Than the other brown bears found in the costal regions of Alaska, especially the peninsula areas? I got in a heated discussion over cartridge selection for browns, and he stated that Kodiak Island bears were far bigger than any found on the mainland. I linked him to some pictures that were posted on this forum from 458Win’s web site and asked them how they compared and here is the response I got:

quote:

Most of the guides that I personally know (not found on the internet, I know these guys) here in Kodiak require that their clients bring at minimum a .300 win mag, a .338 win mag or 375 h&h is preferred. These same guides carry either 375h&h or 416 rigby's as back up guns.

Kodiak Brown Bears are exclusive to Kodiak Island, they do not exist anywhere else. They are the largest carnivore on earth. A bigger bear was killed on the mainland... Big deal, there's always going to be exceptions to every rule. However, I would trust AKADF&G on the subject a lot more than some armchair 'expert' in CO who found a guide's website...

We were discussing the merits of a .30-06 vs .308 for an elk rifle when he chimed in most Kodiak island bear guides required a .300 Win Mag as a minimum. Not knowing better than to keep my mouth shut because I didn't see how it related to elk. I asked him how much difference he thought 200 ft-lbs of energy the .300 Win had over the .30-06 HE factory 180 grain loads was going to make in stopping a "pissed off" brown bear?

I'm all for guides setting a caliber/cartridge restriction especially when their saftey as well as the hunters is concerned when hunting dangerous game. So I don't need to debate the cartridge issue again. Just want to know from the guys who live there about the bears and their size.

Thanks!

I've lived in Southeast for 37 years now.

Never seen anything over 9 feet.

Seen tracks of one that may have gone 10 foot.

Genetics and food supply.

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:
I've lived in Southeast for 37 years now.

Never seen anything over 9 feet.

Seen tracks of one that may have gone 10 foot.

Genetics and food supply.

Thanks, love S.E. AK beautiful country you live in. I was lucky enough to take a decent black bear around Petersburg in 07. Hope to be back in a couple of years to try for another.

9 feet seems pretty big to me and anything over 10 feet I think would be exceptional.

Phil Shoemaker wrote to me short time ago:

"There are big bears on both Kodiak and the peninsula. According to the AK F&G the largest bodied bears are found on the peninsula - by a slight amount - while the largest bears on Kodiak can have slightly wider skulls."

He also wrote, that his scull average was at least as good - and probably better - than the very best outfitter on Kodiak..

So I would say there is not much difference between bears on Kodiak compared to the bears on Alaska Peninsula..

There are big bears on Kodiak, big bears in SE Alaska and big bears in Kamchakta. The exceptional bears are could come from anywhere, but the average is probably bigger on Kodiak or Afognak.

Just my research of the Boone and Crockett club records and the Safari club records.

Living to an advanced age and having plenty of salmon are obviously tied into location, and may be of more importance than minor genetic differences.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
There are big bears on Kodiak, big bears in SE Alaska and big bears in Kamchakta.

Only about a half-dozen SE bears have ever made B&C all-time book score of 28".

Guess it all depends on what you call "big." Skull or body/hide size. Either way, SE doesn't come close to comparing with Kodiak or the AK Pen.

i'm gonna go out on a limb and say body wise they are pretty much the same bear. they take a couple hundred bears off the pen each season and only about 170 off kodiak each year, so figure in about three times as many bears off the AK pen they get just as many big ones as kodiak does.
i've killed some hogs on kodiak, and seen some hogs on the pen...i don't think you could ever say with any certainty that one place is bigger than the other..mute point.

READ AGAIN PHIL SHOEMAKER'S QUOTE ABOVE.....and believe it. Prob biggest AK bear ever taken was by Bob Reeves at Cold Bay - estimates from old photos of two men holding up green hide run approx 14' sq.!!!

Somewhere in my "stuff" I recently moved, I have a sheet of paper, from a well known Alaskan brown bear guide, that tells the number of rounds it took from each calibre used by all of his hunters from the last several years.

Wish I knew exactly where it was as its infromation is a little suprising.

What is not listed, and what is important to me is, what bullets did they use and where did they hit the bear.

However it does show that calibre is not that big of a factor, as some of the less powerful calibres show up better, than some of the big bores.

Again some essential info IMHO is missing.

The time I hunted brown bear I took my 450/400 double [mainly because I liked it], and my 300 Win Mag Blaser R 93 in 300 Win Mag.

When I hunted interior Grizz I tool the 300 Mag.

