Ray edited this comment in after I posted, it is worth addressing.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Wendall,
If you would post all and every part of our email conversations on this subject I would be more inclined to be civil to you. But your sneaky approaches have just gotten old and I no longer trust you. Your a snake in the grass..You only post the parts that serve your purpose to make a point in your favor, as opposed to the whole thing.

Fair enough. I asked if you wanted me to post it, I didn't post it because it was a private communication.

No problem Ray, here goes.

Ray, Would you mind telling me who the safari operator is on this Elephant hunt you posted on AR? Thanks. -- Wendell Reich

Wendell, Why, so you can give me some more shit? When will you figure out that I am not in competition with you, I am happy to let you do your job and you let me do mine. I am sorry about posting your hunter, but cutting through the BS you know that Licky sent me those pictures to show the buffalo killed on his concession and he said nothing about them being your clients, you knew that and trashed me wrongly...anytime I am stepping on your toes a simple email will prevent it, and that goes both ways. When you apologized to me on the Sheephunter deal, I accepted your apology and let it go, I would have thought that you would have done the same for me.. Anyway the outfitter is Robbie Kruger for your information.. Ray

Ray,

You are right Ray, I will let you do your job and I will do mine.

Now you can't say I didn't try.

Good day. Wendell Reich

Keep in mind, this was the first email I have had with Ray in a long while. We don't communicate much. Usually only when I offend him.

So, to try to explain some of his ramblings, here is a brief history.

The last time he emailed me was months ago. Last time he surfaced on AR he used a bunch of photos of my clients and represented them as his. I pointed out they were my clients and he hit the roof. (Apparently he still holds some anger over that). I did not even care if he used them, i just simply pointed it out.

The Sheephunter deal, was 5 years ago. As Ray was guilting Sheephunter into taking his hunt, Sheephunter contacted me and asked for a quote on an Elephant hunt. I gave it to him, and out of respect, I contacted Ray and told him that Sheephunter had contacted me. I didn't want any problems if Sheephunter booked my hunt. That was quite a sensitive situation, for anyone who remembers it.

He remembers it differently apparently. He thinks I tried to steal Sheephunter away from him and then apologized to him over the deal. Not exactly how it happened.

Why he brings these up in an email where I simply ask "who is the safari operator is this hunt" is beyond me.

Maybe some of you could 'splain it to me.

Ray and Wendell:

I consider you both good men and my friends. I would (and have with Ray and certainly will with Wendell) trust(ed) ya'll to get me hooked up with great hunts.

Most of us who know you both probably feel the same and are kind of scratching our heads in wonder why the thread has progressed this far. But, my friends, there are lots of folks who will never understand all the issues here and why there is friction (much less the comments by others who may have a bone to pick with one or the other).

My simple suggestion, now that the "warning" has been given and Ray said he will make sure all is o.k, is to leave it alone and move on to other concerns. This pissing contest just ain't worth it.

Just my humble suggestion.

Ya'll have a good evening.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
My simple suggestion, now that the "warning" has been given and Ray said he will make sure all is o.k, is to leave it alone and move on to other concerns. This pissing contest just ain't worth it.

You are right, I have no reason to continue posting here.

I got involved because it was advertised as an illegal hunt in the same area and the same dates that I had a trophy Elephant hunter doing a hunt.

I would not be doing my job to allow this to happen.

Now that I see that they were just using the name "Gokwe" to sell an illegal Park hunt, it no longer effects me, so, I have no reason to continue. Plus, all the facts are now out there and the hunters can make their own decision as to the legality of this hunt.

All the Safari Companies in Zim must do business with Magabe's boys, don't you know that. I know for a fact that those that did got the good concessions back when, and some really good outfitters who we all know got the shaft, and their concessions went to one of the biggest outfits in Zim, Most of the good guys are now operating in Tanzania. Dudley Rogers must have sold his soul to get that Gokwe concession, he had to deal with the Zim Gov. so I'm not going for the holier than thou stuff posted above on that subect..

I am going to contact the Zimbabwe Game Dept and Outfitters union and see what their take is on this, if there is dirty water anywhere I will seek it out, I don't like being duked and I don't like being manipulated, and right now I don't know who the culprits are..I have gotten some information from Zim that the Governors are allowed to do this to feed the people and the Safari Companies might not like it and make a lot of noise about it..

