I don't know anyone that posted on the Wendell Reich thread. I read these threads because I want to hunt Africa. I have hardly ever posted before.

Sad, negative conclusions from reading it;

1. Africa is a bureaucratic hell and expecting even 10% of what's promised is foolish, if not downright stupid.

2. Take lots of pictures and movies of your trophies, because you will probably never see them again. And if you do, they won't be the ones you shot.

3. The booking agents, PH's, etc., don't have any control or influence over anything that goes on in Africa. You are at the complete mercy of natives who are uneducated, ignorant scum without the slightest integrity or honesty.

Do I have it right?

no you're just about 100% in the opposite direction

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
no you're just about 100% in the opposite direction

Thank you Butch

I have had nothing but good experiences with every booking agent and every PH and outfitter in Africa ( 4 trips, 3 countries, 70 days). Jo'berg airport is a cluster f#ck, and getting trophies back to the US from anywhere can be an extreme hassle with many folks to deal with and frustration at every turn, but even without receiving the trophies from some hunts, I'm pleased with having gone there each time.

Steve,

Thanks for your post!

Sounds like you can find a good PH and the hunt can be good, but with everything else related to it, travel, countries and their bureaucracies, taxidermists, and even getting your trophies, the odds of success are about as good as winning the lottery.

henry you sound like you've done little hunting. Anywhere you go today you have the strong possibility of problems with travel, people etc. You must do your homework. talk to people you know that hunt on the same level as you do. (level is important) I believe you'll find more bad hunts and outfits in north america than africa. Airlines are a crapshoot. if you want bad go try a couple of the canadian ones. bureaucracies exist through out the world. We live with ours here, and they theres. you'll learn by experience and conversation, reading whining posts, opinions by self important people etc. on the internet teaches nothing.

Henry,

I think you are incorrect, or at least I don't agree with the train of thought or logic that lead to your conclusions.

For me, the attraction of hunting in Africa, (in part at least,) was the adventure of distant travel, hunting in an exotic and semi civilized region, being with and around a different culture,.....know what I mean? The dangers, unknown, unforseen, uncontrolable events that may or may not culminate in lost trophies or other "Goofs," are the lure. At least a little.

Last fall I hunted the Snake River for waterfowl east of Bosie. My Belgian made "Sweet Sixteen," Browning was flown to Chicago instead of Dillingham during my return flight home. During the day or two after my return home that my shotgun was missing one of my friends here commented more than once that a circumstance like that would make him never travel with a valued firearm again.

Taken to the extreeme, perhaps my friend should never travel again, perhaps never leave the house again, even never get out of the bath tub again.

Henry, my pretty much worthless advise would be to go hunt Africa and a variety of other destinations ASAP. Unknown and unforseen circumstances can and will occur whether your final destination be down the block or halfway around the world.

If you hunt Africa and your trophies are delayed or never arrive, at least you tried, made an effort, a stab, something!

Actually it isn't all that bad. Problems can and do happen like those that can happen in any country in any business. The problems that do occur in Africa are not handled like they would be in this country.

They do in fact have a much bigger bureaucracy in Africa than we do. They don't have the same sense of urgency that we do. When something goes wrong it will seem like an insurmountable nightmare to resolve it.

Personally, the worst thing that happened to me in 14 trips to Africa was that some fool from the Zimbabwe govt failed to include a particular piece of paper in the crates. This resulted in USF$W seizing my entire shipment. I tried what seemed like forever to clear the matter. They released everything except for 2 monkey skulls, 2 monkey skins and a full crocodile skin. They were going to assess me a civil fine of $50,000 for illegally importing these species into the US.

I turned my lawyers loose on then and called in some political favors and they were all released with no fine.

You can have a great booking agent, a great PH and a great hunt. That doesn't mean that the government can't cause problems with trophy shipment. it also doesn't mean that things can't go wrong with the people preparing the skins for shipping. Things like fires for example.

The blame needs to be placed where appropriate. The booking agents is NOT responsible. They can't do anything about these type of issues.

quote:

I turned my lawyers loose on then and called in some political favors and they were all released with no fine.

Be glad you had those resources. Not all of us do.
I have to agree that Africa is a great triop. I've done 3 and they have all been diferent and exciting. Not without hassles

Hey, after tonight the government of this country could start looking a lot like some in Africa. I know that could be taken as a racist remark, but skin color doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.

Love my country; scared to death.

Most reputable hunting companies in Africa will persevere, "make a plan" and do their utmost to deliver a quality hunt to their customer, including getting the customer's trophies to the correct destination - in spite of some of the most corrupt, crazy governments on the planet. We could learn a thing or two from them. We may need it.

