one gun for North America. Texas to Alaska. Including Brown Bears. We have narrowed it down to 7mm RUM vs 7mm STW. What are your thoughts, ofcourse they will be built on a ss rem 700 action (w/ Sako extractor) with a Rimrock syn stock.
Dr B