I would like to officially announce the formation of a new club for DR shooters. The NHUYHHADRSC. Stands for Non Head Up Your High Horse Ass Double Rifle Shooters Club. Here are the rules:

1. You must acknowledge that a low end double with some custom work can make an outstanding hunting rifle

2. You must think it's a little weird when grown men are well versed in and obsess over engraving

3. You do, however, appreciate a rifle having quality wood and strong steel

4. Your name is not Todd Williams (sorry Todd, but well, you know.....)

5. You consider a rifle a tool and consider art to be things like: sculptures, paintings, and jazz trumpet

6. You might think twice about spending $60k on a Corvette but don't blink at the thought of spending $70k for a heavy duty diesel pickup

I am open to other rules from everyone except for the obvious exception of Todd Williams. However, my say is final when it comes to the rules.......

Guess I won't qualify.

Must have my head firmly up my arse.

I like double rifles and fine craftsmanship and don't view them with the same appreciation as an Estwing 22oz hammer.

Don't have to be high end rifles, but must have great form and function.

Bet a fine old Vette holds it value beter than the diesel truck

Guess I will not qualify either. I am not sure what your issue is with Todd, as I have always found him very knowledgable and helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Guess I will not qualify either. I am not sure what your issue is with Todd, as I have always found him very knowledgable and helpful.

+1

I think I'm not eligible either, my drop lock Westley Richards 500 will be much more than a tool!!!!

Cheers

Nick

PS it will have some exceptional engraving as well!!!!!

I guess I'm out, but let me know when you have your fundraiser and I may buy some cookies.

As long as Mr Williams becomes Chairman of this club I am fine with it !

He knows how to handle fast cars, proper ammo and doubles and that should be good enough for all of us. I am sure he now and then accepts a Chevy diesel truck also ... and he accepts Merkel and Chapuis doubles. He is also a fine scooter driver according to some other gentleman here on AR ! What more can you ask ?

Morten

Cal wants to add rule #7:

Said rifle(s) had to be produced prior to 1905

Rule #8

As long as you shoot it often and well, the brand doesn't matter

Rule #9

The amount paid for a double Rifle often bears an inverse relationship to the skill of the buyer in using said rifle

I think Shootaway will be the only member.
Cal

I do not qualify....I am a sucker for old british nitro doubles and bore rifles alike..

You shoot modern machine produced doubles...I beg to differ..

I guess I have my head far up in my high horse derriere...

My dream rifle is a H&H Royal 500/450. Guess I'm out. But I don't make it a practice to look down on what other people have or don't have.

Not sure about the Chevy diesel trucks! I've got a Dodge diesel truck with 350,000 miles on it and going strong!

And it's never had a Dremel Tool applied to it!



INTJ, does this mean I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you this year? First Jines, now you? What to do, what to do ...

I was deselected in the preliminaries. Never made it to the first interview.

Meanwhile for everybody else:

This is one of those situations where I don't want to join a group that would have somebody like me as a member!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Not sure about the Chevy diesel trucks! I've got a Dodge diesel truck with 350,000 miles on it and going strong!

And it's never had a Dremel Tool applied to it!



INTJ, does this mean I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you this year? First Jines, now you? What to do, what to do ...

No, no, no. Your are one of the first people to jump on the sarcastic humor wagon--especially with low end DRs, and to that end it would have been insulting for me not to single you out in some humorous manner on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I think Shootaway will be the only member.
Cal

I consider Shootaway to be "he of who we do not speak", so no, he can't be in the club. I do like Biebs rules though and will add them later.

You guys do realize this is all in jest? Perhaps a way to bridge the gap between those who want to buy something high end in factory form vs those who are happy to start with the basics and build something how they want it?

May I suggest a Rule #10?

You would rather pay $100 each for three sets of cheapo Chinese socket wrenches, replacing each as it breaks and bends, than pay $300 for one set of high quality USA made socket wrenches that will last a lifetime. This is because you know that any wrench will turn a bolt.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
May I suggest a Rule #10?

