Just saw the shill from Remington talk to the NRA media announcer at the Shot Show on the NRA site. He was asked point-blank about the SxS. His statement? The delay is because there hasn't been the demand for the gun, so that has delayed shipment. El Toro CaCa?
I know of about 30 people in Colorado Springs alone who want one! Talk about a liar...and I don't think I'm being too hard on him. Thoughts?

Marketing 101 - you assess demand BEFORE you start production.

Pretty clear that this is nothing more than some half assed attemopt to save face. But you NEVER, EVER, blame your customer base for your screw ups. That is a sure way to lose the customers you already have. And it is a sure sign of a company in disarray.

So the world's first disposable double rifle is pushed out again.

NO LOSS, EXCEPT FOR DREAMERS

At least the 30/06 is available and looks decent enough at AUD$1500 or thereabouts.
Cheers...
Con

Con,
where are the 30-06 versions avilable? I have been trying to get one for over a year to have as a bang around truck gun, but have been unable to find one. or if any bodey knows of a nother inexpensive double rifle i am open to sugustions?

Thanks RH-Outfitter

There is no mention of it in any caliber in the 2007 Remington catalog. Shown are single shot shotguns, a single shot rifle, and two O/U rifle shotgun combos. I talked with a dealer and he said he was told "off the record" Remington was disturbed by all the conversion discussions on the internet and potential liability issues.

Remington has turned into a pile of crap in the last few years. There customer service hasn't got a clue as to any of the import guns. This does not instill confidence in the masses.

Pretty soon Ruger and Herstal Group will own the markets for mass produced guns.

rh outtfitter the 30-06 double rifle has been avail up here in canada for quite some time....

quote:

I talked with a dealer and he said he was told "off the record" Remington was disturbed by all the conversion discussions on the internet and potential liability issues.

Interesting, and if that is the case they will stop making rifles all together.

A very small percentage of rifle owners engage in conversions of any kind. But is it not uncommon for any make or model.

Reading between the lines, if they are concerned about liability issues regarding converisons with the Spartan, there is an issue with the design and/or manufacture. Perhaps it is a pressure issue - it can only handle trapdoor pressures in the 45-70?

So in their public statement they blame the customers - no demand. And in their private statements they blame the customers - they'll screw up the rifle and sue us. Perhaps the real delay is to give Remington some time to rework their business plan to operate without customers in the future.

I would love to get my hands on the 30-06 rechamber it to 338-06 or maybe something along the lines of the 400 whelen.

700 nitro,

You say the 30-06 has been avalible in canada what kind of price tag do they have on them.

Thanks RH-Outfitter

I wish to hell Remington would get out of the way and let another major distributor take over the Baikal line. They'd sell thousands of .45/70 doubles the first year. I for one, would leave mine as is, and so would 100 owners for every guy that wants a cheap .450 No. 2. What a shame that Remington's philosophy is "Lying in the course of business is not a vice."
I sure hope that anyone from AR going to the SHOT show gives the folks in the Remington booth lots of polite but holy Ned over this gun.

Well, Baikal runs independent of Remington here in Canada, so if the 45-70s ever get here, I'll see what I can do to bulk order a bunch and ship them to you Yanks (at a decent rate of return)

As long as they didn't jack the price through the roof I'd buy 2. One I'd convert to 450 the other I'd leave as 45/70. But we don't have to worry about it because Remington is too f'ed up to be able to get it out. We may see them eventually but I don't think it will be by Remington's hand. Hopefully someone will pick up the ball and put out a budget DR (under $1000). 45/70 would be fine.

i'm putting the spartan SxS 45-70 in the missing in action category... same as with ruger's promised #1h 9,3 x 74 r... is there any way to "go around" remington and go straight to baikal???....i'd still buy 1....

roughly 1100$ candian give or take 100$

try www.shooterschoice.com

i have done a fair amount of business there they should be able to export one to you if you want one.....


they also have a 9.3x74r double rifle over and under for about 4500$ can.

quote:

Originally posted by RH outfitter:
Con,
where are the 30-06 versions avilable? I have been trying to get one for over a year to have as a bang around truck gun, but have been unable to find one. or if any bodey knows of a nother inexpensive double rifle i am open to sugustions?

Thanks RH-Outfitter

Available in Australia ... but I think only 1 of the importers has gotten their hands on them. They are not perfect ... being extremely stiff to open, but after some relieving by a 'smith they are pretty good. I've been told of one that has turned out to be a near MOA rifle, and the regulation is so easy its made a very cynical double enthusiast a believer. It only remains to be seen how they'll hold up over time. Rumoured is a 9.3x74R ... but no 45/70.
Cheers...
Con
PS They seem to have come in as Baikals NOT Spartan (Remington). I think you guys in the States are being cheated out of some great budget rifles by Remington.

