Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load?

Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

I have taken 2 whitetail doe with the 223.

Both with a Steyr AUG.
One was with a Hornady 60gr HP reload, the other with an Eagle [IMI from Israel] 63gr SP.

It was a controled test in that I was careful to place the shots in the right place, both being chest shots.

Both deer were DRT.

Still I do not feel the 223 is a "deer" gun.

A 243 is a much better choice IMHO.

I loaded some 55gr nosler zippidoos for my brother-in law for his boys to use on deer.
The youngest one shot a doe at about 110 yards,bang flop.
He told me he used the rest on coyotes and such.Needless to say,he don't get any more of those to shoot.I may try some 60gr partitions some day for deer.

quote:

55gr nosler zippidoos

I have a full box of these.....are they a heavier jacket suitable for larger game?

Wow! What a novel subject!

I agree stonecreek; I'm also wondering about experiences with taking large game such as Elk and big Bear at say, 700 yards or more with needle shooters. . . . . . .

I've taken 4 smaller mulie bucks with a .223 all were one shot kills at ranges from about 125 to 345 yards all lazered. The area that I was hunting in requires only 2 point or less bucks.

Not that hard with a hot stepping load out of a good grouping varmint rig with lots of varmint practice.

(6) bucks, (10) does, (4) hogs and (1) nilgai cow this year with 70gr TSX loaded to 2800 fps. All one shot kills.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Wow! What a novel subject!

Not all of us have been around here long enough for 7000 + posts.

How many animals? Don't know but a bunch. The 65gr Sierra works really well.

Vapo,they seem to be a lot tougher than the regular cnc bullets.The front sheds a little and the rear is a solid chunk of jacket metal.
They shoot real good in the 223 howa that I have.

60 grain Nosler Partitions, 64 grain Winchester Power-Points, and 65 grain Sierra Pro-Hunter will all work well on whitetail size critters.

Here's some pics of a smallish whitetail buck I killed using the 55grn Sierra GameKing SP at a range of no more than 30yds. Ive posted about it elswhere I think I even wrote a bullet review for midway

quote:

I fired twice if for no other reason than I try to anchor the animal right there and will follow up shoot any chance I get no matter what cartridge I use

My first shot's placment for whatever reason wasn't too great striking high and farther forward than I would have liked. After being hit this deer jumped what had to be 10 feet. straight up and got about half a stride away before I shot him again (one of the benefits to the AR) my second shot was apparently a CNS hit to the neck because his next and last move was to make a rather spectacular face plant into the creek (splash!)

even though my first shot was kinda poor it's placement it did a great job of showing what this bullet can do. It went through one leg, shoulder, ribcage on both sides and ended up somewhere greater than the depth of 3/4 of my index finger but less than exiting into the off shoulder. The neck shot was through and through with a good ragged dime sized exit. (pictured)

The bloody pic shows the bullet's ENTRANCE in tho the chest cavity

+/- 8 hogs with my mini 14.

I load some for the son of a friend of mine in Texas. In the last 7 years he has taken 10 bucks all but 1 were 1 shot kills and that buck was hit well and humped up and tipped over at the second shot. All were killed with his bolt action .223 Ruger shooting 52 and 53 grain Barnes X or Triple Shocks. They are very impressed with this combo, most shots were 125 yards and under, no recovered bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load?

Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

I've never Killed a Hog or a Deer with a 22cal of any size case. The reason is because any of those I'd consider Killing all weigh more than 50#.

Definitely an Ethical and Ballistic Knowledge question.

I know lots of guys down in Fl that hunt Wild hogs every weekend with a 22-230 and 223. They always take head shots on them too...

Up north in WV the 22-230 and 223 is becoming a more and more popular whitetail hunting rifle. The guys are finding out they can shoot just as far with that little round and carry around ALOT less weight all day walking up and down those mountain sides. And as long as you can take a good shot and dont be a newbie and gut shoot an animal even a 17 HMR will kill a deer. But of course I would never recommend this.

223 is good enough for the military to hunt people with in the mountains of Afgan. it should be good enough to hunt whitetail and anything thin skinned on this planet.

