THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM DOUBLE RIFLES FORUM

Page 1 2 3 4 5 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
VC vs Merkel
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
NOTHING SUCKS MORE THAN THE MOMENT DURING A HEATED DEBATE, WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU'RE WRONG!

......................... bewildered


No, my friend. I assure you with every ounce of my being that the families with whom I met all too frequently today would argue that so many things suck so much more ...

But I know you already know that and probably better than some others - just visiting here for a moment to ease my mind among people I count as friends ...

OK - back to the battle: SABATTIS SUCK!!!! horse

Oh wait,wrong thread hilbily


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Nemo .450
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
quote:
Originally posted by CCMDoc:
I guess I am a bit confused so I'll ask Mac and others here if the following meets the definition or that "B" word I won't use:


None of the following are offered as "options", I specifically requested them and Guillaume Verney-Carron as well as every other other member of the Verney-Carron family each personally responded to every request with "It is your gun, we will build it any way you want. We want you to be happy."


1) Action shaped per my specifications - different than the shaping of any of their "production" actions and not offered as an option;

2) splinter forend - not done on any of their double rifles;

3) engraving based upon photos I provided - their standard is a game head only. In my case I wanted more than just the head of a "standard elephant" and provided precisely what I wanted - and that's what I received

Of course the stock dimensions (all of them after two separate multi-hour fittings of all of the acronyms you guys know) based upon the fittings done separately by Thomas Bland&sons as well as Griffin&Howe.

I also had the choice of what I wanted for cheekpiece and whether it was present or not (having "no cheekpiece" is not a usual "option" on any production double of theirs, though shadowline vs. no shadowline is an "option") and right sided palm swell and position based on my fitting.

Then there were the plethora of "options" - front and rear sight types, grip cap resevoir, intercepting sears, stalking safety, extended top strap, steel end cap and inserts on forend, sling swivels, barrel length - all of which I opted to get.

Now, not that I care one way or another what anyone calls it but just so I get my terminology correct per the "accepted" standard usage ...

Do the "non-options but done because I specifically requested them to be done the way I want" fulfill the "B" definition?

or

Do the multitude of "options" I chose fulfill that definition?

or

Neither because the definition is something entirely different and I still don't understand...

Thanks for the clarification


CCMDoc, I would say, based on your first hand experience with Verney-Carron's people,not just salesmen, if true, that I stand corrected on all counts!

NOTHING SUCKS MORE THAN THE MOMENT DURING A HEATED DEBATE, WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU'RE WRONG!

......................... bewildered




I, er... um... does this mean I wasn't wrong? Confused . . . Eeker . . . hilbily . . . sofa


------------------------------------------------------------------------

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. -- John 3:36


http://www.accurateinnovations.com - http://aigunstocks.com/home-2/

NRA Life Member
DSC
SCI
DRSS - STILL waiting on MY "Taksdale" .450NE or a refund... coffee


"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women, so that your honour grows. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honour in wars." (Johannes Liechtenauer, 14th century)
 
Posts: 279 | Location: North-East Georgia | Registered: 12 November 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of DoubleDon
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Mac

Sure sounds like CMCDoc is getting (despite himself) a "bespoke" gun to me. Big Grin


I think you are right my friend, at least on the internet, lets see how the finished product turns out! I think the rifle he ordered or wants to order is a 450/400NE 3" right? IMO, a very good choice, especially for a lot of use in Alaska, and will hold it's own in Africa as well.


Mac

Doc has ordered a .600 N.E. at something like 11#-12#. OUCH! That will certainly make a cigar store Indian flinch!! Wink


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
My only dog in this fight is that Merkels are quality rifles and of a traditional, time tested, and stout design.

If I were running a rifle building company...I would run it just as described of VC.

-the customer is always right
-if you got the money...I got the time

Good on VC for returning customer service standards!

I will have to say...Germans have always been hard-headed and sure they knew best. Wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38302 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
As far as resale value - that's not a consideration for me. The return on this investment will be the look on my son's face when I hand it to him and tell him to "add some scars to it on a safari in Africa".



CCMDoc,

Now that's what I love to hear. Kinda of my new policy on personal firearms as well. Let' use em, get to really know them, and pass on down; keep a history in the family. Very nice, Doc.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mdstewart:
quote:
As far as resale value - that's not a consideration for me. The return on this investment will be the look on my son's face when I hand it to him and tell him to "add some scars to it on a safari in Africa".



