Gotcha. It was really an eight point Texas whitetail--about 125 pound range. I offended someone by using the title "Another deer with a .223" and was accused of being in your face bragging etc, thus the thread title. This was shot by my nephew (same one that shot the one on the other thread). The deer was hit high on the shoulder and dropped on the spot. This was with .223 using Winchester bulk packed(cheap--not premium) bullet. Deer went down in his tracks but required finishing shot to head with pistol. This deer like the last one, we recovered the base of the bullet on the off side--perfect mushroom.

you're a dog...

I still do not see what the fuss is all about.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Gotcha. It was really an eight point Texas whitetail--about 125 pound range. I offended someone by using the title "Another deer with a .223" and was accused of being in your face bragging etc, thus the thread title. This was shot by my nephew (same one that shot the one on the other thread). The deer was hit high on the shoulder and dropped on the spot. This was with .223 using Winchester bulk packed(cheap--not premium) bullet. Deer went down in his tracks but required finishing shot to head with pistol. This deer like the last one, we recovered the base of the bullet on the off side--perfect mushroom.

Didn't the other one require a finishing shot too?

Sounds like it's time for your nephew to move up to a bigger caliber.

Scottfromdallas--Yes the other required a finishing shot. I find this to be true with larger cals as well. Never know which animal drops dead instatntly and which require finishing touch. To me the impressive thing was they both went down in their track and required no tracking--and then a finishing shot.

Naw...that's the way you do it with a Hornet, 223, 204, etc....you just put a whole in 'em and then go kill 'em.

Carpetman,
this is the internet and this is an internet forum.
I tell people at the range and at the deer camp. "This is for fun". When it quits being enjoyable, then I'll no longer do it.
I like the old bromide that is attributed to Davy Crockett, "Be sure you're right, then go ahead".
If you have any sensitivity, or a soul, you'll know when you've "sinned" with a rifle. Even then you can seek redemption.
Remember the "Dominion Covenant", given in Genesis, to have dominion over the birds of the air and the beasts of the field.
Shoot what ya' like with whatever you choose. Don't let the bastard's get ya' down.

Best
GWB

Geedubya,

what ever happened to Davy Crockett?

Didn't the people of Tennessee fire him after one term? The thing in Texas didn't work out too well either as I recall...

Rich

IS,
I've been running against conventional wisdom all my life. Don't pay much attention to what others say.

We're all headed to the barn, one way or another. Its just a matter of when and how.
As I heard a fellow once say,
there's things that grates on a man worse than dyin'.

As to how things worked out for Davy, I couldn't say, as I wern't there.
But I do like John Wayne's speech about the word "Republic", from his film "The Alamo"
We know what happened as a result of the Texicans stand at the Alamo, the rout at San Jacinto and the birth of Texas.

Best
GWB

quote:

Didn't the people of Tennessee fire him after one term?

David Crockett served two terms.

Actually, Crockett got crosswise with Andrew Jackson over Jackson's policy of pushing all of the Cherokees off of their land in Tennessee, which was a policy tantamount to genocide (Google "Trail of Tears"). Jackson's cronies, fearing the "everyman" influence of Crockett would spell trouble for Jackson, set about a viscious political campaign, likely coupled with voter fraud, that was successful in unseating Crockett.

Crockett's parting words were (perhaps slightly paraphrased) "You can all go to hell. As for me, I'm going to Texas." Which of course turned out to be a hell of sorts.

Davy would have had no trouble taking whitetails with a .223. A .223 would have seemed a magnum compared to the .36 caliber flintlock Kentucky Rifle he was accustomed to. The tens of thousands of deer taken with .36 fintlocks never required a follow-up shot simply because none was available. You just tracked the deer until it ran out of sufficient bodily fluids and could go no more. Compared to a .36 ball the .223 kills like lightening.

I thought Crockett would run them down, wrestle them to the ground and finish them off with his bowie knife ??

I believe Crockett had several months earlier wrestled a would-be assasin of Jackson to the ground after he attempted to shoot the president.

