So what is the highest velocity for a rifle cartridge? One of the guys atwork was talking about a 22-7mm rem mag that can go 6000+.

I have not heard of any such possibility because of current powder burn rates.

What say you?

Tell him you want to see the print out from the Chrony on that one..
I think it's need to be a solid copper bullet IF it were possible. The old 220 swift would shed a jacket once in a while.

said he read it in guns and ammo or something but I had not heard of it.

personally, or heard about from a reliable source?
I built a 22-378 Wbee with a 35-degree shoulder several years ago. It got up to 4800fps with 55gr bullets, but none made it to the target, so that was not in the article in Precision Shooting Magazine. 60gr Nosler solid base bullets were the best performers, under 1/2" group at 4400+fps. Wbee had Bob Forker and Bob Hutton develop one shooting solid steel alloy BB's (IIRC) to test the shielding for the old space ship program in the pre-lunar landing days...Apollo Series. They supposedly hit 7,000fps with like a 30gr pellet. I built mine in 1996 I think. It was a great hit at the SHOT Show the next year, I got to sit next to Bob Forker at Hodgdon's 50th Anniversary dinner, and we began talking about the experiment. Guy on the other side starts to suggest that Bob/I were putting him on until I took a loaded round out of my pocket and handed it to him...the look on his face was like a Mastercard commercial ending ..."priceless". I could blow up every bullet but the Nosler 60gr SB and the custom JLK 80gr VLD bullets. They shot about 4200fps IIRC. I need to keep better records.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

ATK produced M910 does 5000 fps. off the rack.

The 50 Supershot BIII does 5250 fps.

Faster is doable if you have the $$$$$$

The physics are the same.

I got to read a report once made by the Phillipines' Military... they were looking for a hyper velocity bullet combo for their machine guns... using the good old Ma Deuce 50 Cal Browning...

the took a 50 caliber case and necked it down to 375 and 338 even... but regardless of how much smaller that the 50 cal case was necked down.. they could only reach a certain point, and they got no more velocity.. they were trying for 5000 fps, and only got something in the 4000 fps range with the 375 and 338 bores...

they scrapped the project..

roughly 65-70% the burning rate of powders, within reason.

about 5000FPS is all that there is

I seem to remember in one of the PO Ackley books that he was hitting over 5000fps with a 22-284. I also remember there was one word next to the load..."caution."

Rifleman did an article many, many years ago.

If you could get all the energy in the powder charge onto the bullet without any parasitic forces (friction) you could hit around 8,000 fps. BUT...

Biggest problem is that as the powder in the case burns raising pressure, the powder gas that has already burned and is in the barrel is cooling, shrinking, reducing pressure giving off heat to the barrel, case, etc. So just burning more powder doesn't help much beyond a certain point...

Then there is the friction of the bullet/barrel, etc. Mr. Ackley wrote that rifling took up 1/3 of the bullets energy and when I, respectfully, asked about this, he confirmed it and mentioned experiments by Howe using a sintered iron bullet in a smooth bore and hitting 6,000 fps. (Long time ago.)

I assume you are familiar with current cartridges to have heard of the 4110 of the Swift and I beieve the .17 Rem exceeds that a bit. But for all your "high performance" and high wear, 4,000 is about the practical limit.

I loved the .244 H&H. Yes, the .300 case necked to 6mm. Mr. Ackley said that barrel life might go 250 rounds sometimes. Again, long ago. And cordite powder was notoriously hard on barrels.

Interesting question. Final answer is not in, but with current carbon/hydrogen powders most of the book has been finished. Happy holidays.

Just FWIW:

Things faster than a speeding bullet:
5280 FPS= 3600mph

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/f3430b4511b84010vg...04eecbccdrcrd/4.html
Maximum Velocity
A compendium of the fastest things the world has to offer, and a celebration of the technological breakthroughs that feed the rush

By Gabriel Sherman | February 2005


Related Articles:
Surge of the Scramjet
6,800 mph
X-43A Scramjet: World’s fastest aircraft
On November 16, 2004, NASA’s dart-shaped, X-43A scramjet streaked above the Pacific at Mach 9.8, shattering the existing world aviation speed record of Mach 6.8, set last March by another X-43A scramjet flight. Carried aloft under the wings of a B-52B bomber, the X-43A was launched at an altitude of 40,000 feet.

