so i was thinking about getting a big bore non magnum gun, and looking at a friends 375 winchester lever gun got me thinking..
first, could you run a 30-06 case through a die to squeeze it down and form a belt at the base, in hopes to cut the case at the base of the shoulder and form a semi straight walled case with a 375? (06 brass is easy to get, thats where the idea came from)

i just happen to be looking in a shotgun news and found a section listing rcbs dies for wildcats, and saw something called a 375 whelen. i was quite delighted when i found out it was what i thought it was, a 375-06. google told me the ackley improved was better because of the sharper shoulder.
so the question is, how much effort would it really take to get a weird custom case developed and chambered and get dies made?
or should i just go the route of the 375 whelen a.i.?
would a good gunsmith have a hard time finding a reamer for that cartridge? and what would be the best way to get brass formed to that size?
thanks for any info

Doing a 06 straight will give you more like a 423 not 375.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6521043/m/273106446

I don't know what kind of rifle you are talking about but a 375W OAL is around 2.5" and the 375AI is more like 3.34"

If you are wanting something in the 375Whelen AI range and a bolt rifle the simplest would be a 9.3x62 in a CZ550 pick one up for around $500 save a lot of time and energy and use it to shoot instead.

i cut a 30-06 at the shoulder and it measured close to .40 if i remember right.
ch4d lists a "belt forming die" that sounds like it forms a belted case out of a rimless, that could help with a cut case design i think.
would 30-06 brass be able to stretch to the 375 or should i just buy some 35 whelen brass?
i'll probably be using a mauser action. found a decent one at a show a while ago

I think using 240 Weatherby brass would be much simpler.

quote:

would 30-06 brass be able to stretch to the 375 or should i just buy some 35 whelen brass

If you are talking about the neck area yes. Taken slow and anneal afterwards. I have taken 280 brass to 416 and make my own 375 wildcat brass from 280s. If you are talking about cutting it off what difference does it make?
An 06 based case should be around .436" at the shoulder.

I'm at a loss trying to figure out what you are hoping to achieve.

quote:

I think using 240 Weatherby brass would be much simpler.

yep gets you to the same place. I know Bent Fossdal in the thread above had landed on just running 06 cylinger brass in a 240 die. That allowed him to get a case 2.65" long and use cheaper brass than the Wby. The radius shoulder is difficult to open (or at least for me). He was going with minimum taper with a .423 bullet.

go buy a factory 375 ruger and be done

I think that we British did it a long time ago! 400/375 Holland and Holland!

the idea of messing with a 30-06 case to make something else is just because of how much i have around from a garand and a couple hunting rifles.
http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=18
it sounds like those could be used to form a belt on an 06 case to make it similar to the 240 wby (im assuming) but after you do that, i was thinking of just hacking off the case at the shoulder and sticking a large bullet on there.

odds are i'll go the route of the 375 whelen a.i. but why not make something a bit more unique?

thanks for the input

im starting to think i'll just go the way of a 375 whelen. could they also make an ackley version if i ask?
http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd375whelenimproved.jpg
http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd37506.jpg
some specs of the cases i've found
would i need to get a case forming die for the whelen or should the normal dies work?

it looks like the case size for the ackley is larger at the shoulder, im a little new to the improved cartriges, so im wondering if you have to fire form them to that size?

Check out z-hat.com 375 hawk, a very good option

sounds like a good option, but i'd rather have a local gunsmith do it than have it shipped off somewhere

There is NOTHING wrong with the regular .375-06.
Ample shoulder, easy to make.
And it shines! The best round that never was!
The AI is even better, as case life is longer.
Use .35 Whelen brass, full length size and fire.
Or Howell Basic brass with no head stamp, needs to be cut to length.

There is no reason whatsoever to start playing around with a belt on that round, and besides that it is also a pain in the ass.

Always something. On my wildcat .425 Fossdal, I have now ordered cases from Quality Cartridge, as I got a customer to order half of them. it will be limited to 66mm, but the work with the belt was to much of a pain.


If you want something really unique, go for the old .400-375 H&H, wich is exactly the .30.06 case with a belt in .375. :

check out the 375 Brown-Whelen.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Always something. On my wildcat .425 Fossdal, I have now ordered cases from Quality Cartridge, as I got a customer to order half of them. it will be limited to 66mm, but the work with the belt was to much of a pain.

I am delighted you are going with Quality Cart.

I got a chance to meet with him at the shot show.

with Qual Cart making brass it will open up the 425 Fossdal to the world.

There are few wildcats that are worth doing IMHO and the 425 Fossdal is one I will have to have one of these days.

I would love to have a small cache of the cases... maybe I could contribute some to increase the order by a bit for a future project.

