Already done. 411 Ryan Express. Headstamped brass is available. EAsy rebarrel, standard headsize, use 405 Win dies. 400 grains at about 2100. Let me know if you want to know more. Cheaper than a 411 Hawk

quote:

Originally posted by paul garrett:
Already done. 411 Ryan Express. Headstamped brass is available. EAsy rebarrel, standard headsize, use 405 Win dies. 400 grains at about 2100. Let me know if you want to know more. Cheaper than a 411 Hawk

Paul, cheep is not the issue. If I wanted to use .411 or .416, the regular .30-06 case would be better. And if so, nothing beats the original .400 Whelen with its .458 shoulder. The only way to get a .423 on that head diameter, is to go belted.
And a belted .423 on a .476 case head has not been done before, to my knowledge.

Thanks anyway!

bent...i saw the ammoguide...are you going to 68mm???
have you decided on brass source?
thanks.

Yes, Boom, i am going with 68 mm, and I am going to use AHR Howell basic brass for a starter. I can use those for my FGC's in a pinch - a little short, but still usable. If it is a success, I can always use the Quality stuff 2mm shorter.

Is this the same as the old 404-06 Belted Jeffery ?

hammer...please give us more details on this please.

i had an epiphany earlier today and wanted to post here then i will start a new thread.

correct me if i dont have all the details right...
the goal has been to do a 416 at 2150 on a wby case. then it morphed to a 423 on the wby or 66mm long 30-06 basic brass but bent decided to go with the ahr brass. now bent has decided to do a longer version to get the 2150 at reasonable preasure. nothing wrong with any of these and they will all work fine.

now to my point of this post...

i mentioned about the 284 basic brass that is being made and have been banging my head (essential wildcatting procedure) on possible new wildcats. i finally figured it out. swage a belt on the 284 basic brass so there will be no headspace issues or taper issues.

the case can vary from 06 length or 2.54" (the most logical) or 66mm.
it will be a straight taper, no shoulder to either 411, 416 or 423 (it can go up to .435" the bullets for the 425 w.r. but i dont see the need) though a shoulder on the 411 would make some sense and you could use the 411 hawk reamer and dies to save money.

being that there are no issues with headspace (perceived to be real or not) will give the hunter some confidence in his tools but we all know it is how the gun is put together and well tuned by the gunsmith.

that said... this is how i envision it to be and any help or input would be well received.

the goal is to get the 40's doing 400 @ 2150 on a rebarreled 06 size action with minimal modification suitable for d.g.

this is how i see the 435 version
2.54" brass length
.470" rim
.500" belt
.480" casehead in front of the belt
.020" taper
.025" neck thickess, 12.5 thou per side
.435" bullet

the 423 version

2.54" brass length
.470" rim
.500" belt
.480" casehead in front of the belt
.030" taper
.027" neck thickness, 13.5 thou per side
.423" bullet

the 416 and 400 versions i have not completely decided on as far as if it should have a shoulder for max capacity but figure 15 or 20 thou taper and a cal length neck.



what do you guys think???

here is a interesting angle...there was a cart called the 400/375 nitro express basicly a belted 06 case and necked to the 375 bullet. necking up to 411, 416, and 423 would not be a problem and you could just get more made with the headstamp of choice and i ass-u-me that you can do up to 66mm

the 400/375 ne is second from right

the pic below is a necked up 240 wby x 57mm, the 400/375 ad the 423 okh that headspaces off the case mouth.

the cart i described made on the 284 basic would basicly be a 423 okh but have a belt and no headspce issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
Is this the same as the old 404-06 Belted Jeffery ?

Yes, Hammer, more details, please?

Bent,
I couldnt wait untill I had time to stock my 400/375 belted, so i dropped it into a 96 swede stock. It's built on a 1936 mex so no problems there. It looks like 2300 fps with a 270 grn Horn is no problem with pressure low enough that the primers are still very round. If you go with a 423 belted, why not borrow my reamer and make a switch barrel!

OK, just because my firstborne is only 3 weeks old does not mean I have no time for wildcatting!

I borrowed a .240 fl-die today, and runned through some .22-250 cases to see if a belt would be formed. The result:


.240 Wea'by opened up to .423, Howell basic brass and a .22-250 after a run in the .240 die.


Tried to take a better pic of the belt.
This will work!

TSJ, thanks for the offer, I might do that!

bent...try it with the large 66 brass and see what it looks like for the 10.74x66

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
bent...try it with the large 66 brass and see what it looks like for the 10.74x66

Yea...the more I think of it, the more tempting is the brass from QC..............it is soooo much more fun to plan than to make cases............
I'll have to decide within quite soon, so I can make this gun go boom in the spring!

The good thing about quality cart other than the owner is that others can take part if they want with the brass too. Share the genius

any good news to share?

It is hunting season, and my firstborne is 2 moths old, so time is not plentiful. Got a mail from QC, they wanted a drawing, and I sent them that last night. If they can make them 66mm, I'll go with the stuff. A gunsmith friend here has a CNC mashine we can cut the chamber in and also make dies, so I do not need a reamer on this first one, but I will order one anyway - I already have people interested here in Norway! It will shoot in the beginning of 2008!

yeahaw! Congrats on your son! Lucky guy...the boy and you.

switch barrels in 06's for all

Thanks,

- but she is a girl!

