What happened to the captive rhino and lion thread that was on here?

I believe that they did not follow Saeed's rules about posting all of the details of the hunts so they were removed by the Mods.

Were those at the Cincinnati or Cleveland Zoo?

Rich

Not the first time for CEC Safaris. They seem to have a problem following the rules.

Might be a hint there....

Gentlemen, if I may interject something here...how many of you have actually hunted Rhino in South Africa? Darted one? Having been involved with doing both and, being around "wild" Black Rhino's in Zim, no where are they a big challenge to hunt. They are about as difficult as shooting one of our American Buffalo. However, they are extremely dangerous animals and they will kill you, but so will our Bison. It doesn't matter if you kill one on 5,000 acres or 1 million acres. If you screw up anywhere your going to be a crippled man or worse. So I don't understand the constant bashing that Rhino and RSA Lion hunts receive, especially when the Outfitter/PH hasn't shown us they are corrupt or in league with under handed hunt promoters who use unsportsmanlike tactics that we all frown upon. Not everyone can afford a 21 day Lion hunt in Zambia, Tanzania or CAR. Not that RSA is cheap on Lion's but why take jabs at professionals who in most hunters experiences have done nothing but exhibit honorable hunting practices. This is becoming nothing more than another wedge between hunters, and the anti's are watching. If you don't care for hunting on fenced property, you probably will be crying to hear most of all hunting blocks have fences..at least until the poachers tear them down for making snares. "Judge not or be judged yourself." Just my observation as a fellow hunter.
LDK
PS: Before anyone wants to twist my comments into a pissing match, drop it! I am against any form of unsportsmanlike hunting practices, and this is only my personal opinion. United we stand...divided we fall!

the constant bashing is because both have a minimal relationship to fair chase hunting. check the websites that charge "extra"if a helicopter has to be brought in to locate the rhino after darting or shooting him. the first hunt i made in Africa was a 20,000 acre game ranch in Limpopo with resident rhino- absolutely the stupidest game animal i have ever seen. will they kill you? only if you are more stupid than them. i don't think i need to open the RSA lion hunt can of worms again- suffice it to say that there are obviously a number of free range lions wandering across the Limpopo from Botswana to equate to the people who post pictures of their fair chase trophies here- for sure they can't have been inside a fence( can they?)

+1 L David Keith. Nobody would ever shoot a Bison if the "no fences" (or stupidest animal) principle was applied.The quality of the hunt depends on the method and the operator, less on the size of the land. There would be no Rhino for hunting if they had not been protected behind fences. White Rhino have poor eyesight and are slow to anger, but watch out if a Black Rhino senses you in his personal space!!!!!!
JCHB
JCHB

Guys,
My question was more about what happened to the posts, not the quality (or lack there of) of the hunt being offered. I agree that the lion and lioness offer was incomplete, but from what I remember CEC either posted complete (or made complete) the offer for the Rhino and it was deleted as well. If the poster doesn't follow the rules then shame on 'em. However, if they do gove the required info and their post is deleted because it is offensive in it's substance to some people, is it right that others should be allowed to offer canned hunts for other "less controversial" species. What is the difference in shooting an impala behind a fence or a lion or rhino behind a fence? Just curious

DLK- you know I support you on this, I had a huge rant on the Roan/Sable hunt offered recently, this is the hunt section, not spew your opinion's about hunts offered! Sick and tired of people attacking ph/outfitters on legal hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Guys,
My question was more about what happened to the posts, not the quality (or lack there of) of the hunt being offered. I agree that the lion and lioness offer was incomplete, but from what I remember CEC either posted complete (or made complete) the offer for the Rhino and it was deleted as well. If the poster doesn't follow the rules then shame on 'em. However, if they do gove the required info and their post is deleted because it is offensive in it's substance to some people, is it right that others should be allowed to offer canned hunts for other "less controversial" species. What is the difference in shooting an impala behind a fence or a lion or rhino behind a fence? Just curious

I deleted all the threads that do not meet our minimum information requirements.

As long as the hunt is legal in the country it is offered, we have no objection of it being offered here.

But, ALL the relevant details MUST be posted.

I have also deleted offers made by others yesteday, for the simple fact of them not meeting our requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
As long as the hunt is legal in the country it is offered, we have no objection of it being offered here.

But, ALL the relevant details MUST be posted.

An enlightened and sensible policy.

