I have lived 20 years Nprth of 60 in Canada and
my own choice is 358 Norma. Love the flexibility and bullet impact with my dwindling supply of 300 Barnes is fantastic.

However, I think the 7mm might not be a bad choice except for Brown/Polar Bear..and if you were careful and steady it would do o.k even there. Lots of Inuit in Canada feel the .303 is excellent polar bear medicine.

Just use a very good 175 grain bullet. I have been very satisfied with the killing power of my 7mm Rem Mag and it makes a great long range deer/elk rig.

If a 30-06 is a minimum caliber for big bears a big cased 7 ought to do as well.

Dear Mark,

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Forget the 7MM's. As stated just not enough bullet. I think you'd be much better served with something between and including the 300WM-338 Ultra.

Mark

Before all these wonder magnums, how were big bears felled? I used to hunt deer with a dude who only used his 8MM Mauser for really big critters!

There is no doubt in my mind that a 175 grain A-Frame at 3000 FPS out of a 7MM Rem Mag will out-penetrate a 200 grain A-Frame at 2800 FPS out of a .300 Win Mag!!!

Next time you're in the Reno area, check out the old sporting goods store off S. Virginia north of Sportsman Warehouse. You'll see a damn huge polar bear that was felled with a Browning in 7MM Rem Mag!

I like talkin' guns as much as the next guy, but fact is most calibers are more than good enough for North American big game. I have talked with more than one fella in Wyoming who hunts everything with a .308 Win! My mountain rifle is in .308 Win. I was gonna get a .243 Win, but since I hunt in Wyoming where I might run into griz, I wanted an appropriate caliber.

Why did I choose a .308 Win? Well, I saw a training film about the power of a .308 Win. It was made for cops in officer survival courses. Watching a .308 shoot through-and-through the front end of a car, including an engine block, with enough energy to penetrate protective armor convinced me that a stoutly constructed 200 grain bullet will shoot through-and-through any critter in North America! Oh yeah, the .308 Win will also shoot through-and-through a cement-reinforced cinder block wall. Why anyone needs more power than that is beyond me. And BTW, I do have a .338 Win Mag, but I have never hunted with it!


Happy New Year,

Tom

I see this is a personal choice that has to be made by each hunter. My personal feeling is "ALWAYS carry the LARGEST caliber gun that you can shoot competently!" I don't know how you feel but I don't feel like being dessert...... When I go to an area where large brown fuzzy bears are part of what’s there. I'm taking my .378 Weatherby and 300 Gr. Nosler partitions. You want to take less no problem. People have killed large bears with a 30-30 and less. But I value my hide a little more than some of those folks.

Jay,

If I lived in Alaska and hunted coastal grizzlies a lot, I'd get either a Marlin stainless in .45/70 & use magnum loads in it or I'd get a .458 Win Mag. Either way, I'd keep barrel length to no more than 22". If I used a .458 Win Mag, I'd load it to about .45/70 velocities.

But if it wera a once-in-a-lifetime deal, I'd use any big game rifle I now own except for my .270 Win.


Happy New Year,

Tom

Wouldn´t the 9.3x62 be sufficient? I have no experience hunting of hunting bears -or Alaska- but I think that a premium bullet in 286gr would be sufficient for any NA animal.

cewe,

I should think it would!


Happy New Year,

Tom

I vote for the .338 Win. mag. i would us the federal high energy loads for brown bear

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Wouldn´t the 9.3x62 be sufficient? I have no experience hunting of hunting bears -or Alaska- but I think that a premium bullet in 286gr would be sufficient for any NA animal.

It certainly would be sufficient, but you're going to have a hard time finding ammo, etc. for it in AK. It's not exactly a well known caliber here.

This is really a very simple question.
A 300 mag or a 338 win etc or something similar
will have a flat enough trajectory and enough energy for any animal in North America at reasonable hunting ranges.
It will work fine on an antelope, or whitetail, it will also work fine on a moose or a big bad brown bear.

The 300's and 338's are not that hard to shoot.

My one gun for everything is simple, a TCR with multiple barrels. I have 22-250, .243, 7MM Mag, 30-06, .35 Whelen, .338 Win Mag, and 3 1/2" 12Ga.

Hi Dr. I really think that a 338 RUM shooting 300gr Round nose bullet at 2700 fps would kill anything in N.A.

I think the '06 will do almost anything that needs doing in North America, but to play it safe, I would recommend the 300 Win Mag

I guided for big bears for sometime, my son still does. Neither of us much cared what the client brought/brings from 30-06 up as long as they could shoot it accurately.
Should things turn as sour as green apples that is why they hired me to begin with. i've carried a few different calibers with factory ammo and reloads. Such as the 30-06,a 375 H&H, and a 458 WM the few times I needed to do some dicey work with any of them they all worked. In the thickest bush nothing beats 12 ga coach guns with slugs!

