I finally got the latest Short and Fat wildcat home for Christmas.

OK so the story is I had a nice Ruger 77/44 and I ruined the barrel, so its been out of action now for about 2 years, I had the barrel removed and have been slowly looking for alternatives, I was a bit limited with the Ruger rotary magazine and bolt face already opened to 44 Rem mag size so I searched high and low for my 44 Rm wildcat options.

Now Con, had just completed and built his 458 B&M on his Stainless Ruger 350 Rem Mag and he had his "as new" 350 Rem Mag barrel sitting at home collecting dust. We got talking and I did a bit of sniffing around and came across the 357 / 44 Bain and Davis, which I believe was a popular conversion in .357 Revolvers a few years ago

So for "mates rates" Con sold me the stainless .358 barrel, it needed the old chamber cut off and a bit of thinning down around the knox form but otherwise the barrel profile was pretty close to original, it was decided it would work, so I set about turning the 77/44 into a 77/357/44.

I posted a wanted thread on the AR and a really top bloke "theback40" PM'd me and said he'd send me the reamer, all I had to do was look after it and send it back when finished. You know it's amazing the generousity of a fellow shooter even from another part of the world

I also got some Hornady dies sent out to Australia because they are basically at close out prices in the US at the momment, nearly $80 cheaper than I was quoted from the Australia Hornady rep for custom dies.

While my Gunsmith was completeing the metal work, I stripped the stock back and oiled it, now that was a pain in the butt, the clear coat on those damn Rugers is extremely hard to remove.

Got the phonecall a week ago, it was ready, and with very little work fitted in well, the gunsmith even got the factory Ruger wording on the barrel on top and it looked like a standard factory issued rifle. It's light and topped with my old faithful Japan made 2-7 tasco world class, balances up very well.

I form the cases by running standard 44 Rem Mag brass into the full length die, it swags it down to 357 and puts a gentle shoulder on the case, it's really that simple, the case needs a mild trim because it grows in length

I have shot off about 10 rounds so far and it's a damn noisy bastard, recoil not that noticeable, I'll be doing some load development over the XMAS break, but I think 27g of 2205 behind the 125g Hornady XTP will be the load of choice. I'm guessing a velocity of 2400 to 2450 fps out of the 20.5 inch barrel, a trajectory similar to the 22 Hornet, and good out to 150/175 meters

The new rounds feed very slick out of the Ruger rotary magazine, all in all a very easy change over and will make a thumping small game gun over the summer and a nice introduction to big bores for my young boys.

Any of you who might have one built on a rifle and have some load data I'd love to hear from you.

PS. "theback40" the reamer will be heading back to the USA in the new year.

Here's some pictures for you guys to look at













regards
S&F

That turned out to be a very handsome little rifle! I'm a little surprised it's so noisy, a heavyer bullet might burn more powder in the barrel I suppose. Just make sure your boy has earplugs to shoot it! I'll be curious to see what those 125's do to a rabbit or fox too.
No hurry on the reamer, let the mail get over the xmas rush.

I have had a 357/44 B@D in a contender for years and it like the 30 carbine is really loud. I did not wear any hearing protection the first time I hunted with it..I do now.
That is an extremly COOL rifle sir..I like that

Congrats on a fine rifle and a Super nice round. I have it in a Marlin 1894 and a Ruger Blackhawk, an Encore Rifle and pistol barrel., Mine really likes Hodgon Lil'Gun and Hornday 180 gr. XTP's, anywhere from 14 to 17 gr. If you can get them the Speer Gold Dot Flat Point really groups well and should do well against Whitetails we have here. The Lil'Gun seems to work very well with just about any bullet in it.

Steve E...........

That rifle would be perfect for when I hunt in Indiana. They only recently started to allow rifle hunting for deer but only .35 cal and above and a case no longer than 1.6".

This .357 would surely put some venison on the table in that state.

Too cute!

Slick indeed!

That is a very cool gun and round. Very tempting... Now all i need is an action...

quote:

Now Con, had just completed and built his 458 B&M on his Stainless Ruger 350 Rem Mag and he had his "as new" 350 Rem Mag barrel sitting at home collecting dust. We got talking and I did a bit of sniffing around and came across the 357 / 44 Bain and Davis, which I believe was a popular conversion in .357 Revolvers a few years ago

Thank you for posting your little history.

I very much enjoyed reading it...I remember seeing the 357 B & D in an old "Guns & Ammo" twenty or thirty years ago.

That seems like a really useful conversion for a rifle. I was fascinated.

Something I'd like to one day do here but never will...but I it is one of those "why didn't I think of that" things.

Brilliant!

One last thing from a "Pommie" that the "Yanks" won't understand. Those 357-44 rounds chambering characteristics seem to me like Aussie batsmen!