505 gibbs, my post wasn't directed at you, or really anyone in particular. No offense intended in any shape or form. Your question was certainly valid. My opinion was based on the constant tongue lashing that some of our fellow members dole out upon PH's/Outfitters and booking agents, many times without merit. We all wish that all hunting worldwide could support, wild, free range hunting. Unfortunately, those days are over in some species. My hope is that we unite instead of constantly attacking our own; at least those who haven't done unethical, immoral or unsportsmanlike practices. Most of you guys, I highly respect and enjoy reading your opinions. There is a lot to gain from sharing your experiences, thoughts and hunt reports. And I agree with Oryxhunter1983, we should strive to write our comments in a more constructive way. CEC failed to post complete details, but I didn't find it offensive that they offered their hunts. 99% of us understand what "behind fences" entails. It was deleted but we move on.
Good hunting to all,
David

Cornie and Elaine Coetzee are folks who I have hunted with in Namibia. I hunted 17 days with them, and on only one day we hunted on a fenced several thousand acre Game Farm for blue wildebeest, which were all wilder than March Hares. The rest of the days were on cattle farms, sometimes on the edge of Etosha for problem lion, but always fair-chase. They are good and honorable people.
Elaine has family in SA that also provide opportunity to hunt Lions within fenced areas. The areas are large, and the lions can usually be found within a few days, but that is understood. The danger is still there--perhaps more-so than on a wild lion hunt.
I have hunted Wild lions for nearly 90 days without success, but have enjoyed the wildness of the countryside and the other game available.

Those who would refuse to hunt these "fenced in thousands of acres" Lions--they are perfectly within their rights. However, the folks who are offering these hunts are also perfectly within their Rights, and condemning them without knowing thme is unwise.

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:
Nobody would ever shoot a Bison if the "no fences" (or stupidest animal) principle was applied.

Chase them for a week in Alberta, Northern BC, The Yukon, or Utah's Henry Mountains....then come back and tell me if you think the above quote still applies. I recognize the necessity of Rhino hunting under these circumstances but we need to be careful not to let canned hunting negatively impact our perception of certain species. Plenty of people will never hunt bison because they think it HAS TO BE a pasture shoot and that's a real shame. Similarly, I think Rhino hunting and to a lesser degree Lion hunting are being impacted by these messed up perceptions of what the hunt "has to be".

every notice how people who promote canned hunts, and slaughter house safaris (at bloated prices over real hunts in many cases) always want to use the shit comeback "...don't talk about us in a negative manner, the anti-hunting forces are just waiting to seize the opportunity to divide us...."?

Here's some truth for you, the anti's use the promotion of canned hunts to devalue the true hunting experiences. The stories of shooting African game in small pens, or put and take, are the best ammunition you can give them. These type of hunts are ALL about the promoter making money, and some inept shooter getting to kill something for his $$$.
Canned hunts are what divide a lot of us from the serial slaughter, ego-tripping slob shooters. They don't usually want a hunt, that's like work. They want to go kill something different so they can go show their other slaughter house hero buddies that they bought a bigger trophy.

So, yes, we are a house divided, just like the rest of the family is from your senile Uncle Frank the neighborhood peeping tom. We are purposely disassociating the true sport and hard work of fair chase hunting from the slaughter house crowd.
You're game animal pimps, don't do it if you're embarrassed to be categorized as such.

Rich

Rich,

We all "pimp" something to make a living.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Rich,

We all "pimp" something to make a living.

False.

quote:

False.

+1

False, plus two!

Pimping is:

1. Illegal and immoral.
2. Selling or renting an illegal or immoral service.
3. A canned hunt is pimping, I am glad you defined it for the rest of us.

I cannot say what or who you pimp for a living, but I am sorry for you. To be that bereft of moral values must be very sad.
Most all of the rest of us put in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Not what WE think we're worth, but as close as we can get.

Hunting is or should be the most glorious and ancient activity. A fair chase hunt pits the hunter against an animal on as close to equal footing as possible to test your skills against the prey's.
Hunting can easily be defined and quantified.

1. You have to go to where the animal's natural haunts are.
2. You have to locate and stalk a specific animal within range of your weapon, and (hopefully) make a clean, killing shot.
3. You pit your skills against the animals.

The true value of a hunt lies in the difficulty of succeeding while adhering to those three criteria. A MAN will gain value under those conditions, in his own eyes, and the eyes of others. If all three are not there, the difficulty is reduced; and so is the value. To show value in the eyes of others, you have to work for the trophy. However, you are incapable or unwilling to put in the effort to do that.
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

You go to Africa on a canned hunt.
1. The animal is in a small enclosure where you do not have to search for it.
2. The animal cannot escape or contest the shooting.
You can walk up within a few yards of the captive animal and shoot it.

You return home and tell the truth to your friends. They denigrate you for your lack of hunting skills and inability to fulfill #1 and #2.
There is no glory in that, so you fabricate, out of whole cloth, some story of of an heroic adventure. The value is solely in the lie you had to tell to separate yourself from a mere slaughter of some helpless animal. So, now you are an inept shooter; and a liar.
I would rather engage in a fair chase hunt, and have the animal outwit me.

Rich
DRSS

I declare this thread...DEAD.

From memory it was an older Rhino on an 80,000 hectare Namibian property.

I'd shoot it.

There is no way I could cover 80,000 hectares in a week on foot anyway and if he's old, well he may as well help pay for the raiseing of other Rhinos. I doubt there are any free range Rhinos anywhere.

I certainly wouldn't claim it as a Trophy but it would be an great experience to shoot one.

I don't remember anything about 80,000 hectares, it does have a 22 inch horn.