CCMDoc,

Now that's what I love to hear. Kinda of my new policy on personal firearms as well. Let' use em, get to really know them, and pass on down; keep a history in the family. Very nice, Doc.


clap tu2


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38302 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of MacD37
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nemo .450:
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
quote:
Originally posted by CCMDoc:
I guess I am a bit confused so I'll ask Mac and others here if the following meets the definition or that "B" word I won't use:


None of the following are offered as "options", I specifically requested them and Guillaume Verney-Carron as well as every other other member of the Verney-Carron family each personally responded to every request with "It is your gun, we will build it any way you want. We want you to be happy."


1) Action shaped per my specifications - different than the shaping of any of their "production" actions and not offered as an option;

2) splinter forend - not done on any of their double rifles;

3) engraving based upon photos I provided - their standard is a game head only. In my case I wanted more than just the head of a "standard elephant" and provided precisely what I wanted - and that's what I received

Of course the stock dimensions (all of them after two separate multi-hour fittings of all of the acronyms you guys know) based upon the fittings done separately by Thomas Bland&sons as well as Griffin&Howe.

I also had the choice of what I wanted for cheekpiece and whether it was present or not (having "no cheekpiece" is not a usual "option" on any production double of theirs, though shadowline vs. no shadowline is an "option") and right sided palm swell and position based on my fitting.

Then there were the plethora of "options" - front and rear sight types, grip cap resevoir, intercepting sears, stalking safety, extended top strap, steel end cap and inserts on forend, sling swivels, barrel length - all of which I opted to get.

Now, not that I care one way or another what anyone calls it but just so I get my terminology correct per the "accepted" standard usage ...

Do the "non-options but done because I specifically requested them to be done the way I want" fulfill the "B" definition?

or

Do the multitude of "options" I chose fulfill that definition?

or

Neither because the definition is something entirely different and I still don't understand...

Thanks for the clarification


CCMDoc, I would say, based on your first hand experience with Verney-Carron's people,not just salesmen, if true, that I stand corrected on all counts!

NOTHING SUCKS MORE THAN THE MOMENT DURING A HEATED DEBATE, WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU'RE WRONG!

......................... bewildered




I, er... um... does this mean I wasn't wrong? Confused . . . Eeker . . . hilbily . . . sofa



Nemo .450, it would seem so! However we will know for sure once CCMDoc gets what he ordered the way he ordered it................or not!

For now it looks like he will get it, and if he does, then VC is one of the only lower class makers who offers what ever flavor you like.

However all the makers, that most consider to be OFF THE SHELF makers, do offer custom fitted rifles within reason!

BESPOKE ( a word I simply hate)is a pony of a different stripe, IMO! For now, it seems, if what CCMDoc was told, will be done,and will show up on the finished product, then BESPOKE is the word!


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
we will know for sure once CCMDoc gets what he ordered the way he ordered it................or not!

For now it looks like he will get it, and if he does, then VC is one of the only lower class makers who offers what ever flavor you like.

However all the makers, that most consider to be OFF THE SHELF makers, do offer custom fitted rifles within reason!

BESPOKE ( a word I simply hate)is a pony of a different stripe, IMO! For now, it seems, if what CCMDoc was told, will be done,and will show up on the finished product, then BESPOKE is the word!


coffee fishing


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CCMDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
we will know for sure once CCMDoc gets what he ordered the way he ordered it................or not!

For now it looks like he will get it, and if he does, then VC is one of the only lower class makers who offers what ever flavor you like.

However all the makers, that most consider to be OFF THE SHELF makers, do offer custom fitted rifles within reason!

BESPOKE ( a word I simply hate)is a pony of a different stripe, IMO! For now, it seems, if what CCMDoc was told, will be done,and will show up on the finished product, then BESPOKE is the word!


coffee fishing


Boy...I am grad we got that settled! Roll Eyes

Has someone sent Webster an updated version of our "defininition"??? If not...I am sure their editors are on pins-and-needles! rotflmo


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38302 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of LionHunter
posted Hide Post
I came to this thread late but am glad I did. I find this discussion to be one of the most informative I've seen on AR.

I was measured by V-C at Reno but didn't have time to discuss things. I am considering a used Merkel 500NE (again). And am still working on my Sabatti. I may end-up going back to my bolt guns, but the DR experience has been very interesting, to say the least. Time will tell, but I have an Ele cow awaiting my arrival in Zim this September, so can't wait much longer.


Mike
______________
DSC
DRSS (again)
SCI Life
NRA Life
Sables Life
Mzuri
IPHA

"To be a Marine is enough."
 
Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
I came to this thread late but am glad I did. I find this discussion to be one of the most informative I've seen on AR.