I would not hesitate to hunt brown bear with a 308 [proper bullets] if on a dare,. but I think everything considered the best brown bear cartridges are in the 35 Whelen, 9,3x62, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H or even bigger if you know your shots will be close.

On Interior Grizz if longer shots are the norm a 7mm Mag with 175gr bullets, a 300 Win Mag or a 338, 340 WBY with 210 Nosler Partitions, would be my choice. A 375 H&H with the roper 270 or 300gr bullet would work as well.

BUT the bigger guns are ONLY better if you can shoot them well.

A premium bullet form a 308 in the chest is better than a 458 in the rear.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
Than the other brown bears found in the costal regions of Alaska, especially the peninsula areas? I got in a heated discussion over cartridge selection for browns, and he stated that Kodiak Island bears were far bigger than any found on the mainland. I linked him to some pictures that were posted on this forum from 458Win’s web site and asked them how they compared and here is the response I got:

quote:

Most of the guides that I personally know (not found on the internet, I know these guys) here in Kodiak require that their clients bring at minimum a .300 win mag, a .338 win mag or 375 h&h is preferred. These same guides carry either 375h&h or 416 rigby's as back up guns.

Kodiak Brown Bears are exclusive to Kodiak Island, they do not exist anywhere else. They are the largest carnivore on earth. A bigger bear was killed on the mainland... Big deal, there's always going to be exceptions to every rule. However, I would trust AKADF&G on the subject a lot more than some armchair 'expert' in CO who found a guide's website...

We were discussing the merits of a .30-06 vs .308 for an elk rifle when he chimed in most Kodiak island bear guides required a .300 Win Mag as a minimum. Not knowing better than to keep my mouth shut because I didn't see how it related to elk. I asked him how much difference he thought 200 ft-lbs of energy the .300 Win had over the .30-06 HE factory 180 grain loads was going to make in stopping a "pissed off" brown bear?

I'm all for guides setting a caliber/cartridge restriction especially when their saftey as well as the hunters is concerned when hunting dangerous game. So I don't need to debate the cartridge issue again. Just want to know from the guys who live there about the bears and their size.

Thanks!

There is no game in Alaska. Stay home

I still have one of P&T's equipment lists and they claim that the 30-06 is plenty for Kodiak bears.
Since the world record Kodiak was killed with one I suppose they might even be correct.
From my experience it still is - and with today's super premium bullets it is better than ever.

Here are some stats from the Alaska F&G average skull sizes males only
fifteen year average Kodiak 24.5
Southeast last year ABC islands 23.4
Mainland southeast unit 1 22.8 several years old
unit 5 Yakutat area on up 23.5
Couldn't find the peninsula but found the stats once and about the same as Kodiak. If you take a bear with a skull size in Alaska of over 24.5 inches you have a bigger than average bear anywhere in the state. My expirience a bear that size is about eight and a half foot squired maybe a little less but most of use can strech him to a nine footer.

Hello One and All,

Lived in AK for about 27 years now. Have fly fished (and sometimes hunted as well) from Dutch Harbor to Afognak, Nome to Prince of Wales Island. Because I very much enjoy fly fishing for salmon, I've encountered many bears along various streams and estuaries, a few black but many grizzly (AKA "brown" bears). I get the impression that black bears are just a furry "land salmon" in the grizzly's opinion.

The two largest grizzly I've seen were one each in Katmai Park (Kulik Creek) and Kodiak island (Chief Cove). Both were boars and their bellies seemed to nearly drag on the ground (hard to exactly tell in the low weeds and such). I don't pretend to know what size they were in feet and inches and I do not know which one would have been larger. They both were sporting scars from fighting. Impressive ice age monsters.

Suffice it to say that after seeing probably 150 or so grizzly up close, I know a large one when I see one. I realise my sighting of only two exceptional bears is not proof of anything but at least there've been at least one each very large ones on both Kodiak and the Mainland respectively.

I'm admittedly too cheap to have a rug made (I'd rather spend that money on another rifle, English fly reel or toward one more outdoor adventure). Therefore I'm not a proper person to ask which cartridge is good for bears. However, several of my friends have shot a number of grizzly and most of them use the .375 H&H with bonded core 300 grain JSP bullets and low powered scopes.

Following these fellow's suggestions, for my fall salmon trips I generally carry a 22 inch barreled .375 with generous ("Ghost Ring") peep sight and "Sour Dough" heavy blade front. Having been very close to, as I mentioned, roughly 150 grizzly in my life so far, said .375 has been a companion to me. I take comfort in the cartridge's 100 year old reputation when I'm flopping about in bear habitat. My eyes are aging and I'll have to scope it soon enough but it will be a low power scope in low rings for sure.