What a cutie!
Congrats!
She will make a fine hunter/wildcatter

I'll second that Boomie, what a cutie!!!! Whats her name Bent?

Crap, QC asked close to 700$ for 300 pieses of brass. A bit stiff, me thinks. Guess I am back to a swaging die and cylindrical brass from AHR....

how about some people chip in or split the run with you to bring the cost down?

If you post on the big bores you might get a couple people who want to build one with you to bring the cost down.

I can start a fund drive...

I'll start with chipping in $40

This is too cool of a project to be slowed down or not have good headstamped brass.

Greately appretiated, boom, but I really want to wait a bit. I want this to be good. 700 is a lot of bucks if this thing is not what we think it will be.

SO - I will order the reamer and a barrel, and 20 cases of .240 Weatherby. I'll go the slow way to form them - they will have a way to short neck, but enough to seat the bullet - about like the .416 Taylor. I will neck them in a 10,75x68 die, and do the testing this way. If this is all good, I'll order the proper brass. If we have an interest in the US, I can ship the reamer to El Jeffe, and let him do the jobs. Hate to see the man goofing around doing nothing!

Bent,
Congrats.. I got teased today about the design and redesign of the 500 AR ... heh, you can't redesign a kiddo!!

After catching up on this thread, I see there has been objection to the cost of 240 brass and there have been experiments forming belts.

That reminded me of reading an article when the 240 was introduced. The writer, to see if it could be done, formed cases from 270 Win (I think} using only the FL die, and used them without problem.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by bcp:
After catching up on this thread, I see there has been objection to the cost of 240 brass and there have been experiments forming belts.

That reminded me of reading an article when the 240 was introduced. The writer, to see if it could be done, formed cases from 270 Win (I think} using only the FL die, and used them without problem.

Bruce

Thanks for the input , Bruce!
The deal is that on the .240 the belt is just a giimick, true headspace is on the shoulder. So While the brass can be used the belt is still minimum. Running a .22-250 in the .240 Wea'by die gave a belt, but the body above the belt measured .4520, while a .240 Wea'by measures .4490. On the .425 Fossdal, I need a proper belt for the headspace. But I can use a chopped off fl-die for the .240, and then make a swager for the rest.

Here is the latest pic - and so far the best one.
The .425 Fossdal (4mm to short brass), flanked bu the .458 WinMag on the right and the 10,75x68 to the right.


Then a pic with the .425 Fossdal next to the .405 Winchester. Powder volume is about identical.


When we know that a 405 can be loaded to 2150 with a 400 grs bullet at 62000 psi, the same bullet weight should reach the same velocity with the .423 bulet at a lower preassure.

So I just ordered the reamer, and 100 pieces of Howell basic brass. It will only save about 500$ compared to custom stamped from QC, but It will be OK for a start, and I will get a full 68mm as intended - QC could only give me 65mm.
I'll get a Lothar Walther barrel as soon as I got the reamer - we are going boom preety soon!

Congrats Bent!

Question...

Wont the 68mm brass keep it from being loaded in a rebarreled 06 with a 3.35" mag?

What is the tip to canalure length on the bullets you will use?

I think a 65mm will do 400 @ 2150 and be the ultimate 400 Whelen/Hawk alternative and can be loaded longer.

Just a thought...

Glad we are getting off the ground

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:


Wont the 68mm brass keep it from being loaded in a rebarreled 06 with a 3.35" mag?

What is the tip to canalure length on the bullets you will use?

Thanks, Boom!
Look at this pic were it is standing next to the 10,75x68. Both are loaded with 400 grs bullets, the .425 Fossdal with a RWS FMJ and the 10,75 with a Woodleigh FMJ.
Both loaded to the total lenght of 3.310"!
The Magazine on my FN Husquarna measures 3.320", but I will open it up to 3.4" - very easy.
The other cartridges are .300 WinMag, .30-06 and .280 Remington.


The .30-06 have a loaded length of 3.210"

If we are good with the 3.35" mag box than YEEEAHAW!!!!

400 @ 2150 with reasonable preasure.

its the 350's that will be the steady diet anyway going 2300 ish so rebarrel an 06 for a no headspace issue bonafide DG cart with one more down than a win mag. AWESOME!!!

Since this is not formed from a wby case is it maybe time to rename the thread 425 Fossdal? you cant get a Fossdal from a wby now that it is 68mm.

425 Fossdal...the last name in 06 big bores

.....425 Fossdal ....I like it ......That would be a nice bear killer ....AND , And this is a big and ... I could use a standard cartridge holder........What kind or press do you use to swage the belt onto the brass ?????????How much does it thin the brass ??????

gumboot,

Thanks! Yea, it should be a super cartridge for Alaska! I expect 350 grs to do about 2300 fps.

I use a standard RCBS Rock-chucker. First i run the basic brass through a chopped off FL die in .240 Wea'by. I have rounded its edges a bit. Then I run the brass through a home made die wich make a more distinct and deeper corner. It should not thin the brass much, but I will cut on in two and take a pic of it.

Bent...how about resized 300 grainers for undangerous stuff...

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=...=707108097#707108097

People are free to do whatever, but personally I will not go below 350 grs. I do not want a downscaled .45-70!