I was measured by V-C at Reno but didn't have time to discuss things. I am considering a used Merkel 500NE (again). And am still working on my Sabatti. I may end-up going back to my bolt guns, but the DR experience has been very interesting, to say the least. Time will tell, but I have an Ele cow awaiting my arrival in Zim this September, so can't wait much longer.



Yes it has been interesting.

My Verney-Carron 600 Nitro Express and my Sabatti 450/400 will accompany pop and me in Namibia in November. May take his Remington 700Ti in 300 RSAUM for his Plains Game part of the safari.

Good luck on Ms. Jumbo!


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Dave Bush
posted Hide Post
Doc, maybe you have answered this before but if you did, I missed it. What was your last .600 NE like to shoot and how much did it weigh? What made you select the .600 over the .577? Do you have any idea of what it would cost to buy a plain old VC PH in .577?


Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).
 
Posts: 3728 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 26 November 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Doc, maybe you have answered this before but if you did, I missed it. What was your last .600 NE like to shoot and how much did it weigh? What made you select the .600 over the .577? Do you have any idea of what it would cost to buy a plain old VC PH in .577?



Hey Dave,

I believe it weighed 14.5 lbs. and was really quite pleasant to shoot probably because it fit me so well as well as the weight.

No real reason for the 600 over the 577 except I've always liked the caliber and have a 600 Overkill with a ton of bullets.

No idea of cost for a 577 but Ken Buch of Kebco posts here and will certainly answer PM or emails on the subject.

Stay well
Paul


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
vc in 577 is 18k in 600 nitro 22k
 
Posts: 568 | Registered: 14 May 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of DoubleDon
posted Hide Post
We all have our opinions. IMHO, I'll take the .577 all day long...at any price.


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1709 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleDon:
We all have our opinions. IMHO, I'll take the .577 all day long...at any price.


Maybe I'll have to get one in that caliber too! tu2


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of bwananelson
posted Hide Post
i have both the merkel is stiff opening but besides that its a toss up


DRSS,SCI.
ZOLI 9.3X74R (2)
Zoli 450 400 NE
Merkel 470 NE
V-C 600 NE
VICTOR SARASQUETA 375
 
Posts: 351 | Location: deltona florida | Registered: 09 March 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Ok, i am going to admit up to it. I started this thread. I did my research. I concluded to have a 500 NE built for me by VC. Then an e mail arrived offering me a Merkel 470 NE with a lot of bells and whistles at an insane price. The Merkel arrived today. I have yet to shoot it.
 
Posts: 12122 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of CCMDoc
posted Hide Post
I've had both.

You can't lose with either!

CONGRATULATIONS! beer


NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003

Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow
 
Posts: 3465 | Location: In the Shadow of Griffin&Howe | Registered: 24 November 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I imagine I will end up with both.
 
Posts: 12122 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Folks, thanks for all of the info and commentary above. Its been 3 years in the making to form a decision. Last year at Reno I leaned away from the Merkel and more towards the VC for my first double. This year I had renewed interest in the Merkel but my interest increased even more for the VC with more time manhandling their doubles, from more discussions with Ken, and bopping back and forth between all of the various double booths to compare features and designs. I'm now happily wearing the VC hat they gave me and posted a photo of me a VC in my Facebook profile with a declaration that its the one for me (but the Searcy fieled grade is still a tantalizing prospect though I'm uncertain if it will still be offered by the time I save enough "fun tickets" to place an order). Until then, I'll continue to hide 80 bucks a week in my gun safe from the watchful eyes of my finance manager (a.k.a. wife). If only she could understand the passion of steping into the deer woods of California with a .450-400....
 
Posts: 156 | Location: Preferably in the woods with my Verney-Carron .450/400 NE double rifle | Registered: 07 January 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of safari-lawyer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
Ok, i am going to admit up to it. I started this thread. I did my research. I concluded to have a 500 NE built for me by VC. Then an e mail arrived offering me a Merkel 470 NE with a lot of bells and whistles at an insane price. The Merkel arrived today. I have yet to shoot it.


The people of the great state of Alabama applaud your purchase. The people would like to give you a box of 470NE ammo. They have nominated me to deliver this gift. The people must have their way. Plan accordingly.


Will J. Parks, III
 
Posts: 2989 | Location: Alabama USA | Registered: 09 July 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I am sure we can put it to use lowering the swine and armadillo populations in Gilchrist county.
 
Posts: 12122 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of bwananelson
posted Hide Post
karry take me with you we can use the 600 to


DRSS,SCI.
ZOLI 9.3X74R (2)
Zoli 450 400 NE
Merkel 470 NE
V-C 600 NE
VICTOR SARASQUETA 375
 
Posts: 351 | Location: deltona florida | Registered: 09 March 2009Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia