quote:

Originally posted by srose:
CCMDoc,

I would think a 600 to 700 grain would be just about right for the 600NE. I'd probably go to the lighter side as I wasn't able to do in the 577 that I did in the 500. I'm thinking I may go down to a 500 and 575 grain in the 577NE to get those velocities on up to 2300 or better. Still a lot of thump.

Sam

A 600 something grain CEB would be pretty interesting.

We know from the work that you and Michael did with my 600 OK and Robgunbuilder's 715 grain "Crayola Tips" that these lightweight bullets penetrate extremely well. A CEB #13 profile in the 600 grain range should be the bee's knees.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Great stuff! By the way, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577.......

No!!!!!!! I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577......

YES YOU DO! YES YOU DO!! YES YOU DO!!!

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Great stuff! By the way, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577.......

No!!!!!!! I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577, I DON'T need a 577......

YES YOU DO! YES YOU DO!! YES YOU DO!!!

Why would Biebs need something he admittedly can't handle?

quote:

Why would Biebs need something he admittedly can't handle? Wink

Yeah, on a 577, I need to use both hands :-)

The reason biebs can't shoot a 577 it gets sold before he can get ammo for it.........

I wanted to show you a few of the things Sam and I are looking at when shooting the 577 NE.....

This big case is not as easy to work with as the smaller cases, such as 500 NE, so much capacity makes one work a little harder, a little more precise to get consistency. Leave one card wad out, and you can toss that load out the door. 577 NE likes compression to get consistency, loose powder, toss consistency out the door. Loading these has to be more precise, and you cannot cut corners with it.........

Sam can refresh my memory about this old Kynoch load. We have fired original Kynoch loads in every test we have done any research on, 470 NE, 500 NE, and 577 NE, and at all times they would run 44000-47000 PSI time and time again, regardless of cartridge...........



Now there are some things to note here, and one is that Peak Pressure is just before .5 milliseconds. To duplicate this or come close to this, one has to match the time of peak pressure as well, and all this falls on how whatever powder you have burns, and that can be changed by compression as well.... which I will show later......

Here are some of my favorites that we have done so far...........

This is RL 17.. First one is 127/RL 15 and No Filler, the second one is 125/RL 17 with Foam Filler. As you can see the 125/RL 17 created more pressure, powder was compressed, and I believe gave a better more complete burn with the peak ever so slightly faster than the 127/RL 17 with no filler....... RL 17 is a really good powder for this cartridge.........

quote:

The reason biebs can't shoot a 577 it gets sold before he can get ammo for it.........

And yet ANOTHER turd in the punchbowl!

Biebs... The truth will set you free.............. I don't think I ever recall you having a
577 or 600 long enough to get it home, much less shoot it?

To date Sam and I have tested 100+ different Pressure Traces over 3 days of shooting. Tomorrow we are scheduled to go one last morning before the gage comes off, and rifle is ready to hunt.....

Some more excellent tests that I am fond of...........

Wishing you and Sam a FANTASTIC Safari and lots of whack em and stack em...one shot kills with the 577's!!
Will be expecting a full report and PIX!!
Cheers,

Thanks 470EDDY,

We just got finished with this round of testing and I think we have tried about every thing we can think of. May take Michael a while to get all the data put together. We did some really interesting stuff with Trailboss and AA5744. Both seem the work very nicely for practice loads in nitro guns but if you are using Trailboss in a BPE gun be careful, you can't get the velocity you need with low pressures. Overall we have come up with some really nice loads with about any powder you might have in your hands or at least you should be able to find something that will work for you.

Sam

Those Trail Boss reduced loads really are a hoot aren't they Sam! I was so surprised by the complete lack of recoil the first time I touched one off that I literally started laughing out loud. Really tames the beast and allows one to focus on proper shooting mechanics without getting pounded.

Todd,

Yes you are right those light loads are like shooting a 22. The Trailboss load we tried was 30 grains of TB with a lubed fiber wad under the bullet. This did not fill the airspace and was just used to protect base of bullet. Wad was seated with the bullet so there was no gap between bullet and wad. A LBT 650 grain hard cast WW bullet was going 1126 fps average with a pressure of 24889 psi. We also did a 450 grain cast LBT with 40 grains of TB and got 1496 fps with a pressure of 29201 psi. As you can see if you go by the recomended which was about 50 grains of TB the pressures would be very high for a BPE gun. In a nitro gun you should be fine. One note the pressure peak was very fast which is right because this is a very fast burning powder.
The real winner with cast bullets was AA 5744. Pressures were very low and consistant rise as charge was increased. We started with a 650 LBT with a fiber lube wad under the bullet and did not fill the airspace. 40 grains of 5744 gave us 1092 fps with a pressure of 12572 psi. we went up to 65 grains of 5744 in 5 grain steps. 65 grains gave us 1704 fps and a pressure of 28517. This powder would work very well for Black powder guns.

Sam

Sam, in your comments concerning Trail Boss, noticing that you used a wad filler, I just wanted to take the opportunity once again to point out that you stated that "THIS DID NOT FILL THE AIRSPACE".

It's often easy to misinterpret load data and the use of Trail Boss, as evident from the comments Graham Wright made concerning the powder and his attempts to achieve BPE velocities using TB as a BP substitute. Many, including the TB manufacturer, misinterpreted that as a recommendation against using TB in doubles completely, when nothing could be further from the truth; rather do not use TB in a BPE gun to achieve traditional BPE velocities.

The point of my post here being to once again state, that under no circumstances, should TB (Trail Boss) be compressed. In other words, pay particular attention to the fact that even though Sam and Michael used a wad filler with TB, the powder was NOT compressed!