I also have a friend in WV who hunts with nothing but a 22 Mag. of course he hunts to survive, not becuase of the sport of it. His trusty 22 Mag has probably killed more whitetail than half of the people on this board combined have killed in a lifetime. But that is what he has to do to survive every winter in the harsh mountain tops of WV.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:


Definitely an Ethical and Ballistic Knowledge question.

My 100's of clean kills on animals over 50#'s would disagree with that statement.

Perry

If your going to shoot animals with that small of a caliber, you need to use a bullet that has controlled expansion. You need as much penetration as possible to carry that energy as deep as possible into the tissue. A varmint bullet will not exactly do well...

Hot Core--Not to flame, your opening statement that you have never done it says you have no experience. I agree with Perry--I have seen many whitetails killed with .22 centerfires and they work fine. In Texas most of the land is private and usually you have to pay a pretty steep lease fee to hunt. I am very lucky that one of my sons in law inherited a large place from his grandmother. I know all the guys that hunt there and what they use. There have been a bunch taken with .222, .223 and 22-250. Many of these were with my reloads and contrary to what you read here all the time, premium bullets were not used. Same with .243. Probably even more taken with .243 than with the .22's. In the .22's the bullet I use is 55 grain and in .243 the 100 grain and both are the cheaper bulk packed Winchesters. Not using premium bullets is no surprize. I know lots of hunters and percentage wise few reload. Most go to Wally world and buy whatever is on sale----and they get their deer.

quote:

Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

To just answer the question of the thread, I do not have any experience with the .223 on game, but I do with the .22-250.

I have personally shot 2 pronghorn antelope and one or two muley does with my .22-250. I have also shot one small muley buck and two muley does with a .22 LR. All of these animals were one shot kills.

Last month two friends and I hunted exotics in SW Texas. Both of my friends used the .22-250 that one of them brought. Their kill was 3 blackbucks, one scimitar horned oryx, and one addax with a total of 5 shots. When George shot his oryx, neither the guide or the landowner could believe it was shot with a .22-250. They thought he was using a 7mm mag or something similar. His ammo was factory loaded Hornady 53 gr soft points.

That friend of mine regularly hunts almost all of Montana's big game animals with his .22-250. Last year his total was one black bear, a 13" pronghorn, a large 4 pt muley buck and a 5 pt bull elk. All were one shot kills. That's typically how his hunting has been with his .22-250 for the last 40 years.

Again, I'm not advocating the .22 calibers as a big game cartridge, and though I've shot some animals with them, they are not my first choice as a big game cartridge. I'm only reporting game I've seen or know have been taken with .22's.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load?

Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

I've never Killed a Hog or a Deer with a 22cal of any size case. The reason is because any of those I'd consider Killing all weigh more than 50#.

Definitely an Ethical and Ballistic Knowledge question.

Hotsh#t at his very best!!!!!! Ignorance on parade. Question: Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load? Hotsh#t's answer: Duh, ..... I've never Killed a Hog or a Deer with a 22cal of any size case. But that's not stopping me about pontificating (Hotsh#t, I know that's a big word for you with your experience at the plant but hang in there little boy) and seeing himself as the suppository of all knowledge of .22 center fires.

Pitiful and predictable but ya gotta feel a little embarrassed for the little feller, Don't you.

Guiding words to live by when dealing with Hotsh#t. He is always wrong but thinks everyone is interested in his lack of EXPERIENCE and opinions that reveal his inner frustrations. I've tried in the past to collect funds for his treatments...........but nobody cared.

3 doe

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have taken 2 whitetail doe with the 223.

It was a controled test in that I was careful to place the shots in the right place, both being chest shots.

Still I do not feel the 223 is a "deer" gun.

A 243 is a much better choice IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Wow! What a novel subject!

I did a control test too, and took a 308 hunting instead of the 223. Worked real well for me. One shot for each dead deer. Eight shots - seven dead hogs. I missed one running through the woods, but when it stopped I got it. It's amazing how they just fall over like that when you hit um in the right place with a real deer rifle. I'll probably need more testing before I reach a conclusion about the 223, so I think I'll take my 308 hunting more often.