The 12-foot, unmanned research plane was the swan song of NASA’s $230-million, eight-year-long Hyper-X program, which tested the alternative engines that will propel the next generation of space vehicles and, perhaps, civilian airliners. Scramjets—engines that generate combustion from compressed supersonic air and gaseous hydrogen fuel—could power aircraft up to Mach 15, potentially cutting an 18-hour flight from New York to Tokyo down to two hours.

17,895 mph
The JASPER: World’s fastest land-based projectile
Last year, researchers studying how America’s nuclear stockpile will age began testing the properties of plutonium with a gas gun capable of firing a 25-gram projectile that flies 36 times as fast as a typical bullet. The 30-meter JASPER, operated by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, fires in two stages. A powdered propellant provides the initial propulsion, and then a blast of compressed hydrogen triggers the extreme velocity. Projectiles 28 millimeters in diameter are shot into nickel-size plutonium targets linked with sensors that measure the material’s reaction. The pressure of the impact exceeds 600 gigapascals—six million times the pressure of surface air, and representative of conditions that would exist in a nuclear detonation.

131,979 mph
Mercury: Fastest solar system object
Like the last few rapid spins of a dropped ring before it disappears down the sink drain, Mercury is whipping around an ellipse deep inside the sun’s gravity well. The fastest of all large objects in our solar system, Mercury’s speed is greatest when it is closest to the sun.

158,000 mph
Helios Probes: World’s fastest man-made space objects
Launched into narrow elliptical orbits in 1974 and 1976, the Helios 1 and 2 probes move fastest as they skim the sun slightly inside Mercury’s orbit. At their farthest out, they reach nearly to the Earth’s orbit and slow to one fifth of their top speed.

24,759 mph
Apollo 10: World’s fastest manned spacecraft
In May, 1969, returning from a dress rehearsal for the first moon landing, Tom Stafford, John Young and Eugene Cernan rode the command module of Apollo 10 as it entered the atmosphere at a steeper angle than any other spaceship before or since. Their top speed of 25,000 mph is the fastest any human has ever traveled.



670,616,628.99 ... mph
Cosmic ray: Fastest known object in the universe
A cosmic ray detected by the Fly’s Eye I detector near Salt Lake City on October 15, 1991, was traveling so fast that if it raced a beam of light across the galaxy, it would lose by only five millimeters. Fifteen similar, but slightly slower, cosmic rays have been detected since.

I've watched on the History channel " Modern Marvels" program about explosives. That the shock wave travels at a maximum of something like 5,800 fps and that is the fastest exspanding gases could travel.... I can recall shooting a AR-15 into a water hole some 400 yards away and at 3,000 FPS the bullet was impacting the water in what seemed like a nano secound!!!!!!! What do we need of a 5,000 FPS bullet any how?????

Just thought there may have been something new out there.

Always something new! It's just waiting for you to discover..........

You could do a muzzle loader, use plastic instead of gunpowder, blasting cap for primer, steel or carbide bullet and really get the fps up. Kind of like a aimed shaped charge. Lets see 60 to 70% of 30,000fps for a fast mil grade plastic.

But who's going to proof it?

Before someone tries it, the explosive powered muzzle loader was meant a joke?

So please don't post all the reasons
why it would or wouldn't work.

Wonder if someone could build something to withstand the pressures of an explosive. A massive block of metal with a "barrel" built in would be fast...

The Navy is working on a RAIL Gun. This was on "The Military Channel".
Not really a rifle, BUT it would fire a WHOLE rifle cartridge!!

Marry Xmas!!

I heard NASA is working on "liquid gunpowder"?

I also saw their big bb gun, on TV they said it shoots at 27 miles per second, used for simulating asteroid impacts.

Geez,
Mi 45-70 wil do 6600 with a hard lead punken ball, no shit. It's hel on tham hogs tho...

Just funnin you boys...

Roger QSL
PS, still love my 45-70 no matter what's said here.....

The 25mm M910 mv is 5070 fps. I think there is one other that launches at about 6000 fps but I can't find it right now.
C.G.B.

That's some muzzle energy! Anyone have the bullet weight and BC?

The info I have doesn't list projectile weight but rather "The projectile body consists of a solid steel core, pressed-on aluminum windshield, pressed-in tracer pellets, molded discarding-type nylon sabot...'. it uses 97 grams (.214#) of powder. It simulates performance of M919 a.p round which uses a depleted uranium core, mv=4659 fps. The energy on that must be amazing.
C.G.B.

wondeer whats the velocity of the metal storm projectiles?

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
So what is the highest velocity for a rifle cartridge? One of the guys atwork was talking about a 22-7mm rem mag that can go 6000+.