Todd you are correct the wad I used was just to protect the base of the bullet and DID NOT FILL THE AIRSPACE IN CASE. There was a lot of airspace left is the case with both Trailboss and AA5744. So much so that Michael questioned that to make sure it was OK. Be very careful of double or triple charges with AA 5744 in this big case.
You also mentioned black powder substitutes. We tried one load of Blackhorn 209 to see how it worked. We filled case to the base of the bullet with no filler of any kind. This worked out to be 112 grains of Blackhorn 209 with a 650 grain LBT cast bullet. Velocity was 1789 fps and a pressure of 36286 psi. This is way too high of a pressure for a BPE gun. It might be interesting to see what kind of pressures it produces in a muzzleloader. We didn't have time to try all the other black powder loads and substitutes I would have liked to try. Maybe after I get back from Africa I will put another gage on the gun and do some more loads for BPE guns. After seeing what I saw with AA5744 I can't believe we could find a better powder for BPEs.

Sam

Interesting stuff , Sam . Thanks for sharing and looking forward to the results , especially on those raptor bullets. Been hearing a lot of good things about them recently but don't have any experience with them.

Sam I,m shooting a Searcy .500 with SR 4759 36.0grs. 520 hard cast bullet from a lyman mould no gas check,This load produces 1450fps. with round groups under 4" at 50yds. I shot one 6 shot group at 100yds. off the sticks with 5 under 4" with 1 flyer opening the group up to about 6".What I would like to know where I could find or learn how to make some of the spacers that you are using as I think they might help me with the occasional flyer and leading that i,m getting?

Kestrel,

Ballistics Products carries a lot of wad materials for all gauges. For the 500 you would want 32 gauge. The grease wads I use are fiber shotgun wads soaked in molten bullet lube. You also can try Buffalo Arms as they have a lot of 50 caliber stuff for cast bullet shooters. You can also get a wad punch and make your own out of a lot of different materials. Felt and cork make good fillers. Foam backer rod can be found at most hardware stores. It is used to fill cracks in concrete.
Hope this helps. I just checked and I think you can find any wad you need from Circle Fly LLC they have a much better selection than Ballistic Products.

Sam

Sam , I'm expecting my VC 600 soon and was wondering what make dies you use when reloading these large calibres. I haven't bought or ordered any dies yet , but would like to do so in advance before I visit the States in January .
Thanks , Jan

Jan I like RCBS but in the be calibers they are mighty expensive. I use CH for the 577 and they work. About 1/3 the cost of RCBS.

Thanks Sam , I appreciate the info.

Jan- I agree with Sam, either work well. CH are custom made to order.
I would NOT wait until you come to US to order them...it might take 30-60 days to get them as they are not normally kept on the shelf, including at RCBS...you know the bean counters and inventory turns!!
If you bought your rifle new, you might have your dealer contact Ken Bush at Kebco to see if he might order them for you and have them ready when you get here to pick up and take home with you. Otherwise a buddy to order and get them for you would be advised!!
Alternative, put a thread here on AR in the Classified to see if you can pick up a used set, they are around.
Good luck with that new VC!!
Cheers,

First kill with a 600 grain CEB Safari Raptor out of a 577 NE. No tracking required.

Thanks 470Eddy , I'm in contact with Ken , will talk to him about the dies , maybe get them in Dallas or Vegas in January.
Good looking stock on that 577 Sam.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
First kill with a 600 grain CEB Safari Raptor out of a 577 NE. No tracking required.

Is it really ethical to use such a marginal caliber on dangerous game like that?

Seriously, nothing better for practicing than using the big gun on real game.

I'd like to see a picture of the "insides".

She spotted me and was about to charge, I had no choice!
What insides!!!! I'm afraid not many could handle the gore.

Now Sam, shame on you for "overkilling" that doe!

Hey I must have missed her mama last time!

Good work Sam.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
She spotted me and was about to charge, I had no choice!
What insides!!!! I'm afraid not many could handle the gore.

Quick report from Sam in Zimbabwe this morning.... No details yet, was left on answer machine, but it appears Sam has a good buffalo, and hippo in the salt with the 577 NE......

Michael

Congrats Sam!!!

Looking forward to the details!!!!!
Is that Hippo a dry land kill?

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Looking forward to the details!!!!!
Is that Hippo a dry land kill?

Sam had zero interest in shooting one in the water, I am 100% positive the hippo was on the dirt. The area he is in, Gache Gache with Andrew and Corris is an incredible area for hippo on the dirt, I shot two on the dirt there in July myself. I am also fairly certain he may have used the light 600 gr NonCon HP tipped as well, that was the plan when he left anyway.......

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Sam had zero interest in shooting one in the water, I am 100% positive the hippo was on the
dirt. The area he is in, Gache Gache with Andrew and Corris is an incredible area for hippo
on the dirt, I shot two on the dirt there in July myself. I am also fairly certain he may have
used the light 600 gr NonCon HP tipped as well, that was the plan when he left anyway.......

M

I am glad to hear the above...

600 grains means sec den: .2504
I look forward to THAT report!

Any news on Sam's hunt? I've heard he's put critters down with his 577 but no specifics or photos...

Well I'm back and the 577 performed wonderfully. It is now my hunting gun and after 18 days of hunting it looks like a 100 year old gun. The sweat, dust and long days going through thick jess took its toll on it. It has character now. It also has two elephant, a buffalo, hippo, bushbuck, waterbuck and two impala two its credit.

Sam

Congratulations srose. Good work !

WOW!! Well Done and Great Bag of trophies!!
Anxious to see pix and hear the stories!!
Cheers,

Thanks! I have posted a full report in Hunt reports.

Welcome back Sam!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
... the 577 performed wonderfully. It is now my hunting gun ...