I would like to learn more about the Boers. Can anyone offer some advice on a good book that would tell the whole story? Thanks, smoker1

Find a book written by Denyse Reitz

"Adrift on the open veld"

Thank you Gerhard. Just looked at Amazon and found a used one for 71.00.....Kinda too much for me, but I'll keep looking. Africa has always fasicated me. Returned the first of June from a Safari with Hunters Hill Safari's. You have a very beautiful country. Phil

Here you go:

http://www.abebooks.com/servle...+open+veld&x=70&y=11

Some of these might also be of interest:

http://www.abebooks.com/servle...y=17&sts=t&x=47&y=10

Or some of these:

http://www.abebooks.com/servle...tby=17&sts=t&x=0&y=0

Or the Peter Becker books here:

http://www.abebooks.com/servle...tby=17&sts=t&x=0&y=0

James Michener's Covenant is a historical novel that will give you a lot of fact mixed with an entertaining storyline.

Thank you all for your help. I ordered three books incliding James Michener's Covenant. Saw a write up in one of the gun rags about the boers using a 7MM rifle and it inspired me to find out who these rough/tough looking people were. smoker1

The war from the Boer side:
Life on Commando during the Anglo Boer War, 1899-1902
by Fransjohan Pretorius


The War from the British and S.A. side:
Anti-Commando
Published 1931
by Victor Sampson and General Sir Ian Hamilton
Note - Victor Sampson was Judge of the Cape Supreme Court and the brother of Colonel Sir Aubrey Woolls-Sampson

X2 on Mitchner's "The Covenant". I read it just prior to my recent trip to RSA and found it really helped me relate to what I saw and experienced. Got into some great discussions with our Africaner guide and he also recommended it.

You should share a camp with our own Charl Van Rooyen (Infinito Safaris). He is a living encyclopedia of information about the Boer's. One day we plan on metal detecting some of their camps they occupied during the war.
Cheers,
David

Many of the Boer descendants still harbor (and rightly so) a grudge against the English treatment of Dutch POW's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War

If you want to take it a step further and learn about the Anglo-Zulu war, you might like to get hold of a recording called 'Day Of The Dead Moon' It ain't cheap but it is truly incredible.

http://www.anglozuluwar.com/da...he-dead-moon-cd-set/

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:
Many of the Boer descendants still harbor (and rightly so) a grudge against the English treatment of Dutch POW's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War

Funny you say that, I've been into many discussions with Afrikaners on why they refuse to speak english amongst themselves, when english only speaking clients are around, their answer is that they still harbor so much resentment towards the British that they don't want to speak their language. I think it's bad style regardless.

Steve

I agree. Even though I have some Dutch ancestors and speak some German, I seldom can interpret the Afrikaans.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:
Many of the Boer descendants still harbor (and rightly so) a grudge against the English treatment of Dutch POW's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War

Funny you say that, I've been into many discussions with Afrikaners on why they refuse to speak english amongst themselves, when english only speaking clients are around, their answer is that they still harbor so much resentment towards the British that they don't want to speak their language. I think it's bad style regardless.

Steve

i fully agree. it is one thing to speak Afrikaans around clients when a visitor in camp speaks only Afrikaans but quite another to use as the only language when the visitor is bilingual and the visit is more than a few minutes. when the conversation goes on for hours, it becomes down right rude.

Guess I really don't feel to bad about that as my PH ( one of the first black's to be certified ), spoke fairly good english but all of his trackers did not. I would think it very rude if they could speak english and didn't. smoker1

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their answer is that they still harbor so much resentment towards the British that they don't want to speak their language.

Huh! That is almost as bad as the Protestants still celebrating the Battle of the Boyne and rubbing the Catholics noses in it. They lost. They need to get over it. The Japanese seem to have done so!
Having said that I do hate the Vikings for invading England 1200 years ago! Bastards!
Peter.
PS. I seem to remember seeing a picture of Boer children in Boy Scout uniforms wearing Swastika armbands around WWII. Don't remember where I saw it. These guys were not angels.

I highly recomend (The Boer War) by Thomas Pakenham. Printed by Random House (copy right 1979). Long out of print but I found my copy at Amazon. The ISBN # is 0-394-42742-4. It is the type of book that you regret getting to the end. Over 600 pages & great old photos.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
I highly recomend (The Boer War) by Thomas Pakenham. Printed by Random House (copy right 1979). Long out of print but I found my copy at Amazon. The ISBN # is 0-394-42742-4. It is the type of book that you regret getting to the end. Over 600 pages & great old photos.

Here you go: http://www.abebooks.com/servle...e+Boer+War&x=57&y=12

quote:

Originally posted by Smoker1:
I would like to learn more about the Boers. Can anyone offer some advice on a good book that would tell the whole story? Thanks, smoker1

Pretty much like asking "I'd like to know about hunting........