They go in quick and you can get them out easy!

Bring on the SCG!

I will bet it is like the 357 maximum. Light bullets make for a loud gun and a heavier bullet should quiet it down quite a bit. Thats the way it is in my 357 max. rifle

Just great...another thing I want.
Did you chose 20.5 for balance or with a specific burn rates in mind?

Ditto the above comment about the 357 Max noise levels with light bullets.
Someone made 180gr Sil. bullets that worked well in the Max.

Now to find a donor Ruger.

Thats one very nice carbine!

quote:

Originally posted by Balldboy:
Just great...another thing I want.
Did you chose 20.5 for balance or with a specific burn rates in mind?

Now to find a donor Ruger.

The length just turned out that way, after the gunsmith cut off most of the 350 REM MAG chamber and ran the 357/44 Reamer in thats what is left.

A good 35 Whelan barrel would work fine as well as long as it has enough knox form left in the shank of the barrel.

He also had to turn the knox form down on the 350 Rem Mag barrel to match the original 44 RM barrel and Ruger action, there isn't a lot left, about an inch max.

Gents I'm able to seat the 140g Hornady Soft points out pretty far, further than I thought. I'm getting 2300 fps with 140g projectiles. It's very efficient, I'm nearly getting 30/30 velocities out of this gun with similar weights.

My son will shoot his first deer with this rifle this year and I'm confident it's will be up to the task.

I'm also going to try some 158g Noslers in it, stay tuned for an update.

regards
S&F

That's an interesting rifle. Congratulations on your creation..!! I had a Ruger Single action revolver converted to 357/44 B&D back in the 70's. Took it to Africa as part of my 3-gun battery on an all handgun hunt and managed to take a couple of the smaller antelope with it. In your rifle, your getting some pretty high velocities. I'm wondering how those bullets you mentioned..particularly the Hornady XTP's are going to perform. I don't believe they are designed to be pushed that fast. Have you considered the effect of your higher velocities on terminal performance..???

It looks like you could load 200grn round nose bullets designed for the 35rem. The 35rem gets roughly 2100fps with that bullet, and would be a solid choice for any big game up to black bear.

Really neat build.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Edwards:
That's an interesting rifle. Congratulations on your creation..!! I had a Ruger Single action revolver converted to 357/44 B&D back in the 70's. Took it to Africa as part of my 3-gun battery on an all handgun hunt and managed to take a couple of the smaller antelope with it. In your rifle, your getting some pretty high velocities. I'm wondering how those bullets you mentioned..particularly the Hornady XTP's are going to perform. I don't believe they are designed to be pushed that fast. Have you considered the effect of your higher velocities on terminal performance..???

Don thanx

The 125 Hornadys were super hot, they wouldn't group very well unfortunately, but velocity was 2400 to 2450 fps, and Im pretty sure these projectiles arent happy to run at those speeds.

We did manage to take a young red fox with this load and it was messy business, damage was extreme.

I have been running the Hornady 357 - 140g flat hollow points and the accuracy improved, however the best accuracy is comming from the 140g FTX bullets

But I'm cheating here, they are simply way to long and needed to be seated very deep to fit in the Ruger rotary magazine, so I'm taking the rubber tips off with a canvas belt and turning them into a flat point

What I have found is that the FTX without the rubber tip needs to hit something pretty solid to open up or they punch thru with marginal expansion. this might be the right bullet for deer size animals and deep penetration

I'll test them out in the field to give you some feedback.

I have about 250 158g Noslers to load and test and I do think these will be perfect to about 100 - 125 yards .

The twist on the barrel (was a 350 Rem Mag) is a quicker than what is normally used with a pistol round in these rifles so it should have no problems stabalising the heavy projectiles

I wonder how it would go with a 22 inch barrel and an ever so slightly slower burning powder ?


regards
S&F

i love hornady 158 xtp in my 358 wins for varmits

quote:

Originally posted by Steve E.:
Congrats on a fine rifle and a Super nice round. I have it in a Marlin 1894 and a Ruger Blackhawk, an Encore Rifle and pistol barrel., Mine really likes Hodgon Lil'Gun and Hornday 180 gr. XTP's, anywhere from 14 to 17 gr. If you can get them the Speer Gold Dot Flat Point really groups well and should do well against Whitetails we have here. The Lil'Gun seems to work very well with just about any bullet in it.

Steve E...........

Ditto on the 170 grain Gold Dot. My .357's (both rifles and revolvers) love them. I get complete penetration on whitetails even at rifle velocities (~1650 fps from my 1892 with 24" barrel) Midway is showing them out of stock right now though.