A guy should be open minded about these things, so I'm willing to make the sacrifice of time and effort to compare my results using a 308 to my results with a 223. So far, it's about 25 to zero, and counting.

KB

Wow Kabluey how open minded of you

I started both my sons shooting a NEF 223 loaded with factory Winchester 64 gr Power Points, and I can't remember the exact number, but everything they shot died quickly. Like has been said, I don't consider a 223 as a "deer" caliber, but I just acquired a new to me 223 and am gearing up to reload some "deer and hog" loads to use when I am just out riding around on my 4 wheeler.

I am going to try 65 gr Sierras and 70 gr Speers first and see how they shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Wow Kabluey how open minded of you

Open minded enough to learn to not directly insult you guys for using a 223 on big game.

KB

We've been through this before, In a good and sensible shooters hands, the 223 is certainly capable of taking medium game. Where it all breaks down is when you have the quartering shot at some distance on a good size animal. If I see a nice rack, I know my 6.5 x 55 or my 270 kills them dead no matter what the angle and how much thigh, loin and vitals I have to penetrate. Under those conditions the little pea shooter may not get it done...and anyone who's honest about it has to admit that. I go hunting with the weapon that is gonna get it done under all conditions.

The .223 is fine on deer sized game as long as you wait for the right shot and for me I use premium bullets.

I think a lot a of the disagreement comes from the type hunting we do. For me, I hunt on family land 5 min. from the house. The deer population is large and the season is long. I'll take a .223 and see deer most every time I go. If I don't feel good about a shot I don't take it. No pressure, nothing lost. I'll go home and try it again another time. Using this mindset my kill ratio with the .223 is 100% and I haven't had to pass on shots too many times.

My situation isn't unique but it's different from the guy that has to pay to hunt or travels long distances to hunt. This guy doesn't want to have to pass on a shot because the animal won't turn the right direction for him and I understand that 100 percent. He has too much time and or money tied up in the trip. If I was in this situation I probably would take a bigger gun too. I don't think the .223 has ever been considered "the ultimate cartridge." That said, it takes nothing away from the .223's ability to cleanly take deer sized animals. It does and will.


Terry

been done alot .. Say, don't the Inuit in Alaska like the min14? Aren't caribu larger than deer?

This seems to be the hottest subject in hunting forums, go over to www.24hourcampfire.com and it has been beaten to death. I havent used my .223 on deer yet, but from the pictures ive seen, and with premium bullets it isnt a stunt. A 55gr Barnes TSX will penetrate a deer like no tomorrow. I bought a box or Remington ultra core-lokt 62gr bonded core loads and wanted to shoot a doe this year for a trial but it just didnt happen. I have no doubts that this load will kill a deer deader than a door nail....

I've not done it personally.

I do believe that the .223 loaded with the right bullet and the proper shot placement would be fine.

A friend of mine who owns quite a large ranch in northern New Mexico full of elk has a nephew who drew an antelope tag. He is small and young without a lot of time behind a rifle. My buddy thought his .223 might work out well and asked me about bullet choices. I told him, as you all have stated, to look for a Partition, Barnes X, or the Winchester Power Point. He found some factory 64 grain Power Points.

At 200 yards it was a one shot kill even though the shot placement was a little too far back.

Personally, as a kid of 19 years old, I killed an antelope at 573 paces with my .22-250 with a rest off of the rag top door of my Jeep with factory 60 grain ammo; I don't remember the brand. I was young and stupid but it worked out; I would never do it again with the better ballistic knowledge I now have.

If I had to, I would use the .22 cals with premium bullets at reasonable ranges and angles for the game of which your topic speaks, but there are much more responsible choices for the animal's, the sport's, and your conscience's sake.