To know the whole story involves a study of a nation that technically could start in 1652 with the landing at the Cape of Jan Van Riebeeck, but in fact has roots in European history even earlier than that date.

The tit-for-tat European battles that saw the Cape change hands several times between the main Eurpean powers certainly forged much of the mindset of the settlers who later formed the Boer nation which in turn is now the Afrikaner.

They certainly early on had a constant desire to escape governance, hence the various "treks" into the hinterland, but in turn they are also a god-fearing and disciplined lot hence the constant politics within there own ranks. Very complex, even to this day!

The main European blood lines which form the nation are Dutch (predominant) German & French, but there exists influence from many others as well including Danish, Portuguese, British and a host of others too. This has resulted in the nation having huge variances in their mindsets and talents. Their art, literature, science, law, politics and music all reflect this. Yet they also have some of the most conservative and unsophisticated mindsets in their midst too.

The Boer that was involved in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War cannot be typified as they were as diverse a lot as how I describe them in the previous paragraph.

Denys Reitz also wrote Commando, a Boer Journal of the Boer War and Trekking On. He was an extremely enlightened individual who had studied law in England prior to the war and became General Smuts’ adjudant during the conflict. Smuts himself was a superb strategic general, clever political strategist and statesman. Reitz’s descriptions of some of the internal conflicts clearly indicate the complicated mindsets which later led to what seems to concern Peter in his post regarding the Swastika kids.
Remember, the Germans were the major assistance to the Boers both in actual arms and political support. These people became incredibly impoverished as a result of particularly English influences. First the war that stole their independence, then the 1st World War which split them politically (Smuts was pro England and so soon after the Boer War) then the 1918 flu (also seen as brought home by the war) in 1922 a miners strike (The mines capital was English but many Afrikaners were forced to find work there because of the decimation of their farms) where-in Smuts, now firmly seen as pro English actually bombed the strikers with aircraft!
And you wonder why there were pro-Nazi sentiments amongst them at a time when few in the world really even understood what Nazi-ism was all about, or why some individuals still choose to speak their own language around strangers? (not clever if it’s a paying client, but that’s another story)

Much of this history is what lead them towards a “laager” mentality and which included the wide acceptance of Apartheid as a policy. Much of this talent is what enabled them to, in spite of international sanctions, make South Africa into a major powerhouse on this continent. It has also enabled many of them accept and in some cases to embrace the changes that came with democracy in the early 1990s.

Their ability for original thought has produced or improved many technologies including fuel-from-coal, nuclear power (the only nation to produce & then voluntarily discard a nuclear weapons program) ultra-deep level mining, a plethora of top-notch military innovations, the first ever heart transplant. Game ranching (in spite of the hunting fenced land debate) has increased conservation areas to far exceed the state contribution. This was again mostly the Boer making a plan in a land where typical agriculture is not always viable.

Smoker1, there’s a lot to say when someone asks “I would like to learn more about the Boers”

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Funny you say that, I've been into many discussions with Afrikaners on why they refuse to speak english amongst themselves, when english only speaking clients are around, their answer is that they still harbor so much resentment towards the British that they don't want to speak their language.

I can understand this.

I don't speak Yankee.

L. David I may need you to back me up un this one.

Well written and very interesting Stephen Palos. I look forward to learning more about the Boers. One thing I do know is that their country fascinates me. Thank you for writing. smoker1

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:
James Michener's Covenant is a historical novel that will give you a lot of fact mixed with an entertaining storyline.

+1

Also, some in Dixie have never gotten over the War Between The States. RSA "rednacks" are Northerners, British were "rooinekke" (red necks) and boer means (Dutch) farmer. Since it is confusing, better not to generalize. Making friends is more fun. Leaving politics and so on out of the hunting thing makes sense to me. Of course, I don't enjoy fighting...

Barry

The Covenant is a great read but I've no idea if it's historically accurate or not and perhaps some our Afrikaaner friends might know more about that?

quote:

shakari

Sure would be interesting to hear from them. Didn't get into politics etc. except to have the bartender tell me " The government takes our money but the roads are still bad ". Sound familiar?

"Three Years War " by Gen. Christiaan de Wet

was a very good read . The dedication reads :

"To My fellow Subjects of the British Empire "

Yeah the roads here are shit but are still better than places such as Tanzania & Uganda etc.

Regarding the history..... the Afrikaaner's history is indeed very interesting as is the history of their relationships with and between the Brits and the black Africans.... and how they all interrelate is complex in the extreme..... but if you want to understand Africa, you need to understand those relationships and the history because there's no doubt the Afrikaaners have moulded the entire African continent one way or another.

FWIW, I'm proud to say I have some very close friends amongst the Afrikaaners and generally they're bloody good people with a fantastic sense of humour.

The only thing you should never try to do with an Afrikaaner is match him drink for drink because they seem to have evolved some kind of alcohol sponge inside them and they just soak it up and walk away whereas any other bugger will fall over!

quote:

The Covenant is a great read but I've no idea if it's historically accurate or not and perhaps some our Afrikaaner friends might know more about that?