Regarding peewee cartridges for bear, surely they've been sacked many times in history with a .22 LR into the ear hole. Likewise many have been taken with a single body shot from such shells as the .22 Savage Hi-Power (ballistically almost identical to a recent military loading of the 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem with 69 grain projectile), as well as the old .303 Savage (ballistically about like a .30-30 with 180 grain hand load), not to mention the .30-30 itself, the .25-35 Winchester and the then new (1930s) S&W .357 Magnum revolver. There have been others used successfully on bears before and after these cartridges needless to say.

Shooting a largish animal with a smallish cartridge proves nothing, at least nothing to me any way. Drenching a bear with gasoline and lighting him on fire would probably do the trick, as likely would feeding him a poison carrot. How about dropping one from a crane into a shark tank? If you dig small things for large game, perhaps you could just have pirhanas in the tank. Circus stunts, including small cartridges for large game, do not appeal to me. If I were ever to go bear hunting, I'd prefer to use enough gun. I'll admit it'd be primarily out of self preservation but at least in part it'd be out of respect for the animal. I'd want it that way if someone were gunning for me.

Again, I've never shot a bear and therefore my opinion is only my opinion. It's based on the advice of others and also on having been too dern close to many a bear. It's not the bloomin Gospel. So, don't everyone punch me in the nose all at once.
Ard.

I've lived in SE for 26 years now and have had jobs that put me in bear country for several months each year. I've seen hundreds of brown bears up close and personal, but I have to qualify that by saying I haven't done much actual looking for big bears as Mr. Shoemaker has. The biggest bear by far was a bear I saw on Kodiak, which I'm confident was the same book bear that was killed on the Buskin River (near Kodiak) a few years ago. I first saw that bear from a distance of about 25 feet and it was the most impressive animal I have ever seen. I was not well armed with my 6 wt Sage, but I really didn't feel threatened by that bear at all. I backed off to a respectful distance and he just got up and slowly made his way upstream.

A couple of things about brown bears that I've found interesting are:

I read a study that said SE island bears differ genetically from other bears in the State. They actually concluded that SE island bears were more closely related to polar bears than to other Alaska brown bears.

I'm just guaging by eye, but it seems to me that mature bears I have seen on Kodiak have heads that are out of proportion to their body size.

I've shot 2 brown bear (Peninsula and Cordova-area) personally and I've been there when at least a dozen other's were shot and all I can say is even the "medium-size" look big if all you're used to are black bear and the really big ones look like VW bugs with fur --- and none of them are easy to roll over and skin especially if they fell in 12" of water.

My first hunt was with a 30/06 and I declined the only shot I had because of the poor angle. The 2 sucessful hunts were with a .350 RemMag and a .338 WinMag. I used to "pay" for my hunting by being a camp "mule" -- helped with the packing, helped with the cooking, and anything else needed to allow the guides and hunters max time in the field and several times I was the camp guard. When I helped out in camp I carried a .375 H&H with the barrel cut down to 20" --- easy to carry, deadly on anything you shot with it and loud.

One other hint for an Alaskan hunt --- if you have the choice of packing out mear or the antlers, take the meat as antlers are a real bitch to carry as it's hard to keep your balance and they catch on every brach within 50' of your patth.

Some of the comments here seem to have gotten off of the origonal question.
As far as minimum cal for big bears I'll let that one go we've worn that topic out here.

I have done a lot of guideing and personal hunting both on the AK penn and Kodiak. For all practicle purposes there is no differance between the bears on Kodiak and the AK penn. I have read that many biolagist belive that the bears on Kodiak have a genetic trait giving them a wider zygomatic arc and in turn a larger skull measurement. I assume this to be true and may be the reason that many of the top bears in the Boone and Crockett book came from Kodiak.

You must keep a few other things in mind also when useing the record books as a comparison for the size of these bears.

Kodiak island has been hunted for bears for a long time now. Hunters were traveling to Kodiak in greater numbers when the AK penn was just begining to develope guided sport hunting. Kodiak has had more time to put more big bears in the record book.

As far as the size of the body is concerned a big bear is a big bear. If you have an unrealistic desire for one of those 10 foot bears your chances are just as good on the penn as on Kodiak.