You would rather pay $100 each for three sets of cheapo Chinese socket wrenches, replacing each as it breaks and bends, than pay $300 for one set of high quality USA made socket wrenches that will last a lifetime. This is because you know that any wrench will turn a bolt.

....if it doesn't split before the bolt turns!

Rule No.11: "All screw slots will eventually conform to the shape of the incorrect turnscrew when sufficient force applied."

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
May I suggest a Rule #10?

You would rather pay $100 each for three sets of cheapo Chinese socket wrenches, replacing each as it breaks and bends, than pay $300 for one set of high quality USA made socket wrenches that will last a lifetime. This is because you know that any wrench will turn a bolt.

That doesn't fit the profile. A better analogy would be you typically use Sears Crafstman tools vs paying the premium for Snap On......

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Rule No.11: "All screw slots will eventually conform to the shape of the incorrect turnscrew when sufficient force applied."

That misses too. The concept is function over form. Paying for basics vs frills.......

I don't think it comes down to just "basics vs frills"...if you removed all the frills from a H&H Royal, such as engraving, case color hardening, exhibition grade wood, etc...you would still be left with a mechanically flawless rifle. A low end double, including my Heym simply does not function like a best quality British double. You pay a lot for the name and quite a bit for the frills, but you still have a whole lot more function that the low end guns have or ever will.

Rule #12: like intj, you must drive a Yugo 2-door. The functional equivalent of my old Jag convertible; IF you take a sawzall to the Yugo top.

Don't worry about the card count this year Todd. I will send you one, but it might come postage due...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Rule #12: like intj, you must drive a Yugo 2-door......

INTJ drives a tuned LML Duramax Diesel, so this rule misses as well......though the Sawzall idea is intriguing.......

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

Don't worry about the card count this year Todd. I will send you one, but it might come postage due...

It's good to have friends!

I appreciate the art that is the making o a DR and the embellishments as long as they are not gaudy. I think a good English double is transcends its purpose and elevates the spirit. That said, plain worn and beat up double that has killed many a prize quarry with a history will be my choice over a pristine new HH. I am in both camps I guess. I would be jazzed to have a plain stainless 577 double built yesterday but a storied beauty would make me drool. I guess life is pretty good when we get the privilege to bitch about what kind of double we own. Let's drink much, shoot much and forgive much lest we be become that guy nobody wants to be around.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I don't think it comes down to just "basics vs frills"...if you removed all the frills from a H&H Royal, such as engraving, case color hardening, exhibition grade wood, etc...you would still be left with a mechanically flawless rifle. A low end double, including my Heym simply does not function like a best quality British double. You pay a lot for the name and quite a bit for the frills, but you still have a whole lot more function that the low end guns have or ever will.

How so? Does the H&H shoot 3/4" groups at 50 yds with my load like with my Sabatti and perhaps with your Heym? Is the action any stronger? Does it fit me any better? Does it operate any more flawlessly than my Sabatti or your Heym? The H&H is without question the finest of the fine, but it has no better performance or functionality. To guys like me, that means it is just more expensive, not better performing.

In my world, everything must earn its keep. Title and pedigree mean little, performance means everything. Some high end doubles would earn my respect, some wouldn't. I apply the same standard to low end DRs. The ones that work well I respect, even if they had to have custom work. The low end DRs that don't work well earn my disdain as much as the high end DRs that don't work well.

Having said that, I have no issue with those who love high end DRs. It's only when they start getting a snobbish attitude toward other rifles that I find myself unable to resist poking at them a bit. They are very easy targets, pun intended..........

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I appreciate the art that is the making o a DR and the embellishments as long as they are not gaudy. I think a good English double is transcends its purpose and elevates the spirit. That said, plain worn and beat up double that has killed many a prize quarry with a history will be my choice over a pristine new HH. I am in both camps I guess. I would be jazzed to have a plain stainless 577 double built yesterday but a storied beauty would make me drool. I guess life is pretty good when we get the privilege to bitch about what kind of double we own. Let's drink much, shoot much and forgive much lest we be become that guy nobody wants to be around.

I like your attitude Sir! I think you made the best case ever for owning a high end DR, that it "transcends its purpose and elevates the spirit." That I cannot argue against. And I appreciate when the attitude toward my Aaron Little tuned Sabatti is something like "Wow! That turned out to be a very good DR."

I love seeing pictures of the beautiful English doubles here, and even the Heym and V-C doubles are amazing! Of course I'd love to own one. I've shot a couple of fine English doubles belonging to a very kind gentleman in Darwin, and that fueled the fire to buy my own. Mine's a humble Merkel .500NE, and, yes, I have had to get two problems fixed. But now it's all good, and it gives me immense pleasure and security when hunting buffalo nice and close. My Merkel is the very best double I could afford, and still budget for some African dreams and a few other bows and rifles. This year, I've killed five wonderful buffalo and one immense scrub bull with my double.

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
I love seeing pictures of the beautiful English doubles here, and even the Heym and V-C doubles are amazing! Of course I'd love to own one. I've shot a couple of fine English doubles belonging to a very kind gentleman in Darwin, and that fueled the fire to buy my own. Mine's a humble Merkel .500NE, and, yes, I have had to get two problems fixed. But now it's all good, and it gives me immense pleasure and security when hunting buffalo nice and close. My Merkel is the very best double I could afford, and still budget for some African dreams and a few other bows and rifles. This year, I've killed five wonderful buffalo and one immense scrub bull with my double.

Dear sir,

Merkel is not considered as low end bad quality in Europe. In fact it is considered as high quality !

Morten

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Not sure about the Chevy diesel trucks! I've got a Dodge diesel truck with 350,000 miles on it and going strong!

And it's never had a Dremel Tool applied to it!



INTJ, does this mean I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you this year? First Jines, now you? What to do, what to do ...

Mr Williams,

you should buy a Blaser - then I am sure you will be put on the list for Christmas Cards from Biebs promptly


Morten

I'm out, having always prefered handmade fine guns to industrial ones with stamped parts and Mercedes berlines to Japanese cars.

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Not sure about the Chevy diesel trucks! I've got a Dodge diesel truck with 350,000 miles on it and going strong!

And it's never had a Dremel Tool applied to it!



INTJ, does this mean I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you this year? First Jines, now you? What to do, what to do ...

Mr Williams,

you should buy a Blaser - then I am sure you will be put on the list for Christmas Cards from Biebs promptly


Morten

As it stands today, Beibs sends me a lump of coal each Christmas. Much better than owning a Blaser!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


Not sure about the Chevy diesel trucks! I've got a Dodge diesel truck with 350,000 miles on it and going strong!

And it's never had a Dremel Tool applied to it!



INTJ, does this mean I shouldn't expect a Christmas card from you this year? First Jines, now you? What to do, what to do ...

Mr Williams,

you should buy a Blaser - then I am sure you will be put on the list for Christmas Cards from Biebs promptly


Morten

As it stands today, Beibs sends me a lump of coal each Christmas. Much better than owning a Blaser!

Todd, that's not coal, but it may look like it when it dries out :-)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qUXoNUzAyvk

I believe this video has been posted before. This sums up for me the difference between mechanical perfection and low end doubles that are "good enough". This is why it "functions" better to me. You may not be able to tell the difference in group size or various other criteria but it exists none the less.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, that's not coal, but it may look like it when it dries out :-)

No wonder the house smells when I burn that stuff in the fire place!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, that's not coal, but it may look like it when it dries out :-)

No wonder the house smells when I burn that stuff in the fire place!

Todd That's not what you think it is! That is a picture of the Marquee on the Blaser factory front door!
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