The left won in a landslide.

This probably means we get gun registration, and further destruction of our game animal herds- especially Tahr.
Not a good day for outdoors people over here.

Yes, a massive victory for the left with many on the right turning over their party vote to the left also.
I fear what you say is true. A Gun Registry for sure and much increased control pressure against our game resource.
Intersesting listening to PM Jacinda last night lamenting how polarised politics has become around the world and saying her government would be inclusive for ALL New Zealanders. I suspect hunters and shooters were not uppermost in her mind at that moment.

Sorry to hear this.

Why did it happen?

COVID?

Fair election?

Voter apathy?

Outside influence?

I'd love to hear a boots on the ground opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to hear this.

Why did it happen?

COVID?

Fair election?



Voter apathy?

Outside influence?

I'd love to hear a boots on the ground opinion.

If New Zealanders won’t vote labour, we will import people who will.

Some good news is that the ACT party picked up a lot of voters who have put 10 members into Parliament. The leader of ACT was the sole voice in Parliament to speak out against and oppose the indecent haste at which firearm reform legislation was introduced after the Christchurch massacre, remembering that National supported Labour on the initial legislation for removing military style and most other semi automatics that could be used with higher capacity magazines, so the Nats were not squeaky clean in this area.

The other good thing is that the 3rd on the ACT list of MPs going into Parliament, Nicole McKee, is a very pro gun advocate who has been involved in hunting, competition and fire safety instruction for many years and is a particularly good advocate for Maori in terms of encouraging them to obtain firearm licences and retaining their right to hunt for kai (food).

She has a high public profile after frequently featuring in the media with response to the firearm reform legislation and is also leads the Coalition of Licensed Firearms Owners (COLFO) an umbrella group for all firearms users in NZ.

Labour may have a good majority but they are not so stupid to realise they will have to sit up and take notice of the Maori voice, Nicole being one of them.

Sad for hunters etc. and for people in energy sector.....

Speak for all New Zealanders, doubt it! You might see the arrogance of such a victory. I hope not.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to hear this.

Why did it happen?

COVID?

Fair election?

Voter apathy?

Outside influence?

I'd love to hear a boots on the ground opinion.

A combination of reasons.
Covid, The volcanic eruption that killed quite a few people, and the massacre- the left was already in charge and they did well at keeping the fear going when it suited them.
The main right leaning party had a series of stupid mistakes and leadership changes 3 months out from election and many of the top brass saw the writing on the wall and quit politics at short notice. And finally a very popular leader in Ardern.

Not to mention that the government owns the news media in NZ so there has been virtually no reporting of anything that doesnt fit the leftist narrative. news presented how and when the govt allow it , swallowed hook , line, and sinker by a frightened population who belive the propaganda they are fed.

Welcome to socialism , comrades.....

Wow that sucks!

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Not to mention that the government owns the news media in NZ so there has been virtually no reporting of anything that doesnt fit the leftist narrative. news presented how and when the govt allow it , swallowed hook , line, and sinker by a frightened population who belive the propaganda they are fed.

Welcome to socialism , comrades.....

We may not be far behind. Add in social media, which doesn't have a National stake and it's a recipe for eventual disaster.

I wish you all well.

It is certainly making headlines around the world; seen several stories here in the US about her win.

In fairness to the other major party in our electoral system - this would be the election you would not want to win. Dragging the country out of the mire that we are currently in will be a long process and not one that I would want to be involved in

Having said that , the current govt has produced money out its arse and thrown it round with no thought of how it will have to be repaid. There has to be an end to that process - printing more money just makes us the Zimbabwe of the South Pacific - but at least we will be a Socialist Nation of poverty stricken peasants.

Nephew and his NZ-born partner gave their baby girl a middle of "Jacinda."

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
It is certainly making headlines around the world; seen several stories here in the US about her win.

The US leftist media is in love with Arden.

I've been in NZ for 28 years and seen the political landscape remain pretty stable.

The actual substantive difference between National and Labour is about 1 degree! Ok - may be 6 degrees!

When you compare National policies on social issues, they are closer to AOC & Bernie than they are to Biden.

Binary polarization is just dumbing us all down.

Basic gun ownership and hunting rights will not change. I doubt that a gun registry will come in soon. Far too expensive. Canada tried it. Other priorities will take the funds - Child poverty, health, affordable housing .....

NZ Parliament has the highest % of LGBT members! National & Labour. Lots of women leaders.