The largest bear I've ever taken ( as far as skin measurement) was 10'7" and came from near lake Iliamna. That bear had a pin head that measured just over 26"

A friend of mine had a hunter take a bear in the same region that was 9&1/2 feet that had 28&13/16th skull

Thanks guys, you all kind of confirmed my suspisions. While Kokiak may have a better average over the years, big bears are where you find them.

I have never heard of the "kodiak brown bear" as a genetic subset of the brown bears. Some have subdevided Ursus arctos but I haven't heard of any studies to show genetic differences between the bears on the Kodiak Islands and the main lands.

Perhaps your friend is confused or not clear on what he defines as a mainland bear. If you're talking interior grizzly, then yes they tend to be a fair bit smaller than their coastal cousins. But if you're talking coastal brown bear vs. Kodiak brown, they are for all intents and purposes the same critters and the same size.

As to minial caliber, with modern bullets you can kill the biggest bear plenty dead with arbitrarily a 6.5mm on up. 30 cal is a prudent minimum. Credible guides will prefer their clients have a gun they shoot accurately, and that they shoot it accurately in a field. Too many clients come up with shiny new 338's, shoot the bear in the paunch, and the guide places finishing shot(s) as required.

age old argument about brown bears and how they differ. Rattap is correct Southeast Browns DNA is closer to the polar bears than to other Brown bears in the state. I believe this study was done five or six years ago.I personally use a 375 for guiding and like to see a gun as large as a 338 mag for clients that being said I have seen people kill them with a 7 mm mag. When I was in my twenties will deer hunting my partner shot a bear with his 30-06 from a distant and we never recovered it . We learned a lesson about bears will chasing that one though thick brush. Both of us are now guiding this was 1972 I believe.

There are salmon streams in Alaska that have late runs of fish well into late december. Those extra weeks or months of protein over the bears lifespan will produce huge bears whether in kodiak, the peninsula, or southeast ak.

The DNA study only showed how long some populations have been isolated by island geography -Biologically (meaning that they all can interbreed successfully) there are no differences between the bears on Kodiak, the Peninsula, the interior or SE AK.

Size wise the largest bears are the best fed bears and the open grass flats on Kodiak and the peninsula grow the largest bears since they begin feeding non-stop on protein rich grass as soon as the emerge in the spring and move on to an unlimited supply of Salmon until they den in Nov or Dec.

F&G records list the largest bear skull and averages in every GMU and If you look at the biological data you will see that the peninsula tends to grow slightly larger, heavier bears with slightly longer skulls, while the zygomatic arches on the skulls of bears on Kodiak sometimes grow a bit wider - which can give them the edge when measuring for record books.

The DNA had showed that bears in the Kodiak chain had been seperated since the last ice age.

As for them being closer related to polar bears or "evolving" from a group of polar bears the current closest thoughts are these;

1. As polar bears evolved from an isolated group of brown bears in Arctic in Siberia, it is possible that the brown bears in Kodiak are related to the group of bears that the original polar bears evolved from.

2. Since the bears of kodiak have been locked in for at least one ice age, it is possible that the bears of the mainland have an influance of bear DNA not related to the group on the Kodiak rocks.

3. Since their DNA shows and influance of similar blood to the polar bear it is possible that some polar bears went ashore in Kodiak through out the ages and interbred with the local guys. Actually this probably happened regardless of weather the other two are true or not.

wasn't Kodiak was a study by scientists Shields & Talbot for the Artic science Jourals. They did DNA test of 200 bears on the ABC islands here is a quote "there is a group of bears on the Islands of Southeast Alaska. (ABC Islands)These bears are decidedly different genetically from any other bears worldwide. there is another aspect about the ABC bears population which is quite starting and that is the sister group ,if you will of the ABC bears is not another population of brown bears but is a population of polar bears. Polar bears world wide are the closest relativesto these ABC bears. got this off the internet southeast Brown bear DNA

AND THAT MEANS?

And I have just booked a hunt with Phil Shoemaker in fall 2011. Boy I am looking forward to it..

quote:

They are the largest carnivore on earth.

He's got that part wrong. They are not the largest carnivore on earth, the Polar bear is. Polar bears are the largest bears, larger than 'Kodiaks' and are true carnivores, except when they are rummaging in the dumpsters in Prudhoe.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
AND THAT MEANS?

It probably means there were 2 distinct migration of Bear ... the first one some turned left and turned / stayed White and some went strait down the coastline and got isolated on the ABC Island and turned or remained Brown.