It seems the common issue is accurate shooting. In reality we all make occasional poor shots. Sometimes it is a quartering shot that only catches part of one lung. Believe me a big animal can go a long way in that situation. The obvious answer to this question is the gun that can handle the worst extreme on the top end which would be the big bears, moose and elk. I made a good shot a few years back on a brown bear. Typically heartshot it ran about 150 yards into the thickest nearly impenetrable rain forest I have ever seen. I was carrying a 375 as we looked slowly for 2 1/2 hours to cover that distance. My guide was feet away but there were many places where we could not have quickly covered each other. We found my bear by smelling him first not seeing him first. That's close. For the bear of Alaska's coastal areas I would only feel comfortable with a 375 short barreled gun. I guess if I could only have one, that would be it and make due on the smaller animals that don't bite back. I tip my cap to the guides of Alaska for the dangerous follow up they do on a regular basis. If I had to do that frequently, I'm afraid Jack Daniels and I would become too acquainted with each other.

quote:

Originally posted by dakor:
Well I don't know how anyone can say a 30/06 can kill any better then a 7mm STW or RUM?

Two words: Frontal area! It makes a bigger damn hole.

When I do make it to Alaska I can honestly say that I will be carrying my 338. I don't care if I'm hunting field mice. Why? Because they have bear up there that can eat people. If some bear is heading my way intent on rearrainging vital parts of my anatomy I want to be holding my 338 loaded with some heavy premium bullets like a 250gr Partition. If you want to try it with a 7mm hey, it's your hide but not me buddy!

hunterbug

+1 well said, nothing like big bullets making big holes.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom1911:
Jay,

If I lived in Alaska and hunted coastal grizzlies a lot, I'd get either a Marlin stainless in .45/70 & use magnum loads in it or I'd get a .458 Win Mag. Either way, I'd keep barrel length to no more than 22". If I used a .458 Win Mag, I'd load it to about .45/70 velocities.

But if it wera a once-in-a-lifetime deal, I'd use any big game rifle I now own except for my .270 Win.


Happy New Year,

Tom

Tom: There is nothing wrong with a .45/70 for hunting bears at "bear hunting ranges." The only problem is that a .45/70 is somewhat limited as a all around gun in Alaska, since there are times when longer shots must be taken. Most shots on moose are probably taken within 200 yards, and this should not be a problem with the .45/70, but sometimes (at least in my case) shots on moose are taken from 200 to 300 yards. Caribou hunters may take longer shots sometimes, but not always.

My idea of an all around gun for Alaska is what most Alaska hunters use: When it comes to bears and maybe bison they use .300's and .338's (Winchester Magnum), and the .30-06 for the rest. The .375 H&H should be as perfect as the .338WM for an "all around" gun, but it's not as popular, maybe because most .375's are a little heavy (I don't really know why).

Now, there is a wildcat that Federal should make official, and one that would be an all around cartridge anywhere. It combines the .338WM and the .375 H&H. It's a little lighter than a .375 H&H rifle, and generates similar ballistics. This wildcat is the .375 Taylor, and in my view would be much more popular with BIG game hunters than most "short and fat" cartridges now produced.

(340 Wtby) I shot a 9' 3" Coastal near Yakatat a few years back with a 225 grain barnes and a compressed load. The shot was 250 yards on an open beach. I hit the bear in the shoulder clipping the top of the heart and exiting through the other shoulder lodging in the skin. He ran another 50 yards and died with his nose in the sand. The 340 is also a great moose and elk rifle with many loading and bullet data avaliable.

Answering your original question....

While I've got bigger and I've got smaller...

I'd opt for the 375 H&H, a heart warming cartridge, to handle all NA game from small game (a bit overkill) to large game (just right).

For the big costal bears the 375 HH or 416 Rem are very popular.....for me I carry a old FN in 338 Win with 225 TSX and 250 Nosler Part. for costal hunting.

The 458 Win with the 350 Barnes X bullet is also a real good choice.

I have a small Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 that I handload for using a 350 Hardcast FNGC at 2000 FPS with RL 7 for a second gun.

Anyone familiar with the .358 STA? 250 grainers at 3000 fps, 275's at 2800, 300's at 2700, this baby generates more ft/lbs, has a greater SD, nearly the same frontal area, and shoots far flatter than a .375 H&H. From long shots to in your face this sounds like quite a round to me. I'm impressed enough that I'm having a shot-out .300 Jarrett (same case) rebored to .358 to take to AK.