I am not making any decisions, I am looking into this and for some reason a lot of people don't want me to do this, and that in itself isn't passing the smell test..All I want to do is get to the bottom of it and I'm not listening to the parties involved as they all apparantly have an agenda..If its illegal and would effect Wendells hunt, then he has nothing to worry about from me. All I want to do is get to the bottom of it.

I might make a pointg here and that is Dudley Rogers made some strong insinuations and states he is contacting the US Fish and wildlife, the Hunting Report, the FBI etc. etc. and that has not helped the case here. Bisides that it is bulllshit, I have not commited any wrong doing...

If in fact he does contact all these people and instigates an investigation then so be it, then this damn thing will end up in the courts, as I will have to retaliate and take legal actions against both Dudley and Wendell in a liable suit, I won't have any choice..I have tried to contact Dudley and received no reply. I don't want this to go that far but if it does I will do whatever I have to do...

Ray,

I'm not commenting on your offer one way or the other but statements like that are firstly asking for trouble from the Zim operators and secondly an open invitation to the USF&WS to start investigating every American hunter that's hunted Zimbabwe since the USA published it's first banned list.......

And incidentally, I hope you won't mind my correcting you in that Mugabe's boys don't own the country...... they f**king stole it from the lawful owners.

I know that Steve, and I am not a supporter of any goverment in the 3rd world, but we have to deal with them and you know that. You and I both know that the outfitters operating in Zim deal with the Zim Gov. otherwise they could not get their concessions..I know too many that lost thier concessions and some big Zim outfits got their concessions, ask Saeed if that's not true..but that,s not what this thread is all about. I simply tried to sell a hunt and I have a client on standby, and I will not allow him to go unless its legitamate, but I'm haveing a hard time getting facts, all I get is BS, but I will and I will make my decision based on facts not a bunch of damn threats from an outfitter.

Mate, I think you've missed my point entirely...... try re-reading my post but also try reading between the lines at the same time.

quote:

I have tried to contact Dudley and received no reply.

Dudley left the office and is in Gokwe at the moment. He sent me the email you sent to him and said he would answer you when he returned. He didn't have time time to address everything in your email since it was quite long.

Ray, you do understand that this hunt is not in Gokwe, it has nothing to do with Dudley or his area. It is in an area outside of Gokwe. It has no effect on my hunter, or Dudley.

Just to be clear, this all started because you advertised a hunt inside his concession. No, Gokwe is not a "general term for a huge area" Gokwe is only specific to his area. There are 3 Gokwe concessions and Dudley has all three areas. When anyone says Gokwe, it only means one thing.

The area where this hunt is to take place has a name, and it is not Gokwe.

Why Robbie used the name Gokwe as a cover to hide the real hunting area should concern you.

But this is none of my business anymore.

In a way, Ray is right.

There is no operator in Zimbabwe operating today without some connection to one or more of those connected with Mugabe.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
In a way, Ray is right.

There is no operator in Zimbabwe operating today without some connection to one or more of those connected with Mugabe.

Saeed,

Possibly true but to say so on a public forum most certainly won't impress some of those operators.

Ah well, writing between the lines doesn't always work!

why book and iffy hunt when right now there are so many good deals out there????????? why offer your customers and iffy hunt when there are so many good deals out there

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
In a way, Ray is right.

There is no operator in Zimbabwe operating today without some connection to one or more of those connected with Mugabe.

I agree but there is a difference with being connected to a legitimate Zimbabwe Safari operator or being connected to a Govenor allocating a hunt for finacial concerns.


ddj

Wendell,
The hunt is reported to me as being in Gokwe North and South, and that it is in Gowke Nat. Park..

Had you and Dudley emailed me in the first place we could have settled this like gentlemen, without internet interference, now your ducking out with no apology, and after I have contacted the Hunting Report, the US Fish and Wildlife and SCI Dallas bringing it to there attention because of the Rogers letter and accusations..I will patiently await Dudleys reply to my letter.

Steve,
As to the issue of whos who in Zimbabwe, there is no doubt in my mind, and I know who is in Charge.

I also know that every operator in Zim that is in the hunting business had to give in and deal with Magabes bunch and I have no problem with that as it was probably a matter of survival and they had kids to feed.

I also know a lot of them made some under the table deals and ended up with the good guys concessions, dirty politics as usual, the real world at large...Lets not white wash what went on "after" the inbedding of Magabe.