I do not see any of this as "Left or Right". They are both around the centre.

Even Act has moved to centre and stopped openly pandering to top 1% super rich. They will still be the voice of that small minority but they are broadening their base by targeting gun owners, hunters, etc.

Another thing to note is that recently a big gang of international money launderers was busted. That is a real worry. Money from drugs & people trafficking involved.

A major bank is in BIG trouble.

Naki, what dont you get about the fact that gun ownership has all ready changed. And with the next draft under way, will change further and quite quickly.
Hunting is under threat from a dept that has been given its head. Open and stated targeting of deer in the eastern ranges with 1080. New cull measures for sika in the kawekas. The destruction of Tahr, which believe me, if it continues will make it damn hard for hunters to find a true trophy bull and will see us loose ground from the place we are at now with up to 15 inch bulls being shot. To go back to the days when a 12 inch but was considered big. You dont remember those days, that was before your time here. Where tahr were only found in the most extreme, most dangerous country on the west coast. Read I think it was Chris Camerons article in an 80s copy of rod and rifle of getting a bull from the Copland. It was a big thing and first real article on a trophy bull to grace the magazine.
I know you love the Red Queen, But for most of us in the outdoors community. Hunter, farmers etc. The difference between Labour and the right on basic issues that effect us is immense!
Remember, we are not talking social issues here. yes both national and labour do a pretty good job on those and as kiwis we all expect that. However on the issues important to us here, the left is appalling.

The single good feature of this election is that labour doesnt need the Greens to govern. So with any luck that means that vile creature who was the Minister of Conservation will be gone , and a slightly less rabid version will replace it .

You might have been here for 28 years , Naki hunter - but you just dont have the same ethos and understanding of the destruction of our way of life that many of the rest of us have . I doubt you ever will.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
The single good feature of this election is that labour doesnt need the Greens to govern. So with any luck that means that vile creature who was the Minister of Conservation will be gone , and a slightly less rabid version will replace it .

You might have been here for 28 years , Naki hunter - but you just dont have the same ethos and understanding of the destruction of our way of life that many of the rest of us have . I doubt you ever will.

Holding my breath on that Muzza. I would not put it past Jacinda to give them an unimportant ministry such as conservation. The other worst minister of conservation was the labour Alliance years with Sandra Lee in the role. They seem to pick them.

And before you get upset at Muzzas second comment Naki, I think its fair. You are the only Kiwi on here who doesn't seem to feel the loss and threat coming out of this govt, and the only difference that could create that, is a different life history.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Naki, what dont you get about the fact that gun ownership has all ready changed. And with the next draft under way, will change further and quite quickly.
Hunting is under threat from a dept that has been given its head. Open and stated targeting of deer in the eastern ranges with 1080. New cull measures for sika in the kawekas. The destruction of Tahr, which believe me, if it continues will make it damn hard for hunters to find a true trophy bull and will see us loose ground from the place we are at now with up to 15 inch bulls being shot. To go back to the days when a 12 inch but was considered big. You dont remember those days, that was before your time here. Where tahr were only found in the most extreme, most dangerous country on the west coast. Read I think it was Chris Camerons article in an 80s copy of rod and rifle of getting a bull from the Copland. It was a big thing and first real article on a trophy bull to grace the magazine.
I know you love the Red Queen, But for most of us in the outdoors community. Hunter, farmers etc. The difference between Labour and the right on basic issues that effect us is immense!
Remember, we are not talking social issues here. yes both national and labour do a pretty good job on those and as kiwis we all expect that. However on the issues important to us here, the left is appalling.

Shanks I don't think you are quite getting it, where do you think the landslide votes came from for Labour? As pointed out by many in the know it came from National supporters, the farmers, rural people, who saw labour policy so close to National it was better to give them a majority of red in the house so the the Greens would be nullified exactly as the Red Queen is showing us now. She is telling it as it is, they have been given a mandate by a large population of kiwis and need nothing from the dangerous Greens who will be powerless to get anything their way. Act will also help to silence the Greens too and will be more likely to be listened to by the new Labour/National. The Red Queen is not srupid and she'll know that they have three years to retain the ex National vote, she won't blow that.

Yes, but not on issues such as hunting and firearms. That vote clearly went to ACT. Who sadly are in opposition. As far as farming gos, I understand the reasons, but its not a full mandate. Fear never is, and believe me as I sit here trying to work my way through the new regulations that affect me as a farmer, I can tell you labour is bad news. Just not as bad as the greens. Already I know I have no chance of complying with some of thier shit, and so will have to apply for resource consent each season at a cost to income and red tape.