Not anything in 7mm for sure, .338 min for all species if thats what you want (I like using more than one weapon), from .338.06 to all the other configurations. You have to have the size to bust them down and you can also load any .338 to 180 gr if you want. my 3 cents worth...

John

Cobrad ----- I like your thinking. I shoot two STA's and they are awesome indeed. Good luck on your project. The .358 STA was designed by Layne Simpson and Kenny Jarrett as the ideal Brown Bear round, in my opinion they hit the nail on the head. Faster and flatter than the .375 H&H, that comes in handy when hunting other Alaskan species, yet more energy and very near the same frontal area. Good shooting.

I guess if we listen to all these opinions and distill them down to what gives both velocity and range plus stopping power then a Barrett 50 BMG should be the ultimate all around rifle. However, not being as tough as I once was, I think I'll stick to my 30-06 and 200 partitions.

I can't believe that this thread is still alive

No 7mm for Brown Bear......the least I suggest is the 338 Win Mag. The 375 HH and the 416 Rem are real popular here.

If you two do hunt brown bear with your piddly 7mm's, can I get the particulars before you leave and buy some life insurance (with the bear, eaten by) clause?
As soon as the African Buffalo is finished I start saving for the BB. I expect to take the same old 458Lott.

regards,

Rich

Easy <>< 375 H&H. Load up and load down..
I personally use a 416 Remington for the big stuff...And a 338 for everything else,used a 375 for many years befor moving up to the 416,,,, my $.02..Maddog

*** ENDLESS THREAD ***

The reason this Thread is so interesting and so long , -- is because a weapon is , instinctively , ( from millions of years of scientifically known evolution , -- and History , -- and Cultural Anthropology ) ; -- a very important item .

It's the way Man , survived and prevailed as a species ; against all manner of superior Predators , and against his own kind .

I'ts the second most important thing in his existence , after his superior Brain .

So any discussion on hunting , survival , or any other subject that entails any degree of danger , -- cuts immediately to the aspect of ultimate survival .

Read carefully between the lines on most posts that concern Brown Bear , or Dangerous Game ; and you'll find a hell of a focus on , ( what Massad Ayoub calls ) -- The Gravest Extreme .

This is entirely natural , and instinctive .
It's in our instincts and minds , as surely as acquiring food , sex , and our Egos .

That's why this thread , and other similars , capture our imaginations .

It's that fundamental .

Again , according to my humble research , I'll stick with the .416 as an all around Hunter Cartridge to include Brown Bear ; --- but it's the Brown-Bear-Attack possibility , that's really pulling the strings psychologically .

For close-in , ( which the highest percent of Brown Bear attacks are ) , A short barreled semi-auto 12 Ga. - 3 " , with Breneke slugs ,
( or maybe a double ought in the spout ); is probably best , -- IF , the action is of the most reliable , military tested , variety . -- You can group with these things at 3 rounds per second !

The .375 H&H is a valid compromize . -- I have a Mod. 70 , W/ 19 " Bbl , and Mag-Na-Port , and a Limb-Saver Pad . -- It ain't bad at all, on the recoil side .

As I get older , and more recoil sensative , -- the .375 will probably become my rifle to fit this thread ; -- but , then , it ain't, " all-around " , in the sense of open country / long range shooting .

I agree with the poster , ( way above ) , that said you're not too wise to try to stretch any one rifle to fit the confines of this thresd title .

( All of the above , IMHO , -- and according to my personal experience ) .

--------- MMCOUGAR .

Hi
What about 9,3x62? it has good trajectory with 230-250 grain bullets ang good penetration with 285 grain bullets.
yes

I love my 7mmRemMag but would NOT consider using it in AK even sheep hunting. When sheep hunting you run into bears especially after a kill...they smell blood and you and 2 plus 2 equals dinner. I will NOT validate your opinion. There is a good reason that Winchester called the 338 WinMag the Alaskan and why it came with a 25inch barrel. It will do the job. Today, the 375 H&H is what I'd choose for a bear gun...get it in staniless, either Win or Remintons new XCR and have it black T-Coated for rust. Have you ever stood in front of a 9 foot brown bear and discovered that his forearms are bigger than you leg muslces? I have. It used to be you could go into Jonas Brothers in anchorage and see for yourself. Now Mountain Veiw Sports is as close as you'll get on Old Spenard road in Anchorage. These bears are impressive. One gents comments about a 416 RemMag for up close or in the tent use is exactltly right. If you can't handle a 375 or a 416 then do NOT go!

