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Well most of you fellas know that i take my sambar hunting seriously and i find its a top way of having a hunt,its also a bloody hard business successfully taking a sambar stag of any sort of size..even the little blokes are a tough task and i have been doing it for a lot of years and it dosent get any easier.Anyway get to the point,being an ADA member for a lifetime i read the hunt reports religously from all the ADA sub branches and it never ceases to amaze me how so many interstate hunters shoot big sambar stags on relatively short duration hunts,WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? How do they do it? It makes us sambar hunters wonder and i mean wonder,we are the fellas with the deer in our backyard and dont get the same results,we can hunt many many times throughout the year for zilch. ...and often many of these blokes turn up once a year and take stags,sometimes the whole party take big stags...hmmmm!As has been evidenced by published articles etc.Wondering all bloody right. ADA =australian deer association Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | ||
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Gryphon I attended an SCI conference once in Sydney and shared a mini-bus with a Melbourne member. On the way to the airport he claimed, completely out of the blue, that most big sambar trophies are shot by spotlight. He said he had hunted by the usual means for two years, and then got one by using a spotlight. "Everyone does it" he claimed. Of course you know that spotlighting deer is illegal but maybe some other readers do not. I think we would agree on whether it is sporting or not (NOT!) as well. I do NOT AGREE with his claim most sambar trophies are taken that way. Certainly some and obviously HIS were. | |||
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The blokes "in the know" usually find out about which ones were taken like that as their mates that do know are often jealous enough to rightfully denigrate such heads and 'spill the beans" as they say. I had one of the almost pro spotlighters point out a few heads on the current register that were taken in such a manner. Not all the monsters are taken in the light,here is one taken this year after a lot of hard pre season work by Bruce P. by stalking and he is a monster too. Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Ethics is a tuff one as where does it end.Here in NZ we have no seasons so stags are shot in vevlet and hinds in fawn,its not illegal to spotlight deer but is illegal to spotlight on DOC/public land. What about using dogs to hunt deer?? "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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top photo. mate i agree 100% the amount of sydney guys that would shoot a stag on there first or second hunt was amazing. One guy I know reconds he shot 3 stags in one trip! Cheating prick!!! I have been trying for 15 years- no antlers -yet! thats why i have moved down here. Lets see what this winter brings..... | |||
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But you wouldn't really make a hoot and dance about shooting a small stag. Maybe out of 100 hunts, what's been reported is the 3 that took a great head??? I got out of the ADA when I recognised some had a holy attitude only in public ... but its human nature I suppose. Cheers... Con | |||
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Con, bloody hell! I'd make a song and dance over a small head, if it was taken legally! As most here would admit (even to themselves, if not publicly) that ANY Sambar, taken 'fair chase' will beat any spotlighted 'trophy' hands down. Odd too, that I left the ADA for the same reason as you...... Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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well thats good to here a few experienced deer hunters that strugle to fing stags... thats good to hear it means im not doing anything wrong, iv hunted sambar for about 5 years and havent even seen a stag that i could have shot seen a few spikys but never a stag. About the in experienced people shooting stags i had a bloke start hunting sambar with me 1st trip he put a hind up 1st time hes seen adeer stood there in shock. 2nd trip 24"stag stands broadside at 20m from him he shot and i tracked it for 7 hours before losing it, it was never found. As for spotlighting a 6" shot legally would mean a hell of a lot more TO ME than a 36", iv always said if i shoot something behind the wire or in the light ill hang it upside down so everybody knows but i still havent got a head on the wall either way up! | |||
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Ms AZ and I talked about this subject last night. She is a mountaineer (I am as well, but not like her), and reminded me the question of ethics is a huge controversy in that sport. Getting tugged up Everest on a short rope is not the same as doing it youself; using sherpas to carry everything but the kitchen sink is not the same as an alpine style ascent. She calls it a question of purity, and that is a good way to characterize it in hunting as well. The more "pure" your hunt, the better you should feel about it. Is it legal to hunt out of a helicopter in NZ? Of course. Is it ethical? Not for me, but it might be for you. Is it a purer form of hunting than climbing the hill? No way. Not for me, and not for you. In the world of sheep hunting, Archie Nesbitt has shot just about everything in the world with a bow. Does that make him a better hunter and a more "pure" hunter than the handful of guys that have done it with a rifle? You bet your ass it does and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. If you disagree, think about this: anyone who has a copy of Ovis or Grand Slam knows Archie's name. They sure can't name the others. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sambar 9.3: Con, bloody hell! I'd make a song and dance over a small head, if it was taken legally!QUOTE] Dave, What I meant was not in print ... but yes I agree any animal taken in fair chase is to be cherished. Since moving north of the Divide and finding time finally to hunt semi-regularly, the hunting spots I frequent are full of hinds. I hunt them because I enjoy the challenge and love the meat. Earlier this year, mates and I jumped a lovely 20" stag ... the sight of antlers had wrecked my worklife ... wondering if he's still there, how will I chase him, where might he be ... when I should be working . Chasing him will add a new dimension to the game that I cant understand how people would enjoy by using an electric light ... or adding fresh dogs into a hound hunt. Spotlighters wreck it for everyone in more ways then they can imagne. My missus for example hated deer hunters with a passion ... because she was almost killed when her horse shied at a Sambar stag rising from the road-edge with half its lower jaw missing. Only now having enjoyed the spoils of the hunt, seen the country, watched the dog working ... can she see the "good" side of it. Cheers... Con | |||
