Trouble.
See, if it was a good idea, it would have been done before.
The brass is a BITCH to open up.
Loaded a 400 grs to 3.340, it will only take 55 grs of powder. That aint much. It has the exact same capasity as the .405 Winchester.
Now, that one gave 2250 with a 300 grs bullet at 45000 c.u.p. Stepping this baby up to 55000 cup, what do you guys think it will do? With a 400 grs and 350 grs bullet?

well if 400@ 2150 and 350# 2250 is the goal it seems doable...

yes getting it necked up is a #&@$...and i think it is if it were easy it would have been done before.

keep up the good work

a custom cast wide long flat nose 400 grain bullet might be in order to get more of the lead out of the case.

but again i think the short 350 grain woodleighs will be the best performer.

Has anyone ever heard of a source for 240 Wby basic brass? You can find regular belted mag basic brass easily enough. I wonder if Norma has ever thought of making a run of this kind of thing. It would take the work out of forming completely. Just FL size and trim.

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
Has anyone ever heard of a source for 240 Wby basic brass? You can find regular belted mag basic brass easily enough. I wonder if Norma has ever thought of making a run of this kind of thing. It would take the work out of forming completely. Just FL size and trim.

I talked to the good people at Norma about this some ten years ago when I first started thinking about this round, but they told me that in the process the necked it down before they made the belt and rim. I might talk to them again any way, I am getting in love with that cute little belted rascal...........

it is damn cute aint it...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
it is damn cute aint it...

Paternal urges boom?

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
it is damn cute aint it...

Paternal urges boom?

well i think i am the godparent and bent is the dna donor since my input was only going all the way to 423...it is the most interesting i think.

he has been thinking about this one for a long time and i am glad he is doing something original and that gives him lots of satisfaction as a wildcatter.

if it does 400 @ 2150 and 350 @ 2250 it will be powerful enough for anything...the x57 dummy i have here is a cutie...

previously posted on another thread but placed here for continuity.

hey bent...

the other options instead of using expensive 240 brass is to swage a belt on 06 brass. (or 62,66,35 whelen ect)
buy cylindrical 06 brass and swage the belt then neck to 423

this method we can lengthen the brass and increase performance by going to say 2.65" on the brass length.

until then just recanalure the bullet and seat out another .15"

.....How much would it cost for swageing a belt on a case that should not be tampered with .......240 brass aint as expensive as glass eyeballs and other reconstructive surgeries and hospital stays..ect

Rigt on, Gumboat!
I got the brass from Boom yesterday, and it was a lot better to work with than the old I had, so I opened it up rather easy to .423. But it gets compressed, so only meassures 61mm after opening up, compared to its original 63,3mm. So I guess I have to go slower, and use more steps.Probably open up to .338, anneal, and fireform the rest.

OK, haven't had much time for this baby, but a formed case with bullet in place measures as follows: Head, front of belt; 0.450 / outside casemouth; 0.439/ base of neck; 0.440

So how is that for taper?

i am assuming that you used the 423 bullet.



well using the capstick yardstick there is 13 thou taper for 2.63" of body so figure about 5 thou taper for every inch of length. so calling it the 423 capstick is right on the money showing its parentage to the 470. if you need more taper you could outside neck ream a couple thou...being that is a straight tapered case that would be easy so again asuming the 423 bullet we have success!!!



the californian-norwegian wildcat team has scored! well mostly norwegian

the largest bullet on a .470" bolt without rebate at old school 404 d.g. velocities cat.

recoil should be tame.

now to make it fly...

can you post a pic???

thanks for the good news

Yea, this is way cool! What saves the project is the rather thin brass in the neck area, where it measures only .439, compared to .445 on my factory .423 cartridges.

So yes, succes, my friend!
The forming of cases will be piece of cake as soon as I make the correct tooling. If it produces the famous 2150 at tolerable preassures with a 400 grs bullet, I am going to get custom brass made up, and also have some custom bullets made up with the cannelure in the right place.
But as you say, the Woodleigh 350 grs is all good for everyday use!

I have a Husquarna 640 with an FN made action wich is going to have a new floorplate, giving room to six af theese baby's in its belly - and one up in battery!

Picks will have to wait a little longer!

quote:

I have a Husquarna 640 with an FN made action wich is going to have a new floorplate, giving room to six af theese baby's in its belly - and one up in battery!

Now that sounds like a good idea! I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Good work!

great update!

have fun...

quote:

If it produces the famous 2150 at tolerable preassures with a 400 grs bullet, I am going to get custom brass made up, and also have some custom bullets made up with the cannelure in the right place.

sooo it will go from wildcat to proprietary

bent's bullets and ammo incorporated.

i think a custom round nose cast and hardcast conical wfn with most of the bullet out of the case is in order. at the 2150 velocity they would be great.

any updates???

http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm



z-hat has 2.65" cylinder brass...a semi easy wildcat would be to zip off 7 thousandths and leave a belt to have a longer 423-240 wby. bent...this would be cheaper than making custom brass or just use it as a prototype for a longer version. the extra .15" should make it cross the d.g. threshold at lower preasure. you could cut a longer neck to use both lengths like the win mag and lott thing.

a straight taper belted 06 basic 2.65" case to a 423 bullet...kinda neet aint it

do you think reducing cylinder brass thickness is easier than opening up 240 wby cases???

Thanks, Boom, I'll look into that! Have not have time to play around for a while, we'll se....

it seems this will solve a few things...
no neck doughnut, no necking up or brass splitting issues, no custom bullets or canalure, lower preasure, cheaper, stamp your own headstamp ect.

once the lathe is set up you could churn out a case a minute.

oh yeah, more internal volume! and use 411 hawk loads.