All the years I guided both sheep and grizzly hunters in the Chugach, Talkeetna and Brooks ranges I never ran across a grizzly that I would have been hesitant to shoot with a .243 Win. with quality bullets. I'm not saying it is what I would choose or recommend but have no doubt I would have been 100% safe from any grizzly in open country.
The rifle I did choose to use, and still would today, is the 30-06 with 200 Nosler partitions.
For backing up clients and tracking wounded big Brown Bears my rifle of choice is a short barreled 458 Win but when hunting on my own I have no qualms about still using my 30-06.
THE MAJORITY OF WOUNDED BEARS ARE CAUSED BY HUNTERS USING A RIFLE THEY ARE AFRAID OF AND CAN NOT SHOOT WELL RATHER THAN NOT ENOUGH.

Phil,
didnt you get the memo that the bears up here cannot be killed by anything smaller than 40cal?

Seriously, if you can shoot the 375 and up comfortably, than by all means. they are outstanding choices.

Nothing wrong with the 30's. this spring I'm gonna use my new 300wsm on blacks and griz. Not quite coastal bears but thats for this fall.

I just went through sort of the same ordeal; making a choice for the perfect all in one rifle. Then it occurred to me that I wasn't really interested in owning only one rifle...being a gun nut at heart, I realized that I'd end up with more rifles for all the hoped for hunts and that would really suit my psyche better. So, I'm dreaming of more hunts and buying lots of rifles to match them. All kidding aside (and the above isn't really far off the mark to tell the truth) I did just select a 300 Winchester Mag for my 2007 Alaska Caribou hunt. I plan to hunt with 200 Grain A-Frame bullets just in case I run into any aggressive Browns. Not the perfect AK Caliber, but I like it and should do the job if necessary.

Good luck with your selection

cheetah;

no .300 w.m. is not the perfect choice , but what is?

you can hunt most of the game in ak. with that and the 200 gr. a frame is an excellent choice.

with 2 guns, you can hunt all of the game in ak.
better to have 2 guns that you shoot well, than a gun cabinet full of guns that hardly get shot. try to get the same brand and model for both guns. familiarity breeds efficiency.

i use .300 w.m. and .340 wthby with n.p.. the heavier gun just for moose and b.b.. the .300 is great for everything else.

good luck.

Because this was started about one gun for NA and big bears. I don't feel there is ONE gun/caliber that would fit everything. This is one case where your choice would be either too big, or too small. This is one of those prime examples where two guns are called for.

I'd never have bought the 7mmag IF I'd known it was so close to matching '06 in ballistic's. IF I'd known how he felt and known any better when buying this gun I'd have gotten a .338 anyway. That's what Dad asked when I got home. "Why didn't you get a .338????" "because I didn't know any better at that time".

Because I much prefer the safeties on 1917 Enfields. This is the gun I build and hunt with. I have three of them. '06, 300win, and a junker awaiting funding and decision on what caliber. This is as near to One gun as I want. Build a set on the same action, that way I've got "the same gun familiarity".
--------------------------
Mighty interesting thread.

One thing I haven't seen in it though.

Is what would YOUR choice be IF you knew for sure you'd be charged/attacked by a BB???

Personally, I'd go the other direction and avoid the situation.

BUT: IF I was hunting up there in country where they were known to be. I'd sure not be alone, and I'd have a .338, .375, or .416 PLUS a big bore revolver on my hip. Nothing less than .44mag, and maybe even a .454 etc.

I'd also carry an extra pair or two of clean shorts in my backpack for just in case. As I know damned well even IF I won the attack, I'd sure be needing them as long as I'd survive it!

George

Since this did say all of N.A., including the bears, my choice would be the 375 H&H. While some folks would say that it is too big for anything in N.A., except the Big Bears, I am a firm believer in being overgunned, than undergunned.As I have heaard before, it is hell showing up for a gunfight with just a pocketknife.

I keep hearing how the 45/70 does not work well for Alaska hunting. It seems that the 45/70 just can't compete at the ranges needed for killing caribou, moose, etc (200 + yards). I beg to differ. I have been known to take caribou to 300 yards with my Sharps and my best caribou to date was taken with my 1895 Marlin at 150 yards. Both died quickly and you could eat right up to the bullet hole. I have never felt disadvangated because of my choice in rifles or calibers. It is also much more fun to belly crawl to close ranges than just shooting them at 300 + yards with an 06 or 338. One of my hunting partners harvests all of his animals annually with a 54 caliber muzzle loader. Not one of the new fangled inlines, but a real by God muzzle loader and he shoots more animals than anyone I know. Jim