As one of my PH's put it to my "things just work in America" If you go to Africa the little things that we take for granted every day sometime don't happen
There is a thing called "African time".

It means it take 2 to 10 times longer than here. You just have to go with the flow. My 9 trips I have never had anything really bad go wrong.

Zim is likely the worst place to go right now. I would not go there myself. Lots of people do and don't have any problems. It just a risk I won't take.

A good booking agent will be extremely helpful, Wendell is one of the good ones. They cannot prevent or solve all the problems you may have.

Can't wait to go again

Henry,

With as much respect as possible I'd like to say you are completely FOS or very much mis informed. Most safaris are trouble free and if there is a hiccup it is a small one. If you use a good booking agent, follow their best advise and enlist a safari/gun savvy travel agent your expectation should be for a comfortable international trip, a fantastic hunt and your trophies should arrive in good condition in a reasonable time.

The occasional cock ups get far more press than the overwhelming majority of excellent experiences had by most.

Sincerely,

Mark H. Young

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Buck:
Steve,

Thanks for your post!

Sounds like you can find a good PH and the hunt can be good, but with everything else related to it, travel, countries and their bureaucracies, taxidermists, and even getting your trophies, the odds of success are about as good as winning the lottery.

Get a good agent to book the safari and handle the details...pay a bit extra and let him do the worrying.

Henry. like mark says most go off with out a hitch. I believe if you look at most people with trophy problems or lost baggage ect., one word is common: Zimbabwe. I will stay away for now till the politcal climate changes, BUT when the political climate does change the prices will normalize to a more normal Classic safari price range. With the low prices people are willing to take a chance. For me 15 or so safaris to most sub-saharan African countries (except Zim)I have lost at last count, ZERO trophies, been in fear ZERO, lost bags ZERO, gun damage ZERO, sick on safari ZERO. articles stolen also ZERO. you just learn how to live on Africa time as other posters have said. Safari is one of only two last great adventurwes left on this planet, Expedition mountain climbing and Classic safari hunting. Do not penalize yourself, live.
Chipolopolo

I had more trouble getting to and from Alaska than to Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Buck:
I don't know anyone that posted on the Wendell Reich thread. I read these threads because I want to hunt Africa. I have hardly ever posted before.

Sad, negative conclusions from reading it;

1. Africa is a bureaucratic hell and expecting even 10% of what's promised is foolish, if not downright stupid. This wasn't at all my experience.....I got treated very well and got everything I expected

2. Take lots of pictures and movies of your trophies, because you will probably never see them again. And if you do, they won't be the ones you shot. Again not my experience.....everything I shot showed up at my Taxidermist about a year later.....and in good shape

3. The booking agents, PH's, etc., don't have any control or influence over anything that goes on in Africa. You are at the complete mercy of natives who are uneducated, ignorant scum without the slightest integrity or honesty.
Well....wrong again.....no complaints from me on my African hunt!

Do I have it right?

I'd say you have it as wrong as you could.....your observations don't match mine in any way shape or form.

No Henry I can't agree with your statements above. My last trip to Zimbabwe I found very educated, honest people. They were informed in world politics along with the Zimbabwe situation. Your broad statement is very unfair and ignorant in itself.

I found Namibia to be a wonderful place and look forward to returning there sometime also.

Stay home and you will miss much the world has to offer.

Henry,

I hope your able to get past your beliefs as you would be missing an experience of a lifetime! My take on the vey few negative reports are exactly that, the "very few". Far many go and have a great safari without any hiccups. It is true, things move slightly differently over there but that is just part of the charm I have always figured. IT is an adventure, it is not all sterile, controlled, and without corruption which is part of the charm to me. My trips have each had a hiccup or two, but by far they have been trips I would do again in a heartbeat. Good Luck

Amazing conclusions to draw from reading one thread and all of them wrong. Go and experience Africa for yourself. I have had more problems and surprises on hunts out West and in Canada than in Africa.

If you are looking for an excuse for not going to Africa, I guess this is as good as any. Run with it and tell your friends this is the reason you refuse to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Buck:
I don't know anyone that posted on the Wendell Reich thread. I read these threads because I want to hunt Africa. I have hardly ever posted before.

Sad, negative conclusions from reading it;

1. Africa is a bureaucratic hell and expecting even 10% of what's promised is foolish, if not downright stupid.

2. Take lots of pictures and movies of your trophies, because you will probably never see them again. And if you do, they won't be the ones you shot.

3. The booking agents, PH's, etc., don't have any control or influence over anything that goes on in Africa. You are at the complete mercy of natives who are uneducated, ignorant scum without the slightest integrity or honesty.

Do I have it right?

Well, I have been hunting in Africa since 1982.

I have hunted with people I have never met, or even spoken too before.