Shanks.

I really do not want to get into an argument. I respect your views. Never had anything against you.

Yes gun ownership for semi autos and such kinds of guns has changed. 25 years ago one did not see AR15s and semi autos around. Even semiauto shotguns were not that common. Yes .22 semis were common.

99% of hunters (except duck hunters) will not be affected. I have no idea how it affects duck hunters with semiautos.

Tahr is a different issue. Much more complicated. I will support your rights to hunt Tahr 100%. I am totally against 1080. The National govt from 1993 onwards was a BIG fan of 1080. Let us not forget that.

The environmental issues are not clear to me.

However I look back to the mid 90s (National govt) when tahr numbers were reduced from around 6000 to 3000. They were shooting all animals without exception. They had the Judas tahr with radio collar to track the mob and culled them. In those days 15 inch bulls were unheard of. Even 12 inch was so rare.

Today tahr numbers are a lot higher. What is the right number? No idea. But we have a lot more animals and far better hunting than in 1995.

One problem I have with the Tahr lobby is the elitist private block people who want their cake to themselves. Some of them prevent Kiwis from accessing wilderness areas through their property etc. A big put off for me.

Finally - for me political issues are complex and varied. I will NEVER make decision on just one issue. Yes I love to hunt and I love my guns. But I did that in India for 15 years with such ridiculously strict regulations. So I guess I know both sides pretty well. I Know that NZ will never be that bad.

The bigger issue for me is our society, community, our people, our kids, the future generation. NZ culture is not just about guns & hunting.

The Right never bothered about those issues. Money, taxes, Big business, Polarisation etc. seem to be the same old agenda. My 3 young adult kids have student loans and a whole life to look forward to. Who is implementing policies that targets a good future for them rather than the same old trickle down BS? I guess my being a first generation immigrant has something to do with that focus & priority.

BTW I am not a fan of Red Queen or Black knight or Orange clown. This is serious business and I avoid such trivial labels, which only reduce credibility to a debate and leads to conflict.

You have a good day mate. Give me a call some time.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Naki, what dont you get about the fact that gun ownership has all ready changed. And with the next draft under way, will change further and quite quickly.
Hunting is under threat from a dept that has been given its head. Open and stated targeting of deer in the eastern ranges with 1080. New cull measures for sika in the kawekas. The destruction of Tahr, which believe me, if it continues will make it damn hard for hunters to find a true trophy bull and will see us loose ground from the place we are at now with up to 15 inch bulls being shot. To go back to the days when a 12 inch but was considered big. You dont remember those days, that was before your time here. Where tahr were only found in the most extreme, most dangerous country on the west coast. Read I think it was Chris Camerons article in an 80s copy of rod and rifle of getting a bull from the Copland. It was a big thing and first real article on a trophy bull to grace the magazine.
I know you love the Red Queen, But for most of us in the outdoors community. Hunter, farmers etc. The difference between Labour and the right on basic issues that effect us is immense!
Remember, we are not talking social issues here. yes both national and labour do a pretty good job on those and as kiwis we all expect that. However on the issues important to us here, the left is appalling.

Muzza

I am a Kiwi just like you. Just because I have a different view on politics does not make me less of a Kiwi.

You have absolutely NO RIGHT to judge or doubt my ethos, values etc.

Are you going to condemn 50% of Kiwis now just because of different political views?

If you think I will not match your expectations, that is YOUR problem and your PREJUDICE.

My experience is that Kiwis are a lot more respectful and considerate with far better manners than you have shown yourself to be, not just now but on other occasions too.

Totally uncalled for comments from you.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
The single good feature of this election is that labour doesnt need the Greens to govern. So with any luck that means that vile creature who was the Minister of Conservation will be gone , and a slightly less rabid version will replace it .

You might have been here for 28 years , Naki hunter - but you just dont have the same ethos and understanding of the destruction of our way of life that many of the rest of us have . I doubt you ever will.

I stand by my statement , pal. You dont get it , so you get "offended" and defensive .

I doubt we will ever see eye to eye , but we dont have to. I live by my standards and judge others against those standards.I have prejudices as does everyone . I also have manners - beaten into me by my old granny and her wooden spoon.