Yea, it would solve a lot of hazzle. You mean cutting the belt in the lathe? No swaging?

corect!

since the sides are paralel and square to the base just take off 7 thou till the belt.

viola! 2.65" 423-06 belted

o.k. just found out the basic brass is made to the minimum spec and wont work. the neck thickness is too thin to do this. manufacturers are cutting costs and corners lapua seems to be the only people actualy making brass to spec.

need to find basic brass that is 473 or 470 casehead and not to thin.

How about swaging in such a die? Does that work??

Was in contact with a man who had a swaging die for making .240 weaby out of .30-06. I'd like to give that a try. 9,3x66 brass could work to, and is a lot easier to get over here...

i almost posted that yesterday exactly but i thought you did not want to swage...i was thinking the 66 brass was perfect and plentiful there...great minds think alike

if that wont slow you down the only othe issue might be neck reaming to get the thickness down.

the 423x66! yeahaw!

p.s. what do you say in norway instead of yeahaw?

so now we have 2 length versions to be...

bent...

talked to a manufacturer here in the u.s.

for a min order of $500 we can get custom headstamped 300 pieces of 2.56" length swaged belt 06 casehead to our specs or in other words a 423x65 belted with a custom headstamp. after a few firings maybe the brass will stretch to 66.


custom headstamped brass at $1.70 a pop!

it is now just a money thing.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
bent...

talked to a manufacturer here in the u.s.

for a min order of $500 we can get custom headstamped 300 pieces of 2.56" length swaged belt 06 casehead to our specs or in other words a 423x65 belted with a custom headstamp. after a few firings maybe the brass will stretch to 66.


custom headstamped brass at $1.70 a pop!

it is now just a money thing.

WOW!!! is that a respected manufacturer? What do we know about the quality of the brass? Hot dang!
Or, as we say it in Norway - or at least in my hometown - "Ã…-ye-heiane!!!"

yes...quality cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
yes...quality cartridge.

I'll contact them!

In my keeps, I found a basic Howell from the AHR company.They measures 2,7", or 69 mm, one mm more than my ideal! Now we're talking! Everything about it looks good, so I'll contact AHR and ask for price and if they can be delivered non-stamped.
Damn, this will be good!!!!!

cool...basic ahr/howell brass is known for its thickness so to make a dummy would be easy on that brass. but for regular formed brass the quality cart route cant be beat...

Well just to give you guys an update, I have contacted the AHR, and their Basic cases were cheap and easy, but all stamped Howell Basic. I can still punch in .425.
Right now I am making a swaging die after the drawing in Nonte's book of cartridge conversions. If I am happy about the swaging, I'll order 100 cases, a reamer and a barrel. Dies will be ordered after a fired case.
The naming buisness is still a bug, I am leaning toward .425 Fossdal, but .425 Safari is also on the block....

bent...the ahr brass is thick and you would need to thin ot the neck and lose a tad capacity.

the qual cart way will give you whatever stamp you want and put the belt on it for you...$500 for 300 pieces is a great deal and 66mm long.

the round will be for big critters so safari does have its charms and would make it sell if you wanted to go "public" with it.

another good thing about qual cart is they will make you a batch or anyone else who wants it with just an order...

oh i found out necking up to 423 on the 06 case has been done but headspaced on the mouth and went nowhere...it was the 425 okh

the 66mm version with the belt is definitely cooler!

give me or qual cart a call to discuss the issue. i think they can offer some assistance to you either way.

i am glad it is progressing

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=fBmOBoTexh&catid=601

bent...do you want to update this to be 66mm or 2.61" instead of 2.5"????

Hey guys I am liking the look of this round, I would be intrested in getting a gun chamberd in it have you made one yet ??? what kind of gun would you make it in ?? any chace for a single shot in it ??? I would like to see about getting one made ??? looks like a very nice Bear gun

indeed a good bear gun.

it would be great to have a switch barrel on any .470 bolt gun like an o6 but you could do a simple rebarrel of an 06 donor gun.

there is some interest in the round but it is still in the development stages.

Boom - That was not supposed to happen, I pushed the wrong button when playing around. Well, MY round will not be called Capstick, but as it is going to be longer, that is OK. OR we could rename this one Boomstick as You have contributed a lot on this brainstorming!

I seriously have my doubts about this round as a gun for Africa, as I doubt it will do 2150 with a 400 grs bullet at normal preassures. It should duplicate the original loadings of the 10,75x68, 2200 with a 350 grs bullet, and by so be a superb cartridge for bears and simmilar stuff.

I WILL make the cartridge, but use 9,3x66 cases and a cut off .240 Wea'by dies set to swage a belt on for starters and a 10,75 die as a neck sizer.If a success, I will order properly stamped cases and dies!

Hang on, this will be fun!

bent...i am getting some samples from quality cart for show and tell...
with his stuff all you need to do is primer and load and boom! no fuss no swaging no annealing no neck turning nada zip zero and will be 66mm $500 for 300 cases with headstamp. i will get them in a couple days to post fora visual and you can see what the headstamp will look like. one will be a 425 okh that headspaces off the mouth and the other is necked to a 400 and has a belt. i dont know the exact lengths yet.

not having to form them is a big deal imho
the order could be split a few ways and aparently this is original and has not been done before. there are similar ones but this is the coolest.

Appretiate if you walk a little slower, buddy!
This is my baby, and I will like to test it out before I order cases for 500bucks.

totaly understandable