Then like many years later along came another migration (with a different common ancestor) that eventually populated the coastal and mainland areas all the way down to the lower 48. But they couldn't swim out to the ABC's as the water barrier is / was to far across. The coastal Bear got big similar to their ABC Island cousins. The inland plains Bear stayed or became a little smaller.

And in the past the Kodiak bear were considered a different subspecies ... in fact there were umpteen subspecies just in Alaska. Then they were all lumped back into basically the two there are today. Which are kinda now considered really just one ... Ursus Arctos.

For some reason the Kodiak and part of the Pen Bears have a jug head ... similar to the Black Bear on Prince of Wales Island & Kiui ... those Blacks are 1 to 1 1/4 inches larger in skulls than other Blacks of the same age class. Same body size as coastal Blacks anywhere ... just jug heads !!!!

Johnnie Laird .. http://www.muskegexcursions.com and I have a good primetime Prince of Wales hunt opening for 1 hunter if anyone is interested in a 'jug head' Black Bear.

Muskeg, sounds good to me I would only change a few things. I think the isolation was due more to ice than water.Lynn Canal Chathom Strait and Clarance were all huge glaciers and Southeast was covered with ice for thousand of years leaving Browns to their own little ecosytem. As for P.O.W I think the Blacks have more body size also. Before I hunted POW I hunted Kuiu and Kupreanof and did not see as big a bear there.Prince of Wales does have some big blacks.

quote:

Originally posted by bear guide:
wasn't Kodiak was a study by scientists Shields & Talbot for the Artic science Jourals. They did DNA test of 200 bears on the ABC islands here is a quote "there is a group of bears on the Islands of Southeast Alaska. (ABC Islands)These bears are decidedly different genetically from any other bears worldwide. there is another aspect about the ABC bears population which is quite starting and that is the sister group ,if you will of the ABC bears is not another population of brown bears but is a population of polar bears. Polar bears world wide are the closest relativesto these ABC bears. got this off the internet southeast Brown bear DNA

quote:

AND THAT MEANS?

Gets interestinger and interestinger, don't it.

So, those ABC bears are either another bear species alltogether or maybe they are polar bears - that are not endangered by global warming.

Do you want to split them or lump them for B&C?

Biologically it most likely means that the bears on the ABC islands became an isolated species at a later date than the brown/grizzly bears in the rest of the state.

AKJim, since polar bears are considered "marine mammals"- rather than terrestrial animals - most folks still say the Browns are the largest carnivores . But you are correct that the very largest Polar bears do weigh more that Brown bears and they certainly are carnivores.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The DNA study only showed how long some populations have been isolated by island geography -Biologically (meaning that they all can interbreed successfully) there are no differences between the bears on Kodiak, the Peninsula, the interior or SE AK.

Size wise the largest bears are the best fed bears and the open grass flats on Kodiak and the peninsula grow the largest bears since they begin feeding non-stop on protein rich grass as soon as the emerge in the spring and move on to an unlimited supply of Salmon until they den in Nov or Dec.

F&G records list the largest bear skull and averages in every GMU and If you look at the biological data you will see that the peninsula tends to grow slightly larger, heavier bears with slightly longer skulls, while the zygomatic arches on the skulls of bears on Kodiak sometimes grow a bit wider - which can give them the edge when measuring for record books.

...

Phil pretty well got it pegged . However I don,t think the actual body size of the Peninsula on the whole is much bigger than Southeast brown bears .....Most of the half decent fish criks have alot more fish than the bears can eat , and the grass is just as green , But with fewer open seasons the peninsula probably provides the ability for bears to mature a bit more ......... I don,t think southeast bears are any different species , the Enviro,s have been trying to pull that one for a long time......., since bears think nothing of swimming , who can believe the bears on Admirality are different than the bears in Hobart Bay , Bradfield Canal or up the Unik River ............... Kodiak bears have great big fat heads , to me they almost look deformed .........The head of a big bear on Chichagof Is , doesn,t look small , trust me .. But a Southeast bear won,t make the book , regardless of how big the body is ...It,s just genetics not species ...

quote:

Originally posted by Ratltrap:
I've lived in SE for 26 years now and have had jobs that put me in bear country for several months each year. I've seen hundreds of brown bears up close and personal, but I have to qualify that by saying I haven't done much actual looking for big bears as Mr. Shoemaker has.

A couple of things about brown bears that I've found interesting are

I'm just guaging by eye, but it seems to me that mature bears I have seen on Kodiak have heads that are out of proportion to their body size.

