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You certainly are entitled to your opinion on what your rifles are for. Shame you don't understand that others are entitled to their opinions also. That is especially the case when those others have experience to back up their opinions instead of just an opinion. Larry Gibson | |||
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Yes, you're right. Shame on me! I'm not sure where I said others aren't entitled to an opinion, but what else would you expect from "Tojo"?!!! Everyone is entitled to be a goober if they so choose as well. I don't know why, but I choose not to. Silly Me, huh? | |||
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Gooberism - it's a choice, just like opinionism - unless of course you're from Georgia, in which case you're born that way, and thus excused, until choices are made and opinions are formed as an adult. Say, I was wondering how many have caught bass from a jet ski? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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ATTENTION ALL BOARD MEMBERS! I will be creating a new identity and sceen name. The new name that I will post under will be "Tojitler" I (AKA Tojo) will only use this screen name to post on threads that I agree with Hot Core (AKA Hitler). Although I have not broached the subject in a PM to either party, I am hoping to join forces with HC and Kabluewy as a consolidated "voice of sanity" posting on threads where members advocate shooting anything bigger than a coyote with a .223 Stand by as we will have to have some kind of conference or "summit" before this alliance, or "Axis of Ignorance" as krochus has called it, can be official. I feel that the addition of Kabluewy to the axis, the level of ignorance will be lessened which sucks for you goobers. You know who you are. If all the parties agree and the axis is formed, we will find evil doers and bring them to mental justice | |||
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O M G, I'll have to think about this one !!! It's hard to turn down a good invite, and of course it's flattering and an honor.  As you know, my style is to reserve the Perhaps we can form a limited partnership, and reserve the priviledge of dissolution on certain subjects.  Let's think on it. Growing old has few benefits, but one which we hope for, and seek (hopefully) is wisdom. It has begun to seem to me that ignorance has distinctions, and one side of that is intentional ignorance, which some goobers enhance by actually being proud of their choices, and embellish with justifications and rationalization. Nevertheless, ignorance is still what it is, regardless of embellishment, and regardless of how much “experience” one has at it. Now, by wise I'm not referring to making a different choice re the use of 223 on deer. That's a no-brainer. I'm thinking that it's wise to know that it's a waste of time - too big of a mission - to take on stamping out or even alleviating gooberism re this subject - 223 on medium game. It's too entrenched, too justified, too rationalized, too arrogant, and goobers aren't known for listening skill and openmindedness. The best we can hope for is have a little fun with it - changing anything - hopeless. Only laws can do that. That's what laws are for - to help goobers make the right choice, that they can't seem to quite get there on their own, given the individual choice. Now, given the numbers of people those comments pissed off, are you sure you still want to be in allegance with me? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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It's just me being absurd. I will continue to illustrate the absurd by being absurd, especially when the topic is absurd. I hope folks were able to laugh a little no matter which side of this issue they're on. I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, even when I started the goober thing. If I did, please accept my apology. Now that that's out of the way, back to the front. | |||
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Uh-Hu, I see how ya are. When it gets prickley, run. I see about how far the allegance would have lasted. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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What is really pathetic is when people Brag about the Super-Duper Premium, Heavy-for-Caliber amazing 70gr tsx(to hear them Blow-Hard about it) used in the 223Rem. It is such an Inadequate Cartridge for Deer that it does not have enough Horse Power to always make an EXIT! Actually..., Super-Duper PITIFUL!!! ----- Gotta admit though I didn't really think ANYONE was so totally STUPID as to use a 55gr 223Rem on an Elk. Then I see of course gibson is that STUPID and apparently someone else as well. Come to think of it, I'll call  on both of those idiotic posts.PATHETIC!!! | |||
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Did you read that straight off obama's teleprompter? Are you his speechwriter? You guys little "axis of ignorance" or "triad of trolls" whatever it is, need to get into liberal politics. Maybe you already are. Are you already wearing a che t shirt? All you need is massive govt funding for a nonexistent problem. This way the funding will never fix the problem because it never existed in the first plate. Then parade on camera some gut shot deer that you flock shoot. The MSM will gobble it up and you'll be national heroes.  | |||
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g m, that thing about the law was especially for you. Glad you picked up on it. Perhaps we can agree that in states where it's against the law to shoot deer with a 223, there are no goobers, only criminals. Thus, laws are effective goober eradication. Do we not agree on that? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Did you ever vote for a liberal you didn't like?  | |||
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gunmaker, Got questions for ya. Does being proud of my choice to not use a 223 on deer, and thus having no actual trigger experience with such use, make me a goober or just ethical? And if that makes me a goober, then when did goobers become concerned with ethics? And if the law allows me to pick my nose and scratch my arsh at the same time - in public, and I choose not to exercise my rights in that regard, would I be out of line in thinking those who do are perhaps goobers? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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liberals also like to stick names on people like goober. Too funny Now my sides are hurting from laughing so hard. The score as I see it still stands: Deer hunters using 223 = 100 axis of ignorance = 0 You haven't even come close to scoring yet. | |||