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Bakes seeing your comments elsewhere, would you spotlight a sambar stag a call it a trophy? | |||
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Con, I wasn't having a dig at you, sorry if you took it that way. To me (JMHO) any Sambar taken 'fair chase' is a trophy, regardless of antler size. But then, most of my deer hunting is Fallow, simply because of my mobility issues, it's far easier to organise to sit over a patch of ground that Fallow use (mostly farm fringe) than Sambar, altough I do try to get away into Sambar country as often as I can, but they are far and away the greatest challenge for me at the moment. Once you get bitten by the Sambar bug, there's no going back! Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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Dave, Absolutely no offence taken. I understand where your coming from. Cheers... Con | |||
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What makes taking a Sambar stag under fair chase conditions so difficult? I understand about the terrain and the habitat ect, but it must be something more than that. Either you are lousy hunters (which I don't think so! ) or there must be something else...Are the stags particularly nocturnal? Are there numbers really low? Just curious, why the spotlighters find it so easy but but fair chase is so difficult.. regards, Pete | |||
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Here in NW Arkansas, the forests are very thick and good Whitetail bucks are very hard to take, except for a few days during the rut. Many of the best heads are killed illegally by spotlighting. Did those spotlighters get the pleasure of long days hunting for sign, watching good areas, or quiet solitude in the woods--probably not. When they have their illegally taken head mounted and on the wall-- is it something that causes pleasure or something that causes shame? The legal hunters who have not taken an easy or shameful way to get a trophy, they have had the pleasure of the hunt and justifiable pleasure/pride in their hard earned trophy. The big head on a spotlighter's wall is a never ending mental reminder of his shameful activity. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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Pete I am a very inexperienced sambar hunter and maybe some of the experts here can add:
Sambar generally live in thickly forested mountainous country in Victoria where hunting is hard, and sighting the game from afar is not usual. Sambar do not live in large herds, but generally from one to three animals. The average density of sambar was once estimated as one animal per each 1.5 square kilometres. And seeing the 1.5 square kms is thick mountain forest it makes it harder. I read a survey a eon ago and the reported success rate from stalking sambar was 0.08 deer per trip (probably a weekend). That is not just stags but any sambar deer. I think it was about 0.5 deer sighted per trip.
Never tried spotlighting so can't comment . I believe the spotighters drive the country roads and tracks. I imagine like most deer species is they are stupid in the spotlight. | |||
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Nitro, How long is the season for Sambar stags? Is there a lot of hunter pressure? When I had a lease on a block of forestry in Scotland it had mainly Roe deer but also a few Red as well..Our seasons are year round, and we would try to spend at least one long weekend up there each month, sometimes more in the summer around the rut ect. It was probably 18 months before we started seeing Red hinds with any regularity and then it would only be one or two sightings a weekend..The stags however were simply absent most of the time and only came onto our ground for the duration of the rut..Trying to time a stalking trip up there when the stags were present when you live 7 hours away was always very difficult.. In the five years we had the ground, of the group of us who travelled up, I was the only one who took a half decent 10 point stag...most of us took younger stags each year, and there were bigger stags around, but catching the buggers was quite difficult..With regards the roe, as they were presnt in reasonable numbers all year round, success was much more regular for everybody concerned... For the guys who lived locally, it was a different matter and they had much better success on Red stag simply beause they spent more time on the ground and could react to changing circumstances quickly..a hard frost at the right time of year would trigger the stags to roar and they would be close enough to take advantage of that... The habitat of your sambar can't be any thicker than some of the commercial forstry blocks we stalk..I suspect the big differences are the deer density's are lower and that perhaps Sambar stags must be very noctural??? Regards, Pete | |||
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Pete here are a few of Masons words re sambar and i wholeheartedly agree with him that these animals are a notch or three up the ladder from other deer.
Posts: 87 | Location: Victoria Australia | Registered: 07 September 2002 | |||
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Why is it so easy to shoot deer with a spot light,because they just stand there or walk around in small circles,they just trun into zombies. I have shot quite a few deer with spot light mainly deer that have escaped from a deer farm,its not hard to get within 10-15 yards of the deer on the ATV/4 wheeler motorbike if you hold them in the light. I use mainly 22mag as i will be out possum shooting at the time just head or neck shoot the deer. No this it not hunting,but does fill the freezer. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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