I also think the saying "as ye sow , so shall ye reap" is going to come home to roost like a big turkey very soon. The people you voted for are going to destroy the country I call my own and that irks me a lot. It should you too.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Shanks.

I really do not want to get into an argument. I respect your views. Never had anything against you.

Yes gun ownership for semi autos and such kinds of guns has changed. 25 years ago one did not see AR15s and semi autos around. Even semiauto shotguns were not that common. Yes .22 semis were common.

99% of hunters (except duck hunters) will not be affected. I have no idea how it affects duck hunters with semiautos.

Tahr is a different issue. Much more complicated. I will support your rights to hunt Tahr 100%. I am totally against 1080. The National govt from 1993 onwards was a BIG fan of 1080. Let us not forget that.

The environmental issues are not clear to me.

However I look back to the mid 90s (National govt) when tahr numbers were reduced from around 6000 to 3000. They were shooting all animals without exception. They had the Judas tahr with radio collar to track the mob and culled them. In those days 15 inch bulls were unheard of. Even 12 inch was so rare.

Today tahr numbers are a lot higher. What is the right number? No idea. But we have a lot more animals and far better hunting than in 1995.

One problem I have with the Tahr lobby is the elitist private block people who want their cake to themselves. Some of them prevent Kiwis from accessing wilderness areas through their property etc. A big put off for me.

Finally - for me political issues are complex and varied. I will NEVER make decision on just one issue. Yes I love to hunt and I love my guns. But I did that in India for 15 years with such ridiculously strict regulations. So I guess I know both sides pretty well. I Know that NZ will never be that bad.

The bigger issue for me is our society, community, our people, our kids, the future generation. NZ culture is not just about guns & hunting.

The Right never bothered about those issues. Money, taxes, Big business, Polarisation etc. seem to be the same old agenda. My 3 young adult kids have student loans and a whole life to look forward to. Who is implementing policies that targets a good future for them rather than the same old trickle down BS? I guess my being a first generation immigrant has something to do with that focus & priority.

BTW I am not a fan of Red Queen or Black knight or Orange clown. This is serious business and I avoid such trivial labels, which only reduce credibility to a debate and leads to conflict.

You have a good day mate. Give me a call some time.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Naki, what dont you get about the fact that gun ownership has all ready changed. And with the next draft under way, will change further and quite quickly.
Hunting is under threat from a dept that has been given its head. Open and stated targeting of deer in the eastern ranges with 1080. New cull measures for sika in the kawekas. The destruction of Tahr, which believe me, if it continues will make it damn hard for hunters to find a true trophy bull and will see us loose ground from the place we are at now with up to 15 inch bulls being shot. To go back to the days when a 12 inch but was considered big. You dont remember those days, that was before your time here. Where tahr were only found in the most extreme, most dangerous country on the west coast. Read I think it was Chris Camerons article in an 80s copy of rod and rifle of getting a bull from the Copland. It was a big thing and first real article on a trophy bull to grace the magazine.
I know you love the Red Queen, But for most of us in the outdoors community. Hunter, farmers etc. The difference between Labour and the right on basic issues that effect us is immense!
Remember, we are not talking social issues here. yes both national and labour do a pretty good job on those and as kiwis we all expect that. However on the issues important to us here, the left is appalling.

If you respect my views, then stop making stuff up and minimising.
25 years ago there were plenty of semi auto centerfires about. Sks And skk were common. I had guys here using what we called m16's incorrectly at the time. The Bar was popular as was the mini 30, m1 carbine, ruger semi in 44 mag, remington 7400. All were about and in common use. All i had contact with. Even owned a swedish m42b myself.
About half the shotguns in our crew were semi in 1995. I was using a second hand berreta 302 and we had 1187's, brownings and SKBs in our group.
National did not reduce the tahr from 6000 down to 3000 in the 90's I was hunting Tahr back then. Yes a 12 inch bull was good, but that was because of the situation a full decade earlier.
in 1993 Dennis Marshal, the national minister of conservation initiated the Thar management plan which set thier limit at 10,000. Some 10 years earlier hunters had fought and won a moratorium on culling Tahr.
So if you can show me a sudden change of heart 2 years later and a massive reduction to 3000, please do. FFS the historic low in the 80s was only 500 shy of that at 2500 animals.


Now, the current 1080 issue i brought up, is not a general issue of its use. Its the fact Doc now feels safe admitting they are targeting deer with it. When is not scheduled for that purpose and has always been seen as solely an unavoidable by kill.