This is pretty impressive . a discussion about guns and bears ... and not a fight yet .... Heres hopin .... ..

I wonder if ADF&G or any one has done any studing on the age of bears taken in thru out the State , and if in one area the bears taken are younger or older on average ????????? Or perhaps age as it relates to maturity ,size ect ....Someone should do a doctoral dissertation on that ......??????????????????????

The recent DNA (of Browns) studies has nothing to do with the 'inviro's' .... as far as science is concerned (at this time) DNA don't lie.

The ABC Island Bear are different ...

They know by radio collaring Wolf and Bear here on POW and the near mainland that those animals don't swim the Clarence Straight.

There is a possible place (Zarimbo / Brushy / Shurbby) but unless the animal times it right the tide rip in Snow Pass would probably prevent that crossing. The rest of the Straights is just to far for any animals to swim. Or there would be Brown Bear on POW Island swimming from the Cleveland Peninsula.

I Guide Brown Bear on the Portland Canal. On one side of the Canal it is Grizz (by B&C rules) and the other side it is Brown (by B&C rules) ... the Bears do swim that water way from Canada to Alaska and back. And we have taken some, on the Brown side that would have made the 'book' if they were taken on the Grizz side.

Actually the ABC Island Bear come from a very ancient lineage ... that migration could be into the 100's of thousands of years. While the rest of Brown (grizz) Beardom came like within 10,000 years.

Just like I mentioned about POW Island Black Bear and Wolf. They are distinct isolated populations.

..Skeg ,, there is tons of evidence you are greatly mistaken ...I don,t have time now , but about the only warm blooded [game animal] that might be land locked , may be the Mountain goat ..

I was just discussing these theories with Doc Dave Persons who did his doctoral dissertation on POW Island Wolf. He is very knowledgeable on DNA stuff. He works for ADF&G in Ketchikan and knows well all the DNA studies that have gone on and are on going in this area on Wolf / Bear and Blacktail Deer. As well as the ABC Island Brown Bear study of a few years back.

He talks way over my head but I do get the basic drift of the conversation.

He is one of the PHD's working with Tod Brinkman who is curently working on his dissertation on POW Island Sitka Blacktail. Together (with help) they have recently come up with a method of extracting DNA from Blacktail pellet samples. Never been successfully done before.

There are also current studies going on from the cave findings on POW Island and the Queen Charlot Islands that have recently turned a few past theories upside down.

Just Google POW Island Caves ... it's interesting.

Since this article was written in 1996 they have gleaned allot more info from the 'cell nuclei DNA' work ...

older article

How can brown bears living 900 miles south of the nearest polar bear provide so much information about the origin of both species? In a paper written by Talbot, Shields and Timothy Heaton of the University of South Dakota, the authors claim polar bears could have evolved from a coastal form of brown bear in northeastern Siberia. These ancient brown bears may have migrated to Alaska about 40,000 years ago.

As time passed, the brown bear that spawned the polar bear died everywhere in Alaska but the ABC islands, which served as a refuge during the last glacial period. When the last ice age ended about 10,000 years ago, brown bears from farther south in North America slowly expanded their range to Alaska, but they neglected to swim the waters of the Inside Passage and mix with brown bears of the ABC islands. Good thing. Now we have a chance to find out whether polar bears owe their existence to brown bears.

Sorry , I stopped believing in the tooth fairy when I was a kid , and these are probably some of the same bunch who say carbon emmisions will sink Ketchikan ....

There are key words in your post ,like" may have" and "could have " Thats collegese for telling a bullshit story .......

And they probably get Federal funding for pouluting the publics senses with this BS .......How did Brown bears get on Revilla IS... I don,t think they rode the Malispina .. How did the wolves re populate Grivina Is . They didn,t walk across on the bridge to nowhere .... Ain,t been built yet ......... How did Moose get to PoW and Kupreanof Is... .. Same way brown bears go from Hobart Bay to Big Pybus bay ... They swam ....... Haven,t you ever seen a game animal swimming around in some body of salt water ...???.. What about the brown bears that wander from Etolin Is. to Wrangell Is, to the mainland ???

Yep ... you got it all figured out there Gummy ...all these scientists / biologist are all about living on "Federal funding for pouluting the publics senses with this BS"

Funny you come on and post ....

"This is pretty impressive . a discussion about guns and bears ... and not a fight yet .... Heres hopin .... popcorn .."

You spell worse than me ..... Laffen ....