Go Team 425 Fossdal!

so the 400-375h&h is the size of a 30-06 but adding material for the belt?
and is the 375 whelen the same as what a 375-06 would be?

so many options...
i'll probably lean towards the a.i. version if its not too hard to shape brass like that.
i cant find any sites for howell brass, do they have a site?
brass is probably less important untill i get frustrated by cracking 30-06 brass

also, would fireing the throat before sizing help expand it?

im guessing the brown-whelen moves the shoulder forward from what im reading about the 35 version... is that right?

i dont see rcbs listing anything besides the 375 whelen, would it cost much more for dies for improved versions?

thank goodness for the internets to help me research this

quote:

i cant find any sites for howell brass, do they have a site?

http://www.hunting-rifles.com/Ammo/ammunition.htm The 380 Howell is a 375 in a 2.6" case. AHR will chamber your rifle in 380Howell sell you the brass, dies and or ammo.

Yep the brown whelen has the shoulder forward.

Midway lists the dies for the 375WhelenAI
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=1&Cat...702***8344***9261***

Same price as the basic. You can also have Hornady make custom dies for your rifle for around $125.

In a 375AI you would simply neck up a 35 Whelen case to 375 load a bullet and fireform/ With the Brwon Whelen you would need a false shoulder or at least the bullet stuck in the lands to headspace on to form.

As others have stated the Hawk has formed headstamped brass and dies available.

But in less you must have a 375 the 9.3X62 will do anything any of these will do and you can buy a factory rifle.

it looks like if i get them through midway i'll be waiting for them, so might as well get them from rcbs and save a few bucks... if its possible
im still not sure if i'd worry about custom brass because the original idea was using 30-06 brass that i have a lot of.
i guess i'll pay the smith a visit to see what can be done.
thanks for all the help

If I had a stash of .30-06 brass, I would rule out any carts with a swaged belt and change of neck.
What is left, is the .Standard .375-06/.375 Whelen and the AI version. Both super rounds.
The AI gives a tad more power and caselife, but requires more work.
Then I would ask myself, how funny is it to fiddle with brass?
My experience have told me that the first 100 are a lot more fun than the latter.
Now, the AI version requires a forming load. OK, every gun should be practised with, but it is one step more before you are good to go hunting.

The .375 Whelen will take you there with the minimum of labor.
Here it is, next to the .35 Whelen.


You tell me it is not sexy!
You tell me the shoulder is to small!!

quote:

im still not sure if i'd worry about custom brass because the original idea was using 30-06 brass that i have a lot of

When you say you have a lot of 30-06 brass. Is that brass new or fired? There is no way I would go to the expense of having a rifle built in standard much less AI and start with fired brass. Unless you are going to hunt varmints with it 100 new cases will last the lifetime fo the rifle. If your brass is used sell it and get some new for your new rifle.

Below going from left to right. 375Whelen, my 375PDK a blown out 280 case, 375PDK using 380 Howell brass, a 380 Howell factory and a 375H&H. Thought I had a 375WhelenAI but I didn't.

My buddy uses the 380Howell brass because he wants the longer neck. My shorter case actually has the same capacity as the 380 and in the same length magazine I gain 3 grs or about 4+%of net capacity.

so it sounds like im leaning towards the basic whelen design, so i wont have to fire form it.
the 06 brass is fired, but i occasionally buy new so i could put some towards it to try... but im guessing using 35 whelen brass will be what happens
ive done some annealing with brass before, but im wondering for resizing should i do it before or after resizing? im thinking before could help soften it for stretching but im not sure.
custom order through midway or rcbs... do you think an order through rcbs would be faster?
custom headstamped cases would be cool... maybe later though because we have no other 35 whelen.
just an idea though, if i went the way of the brown-whelen would it be able to fire form without any tricks because the mauser extractor would be holding the case back? or is that asking for something bad...

not sure when things will get rolling but its about an 80% chance of being a basic whelen.
dont worry, ill get some pics when its done.
thanks everyone for the help

"I" would not rely of an extractor to do my head space. If you decide on the brown whelen the headspace is not really an issue. You have two options. Set the bullet out long enough to jam in the lands. Or my preference. Put a larger expander on your resizer. Push the brass in far enough to expand the entire neck. Remove the larger expander and resize to form a false shoulder. Load and fire.

so the final plan is a custom mauser in the basic 375 whelen. the fn mauser we had with a pretty stock is getting customized in 35 norma mag (previously 308 norma) so we will be on the hunt for another good mauser action for a while.
not sure how soon the project will get going, but ill be sure to post pics on here when its done.
also, would anyone have any reloading data for it at all?
ill check some sites for data on it...

It will make you happy!!

And you can always ream it up later if you want.
But the speeds will surprice you!!

google found me a couple pages...

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=3...Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w375whel.html

i know the second one is a.i. but it should be in the ballpark right?
ill just work up to it and all that stuff.