I have booked hunts through agents, and I have booked hunts directly with the PH

I have had lots of trophies done.

Problems?

The only ones I could possibly think of are of trophies taking a long time to come.

That never bothered me, as I really did not have a specific time table for them.

A few things I have learnt.

There are crooks in all industries.
Some PH as well as some outfitters and booking agents are crooks.

The majority of PHs and booking agents are very honest, and will do everything possible to make sure you get what you paid for.

The above applies to those operating both in Africa and in America.

There is a common miunderstanding that if you book through an American agent, you are relatively safe.

This is NOT true in any sense whatsoever.

Regardless of the nationality of the booking agent or PH. If you have the bad luck and book with a crooked one, you WILL suffer.

One way or another.

Some problems that I have heard caused by American booking agnets.

Not paying their PHs for hunts they have conducted for them for several months, despite getting paid for them well in advance.

Not getting relevant licenses ready for a client as he arrives in Africa.

This includes both firearms license, and hunting licenses.

So those who think that by just booking with an American agent they are avoiding any problems, they are wrong.

Another common misunderstanding is that one should have a written contract.

I have never had one, and I have never had any problems.

All my dealings have been by word of mouth, and I have never, ever been disappointed by any of those I had the pleasure of hunting with.

Finally, if you are going to hunt in Africa, have an OPEN MIND!

Don't go with a shopping list of animals and sizes that you MUST have.

Hunting is not like going to the supermarket, and animals are normally kept out of the loop of those who must know what is going to happen. 99% of the time it all depends on luck what animal you come across.

It has absolutely nothing to do with either how good your PH is, or how good you are.

And at the end, enjoy your WHOLE safari. Not just the hunting part of it.

You will come back with unforgetable memories, which you will enjoy again and again throughout the years.

Saeed
Well Said!!!!!!

Saeed,

Well said!

May I point out one small mistake?

You say a contract is not needed: In fact in every province of South Africa a contract [called a Remuneration Agreement] is a legal requirement.

I have specifically asked the law enforcement officers of two provinces about by when the RA should be signed? Here are my suggestions and the replies:

Must the RA be signed: (i) On getting a booking deposit? No. (ii) On arrival at the airport before the safety of the client becomes your legal responsibility? No. (iii) Once you reach the accommodation for the first night? No. (iv)Before you actually take a rifle/bow and go into the hunting area? Yes.

But any Hunting Outfitter that takes any foreign client on a hunt anywhere in South Africa without having a signed copy of the RA is breaking the law! If he is prepared to break one law, well.........?

Quite possible that you will NEVER be caught or miss any contract with most South African Hunting Outfitters, but is IS a very specifically stated regulatory requirement. I advise anyone hunting in South Africa to insist on getting a draft of the proposed RA before paying any deposit for any hunt in South Africa.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

quote:

Finally, if you are going to hunt in Africa, have an OPEN MIND!

Don't go with a shopping list of animals and sizes that you MUST have.

Hunting is not like going to the supermarket, and animals are normally kept out of the loop of those who must know what is going to happen. 99% of the time it all depends on luck what animal you come across.

It has absolutely nothing to do with either how good your PH is, or how good you are.

And at the end, enjoy your WHOLE safari. Not just the hunting part of it.

You will come back with unforgetable memories, which you will enjoy again and again throughout the years.

This is the essence! You have to realize that the situations that get publicized are the exception, not the rule. 99.9% of safaris are trouble free but it is not a slam dunk. Any time you deal with others, they may not live up to your expectations, if you roll with the punches, your chances of having a great time are virtually assured. If you go looking for trouble, you'd be better off staying home.

quote:

if you roll with the punches, your chances of having a great time are virtually assured. If you go looking for trouble, you'd be better off staying home.

Blacktailer,

I could not agree more. If a client books a hunt expecting to get fleeced he probably will at least in his own mind. A client's mental attitude can make a mediocre safari into the adventure of a lifetime or a great safari into a disaster. It happens very often.

Mark

Thanks to all who posted. Your advice and counsel seems clear and well worth following.

I know my first post came off negative. After reading the thread in question and with yesterdays election I ended up looking at the glass not just half empty, but empty and broken.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. When I go to Africa to hunt, I will make sure my attitude is one that will allow me to enjoy every minute of the whole experience.

Shit Doth occur . 5 trips 2 bad run ins with total and complete ass holes one white boy who was very very light in the loafers The other a surly hateful bitch who was black. Both of whom call themselves Americans.
Every time I've made it to Africa every one there has been great. Never had a minutes trouble there. AS soon as I get the $$$ and a kitchen pass from the minister of the interior, she who will be obeyed, I'm going again

quote:

You are at the complete mercy of natives who are uneducated, ignorant scum without the slightest integrity or honesty.