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I can think of other names besides goober, but obviously I don't want to be offensive. And there are a lot worse things to be than liberal. I'm glad you are laughing. Then we're all having fun.  Heck, if you were from Oklahoma, I'd call you Ghomer. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Since I have no experience in the matter, I'll have to take your word on it. However, I do have an exceedingly intense opinion on the subject. | |||
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No being a liberal that is for Obama is about as bad as it gets. I have killed every deer, hog and antelope I have shot at with the 223 with one shot. Some ran a few yards. With that record do I think the 223 is the perfect deer round? No I do not, that is 7x57 territory. Do I believe I can kill medium game with my 223 rifles? Yes I do. Do I give a rats ass what the pissing match jerks think? No! Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I like that one. That's good. As for me, I'm an equal oppoturnist. There are some things I like and dislike about liberals and conservatives - about equally. For one thing - I like dislike liberals because they are generally liberal, and I dislike conservatives generally because they are conservative. There's a difference - if you read the sentence closely. But mostly, I don't worry about either, because there ain't much I can do the change either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Don't worry Kabluewy, I'm as loyal as the day is long. I'm afraid you'll have to pick up some slack for me and handle my light work (goobers) for a while. I'm away from a computer and using a damn phone now. I see how the goober vultchers are, swooping in when I leave them an opening. Goober boys, Tell us some bang-flop stories of how humane the .223 treats deer (no head shots allowed) I've already disproved your claims of "if our boys in the military use it, it must be great for deer" crap. They hate it saying it won't put the bad guys down. Deer are stronger than men. I have a friend that was almost killed by a wounded mule deer. Gored him in the thigh, took him to the ground and tore the hell out of him before he could recover his rifle and save himself. Almost bled to death. I saw multi-caliber testing on the milatary channel. They shot various calibers into 1/2" sheetrock constructed walls. Most passed but the .223 only went through one sheet before failing. It's design is to wound and I'm sure you won't tell us those stories. | |||
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Got any sheetrock recipes? I hope your buddy is ok. I'm sure if he was shooting a 223, you would have posted that on page 1. You're little axis of ignorance still can't score a single point. Score's now: Deer hunters using 223 = 125 axis of ignorance = -2 Sorry, I had to deduct a few from your score after KB used 2 links to wiki to try and make an "impartial" political point. wiki............ I laughed so hard. . . . . oops!  | |||
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gunmaker, How do you like my new motto? I wrote it in your honor. No only do you pee in public, but I'll bet you grope yourself, fart, pick and scratch too.  Remember, they say if you shake it more than once, then you're playing with yourself. Now that I think about it, since it's in your honor, perhaps I should have said "helping gropers make the right choices". KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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James, In all seriousness, you've not contributed anything to the argument here except personal teasing. Are you a four year old or is that as far as your cerebellum has developed in the adult cranium it sloshes around in? If you really think the .223 is adequate for big game, which by all definitions deer are, why don't you tell us why? "Adequate" to me means the cartridge will humanely and reliably kill deer when the vitals are hit. A .22 LR is not adequate even though it will definitely kill deer if you "pick your shots", "limit the range" and your Indian name is "Tracking Dog", just like the .223. I've posted two websites by guys who've done the work. Kinetic energy isn't unmeasurable voodoo. I've shared the way guys on the ground feel about the round who use it in situations in which their life depends...they would rather anchor the ragheads with a 7.62 than watch them run off after being shot with the prarie dog gun. Can't any on the pro-.223 side contribute something except hearsay? Support your argument with | |||
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UH, Scuzze me R, but ole boy I think you're gonna get into trouble with this one. I'll have to look back, but I think James for one, and there were several others, who gave more than mere hearsay. They gave personal experience. I may be reminded unfavorably of this later, but I think the personal testimony has to mostly be considered as reliable as the source, and frankly for the most part, I'm not going to disregard it, or automatically consider it untruthful, on the face of it. This kind of debate just isn't worth that. Now, I still don't agree with them, but my argument is stymied somewhat, in all honesty, because they've been there / done it. That may seem like a flip-flop, but at the moment, that's my quick response to that. I say this, because in a real debate, you have to be fair. You have to be accurate with your words too. Hearsay ain't for the most part what these pro-223 guys have been talking about. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Posting Pictures of piles of dead .223 shot deer proves nothing about the adequacy of the cartridge. Piles have been killed with smaller calibers too, the shooters "experienced it" but it doesn't mean the cartridge was adequate. I'm sure it was unpleasant for both the "hunter" and the game. Mostly for the game. I'm starting to think goobers enjoy watching their game die a slow, agonizing death. It's the only reason I can think of why such a caliber would be chosen. They also probably have posters of Michael Vick over their reloading bench. | |||
