Just to ensure the thread lives on, Bell thought the 256 was a great Giraffe round out to 500 yards with iron sights and RN 160 grain bullets...up over the bushes and down into the heart = dead Giraffe.

quote:

Originally posted by mackey:
Olarmy

I did not say it could not be done, read my previous post carefully.

I said I do not think it is right or sensible to shoot at large game at 500 yards with the small cased 6.5's.

I have shot a very large number of deer with a small 6.5 and that is how I have come to my conclusions, through practical experience and observation of the results in the field.

Bigger calibres with large capacity cases are better for taking on long range shots regardless of the angle the animal may be standing at, rather than handicapping oneself with small cartridges that are just barely capable at such ranges.

A hunter can certainly fire the small 6.5's at game 500 yards away but the results and outcome will not be 100 percent guaranteed on every occasion.

Gregor Woods wrote that he uses the .375 for everything because it takes the doubt out of hunting.

I am saying something similar, if you want to shoot game at 500 yards then use larger calibres
with larger capacity cases instead of the small 6.5's.

Sorry but that's just baloney. I've killed more deer with 375s 416s and 458s than most guys. And I can garrentee you from my experience that a 308,270,25/06 knocks them down generally faster than a big bore on a just behind the shoulder shot.
From the caribou I watched die this fall. On behind the shoulder or frontally. The 6.5 Creedmoor kills every bit as fast as the 06+308 . . There was not a precievable difference between the 3 carts. A 375 wouldn't have put them on the ground one bit faster.
And I'm a ( reasonable) Big bore guy.

The last thing I'd want to shoot at 500 yards is a 375 H&H unless it was necked down to 7mm.

Drop is dialable, wind is voodoo and I'd rather worry about 13" than 36" (10MPH)

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
The 260 Remington seems like a peach of a deer round. I am guessing that its the 308 win and mostly 7mm-08 that never let the 260 get any ground.

The Creedmoore seems to be DOA even faster than the 260 as a "commercial" hunting round.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is doing with the similar velocity 6.5mm rounds what the 375 Ruger did with similar velocity 375 rounds. It is just a better mouse trap! . That does not mean the other 6.5 mm carts are not good or even great mouse traps.

I'm having serious trouble understanding how some members fail to perceive that an accurate target round is also an accurate hunting round.
. There are too many of them to not know that.
The 308 Winchester, an inherently accurate military and target round is also an excellent hunting round. As is the 6.5×55, the 223/5.56, 30/06, 300 Win Mag 338 Lapua and 50 BMG. For their respective sized quarry. Since the 6.5 Swede is a great moose round. A historical and current fact. ! I fail to see how the 6.5 Creedmoor is not equal. Seems like every month there are more factory rifles brought out in 6.5 Creedmoor.
If Remington would have applied some quality thot to the 260 from its birth. There would probably never have been the 6.5 Creedmoor. . Even if all they had done is use an 8" twist it would have faired better. Just like the 244 Remington. .
Hornady and Ruger did their homework BEFORE they brought it out. And now are reaping the rewards of their hard work. While Remington let the 260 founder.

How many times has Remington made huge miscalculations when introducing a new cartridge?

They did perfectly with the 416 Remington. And with the RUMS ans Short RUM'S.
They did good with the 7/08 too. I had a 300 Short RUM and I liked it a lot for a 30 caliber. I wish it was more plentyful. I would build a wild cat on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Landrum:
How many times has Remington made huge miscalculations when introducing a new cartridge?

Quite often, but Winchester and Federal haven't been without their share of failures.

The 338 Federal didn't set The World on fire, nor have the Winchester clan of 358, 284, 225, 256 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 307, 356, or 375. While the WSSMs work well, they just never got off to a good start and have foundered.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
They did perfectly with the 416 Remington. And with the RUMS ans Short RUM'S.
They did good with the 7/08 too. I had a 300 Short RUM and I liked it a lot for a 30 caliber. I wish it was more plentyful. I would build a wild cat on it.

The 7mm-08 wasn't very successful until Layne Simpson made it his mission to promote it in much the same manner that the Jack O'Connor took the 270 as his personal project.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
They did perfectly with the 416 Remington. And with the RUMS ans Short RUM'S.
They did good with the 7/08 too. I had a 300 Short RUM and I liked it a lot for a 30 caliber. I wish it was more plentyful. I would build a wild cat on it.