You know, it just occurred to me that they may have screwed up assessing demand, the other way.

It is possible that they now know that demand far exceeds what they expected and tested with their original price estimates. In the supply and demand world, more demand means more profit.

We may eventually see them in the US, but don't be surprised if the price is much higher than expected.

Jim, you may be on to something. I grew up thinking the business model was that you offered a good, honest product at a fair price with the best possible customer service, and the customer was always right. I was "mistook in me judgments" as Kipling would say. The real model is the stockholders are always right and to hell with the rest.

To our friends in the U.S.A. It is time to get very upset with your local Remington dealer as they (sxs Baikal double rifle's) ARE available here in Australia at $AUD 1,350 cased (you do the $ conversion).

Not a "best" gun by any means but it is a sxs double rifle. Available ONLY in 30/06 at the moment and I am waiting for a 45/70 as I already own a double in 8x57JRS. Which is close to the 30/06; but if the 9.3x74R is ever chambered then this is much more desireable (in my eyes) than the 45/70.

Whatever is finally delivered from those two will be making themselves at home in my gun-safe. Keep the faith the guns are out there simpy a matter of time before they are sold in your neck of the woods.

michael - how about some pictures of your baikal / remington 30-06 double rifle

and what do they cost in real money - usd or euro ? no one knows the value of aust $, sorry

1 350 Australian dollars = 1 053.81 U.S. dollars

michael 70 why not have one of your australian gunsmiths cut off the 30-06 bbls on your baikal and put in your 9,3 ???

or bump it up to a 450 straight - there is plenty of ammo there for it.

any pictures you can post

Unless the quality has really improved since the model at the '06 SHOT show...I wouldn't spend a grand on it -- of course, the one there wouldn't actually open enough to insert the cartridges...Maybe they shoot well, and some people might really have a need for a double, but, heresy that it might be, you'll get a lot more gun by spending that grand on a bolt or a lever.

talked to remington today (1/15) .. they said if 2007, it will be late 2007.

if the lessrons will pay 1200 bucks for a bone stock model 70, i'll be more than happy to pay 700 for a double rifle.

dang, that's cheaper than assembling the parts and building a double, never mind time and machines.

jeffe

for those who -actually believe- they are going to buy a double rifle for $750...... i will sell you a bridge in ny or san francisco that you can collect tolls on.

instead of all this pointless bs and dreaming why don't you potential buyers put up or shut up ?


organize another group buy ----now !!

conatact dale nygaard - send him your $750

when he gets the 200 or 300 you plan to order he can import them.

probably also if you can get -50 - guys to put up the money.

BUT I DOUBT IT ! like one poster says, talk is cheap, but it doesn't buy the whiskey.

if dale won't handle it , get one of the guys who want one so bad to do it.

but stop kidding yourself - G R O W U P !

I know the SxS in .30-06 could be rechambered for the 400 Whelen.
What are the rechambering possiblities with the 45-70?
Thanks

is it possible to rechamber/rebore to 300 hawk 411 hawk, 9,3x62, 9,3x66??? i would think the 9,3x66 would be doable since doubles are made in 9,3x74r

You CANNOT rechamber an 06 to a 400 Whelan!

It has to be re- bored and rechambered. Theres alot of difference.

quote:

Originally posted by WannabeBwana:
Well, Baikal runs independent of Remington here in Canada, so if the 45-70s ever get here, I'll see what I can do to bulk order a bunch and ship them to you Yanks (at a decent rate of return)

I already ordered two down here, but have lost all hope of ever getting either. If they do come into Canada in .45-70, please post it...I'll just come home and get them.

TIA

AC

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
instead of all this pointless bs and dreaming why don't you potential buyers put up or shut up ?


organize another group buy ----now !!

Tom,
please, do try to calm down.

I am already on a group buy... with a reputable guy, who WON'T TAKE MONEY UNLESS HE KNOWS THEY ARE COMING.

so, rather than appear "off-my-meds" I won't go on a rant here.


Since you don't give me MY money, please don't tell me how I can spend it.