I am not a Zimbabwiean, Zim politics is not my business and I do not want to get in a pissing contest with someone that lost their country or with someone that is sympathetic with the old Zimbabwe ruling class, as my sympathies are with them also, but I am a realist, I feel for them and thats another matter to be taken up in another thread IMO, and I hope were not on that same run away train.

I am out of here and will deal with the matter of my hunter and his hunt based on what the Zim parks, Fish and Game, Hunt report, SCI and the Zim Government I guess, have to say about it.

Like I said to start with I would sort it out and get to the bottom of it and I'm about there right now I hope.

Just come from examining the Zimbabwe hunters exams, saw the post,
Firstly

I have to add that NOT ALL outfitters in Zimbabwe are affiliated to a ' partner' so a broad statement is in fact incorrect. We as the ZPHGA have had several meetings about so called meat hunts for the people, they are being investigated.

Secondly,

Robbie Kruger is NOT a Zimbabwe outfitter,

Thirdly,

Gokwe belongs to Dudley Rodgers, and anybody interested in the post and offer by Ray shgould contact the ZPHGA, Zimbabwe National parks ( Dr Matapanu, Dr Mazikanda ), and SOAZ, soaz@mweb.co.zw before paying a deposit to check legality and proper permits!!

Martin,
That is exactly what I have done, I have connected those organizations, all of them that you suggested, plus those Dudley made noise about.

I know Robbie Kruger is not a Zim PH, he is a RSA pH and the hunt is with Peter Uys, a Zim PH as I understand it. It is not unusual for a PH from RSA to take a client to Zim and have him guided by a Zim PH,it happens all the time. Hopefully these organizations you mention will direct me as to what I should do and if wrong doing is there then I will be in a position to help the officials do there job. I book for several safari companies in Zimbabwe and have for years, I pretty well know my way around.

Gokwe North and South do not belong to Dudley I am told and Wendall just admitted that saying that my hunt wasn't in Gokwe, but I think Gokwe North and South is in Gokwe National Park is it not?

like I said I have an email into Dudley and asked him if that was correct and advised him I would be willing to work with him to get to the bottom of this and if its illegal then I will furnish all the documents I have and let someone take aciton, if its all BS then I will hunt my hunter who knows the story and is on standby to send me a deposit.

In fact I saw such a hunt on American TV as recently as a few days ago..apparantly the Governors can do these meat shoots for their tribal people that are hungry.

I am getting the idea that the problem here is most outfitters just don't like it that the Governor can do this, but that its legal, Am I wrong here. Which would have probably made me back off if I had not been verbally abused in Dudleys letter.

I am asking a lot of questions that nobody wants to answer. Will I blow the top off this thing after the threats that have been made towards me, well yes and you take that to the bank.

I will talk to anyone that's civil but jump in my face, then expect to be jumped back at. The pussyifcation of the American male does not apply with this old curmudgeon who is too old and too hard headed to turn the other cheek when abused in any way, and inasmuch as I can walk away from this business at any point in time, therefore I am pretty damn independant and feel I have earned that right.

I don't know all the outfitters that have a "partner", but you can almost spot them by the ones with the best concessions,at least some of the time. I suppose you mean by "partners" those that are in bed with the Magabe bunch and have black officials as partners in their concessions. I presume thats kind of a politicly correct way of saying it is it not?,.. but I know some that are are not and that is what I said, never claimed all had "partners", you said that..I ment that all concessionaires had to do business with the Magabe Government to get a concession, is that not how it works?.

You and I both know this sort of thing has been whitewashed for years and that is my only comment on it..Nothing I can do about it, that is a problem you guys must deal with.

That this kind of hunt would be brokered by any US booking agent in this day and age is truly astonishing.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
why book and iffy hunt when right now there are so many good deals out there????????? why offer your customers and iffy hunt when there are so many good deals out there

Ray,

Should you have offered a hunt if you need to do sooooooooo much research at the momment just to varify it's legal? Perhaps a little more front end research WAS (in the past before offering the hunt) in order? I have God only knows how many people swing by my office trying to get me to sell their product in my business. I'm sure as hell not going to put it for sale and then see if it's alright. Everything gets thuroughly vetted before it goes on sale. My understanding from last year's discussion on hunts in Zimbabwe conducted in NPs is that it's illegal to hunt within a NP. Has something changed?