The 300 Rum is reasonably successful, but the 7mm, 338, and 375 RUMs have been very poor sellers. I like the SAUMs better than the WSMs, but they are about dead, and were never really alive to start with. I think Norma or Lapua makes 300 SAUM brass. The 6.5 SAUM wildcat may prove more popular than its parents before too long.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Landrum:
How many times has Remington made huge miscalculations when introducing a new cartridge?

Quite often, but Winchester and Federal haven't been without their share of failures.

The 338 Federal didn't set The World on fire, nor have the Winchester clan of 358, 284, 225, 256 Win Mag, 264 Win Mag, 307, 356, or 375. While the WSSMs work well, they just never got off to a good start and have foundered.

All games to make you think what you have is going to leave you empty handed on "the hunt of a lifetime"....

All you need is a 50 BMG
One planet, one rifle.

Sure the 260 ( especially in a short action) or the Creedmore are nice cartridges. However, I have been always so satisfied with the 6,5x55 that I am really struggling to see the added value of the 260/6,5.

This goes on and on. If a fellow has a good 6.5, 7x57, .270 then it would be pointless to sell them and go buy a .260, 7-08, or .280. there wouldn't be anything to gain. But if he is just starting out, getting one of the newer cartridges wouldn't be a loss either.
to tell the truth, until this thread came along, I'd never heard of the 6.5 creedmore. But then, I've lived a sheltered life.

The true test of a cartridge is if it will still be made and sold after 20 years of its introduction. Many cartridges just fades away as demand is lacking not to mention straight-out flops where a cartridge was offered in a wrong configuration or an incorrect twist rate. The WSSMs come to mind as a solution to a non existent problem - the .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, and the .25 WSSM.

Some others just does not make enough difference to buy over what you own currently. Some calibers just prove not to be so popular like the .358 bore - such as the The .358 Winchester that was based on a necked up .308 Winchester case in 1955. The .350 Remington Magnum was introduced in 1965 by Remington Arms Company for the Model 600 rifle. It was later offered in the Model 660 and Model 700 rifles but was discontinued as a regular factory chambering in 1974 after a poor sales record.

Some cartridges may bear the title on being a monstrosity - While the belted .244 H&H Magnum could be considered the velocity/energy pinnacle of 6 mm/.240in cartridges, that power comes at the cost of significant muzzle blast, as well as shorter-than-average barrel life; in addition to which commercially loaded ammunition is expensive. Because of these drawbacks the cartridge never came into widespread popularity, and has never been offered as a chambering by any of the mass-market riflemakers

Pieter

I got the hots for a 6.5, but after looking around at available guns and the ballistics it occurred to me I had a couple of 250-3000s, a 6x45, a 7x57, and a 308 and they filled all the deer, sheep and antelope gaps as for as I could tell..I think a lot of other folks are well set up for small and medium bores..The Creedmore etc. will only be purchased by those that buy the hype, or of a nature to always buy something new, and perhaps a few will sell for the wives, daughters and sons for first gun, just maybe..I don't see it as an outstanding success as the best of the 6.5s, the Sweede has never set the US on fire.

The accuracy battle is between the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5×47 Lapua. Both are modern cart designs. But the Creedmoor is the much more popular hunting round. They are equally as accurate but the Creed is faster by a bit. . My hunting success is that it kills equally as well as the 06 . Just like the 6.5×55 has been doing for a century.
The great killing performance, light recoil and flat trajectory of all the mid velocity 6.5is far too good to not have it commonly chambered in all factory rifles. CZ keeps the 6.5×55 going, which is great. If Remington would pull their head out and keep up with the 260 Remington and all the other manufacturers continue along with the Creed. Hunters the world over would be benefited. . . However I'm concerned the 6.5 medium velocity round that takes the popularity cake may end up standing alone like the 270 Winchester has done with the 277 diameter bullet carts.
Far too much postulating has been done about the killing ability of similar rounds. Like the great debate of the 35 Whelan vs the 9.3×62 and 06vs 270 . 243 vs 6 mm Rem. 220 Swift vs 22/250 ect.ect.
Only those searching for a perfect cartridge will discover the 6.5 Creedmoor
Unless they have already settled on the 6.5×55, 260 Remington or 6.5×47 .