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OK, go on, I'll let this take its course, and help if I can.  KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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This is, by definition, hearsay | |||
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as an aside, the fantastic combat varmint cartridge and it's equally sorry POS rifle, the M16, are quietly being replaced in Afganistan by the M14 and the .308. This despite the fact that there are still droolers in the Pentagon stating, "if it'll kill a deer, it'll kill a man." Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I think there is a misunderstanding. Maybe it's me. http://www.google.com/search?q...d=ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB_en ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Yes. Let me clarify. Just saying you have killed deer with a .223 and it was fine= passing information by word of mouth. Part may be untrue. Thus it is hearsay | |||
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R, I wish you had used a different word. It's probably just me. I went through a horrendus court deal, divorce and much more, and it's still not resolved, where the term and concept of hearsay was a major factor, in the primary case and the appeal. That word to me is like fingernails on the chalk board, a bad and sharp and sudden tooth ache - you get my drift. Here's my take on it: First person - saying he shot deer with a 223 = fact. He's either telling the truth, or not, but to say he's not, it's best to have evidence that it's a lie - hard to do, so best avoided. If you call a first person a lier, with no evidence, based on a hunch, then it's your credability that suffers, not his. Same person - saying it was fine = subjective evaluation, partially based on factual observation, and partially based on subjective inclusion of fact and simultaneous exclusion of fact. (filtering of facts) Herein there's opening for debate. Same person - saying the deer ran 50 feet, fell over, and it (the event) was fine - is both two factual statments and one subjective evaluation. First person - passing on this info is simply that. No problem so far. Happens all the time. Take it for what it's worth, consider the source. It's a beginning for discussion, perhaps opening for debate on what does it mean. Second person - hearing that info (not witnessing or doing it) and repeating it to another (say) is hearsay. Presenting it as true or fact by second person is bad hearsay. Expecting another (third) person to draw conclusions from hearsay or inferences from it is where the problem is with hearsay. If a person says that another said -- such and such -- then the listener can take it for what it's worth - hearsay. That's what makes this argument so convoluted. First you have guys with first-hand experience, which to them is more valid that what the technical data, math and logic says should be the results - consistantly. The disparity is where the argument lies. The results shouldn't logically be as consistant as these guys make out that it is. Therefore, I think there is something missing. I think the whole truth is elusive. I think those guys with poor results just aren't telling about it, and I think the guys with great results are damn good shots, and exercise restraint, and some just aren't disclosing all. Take James for example - down deep we know he's a good shot, but he's also suspected to be a groper. Uh - I meant to say goober.KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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The 223 deerslayers have pulled the goalie long ago and you still can't score. Is that funny haha or funny strange?  Not as much fun when the fish you're trolling for spits the hook and laughs at you. I hate it when that happens. Want me to tell you a story about the one that got away?  | |||
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Yea, that's what we've wanted all along. The truth. And I'm not talking about fish either. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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You dudes have waaaay too much time on your hands......  | |||
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Thanks wassbeeman!
Exactly Judas....err.. Brutus.. DAMN... I mean, Kabluewy! It's looks like you've fallen to the dark side KB. For one thing, I think those guys with poor results just aren't telling about it, and I think the guys with great results are damn good shots, and exercise restraint, and some just aren't disclosing all. | |||
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Would you rather have me chewing on ya, or the goobers? Just trying to maintain our argument, by keeping you straight. Stay on that military track. I think ya got something there. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I don't have any experience of deer that didn't go down with one shot. DO YOU? BTW, that's a loaded question.  here you go. Although I think it was shot with a less effective cartridge than a 223. Do you think rca would consider someone who hunts deer with a 223 a friend? I hope he's ok.
Now the line's wrapped around your motor and the guys on shore are pointing and laughing too.  | |||
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To answer your question, yea, but you chose selective listening or put your goober muff on the first time I said it, so why should it be any different now? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Did you shoot it with a 223? | |||
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Of course not. What - you think I'm unethical? No, my hunting buddy did the shooting. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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I'll give you one thing gunmaker, Your posts have definitely become more funny, creative, and entertaining! Good on ya! This whole thread has made my attitude better in life! I'm having fun with the back and forth. Oh boy. Look what I've done now. Every time my posts turn from "the attack mode", the goobers sense an opening and start posting things that have nothing to do with supporting their argument I'll be standing by...waiting for the next colorful post talking about fish hooks, boats, elk hides, divorces, experience and opinion, and definitions of words we should already know. I could make a better argument FOR the .223 than any of you knuckle-draggers. | |||
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