Not that I really give a rats a$$ but; question? Why are you using the cheapest bullet you can find in a cartridge of questionable ability? And why are you using a cartridge deemed questionable?

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:
Not that I really give a rats a$$ but; question? Why are you using the cheapest bullet you can find in a cartridge of questionable ability? And why are you using a cartridge deemed questionable?

Davy Crockett was killed at the Alamo.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Geedubya,

what ever happened to Davy Crockett?

Didn't the people of Tennessee fire him after one term? The thing in Texas didn't work out too well either as I recall...

Rich

Laugh so hard it hurts.

WhatThe--Why am I using the cheapest bullet? Because they work. I also use this bullet in .243 and it works in it too. Real question--when it works 100% so far---why would I not use it? If it aint broke don't fix it. I have read many times about the need to use a PREMIUM bullet if you could relate to me real experince that shows what I'm losing and what I'd gain by switching I'd appreciate it. Deemed questionable? By whom?? Certainly lots of OPINIONS given that it wont work, but my real experience has been to the contrary. If this round crippled deer like many have the OPINION why is it legal? Do you have any real experience you could share with us that would would add credence to it being questionable?

carpetman1

I guess we missed the season this year can you suggest a place for me to take my Son (12 years old) next year around here? Thanks for any info.

Steve E..........

SteveE--I am lucky indeed that I am able to hunt as a guest on a place owned by my son in law and his family thus have not looked for another place. I do know of a lady that owns lots of land South of here and have no idea about her prices and availability. Send me a PM and give me your phone number and I'd be happy to give you any info I have.

Well this is most appropriate, we have Ol Davy Crockett in the thread. When hunting on colder days I do wear a coonskin hat, without a tail but it does have ear flaps. My dentist was a close personal friend of Fess Parker.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
WhatThe--Why am I using the cheapest bullet? Because they work. I also use this bullet in .243 and it works in it too. Real question--when it works 100% so far---why would I not use it? If it aint broke don't fix it. I have read many times about the need to use a PREMIUM bullet if you could relate to me real experince that shows what I'm losing and what I'd gain by switching I'd appreciate it. Deemed questionable? By whom?? Certainly lots of OPINIONS given that it wont work, but my real experience has been to the contrary. If this round crippled deer like many have the OPINION why is it legal? Do you have any real experience you could share with us that would would add credence to it being questionable?

Don't be getting all greased up. Like I said, "I don't really give a rats a$$" And I always use words like "questionable" because I'm not totally sure, leaving room for debate. If it works for you, then hey...have-at-it! I've heard stories to the contrary of yours where long tracking journey's were required because the caliber/bullet didn't perform. I guess you could start the debate here? Not interested though, I use a .308 and like I said, if it works for you, then there's no reason to change a working light bulb..

Oh and BTW, Mr. Crockett was shot in the right kidney and bayoneted in the liver. He was found at the West courtyard wall before being drug to the fire and roasted with all the others. They had to dismantle furniture and a few buckboards for the wood.

WhatThe--Really not greased up--I hear statements about what I have done and seen many times not working and would like to hear any actual experience to the contrary. The .308 is a great choice. I gave my grandson a Win 88 in .308 and it has been magic for him.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
WhatThe--Really not greased up--I hear statements about what I have done and seen many times not working and would like to hear any actual experience to the contrary. The .308 is a great choice. I gave my grandson a Win 88 in .308 and it has been magic for him.

I think you have to turn a deaf ear to statements that are contrary to your own experience. I'm sure you know the abilities of your cartridge and this is perhaps where people want to challenge the choice. I'm sure you're not taking wild ass shots out at 600 yards at large deer with a .223 but rather working in your comfort zone where you know you can make a clean kill. It's the obvious that some people don't give credit for, I guess?

WhatThe--You nailed it--I don't take wild shots. This past week-end I did carry my .223 (past several years has been .243) and did watch a large doe and a large buck facing me at about 150 yards. Just wasn't the shot I wanted and I never considered trying it, nor would I have with 30-06 or any other rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
WhatThe--You nailed it--I don't take wild shots. This past week-end I did carry my .223 (past several years has been .243) and did watch a large doe and a large buck facing me at about 150 yards. Just wasn't the shot I wanted and I never considered trying it, nor would I have with 30-06 or any other rifle.

I did take just a shot (maybe 75 yards) several years ago. A big fat muley sporting just a fork but non-the less a big deer (I'm a meat hunter, I find the antlers not so tasty). In any event I put a 165 Gr. Nosler Sptz. dead center in his chest. He went down like a whore on duty but the bullet raised all sorts of hell inside! I don't think I have ever seen such a mess. From what I could make out, the bullet entered about 6 inches or so and proceeded to do a Southern version of the HillBilly Stomp. The bullet exited his belly taking his manhood with it. I did the same thing on a 60 pound Boar using a solid copper TSX. I didn't dress the boar, but I did dress the deer and like I said "what a mess" almost disturbing.

I may be missing the point completely, but the finishing shot was adaquate, wasn't it? How much bigger pistol caliber would you go?

Ya'll have a Merry Christmas!!!


If this ain't all for fun, why aren't we getting paid?


jswk

You are right saying that a 22 centerfire can not kill deer. Ha Ha.

The first deer my father had me dress out was one he shot from the backyard, down the sloping hill into the adjoining 60 acre logging. A stepped off 425 yards.
One shot from his 22 Varmiter, they were not called 22-250's then. He used a 52 gr bullet made on SAS dies from a 22RF case.

One shot thru the lungs, the Deer ran maybe 60 yards. Needless to say very little left of the lungs, when I dressed it out, what a mess. BUT no wasted meat. The bullet clipped one rib going in and never left the chest cavity.

When the Washington Dept of Game changed the law here in the late 70's, LOTS of guys were pissed off. If they could dust a crow at 300 to 400 yards, they surely shoot a deer in the proper place.

Heck, I even put down a deer or two with a 225 Win, and later a 357 rifle.

James Wisner

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:
Not that I really give a rats a$$ but; question? Why are you using the cheapest bullet you can find in a cartridge of questionable ability? And why are you using a cartridge deemed questionable?

Curious as to your reference of "questionable". In whose mind, must be yours.

Not in the minds of those that have actually tried it and found through EXPERIENCE the methods to successfully apply the strengths of that caliber.

Many here on these forums deem it effective.

Yours was a nice try.... just came up wrong.

I'm hunting deer with my 22 hornet next year. My 223 kicks so hard my vagina hurts. I'm real deadly with my 22 hornet because of the mild recoil.

Scott,
don't overlook the 35 gr. v-max and the 36 gr. varmint grenades in your hornet, as the old saying goes, "they are the bee's knees.
Best
GWB

quote:

My 223 kicks so hard my vagina hurts.

scottfromdallas--I realize you are joking about using a .22 hornet, but truth is use it and put the bullet in the right spot and the real equipment concern is how good a knife do you have--you'll need one. Some people can hit the sweet spot and cut through the pelvis with a knife. I never seem to hit it. I do carry my loppers and sometimes trim mesquite limbs that would scratch my pickup so I use them on the pelvis--works great couple snips and done. I've tried other brands, but I like my Stihl loppers--pricey but in my books worth the extra.

Yeah, I was joking. It just surprises me how many 223 deer threads pop up. I just saw another one.

I mean if people that use them really think they are good deer rifles, why post about it in the title like it something special? I'd rather see the story about the hunt and then mention what was used, the distance, etc... Shows you truly have confidence and the round is just part of the story instead of being THE story.