Thanks, ShortandFat, for your excellent post on the conversion of a Ruger 77/44 to .357/44 B&D!! I have a Ruger Model 77/44 and have been debating on rebarreling to the .357/44 B&D and was waiting to see if anyone did this conversion. If & when I have my Ruger converted; I think I'd go with a 22 inch barrel with open sights. Glad to know the magazine will feed rounds okay. <Thanks Again>

S&F,
I got the reamer in the mail today. I'm very pleased at how well your rifle turned out, always nice to see something differant.
Anyone else needing the reamer give me a holler.

Cool rig!
http://www.levergun.com/Marlin/index.html
McPhearsen did an interesting wildcat on 44 mag conversions for lever guns
I guess this could be done on this ruger too
He did a 50, 475, 44 and 30 version.
I guess if you want 35 Rem plus power this could be an interesting option or just rechamber for the 44 M3

Well Gents I loaned the gun to my gunsmith, after building the rifle he was so impresses he took it away on his latest trip

He just got back and sent me this photo, this was shot at about 40 to 50 yards running away from him, straight up the butt. The projectile was a Hornady 140 FTX running at 2350 FPS with the rubber tip removed to fit in the magazine.

It made quick and short work of this PIG and was a devistating little slammer on a few goats that were shot during the trip as well.



regards
S&F

Very nice! I'm surprised it dumped the porker with a texas heartshot, but shows the bullet is pretty tough.
Is the reamer making another trip across the pond for the gunsmith next!

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Very nice! I'm surprised it dumped the porker with a texas heartshot, but shows the bullet is pretty tough.
Is the reamer making another trip across the pond for the gunsmith next!

Yes the Rubber tip on those FTX projectiles is ment to initiate expansion, so because I used a canvas belt to remove the tips, they need to hit something pretty hard to expand.

Re the reamer returning ...... Actually it very well could, he loves it, my young fella has really taken a shine to it. The only problem I have is the Hornady Dies are VERY, VERY tight when resizing a fired case, I'm wondering if its a combo of tight dies, a slightly oversized reamer and slightly hotter loads

What reloading dies do you have ?

I think I will need to get the Full Length die opened up a little or I'm going to stretch the case too much when resizing and eventually get case seperation.

Do they sell 357/44 Neck sizing dies in the USA? If I could get a neck sizer I could bump the shoulder and neck and use the old 44RM FL die occationally to resize the case .

OH and was told there was a rumour Ruger may be making a small 35 cal on this rotary mag bolt action platform, If it's true, do you think it could be the 357/44 or the standard 357 Mag

regards
S&F

I have rcbs dies, and seem to fit the chamber fine. I have had problems with Horn dies being tight in a 6MM TCU I have, got some RCBS for it and they fit fine also. I'll keep an eye out at the gunshows for a used set of RCBS. Try "sizeing" first with the seating die and see if it does anything, if it does.... then the dies are seriously tight!

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I have rcbs dies, and seem to fit the chamber fine. I have had problems with Horn dies being tight in a 6MM TCU I have, got some RCBS for it and they fit fine also. I'll keep an eye out at the gunshows for a used set of RCBS. Try "sizeing" first with the seating die and see if it does anything, if it does.... then the dies are seriously tight!

Thanx
Yes those Hornady dies are definately tighter than spec, VERY tight

If you could have a sniff around for some RCBS dies I'd be grateful, There is NO retrictions shipping dies to Australia, I can fix you up with PAYPAL.......if you find any

regards
S&F

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:
Well Gents I loaned the gun to my gunsmith, after building the rifle he was so impresses he took it away on his latest trip

He just got back and sent me this photo, this was shot at about 40 to 50 yards running away from him, straight up the butt. The projectile was a Hornady 140 FTX running at 2350 FPS with the rubber tip removed to fit in the magazine.

It made quick and short work of this PIG and was a devistating little slammer on a few goats that were shot during the trip as well.



regards
S&F

That shows where the rubber meets the road..

cool set up!

Try neck sizing with a .357mag/.38sp die.

Ruger is bringing out a copy of your m77/44 rifle, but in the standard .357 mag.

quote:

Originally posted by dave-t:
Try neck sizing with a .357mag/.38sp die.

Ruger is bringing out a copy of your m77/44 rifle, but in the standard .357 mag.

I wool try a 357 mag die, I just hope its wide enough to not touch the body of the bigger 44 case.

I thought they were, but the 357/44 would cost less to develop because they wouldn't have to alter the bolt face or the rotary magazine set up.?????

It fits perfectly on the existing 44 platform.

Regards S&F

Neat project. Can't say I've seen a 357 B&D in a bolt action before, but I like it.

I've been shooting the round in converted Rugers since the mid-90s:



-Lee
www.singleactions.com