Now I totally respect your choice in who you vote for. I will stand up for that right.
What I do not accept and think is wrong is your lack of support for the hunting and firearms community by way of mis representing and minimising facts and issues relevant to our culture.

Shanks

I did not minimise any facts.

It is true that there were far fewer semi auto rifles and guns around 25 years ago. I already acknowledged my ignorance about shotguns and duck shooting. Gun shops, gun magazines & gun shows are evidence. Just check old copies from 1990s. I still have some.

In those days combat guns were never seen in gun magazines articles or ads. That changed and now Rambo wanabes are targeted by the magazine ads. It started in the US and Australia and then NZ.

Just one private station (owned by former Indonesian President's son ???) had 3000 tahr culled. May be it was 6000 animals in one range that were reduced. My point is taht there are a lot more tahr around now than in 1995. I saw so many and shot some nannies in 2009 / 10 I think.

I am totally supportive of the hunting and firearms owning community since I am part of that. I have owned / bought & sold over 30 guns. I've restocked some as you have seen.

I've hunted more remote areas than most Kiwi hunters - Including 2 trips to Stewart island, remote back country in the Raukumaras, Mckenzie back country (no not the kind of mountains you have hunted ) and much more.

But I will not get brain washed by propaganda and partisan rhetoric. As I said - I am not into singular issue politics.

This polarised mindset is total BS. We kiwis are far better than this Trump like thinking.

I look at it from various angles. I ask myself what can't I live without in my life? What is most important to me? Yes Hunting and guns are VERY important, as you know personally. But my kids' future is far more important.

I am far more conservative in personal beliefs. I am a practicing Christian and a member and former Elder of a church. That is most important to me and my family. Those values of mine actually put me outside the Labour party. On the other hand, NZ has stopped appealing to Christian values for a long time. Kiwis are a lot more secular.

I actually voted for John Key. But I was very disappointed when he joined ANZ Bank after they were fined million for cheating customers in Australia! THAT shows true values.

Single issue politics & polarisation helps no one and just spoils relationships.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Shanks.

I really do not want to get into an argument. I respect your views. Never had anything against you.

Yes gun ownership for semi autos and such kinds of guns has changed. 25 years ago one did not see AR15s and semi autos around. Even semiauto shotguns were not that common. Yes .22 semis were common.

99% of hunters (except duck hunters) will not be affected. I have no idea how it affects duck hunters with semiautos.

Tahr is a different issue. Much more complicated. I will support your rights to hunt Tahr 100%. I am totally against 1080. The National govt from 1993 onwards was a BIG fan of 1080. Let us not forget that.

The environmental issues are not clear to me.

However I look back to the mid 90s (National govt) when tahr numbers were reduced from around 6000 to 3000. They were shooting all animals without exception. They had the Judas tahr with radio collar to track the mob and culled them. In those days 15 inch bulls were unheard of. Even 12 inch was so rare.

Today tahr numbers are a lot higher. What is the right number? No idea. But we have a lot more animals and far better hunting than in 1995.

One problem I have with the Tahr lobby is the elitist private block people who want their cake to themselves. Some of them prevent Kiwis from accessing wilderness areas through their property etc. A big put off for me.

Finally - for me political issues are complex and varied. I will NEVER make decision on just one issue. Yes I love to hunt and I love my guns. But I did that in India for 15 years with such ridiculously strict regulations. So I guess I know both sides pretty well. I Know that NZ will never be that bad.

The bigger issue for me is our society, community, our people, our kids, the future generation. NZ culture is not just about guns & hunting.

The Right never bothered about those issues. Money, taxes, Big business, Polarisation etc. seem to be the same old agenda. My 3 young adult kids have student loans and a whole life to look forward to. Who is implementing policies that targets a good future for them rather than the same old trickle down BS? I guess my being a first generation immigrant has something to do with that focus & priority.

BTW I am not a fan of Red Queen or Black knight or Orange clown. This is serious business and I avoid such trivial labels, which only reduce credibility to a debate and leads to conflict.