Tom,
please read this quote!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
..700 for a double rifle.

dang, that's cheaper than assembling the parts and building a double, never mind time and machines.

jeffe

jeffeosso - who is doing the group buy ?

and how long has it been going on ?

and what is the latest update status report

if the rifles are actually available in russia it shouldn't take more than a few weeks, month at most to place an order and get things going.

this whole thing sounds like the guy who is going to publish the accurate reloading handbook. has been "going to do it " for how long ??? a year ? year and a half ? 2 years.

guys, it ain't gonna happen if you "let jimbob do it "

if you are serious get it going , managed by someone who will put the effort into it to get it done and make a few bucks on it too,

i don't believe you'll ever buy a new double rifle for $700. hell the russian shotguns cost 2/3 of that and they certainly aren't anything to write home about at all.

Tom,
you don't know me, and apparently failed to do a search on group buys on the forums.

REMINGTON does not have any in country that are available for sale.

since you think (notice, THINK) it is easy to get a rifle from russia to the us, please explain the "annex b" regulations and conditions of import.

which, btw, was the first TWO years of delay from baikal. Yeah, actually, tom, I have been on this for nearly FOUR @(Q*$)(@ years.


STATUS? do you want in? the gent won't take any money until remington assures him that they will actually make it in country.

"letjimbobdoit"

hmm, oddly enough, why don't you do a search on
searcy double rifle raffle
500 jeffery and 505 gibbs group buy
2004 stc hunt
2005 stc hunt
2006 stc hunt

and about a dozen other PSA type things out there... that "jeffebob" did...


in otherwords, get over it.

jeffe , sorry, i don't know how to do a search for group buys.

but any licensed importer knows how to get the guns & rifles in from all over the world.

hell, they import machine guns from the eastern block al the time. that certainly takes more know how than getting in sporting rifles.

so i "think" your guy - whom you won't identify for reasons known only to yourself- doesn't have his stuff together at all.

forget "remington " - go direct

instead of getting your info from the horses mouth you may be getting it from the other end !

Jeffe: I appreciate your efforts on the group buy. Say, was there any buzz at all on the Baikal double rifle at the SHOT show?

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
jeffe , sorry, i don't know how to do a search for group buys.

but any licensed importer knows how to get the guns & rifles in from all over the world.

yep, and the laws and forms have all changed in 2006. in short, there's no more milsurp semi's comming in anymore, and most parts are restricted. times change

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:


hell, they import machine guns from the eastern block al the time. that certainly takes more know how than getting in sporting rifles.

see above. Also, the annex B SPECFICALLY names the the firearms that can come in and from where. it literally requires an act of congress, and presidential signature, to change that

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:

so i "think" your guy - whom you won't identify for reasons known only to yourself- doesn't have his stuff together at all.

yep, you THINK that. largest remington dealer in texas.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
forget "remington " - go direct

you can't "go direct" to remington. period. in fact, unless you are a distributor you can't order 1000 pieces and have remington fill that order. it goes through distributors.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:

instead of getting your info from the horses mouth you may be getting it from the other end !

speaking of the other end, Tom, you are outo of the loop on the process and proceedures.

*I* have talked with the product managers (there's been 3 over the last 2 years) directly. Have you?

thanks, but you are really really off base



Bill,
Baikal can't bring their guns (that remington imports) into the country without the remington/spartan name on them. Licensing.. remington bought ALL of their production for X models, and they can't be brought into the us without remmie's approval.

no remmie, no double.

now, if someone was really connected with a US friendly country, they might could bring in a shipment...


but, remmie isn't bringing them in due to STEEL FAILURES at high pressure 45/70 loads. They can't seem to get the lawyers happy enough on them, despite warnings.

So, back to tom, remington AINT allowing release of them, even if you had a 1000 piece order.

thanks a bunch

[QUOTE
hell, they import machine guns from the eastern block al the time. that certainly takes more know how than getting in sporting rifles.
[/QUOTE]


I don't believe this is correct. I believe it has been more than 10 (almost 15) years since the firearms laws were changed to forbid the import of any foreign machine guns which were authorized for transfer to U.S. resident civilians. Some may have been imported for law enforcement/military sales, but not for civilian sales.

The laws were even changed so that the no longer importable ones already here in the hands of law enforcement could NOT be transferred to civilians. Used to be, that was a way around the law...that is, was a way of getting some of the banned pieces, but no more... I used to buy Thompsons, AR-10s, and AC-556's that way, but can't these days.

Up until recently parts for the guns were importable (not including operable receivers), but now there are large numbers of those shipments being turned away, and I believe it has been about 16-18 months since any new permits for import of those parts were approved.

I sure wish it was otherwise, but as it stands, I don't believe that is possible.

tomo577,

I find your posts to be out of line, rude and immature.

Please try to keep silent for a while.

Thank you