If you don't have the ideal shot--you don't take it. The old bs theory that a bigger gun--especially a magnum will compensate--just aint true. A bad shot gives bad results. I have set on a stand many times with my grandson and a deer is in view--and could be hit, but presentation isn't right, so my grandson waits. If it becomes right he drops it. If not and the deer walks, so be it. Heck yes I'm proud of him. Does he get results? You bet. This year he took 3 with the .308 I gave him about 5 years ago. These 3 increased an already large number he has taken with it. Last year I gave him a .222 and he decided to use it one day. Dropped a spike buck in it's tracks. This was a 55 grain Winchester bulk packed bullet. He is only 20 but a very seasoned hunter.

Hey Carpetman, I've never seen you take a shot at anyone, so "offense" never crossed my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
If you don't have the ideal shot--you don't take it. The old bs theory that a bigger gun--especially a magnum will compensate--just aint true. A bad shot gives bad results. ...

Gotta disagree with you here.

I can think of hundreds of shots that I've taken which resulted in clean 1-shot Kills using a Partition in a 7mmRemMag or a 300WinMag that the Inadequate Cartridge shooter "should have" passed on, just as you mentioned. Then again, if it was a HUGE Trophy Buck, many of the guys who don't know enough to use an Adequate Cartridge, would probably self-justify "trying" a shot anyhow. Pitiful!

To simplify it, a Quartering Away shot opportunity does not leave the Inadequate Cartridges any chance for a clean Kill on a respectable size animal. Not enough horse power to get the penetration needed.

Even a well placed shot with an Adequate Cartridge does not always result in an immediate drop-in-their-tracks Kill. Then when it is time to hone the Tracking skill, the nice LARGE Exits offered by the Adequate Cartridges make all the difference in the world for a great Blood Trail. It is easy to see the difference between even a 243Win and a 7mm-08, when enough Kills are made for it to be relevant. And LARGER just means an even better trail.

So Carpetman, we just disagree.

Even with identical shot placement, anyone that sez a larger, heavy for calibre bullet will not bring game to bag that shouldn't even be shot at with a .224 bullet needs to get out more.
I have to admit that the better technology and weight in the .224 bullets, in a proper bolt rifle, probably puts them on a par with the .243 when it comes to killing 100# WTs. It's just not my cup of tea.

Hot Core---Yes we disagree. The theory you advance is nothing but a wag (wild ass guess)since you cant go back and try that same shot on that same animal with a smaller cartridge. So it will always be a wag. The only certainty that I can come up when shooting animals---you dont know until you have pulled the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Carpetman, I've never seen you take a shot at anyone, so "offense" never crossed my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
If you don't have the ideal shot--you don't take it. The old bs theory that a bigger gun--especially a magnum will compensate--just aint true. A bad shot gives bad results. ...

Gotta disagree with you here.

I can think of hundreds of shots that I've taken which resulted in clean 1-shot Kills using a Partition in a 7mmRemMag or a 300WinMag that the Inadequate Cartridge shooter "should have" passed on, just as you mentioned. Then again, if it was a HUGE Trophy Buck, many of the guys who don't know enough to use an Adequate Cartridge, would probably self-justify "trying" a shot anyhow. Pitiful!

To simplify it, a Quartering Away shot opportunity does not leave the Inadequate Cartridges any chance for a clean Kill on a respectable size animal. Not enough horse power to get the penetration needed.

Even a well placed shot with an Adequate Cartridge does not always result in an immediate drop-in-their-tracks Kill. Then when it is time to hone the Tracking skill, the nice LARGE Exits offered by the Adequate Cartridges make all the difference in the world for a great Blood Trail. It is easy to see the difference between even a 243Win and a 7mm-08, when enough Kills are made for it to be relevant. And LARGER just means an even better trail.

So Carpetman, we just disagree.

As one who regularly hunts and kills with a 70gr TSX out of a 5.56 I completely disagree and not only in theory but fact.

A quartering away shot is about perfect to wipe out all the vitals and anchor an offside shoulder. The only bone in the way is a rib and you are almost immediately into lungs. Your statement begs the question of how well you know anatomy...and it is a rhetorical one at that due to the fact you already made the statement.
While you may not get an exit game is typically no more that 15-25 yards away. On the contrary we shot a 180 pound buck last monday quartering away, perfect shot placement, with a 7-08 that went 30-40 yards. We must need a bigger gun huh?

