400-348 win a.i. anyone have one?

thought this would be a great cart. 411 and 410 pistol bullets in a 71 lever.

what performance can be expected?

the 411 wsm would be better but i like the lever thing.



cute isnt it 411 wsm

It would be able to exceed the 416 barnes (416 on 45-70) by say 100-200 fps. I'm pretty sure it has been done, but I have no idea what it's called. Maybe the 400 Alaskan, albeit not one of the "real" 348 based Alaskans.

I'm thinking 400gr @ 2000 fps might be possible, and 350's @ 2200 fps. Thats a WAG, but likely pretty close. You might want a slightly longer neck if you're going to shoot heavier hardcast bullets, as keeping the gc out of the body seems to really aid accuracy.

Neat concept!

glad you like it...

the 400-348 win a.i. has been done but i can find no info on it. i think the 360 gr north forks, 405 win and pistol bullets would be ideal for this. with the 360's it might be able to reproduce the 450/400 ballistics with a .3 sd bullet in an oldfashioned levergun.

I think the 416-348AI achieved 2050fps with a 400gr ... so the 0.411 version should be fairly similiar. Like the 400Whelen though ... I think the case capacity would be better suited to the 300gr and 350gr offerings. One fly in the 0.411 ointment is that I cant seem to find a .41cal pistol round-nosed FMJ. Getting the flat-nosed .35 pistol stuff to feed from the magazine of a bolt is problematic ... not sure how the .41 bolts and levers would go?
Cheers...
Con

You're stuck with cast or pistol bullets. No one makes an acceptable flat point that will tolerate that velocity. No, you can't shoot mine for a multitude of reasons.

nfmike...

what about if you use a shorter neck for your bullets???

the 41 xpb would be good, no?

If you're not looking to brain buffaloes, I'm thinking you should be able to find some suitable ~350 gr expanding bullets, at some 2200 fps it would certainly do the trick.

To me it would be superior to the 45-70, you'd get essentially the same balistics, but higher sd bullets.

I've generally moved away from wildcats, but there are still some interesting niches when one moves into some of the less popular action styles. I like a good rimmed case Would be "interesting" in a single shot pistol

quote:

the 41 xpb would be good, no?

If you are talking a tubulaar magazine, it's not no, it's HELL NO. Not an X, not mine, not any spitzer or semi-spitzer. And it doesn't matter what the neck length is.

I suppose you could squeeze and Hornaday FP 405 bullet (.412) down it but that bullet already sucks. Up the veolcity and it would even suck worse.

There is not regular source of 411 bullets for a tubular magazine that will operate properly at those velocities.

Move on to your next idea.

i would think these xpbs would not ignite the primer am i wrong???

i am not looking to be the next darwin award winner

could i load one in the chamber and have regular flat points in the tube?

the wsm version is still viable though

paul...yup single shot would be great!

hey paul...

for a single shot you could also use the cheaper 50-110 brass ans neck to 411 but i think the 458 would be better for the larger case

Whatever they call that bullet that you have pictured (flat point, open point or whatever) they don't make it in 411. Their only 411 is a spitzer.

its a 180 gr 41 x pistol bullet

http://www.barnesbullets.com/prodxpb-pistol.php

I think there was a 416 alaskan... and if not, it's mine.

jeffe

Jeffe,
Sorry, there was a 416Alaskan ... but not a 408

Boom stick,
If interested for "your library", PM me your email address ... I've finally received dimensional drawings for the 411/338, 411KDF and 411WMS. Need to send my 'smith the 411/338 drawing to see if he can grind down one of his reamers.
Cheers...
Con

el jeffe...

here it is but there is waaaay too much body taper...

do 10 thou body taper and a 40 degree shoulder and lets call it the 416 pig hammer!

Where did you get that picture? Or is that something you cobbled together? Either way, you better put one hell of a crimp on that bullet. Looks a tad loose to me.

416 AK and 416 IMP have already been done by many. Jon Kronfeld had one built both ways. Found the one with the taper was useless. The IMP was a little better. I think he sold it to Wayne Van Zwoll, last I heard.

STILL NO BULLETS ARE MADE FOR IT

Picture may be from a 450Alaskan?? Neck should be around 0.435" ish for a 0.411".
Cheers...
Con

nfmike...

http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm

http://www.guns4all.nl/docs/drawings/caliber.htm

here are a couple resources ferya

f.y.i.

the 411 wsm in a browning blr would rock

Boom Stick,

thanks for posting these two websites. Takes a lot of the work out of looking at possible wildcats.

Rich

Midway stocks a .416/348 Ackley Improved reamer. I started to buy one, but they wanted $60 more than the .375/348AI, so I bought the cheaper. My M71 has a 20" barrel, and will give 2300fps with a 300gr bullet. I still feel bad about the $60, as I do believe the 400gr would be better, and I think you could get 2000fps out of it. If you really want a workable bullet contact Corbin. I'm going to because the Hornady bullet i'm using now has the ogive/shank junction in a less than perfect spot. The .416(in an M71) would have the same problem. measure the OAL-case mouth then leave enough shank to crimp. There are a lot more .416 bullets than .410, even if you have to load the first shot single-shot. If you visualize the gun as a "bear backup," you needn't worry about the point of impact difference. Things would be way too exciting already.Have fun.

Dave Scovill published data on the 416-348AI a few years ago in Rifle Magazine's "The Legacy of Lever Guns" issue. He listed a 410gr Hoch bullet at 2035fps with 60gr of IMR4064, out of a Browning Model 71 with a 24" barrel. Hawk also makes suitable bullets for this cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by NFMike:
You're stuck with cast or pistol bullets. No one makes an acceptable flat point that will tolerate that velocity. No, you can't shoot mine for a multitude of reasons.

Hornady has a 300gr.FP made for the .405Winchester and Hawk Bullets has a 300gr. flat point. One could probably get Hawk Bullets to do a custom run in whatever weight wanted with a minimum purchase. Reeder has a .416GNR based on the .348Winchester case. As I say:".41s are fun

I will try to find an article I read, discussing the 400 Alaskan. The author stated a couple of outfitters in NWT used Mod 71 in this caliber and consider it the best bear stopper available.

I checked the source while at lunch....Dave Scovill's intro to this month's Handloader and it was a 416 Alaskan. As stated above I bet Hawk could put a flat nose jacketed bullet together.

Saludos...Frank

John Kronfield had one made up in 416 ....I think he did the rifle twice .. Once as the Alaskan version and once as the Ackley Improved...... He didn,t think too much of it as I recall.. Figures the 458 or 510 , calibers werwe better in the Model 71, or 86............I myself prefer the 450 Alaskan .. It is real straight foward and it feeds well... But all these tube feed rifles need something pretty substantial to attach the magizine tube to .....The 450 Alaskan has pretty good smack down from what I gather.....

Heck, why play around...I had a .50 Alaskan
built that shot 680 gr. NEI hard cast bullets...
kinda destroyed the backdrop...looked like a mortar shell hit it. Quite effective & I like it a little better than the .450 Alaskan.
Something about the big .50 bore!
The guy who designed the .450 Alaskan, designed the .50 Alaskan.
Good for Bison at short range.
Tom