Brett

Tshabezi (Rogers) does have rights for Gokwe North. I spent three hours bumping over shit goat roads in a nearly defunct land cruiser to hand delivered the signed contracts to "the proper authorities" myself back in early May.
They had the rights for South when I was there also - do they now? I can't comment on that. If you really care to know, straight from the horses mouth, contact the local CAMPFIRE Rep in the area (crooked little bastard named Imberi (sp?) ) he will know.
This a bad deal all around. Lots of accusations and name calling and finger pointing...It is gettting no where fast. Ray is doing what he can to sort it out and make a plan (if need be). Is he 100% right? Nope. Is he 100% wrong? Nope. None of us ever are (ok rarely it might occur) but at least he is working on it. It has been reported, Rogers is aware of it, the "authorities" are aware of it and chopping up Ray or anyone else on this internet thread isn't going to do any good for any body.
Besides if you don't know yet that most deals in Zim come with a price tag that is sure to get a little dirt on your hands...well imo you haven't spent enough time on the ground there and it may be best for you to not do so. It is a hard ass place full of harder people. they do what is necesary to survive. UIntil you have had to live it, you aren't qualified to comment on it.
Cheers,
Brian

Allout,
Ray, that be me, doesn't know who is right or wrong, but is going to find out, that is 100% right in my books..Now Wendell says the hunt is not on Dudley, so that confuses the issue a little more. Yes sir, you are correct they (we) are hard people, I have made my bones in Africa, I have been screwed, shoed and tatooed there, it goes with the territory, and it takes years to figure it out, if you ever do..but I will not be bullied by threats..

It was handled poorly by both Wendell and Dudley, and then some of the flame throwers just added gas to the fire as usual and they do that without any knowledge of Africa and its politics, and without concern for that matter.

All would have been avoided if I had been contacted off the internet and it had been handled by business like people as opposed to loud mouthed threats and accuzations with no merit, I mean what the hell is the Lacy Act got to do with it? I specifically said, no exportation of parts, only pictures. Such BS ruins Dudleys credibility in the matter and his verbal abuse didn't set well either.

I see no reason to continue this thread as it is becoming hijacked from the original problem. If anyone involved wishes to DISCUSS Zim in general with me then contact me at my email address and keep it civil, I will be glad to debate it with reasonabal and knowledgable people.

In the meantime I have emails out to all the officials that I can think of, and trying to sort out what is right and what is wrong under their laws, not opinnions.

BTW, Trouthunter, the hunt is a meat hunt for hungry people according to my investigation, the only financial gain is to the PHs involved, and I find that acceptable so I don't really know what some of you are talking about and maybe you are just surmising..but whatever, it will wash out in the end..Also I have had excellent past hunts with Robbie Kruger, I had no reason to think other than it was a legal meat hunt just like the one I saw on National TV a few days before. all animals are to go to the tribal people. Feeding hungry people seemed a good thing to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I mean what the hell is the Lacy Act got to do with it? I specifically said, no exportation of parts, only pictures.

Mate, you might like to take a look at the LA thread on the African hunting forum.

The act is a truly iniquitous piece of legislation but nevertheless it allows for prosecution (for US citizens) for breaking ANY game law anywhere in the world. It's not just about moving trophies across borders.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Wendell,
The hunt is reported to me as being in Gokwe North and South, and that it is in Gowke Nat. Park..

Had you and Dudley emailed me in the first place we could have settled this like gentlemen, without internet interference, ...

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Ray, Would you mind telling me who the safari operator is on this Elephant hunt you posted on AR? Thanks. -- Wendell Reich

Damn, am I missing something here?!

OK, I told myself to watch this one from the sidelines, but just I just can't help myself.

Why is it that "agents" think they can peddle whatever snake oil that pops up in their in basket without repercussions? Is there something special about them that makes them immune from peddling a bad product?

As a sidebar - by agents I am aiming square at Ray, and some other guy posting here a few months ago. Who didn't do their homework. Who value a quick buck over a fellow hunter's dream trip.

These clowns drive me nuts. Because there just might be someone out there who wants to believe them, and get taken for a ride.

I applaud men like Wendell and Wade, who have been there and can tell you what to expect from experience.

Also the operators like Nixon, Martin, Hulme, or the countless other hard working men. I appreciate their integrity. They earn my trust, earn my business.

So Ray, why don't you take your BS posts out of here. There is a reason that snake oil salesmen got run out town stinking of tar and feathers.

Amen!!!

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Just come from examining the Zimbabwe hunters exams, saw the post,
Firstly

I have to add that NOT ALL outfitters in Zimbabwe are affiliated to a ' partner' so a broad statement is in fact incorrect. We as the ZPHGA have had several meetings about so called meat hunts for the people, they are being investigated.