Just my 2 cents. I guess people have the constitutional right to be wuss and shoot deer with 223s

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I'm hunting deer with my 22 hornet next year. My 223 kicks so hard my vagina hurts. I'm real deadly with my 22 hornet because of the mild recoil.

quote:

Just my 2 cents. I guess people have the constitutional right to be wuss and shoot deer with 223s

ScottfromDallas--Why do people use .223 in the title? I tried to accomodate another person not liking the title and change it to a raging cape buffalo. Longest thread here lately was "another .223 deer". Gosh if I'd said 30-06 or .300mag deer--might not have gotten ANY responses. Like Sizzler restaurants said--sell the sizzle not the steak. You are correct--it is no feat.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
ScottfromDallas--Why do people use .223 in the title? I tried to accomodate another person not liking the title and change it to a raging cape buffalo. Longest thread here lately was "another .223 deer". Gosh if I'd said 30-06 or .300mag deer--might not have gotten ANY responses. Like Sizzler restaurants said--sell the sizzle not the steak. You are correct--it is no feat.

You are correct about the responses. It's just the same old arguments and posts every time. I'm not in favor of deer hunting with a 223 but that is just my own opinion. People can do what makes them happy. I think this will be my last post on any 223 deer thread. They are all the same anyway.

I realise this thread is somewhat light hearted, but it is really not funny. I don't doubt for a second that small deer can be taken humanely with a 223.

However Carpetman, what you did with the first shot from the 223 was cut the spine and paralyse the deer. You then walked over at your leisure and finished it with a pistol shot to the head.

That is not at all funny. If the account you give is accurate, you should be ashamed.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:
Not that I really give a rats a$$ but; question? Why are you using the cheapest bullet you can find in a cartridge of questionable ability? And why are you using a cartridge deemed questionable?

Curious as to your reference of "questionable". In whose mind, must be yours.

Not in the minds of those that have actually tried it and found through EXPERIENCE the methods to successfully apply the strengths of that caliber.

Many here on these forums deem it effective.

Yours was a nice try.... just came up wrong.

Are you implying that I alone have deemed the .223 questionable for deer. If so, well thank you. Unfortunately that would be credit undeserving as your statement is false. If you don't believe that the cartridge has been deemed "questionable" for deer, than perhaps you should read more of this thread, more magazines and perhaps do some field tests where you will learn it's a hot debate and the term "questionable" derives from that principle. I myself believe that the .223 is a capable cartridge within it's limits. Lets say 200 yards with a well placed shot using a heavy expanding bullet. I don't think that too many reasonable folks would argue with that, but then again some will saying it's not enough while others may say I could go another 200 yards. That's fine and all are entitled to their opinion. But many here base their opinion on their own experience which gives them more reason the believe in their statements that much more. So for me, I'll simply say, If it works for you, then who am I to argue" while at the same time if it doesn't work, than try something else.

quote:

But many here base their opinion on their own experience which gives them more reason the believe in their statements that much more.

What is more interesting is that some of the above base their opinion on NO EXPERIENCE at all just their highly held beliefs. They will proudly proclaim that they have never nor will they ever take a deer with a .223. A self declaration of their lack of experience. No in the field experience.

While citing the need to read more magazines is dubious advice at best, you would find some of those "stab and blast" writers are recognizing a new line of bullets being made to fit the market share of those hunters who wish to take deer with a .223.

Not questionable at all to those who have EXPERIENCE in the field with the caliber. Sorry.

Brian (Claret Dabbler)--You are correct that the deer was paralyzed. Bow hunters frequently wait half hour or so to give a wounded deer a chance to bleed to death. I would classify that as at leisure. In this case the deer was approached immediately after shot and dispatched as fast as possible. I wouldn't call that leisure. Now my question to you is what gun will always kill instantly? Frankly I have seen many deer shot with several different chamberings and seen them hit many different places and I can't come up with any combination that kills instantly EVERYTIME. You never know till you have pulled the trigger. The deer I shot last year with a .243 had both his heart and liver pulverized, but still walked several feet and stood on it's feet for half minute or so. If you have the answer please post. The shame would be if the deer ran off crippled. The shame also appears to be someone with limited or possibly no experience is trying to make a case when there is none.

quote:

My 223 kicks so hard my vagina hurts

That is FUNNY!