Perry

quote:

A quartering away shot is about perfect to wipe out all the vitals and anchor an offside shoulder. The only bone in the way is a rib and you are almost immediately into lungs.

About 2 years ago, I shot the biggest muley I have ever taken. I was geared-up before the hunt with a Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker, Leupold 6-18 power with a long range varmint reticle and 180 grain Accubonds at 3100 fps. We drew tags in an area where long shots at big bucks were a possibility. We had been doing a lot of practicing, checking the dope for the scopes out to 1000 yards.

The morining I killed the deer he was quartering away at 25 yards; bow range. After I fired, the buck kicked like a bronco and took off down into the trees out of sight. I was astonished and thought there was no way I could have missed. I was expecting a "bang-flop" at that range. I checked the area where he was standing and it was a blood bath all the way to where he gave it up about 75 yards away.

So even with a rifle caliber suited to the game they'll go a long way.

If you don't have or can't borrow a caliber suited to big game and you have to use your prarie dog gun, then you best be choosing premium bullets like the TSX, Partition, etc....

quote:

Originally posted by perry:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Carpetman, I've never seen you take a shot at anyone, so "offense" never crossed my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
If you don't have the ideal shot--you don't take it. The old bs theory that a bigger gun--especially a magnum will compensate--just aint true. A bad shot gives bad results. ...

Gotta disagree with you here.

I can think of hundreds of shots that I've taken which resulted in clean 1-shot Kills using a Partition in a 7mmRemMag or a 300WinMag that the Inadequate Cartridge shooter "should have" passed on, just as you mentioned. Then again, if it was a HUGE Trophy Buck, many of the guys who don't know enough to use an Adequate Cartridge, would probably self-justify "trying" a shot anyhow. Pitiful!

To simplify it, a Quartering Away shot opportunity does not leave the Inadequate Cartridges any chance for a clean Kill on a respectable size animal. Not enough horse power to get the penetration needed.

Even a well placed shot with an Adequate Cartridge does not always result in an immediate drop-in-their-tracks Kill. Then when it is time to hone the Tracking skill, the nice LARGE Exits offered by the Adequate Cartridges make all the difference in the world for a great Blood Trail. It is easy to see the difference between even a 243Win and a 7mm-08, when enough Kills are made for it to be relevant. And LARGER just means an even better trail.

So Carpetman, we just disagree.

As one who regularly hunts and kills with a 70gr TSX out of a 5.56 I completely disagree and not only in theory but fact.

A quartering away shot is about perfect to wipe out all the vitals and anchor an offside shoulder. The only bone in the way is a rib and you are almost immediately into lungs. Your statement begs the question of how well you know anatomy...and it is a rhetorical one at that due to the fact you already made the statement.
While you may not get an exit game is typically no more that 15-25 yards away. On the contrary we shot a 180 pound buck last monday quartering away, perfect shot placement, with a 7-08 that went 30-40 yards. We must need a bigger gun huh?

Perry

Perry,

I agree with you 101%.

In archery the preferred shot is a quartering away shot as it opens up the chest cavity in the most advantageous way as you mentioned. Ask any bow hunter or go into any archery shop and ask them the question of their favorite angle for a shot with archery gear and you will get this answer. From your comment it's obvious that you already know this. The ideal target is to enter the body cavity then go through the diaphragm, through the lungs, and try for the opposite shoulder. I've taken around 35 critters with a bow and if the arrow is in this place it's a matter of 15-20 seconds and the animal is down.

Interesting isn't for a guy that claims over a 1,000 deer kills does not have this understanding of anatomy on deer sized game????? Pitiful. Maybe he has others cleaning out his game because he has no knowledge of anatomy!!!!!!! Actually this is to be expected from Hotsh#t. He pontificates without any experience and then reveals his limited lack of knowledge on the subject at hand. I've come to think that most of what he posts is fantasy. Beware and be warned.

What's with all the pointless, personal attacks?