Secondly,

Robbie Kruger is NOT a Zimbabwe outfitter,

Thirdly,

Gokwe belongs to Dudley Rodgers, and anybody interested in the post and offer by Ray shgould contact the ZPHGA, Zimbabwe National parks ( Dr Matapanu, Dr Mazikanda ), and SOAZ, soaz@mweb.co.zw before paying a deposit to check legality and proper permits!!

Mart, thanks for getting this stuff straight!

In addition, I would NEVER book with a non Rhodesian ( Zimbabwean ) Outfitter. I much prefer to support the country! Wonderful people, white or black!

I was unaware that there was a National Park in Zimbabwe called Gokwe NP. Have I missed something?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Gokwe North and South do not belong to Dudley I am told and Wendall just admitted that saying that my hunt wasn't in Gokwe, but I think Gokwe North and South is in Gokwe National Park is it not?

Ray, read my posts. They are very informative and can be educational as well. Here are the Cliff notes in case you missed it.

First, as stated by Dudley and by me, all three Gokwe blocks are Dudleys. Nobody can hunt on any Gokwe area without his permission. End of story, there is no Gokwe National Park.

Second, I was quoting you when you said that this hunt was not going to be in Gokwe. You said over on 24hr Campfire

quote:

I have a letter coming from the Governor of Zimbabwe who initiated the hunt with Peter Uys and Robbie Kruger. It is a meat hunt for tribal proverty. The hunt is in Shangwari North and South and not on anyones concession according to the governor...

So now you are saying it is in Gokwe, Dudleys concession and not Shangwari?

If it is in Gokwe, then it is illegal because Dudley has not authorized it. It is poaching.

So where is this hunt? And why is it being sold as a Gokwe hunt? Are you sure it is not in Kadoma or Makonde?

Why am I reminded of the word "bluster" when it comes to the seller of this hunt?

It would seem that there are two competeing schools of thought here.

1. You either need or want every dollar you can get your hands on and will do whatever you can to make as much money as possible, even if you have to make nice and cozy with people who have done nothing but take a stable, prosperous and productive nation and turn it into a broke, oppresive, reverse-racist state so they could get rich and powerful.

OR

2. Not.

It would seem that there are still enough "not" guys who run great DG hunts that, to be truly informed, a hunter owes it to himself to perform his own due dilligence regarding who he might book with.

I should stay on the side lines here but...... This is an illegal hunt period end of question. Now do lots of illegal and immoral things happen in Zim and most of the time the perpetrators if they pay the right bribes get away with it. yes they do.
Having said that I can assure that there are no 5th amendment rights under Zimbabwe law. As a sport hunter YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET MIXED UP WITH ANYTHING ILLEGAL OR WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE IN ZIMBABWE. You don't want to spend even one night in a Zimbabwe jail. I 'm sure that Ray means well but if this goes bad he sure as hell is not going to be able to help you out. I wouldn't touch this.

I wasn't going to post anything here either but lets face it, if I were a customer thinking about this hunt and read this thread, I'd veto this quicker than the speed of light.

Ray, I say this respectfully, but doing homework on a hunt AFTER you advertise it is just plain wrong. This hunts smells like the largest mound of shit simply because it is questionable. Please do your hunters a favor and email them this thread so that can help them make a decision.

From the outside looking in, your reputation is going downhill. Pitch this hunt and quit wasting your time "investigating it." There are plenty of legit hunts available.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
I wasn't going to post anything here either but lets face it, if I were a customer thinking about this hunt and read this thread, I'd veto this quicker than the speed of light.

Ray, I say this respectfully, but doing homework on a hunt AFTER you advertise it is just plain wrong. This hunts smells like the largest mound of shit simply because it is questionable. Please do your hunters a favor and email them this thread so that can help them make a decision.

From the outside looking in, your reputation is going downhill. Pitch this hunt and quit wasting your time "investigating it." There are plenty of legit hunts available.