Our Africaner tour guide, who was incredibly knowledgeable himself, felt it was extremely well researched and perhaps more balanced in its approach then some of the true "history" books which generally focus on one side or the other.

"The only thing you should never try to do with an Afrikaaner is match him drink for drink because they seem to have evolved some kind of alcohol sponge inside them and they just soak it up and walk away whereas any other bugger will fall over"! Tried that on my last night, celebrating my Kudu.....still hung over when I hit the states .

.

Love Boer history and lore.

Have walked many of the Boer battle fields with private historical guides.

Much prefer the Boer version of history over the English version.

By comparison, the English version is boring.

.

Stephen that is about the best short summary that I have ever read. Thank you!
Peter.

More on Smuts and his speech to the crew of the Repulse when they docked in Durban. The POW and the Repulse were ordered by Winston Churchill to Singapore, despite the fact that an aircraft carrier would NOT be accompanying them:
When HMS Repulse reached Durban, Jan Smuts, addressed the crew. "We cleared lower decks just wanting Smuts to say his piece as quickly as possible ... I can recall not being in the least interested in... until, that is, he began talking ...he shattered our conceptions [of the Japanese military] stating ... if hostilities erupted we weren't going to be confronted by a race of inferiors...he felt the Japanese weren't in the least concerned by [the possibility of] conflict with Britain. He also made it clear that they possessed a fully modern air force. One comment that's never left me were the fatalistic words: he feared many of us wouldn't be returning from this mission and he'd pray for our safety during the troubled times ahead. None of us could possibly have imagined the accuracy of this prophecy...in a matter of weeks over 500 of the men in front of him that day would meet their end in the most terrifying of manners.
Peter.

Like all types of history, you will NOT get the FULL story from one book or even from doing a degree.

The Boers have a 500 year history and it is varied and diverse. Not all Boers went through the same history. The first 200 years must have been absolutely incredible and so difficult to imagine.

In my limited experience, I have come across a real mixed group of Boers from South Africa. They are all passionate and proud people. Many are christian in faith and I found that most are family oriented but that could be just the ones I have met. I found it interesting that some Boers I know spoke very poor English and there are a few who even acknowledge their black African ancestry from a long time ago, though under Apartheid they were considered whites! I even met a Boer family with Indian connections.

I found them to be very competitive people whether it is sport or work. (I wont mention the Rugby over the last 3 weeks!)

They do make very good friends!

quote:

(I wont mention the Rugby over the last 3 weeks!)

And I for one thank you for that!

You are a true sport & a gentleman

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Having said that I do hate the Vikings for invading England 1200 years ago! Bastards!
Peter.

peter

where do you think the good part of your genes came from

P.S the raids in 600-800 AD were merly powershopping at relatives, we allready settled the island long before that, remember saxons were nordic people too and we topped it of with the norman invasion later.(norman = men from the north) william the bastards father were danish and his name was rollo

all is well that ends well

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Having said that I do hate the Vikings for invading England 1200 years ago! Bastards!
Peter.

peter

where do you think the good part of your genes came from

So I'm ok then peterdk? I especially waited to disclose MY breeding so this thread could tick on a bit;

How's this for CLASSIC South African:
1/2 Irish (Both maternal grandparents)
1/4 Cypriot (My paternal grandfather)
1/4 Afrikaans/Boer (Paternal grandmother (1/2 of which is French (Momberg) 1/2 of which is Danish (Diederikson)))

I'm FULLY qualified to dislike the English

Plus one for Pakenham's Boer War history. For a beautifully written memoire of the war from a "bitter-ender's" perspective, find a copy of "Commando Courageous" by R.W. Schikkerling.
For a very good overview of the 1830s Great Trek north into the land of the Matebele and the Zulus, I strongly recommend "The Voortrekkers," by Johannes Meintjes. And for one of the great stories of life in ZA, you must read "Jock of the Bushveldt."
I treasure the South African friends I have made over the Internet, and greatly look forward to a visit.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Palos:
It has also enabled many of them accept and in some cases to embrace the changes that came with democracy in the early 1990s.

Interesting comment. For one reason or another, I've run into more than my share of white South Africans who have decided to leave the country in the last 10 years. Now that I think of it, none have been Afrikaners.

Dean

quote:

Bill/Oregon

Great info Bill. I'm starting a list. Thanks, smoker1

Smoker: Come to think of it, I have a spare copy of "The Voortrekkers." PM me your mailing address and you can have it.
Good read.

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The only thing you should never try to do with an Afrikaaner is match him drink for drink because they seem to have evolved some kind of alcohol sponge inside them and they just soak it up and walk away whereas any other bugger will fall over!

Boy that's the truth, I saw that in person! Anybody who can drink that S&*t in the "barbed wire wrapped bottle" is mucho malo in my book!