You have a good day mate. Give me a call some time.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Naki, what dont you get about the fact that gun ownership has all ready changed. And with the next draft under way, will change further and quite quickly.
Hunting is under threat from a dept that has been given its head. Open and stated targeting of deer in the eastern ranges with 1080. New cull measures for sika in the kawekas. The destruction of Tahr, which believe me, if it continues will make it damn hard for hunters to find a true trophy bull and will see us loose ground from the place we are at now with up to 15 inch bulls being shot. To go back to the days when a 12 inch but was considered big. You dont remember those days, that was before your time here. Where tahr were only found in the most extreme, most dangerous country on the west coast. Read I think it was Chris Camerons article in an 80s copy of rod and rifle of getting a bull from the Copland. It was a big thing and first real article on a trophy bull to grace the magazine.
I know you love the Red Queen, But for most of us in the outdoors community. Hunter, farmers etc. The difference between Labour and the right on basic issues that effect us is immense!
Remember, we are not talking social issues here. yes both national and labour do a pretty good job on those and as kiwis we all expect that. However on the issues important to us here, the left is appalling.

If you respect my views, then stop making stuff up and minimising.
25 years ago there were plenty of semi auto centerfires about. Sks And skk were common. I had guys here using what we called m16's incorrectly at the time. The Bar was popular as was the mini 30, m1 carbine, ruger semi in 44 mag, remington 7400. All were about and in common use. All i had contact with. Even owned a swedish m42b myself.
About half the shotguns in our crew were semi in 1995. I was using a second hand berreta 302 and we had 1187's, brownings and SKBs in our group.
National did not reduce the tahr from 6000 down to 3000 in the 90's I was hunting Tahr back then. Yes a 12 inch bull was good, but that was because of the situation a full decade earlier.
in 1993 Dennis Marshal, the national minister of conservation initiated the Thar management plan which set thier limit at 10,000. Some 10 years earlier hunters had fought and won a moratorium on culling Tahr.
So if you can show me a sudden change of heart 2 years later and a massive reduction to 3000, please do. FFS the historic low in the 80s was only 500 shy of that at 2500 animals.


Now, the current 1080 issue i brought up, is not a general issue of its use. Its the fact Doc now feels safe admitting they are targeting deer with it. When is not scheduled for that purpose and has always been seen as solely an unavoidable by kill.

Now I totally respect your choice in who you vote for. I will stand up for that right.
What I do not accept and think is wrong is your lack of support for the hunting and firearms community by way of mis representing and minimising facts and issues relevant to our culture.

I agree with Muzza, you just dont get it.
The magazines havnt changed. They still mostly promote bolt action rifles. David Tipple was doing semi auto adverts back as far as the 80's. Reloaders supply had them regularly in thier post out adds.Sportways gunshed as well. And what is a rambo wannabe? Ill tell you. Its a derogatory term that means nothing. You think it proves your point, when in reality it proves mine that you are arguing against firearm users.
THis has nothing to do with partisan politics. Kiwi firearms owners were scape goatee for an attack that was a direct failure of successive GOVT to fix a loophole and from police leadership that systematically undermined and underfunded the firearms licence system until A sngle foreign agent could walk into our country, with no permanent residence, brush past the security checks like they were not there to get a gun and get police permission to order 2000 rounds of ammunition.
If you do not understand the hurt and anger at the way we have been treated from all that then I cant help you.
In your first statement you said National reduced Tahr to 3000. Now you change that to one farm shot 3000. A private property/ private individual v the govt and public estate/herd. Either you were initially writing without a care for the truth, or deliberately misleading, minimising etc. Which is it?
The only relevance 1995 and tahr numbers has, is the work hunters did in getting herds up to where they were of last year. Now Im telling you that much of the country they inhabited as of last year is empty and if it continues then Our Tahr hunting resource is under threat. Tahr have been removed wholesale, bulls and all from much of the best and easiest access country for public land hunters. There is no argument on that. If that continues, we will be back to pre 90s level of trophy hunting where any bull will be considered a trophy. Im heading down in a few weeks, because it might well be my last chance in the years im fit enough to find a decent bull and the effects of this current cull will not be fully felt for 5-6 years as the young crop of bulls mostly shot will not have a chance to grow out.

The rest of your reply is irrelevant, as already stated, why and what you believe, who and why you vote is not important.
Its your inability to stand up and admit whats happened in the last 2 years has been wrong and that the hunting and shooting community has been treated appallingly. And the misinformation you keep using to stand by your stance. You are not supportive of the firearms and hunting community by any definition, and simply using guns does not qualify as support.
I on the other hand am. I am surrounded by hunters and have shooters and hunters here every week using my land for thier sports. Im talking with them and understand the affects from these events, I see the anger and sadness coming from our community at whats happened and what we face. Hell ACT getting such a strong vote, up from one mp to 10 tells you this was something of utmost importance too our community. 200, 000 votes up from 13,000.
So im not going to accept your BS. Here or anywhere.

Shanks

I see you are angry. Just don't direct it me because I don't agree with everything you say.

Your emotion is clouding your judgement. I NEVER disagreed with all your rants. Just read. You are looking for a target to rant your anger on. Please stop that mate.

I am every bit as passionate a hunter as you are. May not be as good a hunter but equally passionate.

I get it - some like you are single issue voters.

You need to also consider the country, the community and the PEOPLE who live here. ALL THE PEOPLE.

You really think that is irrelevant? It is you and Muzza who don't get it.

Think again - without our community, you have nothing left. You can have ACT and the giant corporations in control. You will not have the average Joe blog like me able to hunt or own guns - we just wont be able to afford it. We wont get access like we have now.

ACT will privatise ALL Hunting - period. Big companies will take over hunting rights to DOC parks. They will charge "user pay" fees for hunting. Their "free market" BS will kill hunting, health care, education, etc. It will destroy NZ and its unique egalitarian community life. They will destroy the environment - open up mining, oil, gas and all the land will be up for grabs - just like their Lobby funders are doing around the world. There will be no regulations and no controls.

90% of Kiwis are not interested in hunting anyway. Far less young people coming into the sport.

Where is the FUTURE of hunting going? NOWHERE. Show me ONE SINGLE program that ACT has funded or lead that will increase youth participation in hunting. Evidence with number of young hunters .....

ACT wants your vote. They care nothing about OUR life.

Why do I bother???I guess because to leave you unanswered leaves questions in the minds of other viewers who may not know whats really going on.
Truth is I cant reply to most of this as, its busllshit fabrication and I have no idea why you would propose it or use it in a reply.
Here we have an issue where we face threats on our way of life that exist right now from the current govt, and you go off on and ACT rant.
The one thing I can answer is Nicole McKee at number 3 in act and she has a proven history of leading firearms programs for youth and in regions of poverty. Where she has worked hard ot get firearms users legalised. Over half thier caucus is a licence holder.
But thats all subversion, you have taken this so far off track and fail to address the mistruths of your earlier posts. Thats why Im angry. Mispreresentation of our community from someone who claims to be from within.

Predictably Naki is still spouting the same old misinformed, distorted shit we have become familiar with.
Any fool in government can print $100 billion dollars then sit back and tell everyone it’s all OK.
Wait until his kids have to face the harsh reality of living in a NZ with a third world economy and Marxist social justice.
Saddling primary industry with additional compliance burdens in current economic conditions while ignoring the deplorable lack of national productivity but still supporting unionization of the labour force doesn’t make sense.
No wonder they appeal to Naki.

George Bernard Shaw has a quote that goes something like this

"Dont get into a fight with a pig in a puddle. You only get dirty but the pig enjoys it"

I am finished with your puddle Naki - you are obviously in denial of the situation and I cant be bothered with you any more.

Shanks

You are angry and lashing out.

My posts have not been mistruths at all.

Where we are at the moment for Tahr hunting is a lot better than it was 25 years ago.

Where we are as an economy is still better than it was after the great crash of 1990-91 (89 in the US). I know because I came here after that as a poor student and worked my way up.

I remember a time when Remuera the posh wealthy suburb in Auckland had recently been a labour seat under the Lange government!

I have seen NZ thrive with an increase of 1.3 million in population.

I have seen NZ gain the respect of the rest of the world with the way we are lead and the way most of us keep our heads on our shoulders and not get pulled in by the polarisation and far Right or far left politics.

I have seen how the old militant Union strong holds have gone. People are not forced to join unions, no bullying to do so and there is actual improvement in how laws are followed and consultation happens in the work place.

Like I said in another thread Shanks, let ACT show me that they can win seats in all parts of NZ and among the poor and working class people. Then I will start considering them as a serious and credible option to lead a government.

The reason I personally entered this debate is to debunk the BS that ACT is some how a trustworthy party with credible leadership that is going to do great things for ALL New Zealanders.

I wanted everyone else to be aware that ACT is an extreme Right wing party diametrically opposite the Greens in most ways with no consideration for community values or for the common working family.

ACT in the past tried to bring in American Right wing lobby groups and corrupt our political system.

I am waiting to see if ACT can actually deliver for ALL Kiwis and not just for a tiny minority and for giant business corporations.