Ditto

Ray, to answer some of your questions:

As a committee member of ZPHGA, I am still waiting to be contacted by you requesting information on this offer.
Dudley does in fact have Gokwe North and South, your assumption that he does not is incorrect.
There is no Gokwe National Park, it does not exist.
Dudley did not sell his soul to get Gokwe, after running it professionally for 20 years, he has managed to retain it, which in my books means that he has been honest and paid his fees on time, followed his Campfire agreement and operated legally above the radar.
Yes, Robbie Kruger is an SA guy, he may use Peter Uys, who is NOT A LICENCED PH in Zimbabwe, he resides on a seized piece of land in the Gwayi known as Karna East!
Meat hunts for the tribal people as you put it do not occur, in fact meat from elephant taken in ' tribal ' concessions ( commonly called Campfire areas ) is distributed to the locals, this is how it works. If elephant are shot in ' other ' areas, there are no villagers and it is possibly only for financial gain.
The wildlife in Zimbabwe is controlled by National Parks, all of it, without a quota or hunting permit stamped and approved by national parks, the hunt is illegal.
Most of the ' good guys' are in Tanzania, I would look again!

I have contacted SOAZ and the Director of Parks and will have an answer later today.

It has been said denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
It has been said denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Ray, to answer some of your questions:

As a committee member of ZPHGA, I am still waiting to be contacted by you requesting information on this offer.
Dudley does in fact have Gokwe North and South, your assumption that he does not is incorrect.
There is no Gokwe National Park, it does not exist.
Dudley did not sell his soul to get Gokwe, after running it professionally for 20 years, he has managed to retain it, which in my books means that he has been honest and paid his fees on time, followed his Campfire agreement and operated legally above the radar.
Yes, Robbie Kruger is an SA guy, he may use Peter Uys, who is NOT A LICENCED PH in Zimbabwe, he resides on a seized piece of land in the Gwayi known as Karna East!
Meat hunts for the tribal people as you put it do not occur, in fact meat from elephant taken in ' tribal ' concessions ( commonly called Campfire areas ) is distributed to the locals, this is how it works. If elephant are shot in ' other ' areas, there are no villagers and it is possibly only for financial gain.
The wildlife in Zimbabwe is controlled by National Parks, all of it, without a quota or hunting permit stamped and approved by national parks, the hunt is illegal.
Most of the ' good guys' are in Tanzania, I would look again!

I have contacted SOAZ and the Director of Parks and will have an answer later today.

Ray, maybe you should retire now.

I stand to be corrected, Hendrick Uys resides in Gwayi, I will get onto Peter Uys via parks today

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Just come from examining the Zimbabwe hunters exams, saw the post,
Firstly

I have to add that NOT ALL outfitters in Zimbabwe are affiliated to a ' partner' so a broad statement is in fact incorrect. We as the ZPHGA have had several meetings about so called meat hunts for the people, they are being investigated.

Secondly,

Robbie Kruger is NOT a Zimbabwe outfitter,

Thirdly,

Gokwe belongs to Dudley Rodgers, and anybody interested in the post and offer by Ray shgould contact the ZPHGA, Zimbabwe National parks ( Dr Matapanu, Dr Mazikanda ), and SOAZ, soaz@mweb.co.zw before paying a deposit to check legality and proper permits!!

Martin,

I appreciate your input from a man who is there.

Could you please explain to us how can anyone operate in Zimbabwe right now without having been forced to have "connections"?

[quote]the hunt is a meat hunt for hungry people according to my investigation, the only financial gain is to the PHs involved, and I had no reason to think other than it was a legal meat hunt just like the one I saw on National TV a few days before. all animals are to go to the tribal people. Feeding hungry people seemed a good thing to me.(quote)

So failure to find a "customer" to do the shoot is going to leave these folks on empty bellies?

This BS of "feeding the hungry people" doesn't hold water - besides the Governor must have an arsenal at his disposition and if he needs to save face for the next rigged elections he can always rally some of his cronies to lend a helping hand or for the same PHs to perform this service for free as a PR stunt.

Or, is it a must that someone HAS to make a buck at the expense of the unfortunate, similar to the man-eating lions on another post?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
Doug Chester Esq.?

LOL ....beat me to it !

Saeed

There are a few concession holders that own and operate their concessions without affiliations, these operators are predominantly campfire outfitters, and certain private land owners, contrary to what some believe, there are some private ranches that have not been touched, as well as campfire areas because of the ' chief ' factor are also out of bounds The affiliation of operators in these areas is with the community, fees are paid to the council and the wards ( direct payment methods ), and not to any government department.
Obviously certain areas that are ' attractive' have been 'scooped' up and sub leased, there is no doubting that. My retort towards Ray was purely to state that " to make a statement without knowing the facts can cause a lot of trouble and uncertainties, and lead to what we have here!!
Basically, you cannot make assumptions on an open forum!
Regards