When Remington announced the .260, I immediately bought a reamer for it just because I felt it was a good, practical cartridge. While it didn't do a single thing the 6.5x55 would not do at least as well, it offered the advantage of unlimited brass availability; requiring only a FL sizing die.
I shot the 6.5x55 in "F" class with reasonable success and rifles I built for others, in 260, shot just as well.
My personal feeling was that both the 6,5x55 and the 260 were a little bit larger than necessary. I feel that a good 140 gr bullet at 2700 would do the trick and I could achieve this with a 6.5/250 (I also think one could accomplish the same with a 6.5 Jap but brass availability isn't so great. A 220 Swift necked up would probably work too).
The Creedmoor and the 6.5x47 Lapua are, to me , cartridges that provide an answer to a non-existent problem. Their sharper shoulders and minimum body taper are seen as great improvements in cartridge design which translates into better performance. I just happen to think neither attribute is a big deal.
Will the Creedmoor kill the 260? I can't imagine why it would. Just as neither cartridge will kill the 6.5x55.
Interestly enough, I have built a few lightweight 260's ( seven pounds and under, all up)and in each case the shooters commented that the recoil was on the snappy side. None of these guys had been what I consider to be pansies (up 'til now!) but they all felt the rifles kicked more than the same rifle in 7mm-08 would. Seems strange but I kind of think so too. Could be the use of slower powder in the 260 results in higher muzzle pressure so that, with each shooting 140's, the 260 does have a little more snap. Regards, Bill

Is it my imagination or is the current crop of bullets and powder far beyond what was available when the vast majority of cartridges were introduced?

My main disappointment with the new 6.5/300 Wby is that it was not a 6.5/378 Wby.

I don't think I am a candidate for a 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Remington etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:
My main disappointment with the new 6.5/300 Wby is that it was not a 6.5/378 Wby.

That's a real knee slapper, Mike.
roger

quote:

My main disappointment with the new 6.5/300 Wby is that it was not a 6.5/378 Wby.

With a long case lenght of 74mm and with a huge case that hold 137 gr water capacity this would play havoc with barrel life to get all that chemical energy though a small hole of 6.5mm.

Pieter

Hopefully we will have your answer by 2065 AD, and Im sure it won't be written in stone...Comparing calibers has never been anything more than campfire talk.

How many licks DOES it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll lollipop?

I've got a custom .260 and was looking to rebarrel to .243 but when I looked into the price and avail of 6.5 creed match ammo, it got pretty attractive. I think the creed makes a lot of sense for someone who wants to have fun shooting at long distances and does not reload. Can get good deals on .308 match, but more recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by 10generation:
I've got a custom .260 and was looking to rebarrel to .243 but when I looked into the price and avail of 6.5 creed match ammo, it got pretty attractive. I think the creed makes a lot of sense for someone who wants to have fun shooting at long distances and does not reload. Can get good deals on .308 match, but more recoil.

You can buy a 6.5 Creedmoor and a case of Hornady ammo and go have fun shooting at long distances, confident that if you're not hitting your targets, the problem isn't the ammo.

Pieter.
Only time will tell us if either one is losing or gaining in popularity. A good way to gage any trends is to observe it over time via online retail ammo offerings. I expect dealers stock what they can sell generally. Try a search for each at ammoseek (I have no affiliation) for current offerings from various dealers. They show a listings total near the top of the page for each caliber. Currently there are more than double the .260REM offerings than for 6.5 Creedmoor. A year from now, who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by Pieter die 4de:
We often hear that the 260 Rem should have been designed like the Creedmoor?
Looking at the two cases, the notion makes absolute sense.
But, will the 6.5 Creedmoor kill the 260 Rem?
I suspect marketing plays as big role as rifle offerings and the availability of factory ammo.
I am curious to hear all opnions on this subject and what the future holds for these two cartridges.

Pieter

Enough about the Creedmoor. It's the most overhyped cartridge since the Blackout. I'll take a 260 Rem over one everyday of the week just because I'm sick of hearing about the Creedmoor.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Enough about the Creedmoor. It's the most overhyped cartridge since the Blackout. I'll take a 260 Rem over one everyday of the week just because I'm sick of hearing about the Creedmoor.