I have not heard of any such possibility because of current powder burn rates.

What say you?

I've heard that modern powders have a maximum expansion speed of 5,500 FPS

Either NASA or one of it's neighbors have a hydrogen powered gun with a very long barrel that is used to fire projectiles into the ground at 23000? MPH to simulate meteor hits butit uses methane to super-compress the hydrogen and then fires the projectiles into a "pool" of man made material that can be changed to replicate anything they want to test. The gun is build on a mountainside and fires down the hill. There was some talk about mounting one up hill to fire unmanned spacecraft into orbit. Also under discussion was it's use as a way to ship materials from the moon back to the earth - economically.
I believe that the rail guns are less complex and thus cheaper to produce. They get nearly the same velocity but with smaller projectiles.

The NASA gun that simulates meteor impacts is powered by IMR powder. Though I believe the barrel is filled with hydrogen.

Ya'll need to check out www.rbcd.net. These guys have SCREAMING FAST loads with nontraditional bullet weights. I personally chronographed a box of 20 rnds of .308 120gr at between 3413-3418fps, OUT OF A 20 INCH BARREL. I believe they were working on the "Civilian meteor round", a 308 supposed to exceed 5000fps, and military 50BMG exceeding 10,000fps. These rounds are grotesquely destructive on game animals. I know they have several rnds over 4000. How about a 45acp@2300?!!

Enjoy

Andy

drewhenrytnt, Not sure if I beleive the 3400 fps. Speer 11 only lists max speed of a 110 at 3256 in a 22" barrel. Hodgdon's site lists IMR 3031 at 3350 and a pressure of 59100. SAAMI spec max is 52000. I guess it isn't too far off?

However, here is a good one. I did hear a guy at sportsman's warehouse that said his 30" 308 155 gr palma rd was "pushing" 4000 fps. When I gave him a look, he defended himself saying it did't hit 4000, but it was close. I just walked away thinking to myself ---- I'd believe him if you could consider around 1000 fps short was "pushing"- ya right buddy

That rcbd site has a 50 BMG going 5900 fps. Someone oughta chrono that stuff.

Britz,

Bring your chronograph and I'll bring my rifle. Be prepared for the muzzle flash of your life though. We may have to wait until summer. If I come to the north country during winter the velocity will drop due to denser cold air. Any of ya'll that have used BK ammunition(Helotes,Texas) in the past(you are probably law enforcement-BK was practice ammunition only), Gary Theis the former owner of BK was with me in his warehouse when we chrony'd this 308 load. Gary just about shit down both legs of his pants. He also made me move the bench further away from his motor home afraid it would remove paint. Gary said the muzzle flash was as great or greater than his .50BMG. I may also post a discussion thread asking of the experiences of others using RBCD. The velocity is even more ridiculous with my Hart bbl 308 1in14 twist 25 inch. RBCD claims the Patriot Act caused the demise of their Civilian Meteor project. Personnally I think they couldn't reach the advertised velocity.

I will however stand behind the velocities I posted on this site.

Andy

Another thing I find curious about RBCD is the weight before and after mechanically seperating the projectile from the case. I have pulled a few and the components don't weigh as much as the loaded ctg.

Britz, 1) do you have a .308, 2) do you have a chrony? PM me and I may be able to have a box shipped to you. I always love it when the naysayers find out for themselves. But I suppose you will then tell me your chronograph is out of calibration and needs to be recalibrated.

I was quite shocked at the velocity myself. I have chronied lots of their ammo, and their advertised velocities are right on.

Their bullet composition is very unique and almost never exits the target. This cartridge is the closest thing to a true energy dump I have ever seen. The pistol ctgs consist of a sphere of a virgin plastic(polypropylene I think)in a copper jacket with a soft metallic plug in the nose. Upon entering flesh the nose plug compresses the plastic. This type of plastic redirects energy and being surrounded by fluid violently forces the fluids and surrounding tissues in reverse--going back through the entry hole. The result is an enormous gaping hole. Many times the entire gut area is blown out making it very difficult for the target animal to go more than one step.

After doing many demonstrations of their products I have their ammo in my concealed carry SIG 220. I hope I never have to use it. I have killed pigs and deer with it and the results are disgusting. Maybe I'll get to shoot a hog here pretty soon. I'll shoot in the guts and post the pics and hope not to get censured by the moderators. Whitetail deer shot in the neck almost always lose their heads. It is pretty nasty.

Andy