Henry:

Enough has been said about the other elements of your post so there's no need to belabor those points. From a personal standpoint, though, this statement of yours is perhaps the most erroneous, if not offensive.

I have been traveling to Africa for 30 years and I would have to say that the indigenous people that I have dealt with have more integrity and honesty, on average, than most others I've met in industrial countries. Many of those that you will meet will, through no fault of their own, lack the education that we in the west take for granted. However, that in no way is reflective of either their character or decency.

Quite frankly, to make the generalization that native Africans are "ignorant scum" has all of the economy of reason that you might find in a Klan pep rally. The readers of AR deserve better.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Buck:
Thanks to all who posted. Your advice and counsel seems clear and well worth following.

I know my first post came off negative. After reading the thread in question and with yesterdays election I ended up looking at the glass not just half empty, but empty and broken.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. When I go to Africa to hunt, I will make sure my attitude is one that will allow me to enjoy every minute of the whole experience.

Henry...I do not like to post on threads like this, as I'm an outfitter myself.

I can say this though.....if you sift through the whole Wendell saga, you will pick up that one sour apple created a rotten bunch......Wendell has got a very good reputation as a standup guy in our industry. No he does not book for me, and no, I do not know the man.....and yes if he contact me today I will not hesitate to do business with him....

Check references over and over. I can give every hunter a list of 60 people from 6 different countries over the last year, that hunted with me, that can prove your initial posting to be very far from the truth......

I hope you get round to hunting in Africa SOON....

www.infinito-safaris.com

quote:

3. The booking agents, PH's, etc., don't have any control or influence over anything that goes on in Africa. You are at the complete mercy of natives who are uneducated, ignorant scum without the slightest integrity or honesty.

As you will see i am an African; I find your comment very, very offensive. Do a bit of proper research before airing such skewed and pompous views on a forum that is very cosmopolitan and has members from all over the world, including a lot of Africans.

Man guys like you make me uptight!!

In support of what Scott450 wrote, I just returned from Zimbabwe. The economic situation there is desperate. People are starving. Most are unemployed.

When I arrived in Vic Falls, the people were smiling, courteous and did their job efficiently. They were incredibly helpful. There was not a single person who tried to get me to give them money. Nothing of mine went missing.

There are some bad people to be sure. Has anyone one been through the Johannesburg airport in the last few years? If so you probably met some of them. These people are different but all the people aren't that way.

Els, you da man!

As I pointed out in my report of my own clusterfuck of a trip Namibian Nightmare the problems were ALL generated by first world companies and individuals. The "natives" were polite, helpful and refreshing.

While never being to Africa, I have been to India, which is another desperatly poor country. I have to agree with most peoples comments, often times in non wealthy countries, the locals are often very polite people, and very eager to help you regardless of being paid. Corruption seems to come more from the "well off" people of these countries, which are usually government workers, like police, guards and anyone with administration type jobs.

I am new to this board and absolutely luv it so far. I went on my first African hunt this past March 08. I used Bruce Grant Adventures as my US booking agent and hunted in RSA with African Field Sports. I was pleasantly surprised with how well the hunt, airline, etc. went. I expected more problems than I actually encountered. I think about my hunt almost every day and can't wait for my next African experience. Anyone that is considering an African hunt should research, plan ahead and expect the experience of a life time. Yes it took 1.5 hrs to check in at IAD, yes SA lost one bag from J'burg to PE - but I can't wait to go through this experience again. Plan for the unexpected and hope for the best. I was fortunate to harvest 9 trophies in 8 days - all for the cost of a WY elk hunt. Africa rocks for hunters!!!!!!!

I did my first African hunt this past May. I booked through Wendell Reich and hunted with Vaughan Fulton. Had zero issues with the hunt and my trophies were back in the States in good condition in less than 90 days. Problems obviously happen but my experience was painless.
Delta did lose my gun for weeks but I basically expect that from them.

It can happen to anyone. There can be problems with whatever vendor you happen to use. I have never had problems with Delta or Northwest when it has come to my firearms. Also I have been waiting for over a year for my trophies but know they are done and sitting with the shipper. When they get here that will be nice. Not worried since all things work out in the end. As long as someeone is aware then I believe it always will have some satisfactory ending.

The only negative aspect to my recent African trip was the Dept of Homeland Security jackbooted thugs assholes we dealt both leaving and coming back into the Atlanta airport. The people in Joburg and Lusaka were all much nicer and more helpful. After seeing first hand how they treat Americans I can only imagine how foreign visitors to our country are treated.

Andy,
Next trip over try BA. they don't loose guns anymore, They are handled completely different than normal bags. and they fly direct from London to Lusaka .
Steve