That's right, the 260 has 5% more case capacity, 1.2% more velocity potential (about 35fps), and is slightly less versatile with VLD bullets in short action magazines. Let's all shut up about the creedmoor, because it just sucks!
On a more serious note, I see no practical difference between the two as hunting rounds, which is what most of us are interested in, and long range accuracy potential isn't different enough to get all that excited about unless you are a true competitor. Therefore, I like hearing about both, and would gladly hunt or informally target shoot with either.

quote:

Accuratereloading.com The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hop To Forum Categories Rifles Hop To Forums Small Calibers Will the 6.5 Creedmoor kill the 260 Re

I'm holding out for the 6mm Creemoor or might just get a 6.5 Creedmoor AI. Or maybe a 7mm Creedmore. Or hell, the 30 Creed is appealing. Or how about a 26 Nosler Creed Winchester Dasher Ackley Improved A Square?

Jiminycrickets...

Phuqq it all, give me a 270. Or maybe a 30-06. No, 270. Wait, definitely a 30-06.

But I kinda like my 270. If I like my 270 can I keep my 270??

these days there are hardly any reasons for new cartridges that replicate ones we already have.

Other, than selling new rifles to people who believe the stuff they read in magazines; and subscribe to the theory that a quarter-inch shorter bolt throw or an action that is that same amount shorter is totally marvelous.

Somebody has to pay for all that progress, and the firearms manufacturers have (they hope) figured out a way to make depreciation a marketing plus...

One argument was that these Short Magnums could be made on a shorter action and thus be cheaper, the weight saving, the better powder burn and the shorter bolt throw, etc. However their ammo cost more and are harder to get in many places. They punt higher velocities too, but all of them run at higher pressure levels and so velocity gains (which is immaterial at best) relate to higher pressures.

The Winchester Super Short Magnums, or WSSM’s are even more off the wall in appearance with their fat stubby looks and I see no benefit at all in them.

Pieter

The WSSMs have been completely abandoned by Winchester.

Yeah, Nosler hired the son of a bitch and brought out the 26...

Most people can't shoot the difference in the 260 and the Creed. Surely not enough to keep a cartridge alive. Both will keep kicking, but neither will be the 7mm Rem or .243 of the sales world. The 25 WSSM is actually a fantastic performer in a very short, handy, light gun. Not a 25-06, but a bit more than the Bob even at 'normal' pressures. I wish I had bought a thousand brass when they were trying to give em away.

I am leaning towards this 6.5

http://www.weatherby.com/produ...5-300-wby-mag-4.html

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
The WSSMs have been completely abandoned by Winchester.

The folks at Winchester/Olin in East Alton, IL, tell me that they are gearing up for a run of ammo and brass for all three WSSM cartridges starting in March 2016.

quote:

The Creedmoor and the Lapua 6.5x47 both work well in a short action but the .260 is more suited to a long action.

Depending on your rifles throat length...

You can also get a useful increase in magazine length for the long 140gr VLD's by fitting a Wyatts extended magazine box.

This is precisely what i have done with my 6.5mm SAUM, which is essentially the same length as the .260 Remington. I can get the 140gr Berger seated so that the base of the bullet is a fraction above the shoulder line. If I was to use the standard Remington short action mag box, the bullet seats much deeper in the case.

Amazing. I've owned several .260's over several years and I haven't spent the first moment angsting over the magazine length. Everything I've shot with them fell down dead so I guess they didn't get the memo neither. My furtherest shot was a measured 250 yards using a cartridge loaded with a 140gr Core Lokt.

I bought a Howa 1500 Cerakote Kryptek last week and it supposed to be here on Friday.

I bought six boxes of 6.5 creedmoor ammo and I am going to order another 20 when I figure out what it likes, price wise we are pretty close to reloading on factory Hornady case price ammo.

My reloading room is in boxes until our plans are made. So it doesn't make much sense to set up.

I'll post a report of it when I am shooting it.

Geeze, another worthless, antagonistic thread. Don't care, got mine. Killed deer, caribou and enough varmints with my .260s. Splitting hairs guys....


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