The world changes. Society changes. That is progress. "The way it used to be" is mostly BS when our country is so stable and going forward. No country on earth except those with civil war and those ruled by tyranical despots can truly argue in favour of "way it used to be".


That is history. That is human development. Those who can adapt always thrive.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Why do I bother???I guess because to leave you unanswered leaves questions in the minds of other viewers who may not know whats really going on.
Truth is I cant reply to most of this as, its busllshit fabrication and I have no idea why you would propose it or use it in a reply.
Here we have an issue where we face threats on our way of life that exist right now from the current govt, and you go off on and ACT rant.
The one thing I can answer is Nicole McKee at number 3 in act and she has a proven history of leading firearms programs for youth and in regions of poverty. Where she has worked hard ot get firearms users legalised. Over half thier caucus is a licence holder.
But thats all subversion, you have taken this so far off track and fail to address the mistruths of your earlier posts. Thats why Im angry. Mispreresentation of our community from someone who claims to be from within.

Mate

You know nothing about me. You are talking total BS.

I personally have a long history in the primary sector. In at least 2 different industries.

I have dealt with communist unions and violent unions (including threat to my life). I never suggested that NZ needs more unions. I know of no major leader in power who is demanding that.

In 1992, the Primary industry was in the deep dumps. Farmer suicide was very high. Income on farms was very low for 4 years at least. Since then things have changed a lot. Farms have become much more profitable. Many farmers are now millionairs with very valuable properties. they have worked hard for it, just like most other Kiwis have worked hard.

Scaremongering is just BS.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:
Predictably Naki is still spouting the same old misinformed, distorted shit we have become familiar with.
Any fool in government can print $100 billion dollars then sit back and tell everyone it’s all OK.
Wait until his kids have to face the harsh reality of living in a NZ with a third world economy and Marxist social justice.
Saddling primary industry with additional compliance burdens in current economic conditions while ignoring the deplorable lack of national productivity but still supporting unionization of the labour force doesn’t make sense.
No wonder they appeal to Naki.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
George Bernard Shaw has a quote that goes something like this

"Dont get into a fight with a pig in a puddle. You only get dirty but the pig enjoys it"

I am finished with your puddle Naki - you are obviously in denial of the situation and I cant be bothered with you any more.

He is an Idiot with no back story but plenty to say about things he has no knowledge of "a blow in" put him on "ignore" & enjoy the site !

What??? I should not be surprised but I am incredulous. You know what, Good for you Naki! I hope that all works for you and that you continue to adapt and thrive.
Im going to take Muzza's advice and step out of the puddle. As there is really nothing worth saying that hasn't been said and I have no interest in continuing this pointless conversation with you.

You guys are the ones in a puddle Shanks.

Just think about it. You are getting so wound up about an Extremist party which got 13,000 votes last time and a few more party votes this time but no extra elected MPs.

That is not ALL New Zealand. It is a tiny elitist minority. A tiny little puddle.

Act will get wiped out just like NZ first got wiped out.

It is really sad we had to end like this.

You have a good night.

“NEWS FLASH”
Ex New Delhi typing pool tea boy becomes chief political analyst for the Looney Left Weakly.
All hail the new oracle.

quote:

“NEWS FLASH”
Ex New Delhi typing pool tea boy becomes chief political analyst for the Looney Left Weakly.
All hail the new oracle.

Hey, nice touch! Very classy! You guys are a close match for OPUS1, JTEX, etc.
Let's see. Ardern's party will govern without a coalition, for the first time in 24 years. Record turnout of voters, and you guys don't like it! Ain't democracy a bitch! Pity this forum has become like the PF.
Peter

Yes you are correct. We dont like it. But your reply fails to recognise we have good grounds for not liking it and to be concerned.
With the exception of one poster, thus thread is and has been about the effects on us as hunters and firearms users. And the potential effects to come. Not one of us has blamed democracy for that.
And if this forum has become like the PF, then its because one member is shitposting here as he does there.

quote:

Ex New Delhi typing pool tea boy becomes chief political analyst for the Looney Left Weakly.

Harsh man , just harsh

You have a problem with that, you can go to Antarctica or Siberia. Bigot.

quote:

Originally posted by Ridgeman:
“NEWS FLASH”
Ex New Delhi typing pool tea boy becomes chief political analyst for the Looney Left Weakly.
All hail the new oracle.