WHAT IS A.45 BLASER ROUND . WHAT IS IT COMPARED TO.

The strong caliber for driven hunts

Today, the majority of hunted game in Central Europe is wild boar and roe deer. The importance of combination and driven hunts is increasing drastically.

Shooting on short and middle ranges is charcteristic for this type of hunting, making it necessary to select a suitable caliber. High stopping power and low sensitiveness to obstacles in the bullet's trajectory as well as best possible preservation of the game meat are central criterias.

Together with the ammunition manufacturer W. Romey, Blaser has revived the classic .45 caliber. The .45 Blaser cartridge with the 22,7g bullet was designed for hunting in the woods and cleanings. The bonded bullet is superb on accuracy and excellent with its stopping power. The round nose minimizes deflection by bone, muscle or other obstacals and allows for a deep straight wound channel. The heavy jacket allows for controlled expansion and provides 80 to 85% weight retention.

Ballistic Data:

Caliber: .45 Blaser (11.7 x 55)
Bullet: 22.7g (350grs)
TMR Compound Core
Most Rec. Dist.:
120m
V0: 620 m/s
E0: 4429 Joule
V50: 536 m/s E50: 3258 Joule
V100: 473 m/s E100: 2537 Joule

RIGHT OFF THE BLASER WEB-SITE !!!!


For those who are "metrically" challenged this translates to:

350gr bullet

Muzzle Velocity of 2035 fps (3265 ftlbs)

50-yd Velocity of 1760 fps (2400 ftlbs)

100-yd Velocity of 1550 fps (1870 ftlbs)

For you.45/70 fans, aren't the numbers for the .45 Blaser faily close to .45/70 performance - all in a package designed for use in a bolt action rifle??
- mike

What is the overall cartridge length of the .45 Blaser?

quote:

Originally posted by blaser93:
WHAT IS A.45 BLASER ROUND . WHAT IS IT COMPARED TO.

An other stupid creation from Blaser!!

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
....... Blaser has revived the classic .45 caliber.....

I didn't know the .450 calibres needed "reviving".

I think the .45 Blaser is one of the best ideas going! I wish they would imort them into the states, wha a perfect round for Black Bear, and Hogs

Aleko

Why not just chamber the Blaser for .458 Lott? They make Blasers in 416 Rem Mag, so the 458 Lott would not be a big deal. And guys who want 45-70 performance can easily download it.

45 Blaser shown below.



In the field.



Testimonial:

quote:

My home country is Namibia. I hunt for roebuck in Germany and for buffalo in Africa, all with my familiar R 93. I know how important it is to master the rifle with your eyes closed. The third and fourth shot follow with lightning speed, and have already saved me on quite a few occasions.

Blaser93,

Here's the aamunition link straight from the horse's mouth - the Blaser website which includes a couple of photos of the .45 Blaser.

http://www.blaser.de/english/produkte/accessories/45blaser.htm

Gerry

Gentlemen

A perfect solution to a nonexistent problem

Would been better if blaser started to chamber 10,75X68.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

When the Blaser stops functioning, this wise hunter can obviously use the "Chinese throwing star" mounted on the front of his hat to save himself from the charging buffalo!

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:


When the Blaser stops functioning, this wise hunter can obviously use the "Chinese throwing star" mounted on the front of his hat to save himself from the charging buffalo!

Erik D.

Priceless


Do you think blaser will hire us as Ambassadors

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Sometimes, I wonder why people who have nothing positive to contribute, don't just shut up all together??

The discussion started out about a particular caliber, designed to do a particular task - one, which I may add, hardly (if at all) exists in Norway, and only to a very limited extent in Sweden. So with all your experience in hunting driven boar, you conclude that this caliber, with which you have no personal experience, is no good, largely because it carries the Blaser name. You are exhibiting typical crowd behaviour, someone shouts "boo", and the others feel safe to join in.

It even comes to the point, where well educated people, who have travelled the World, find it necessary to ridicule what hunters choose to wear in other countries. I would have assumed that world-travel would have opened your mind to other cultures, but maybe that was forgotten during the long and dark Norwegian winter? Sad though, that participants on an international forum show little appreciation for cultures other than their own.

Before I get off my soapbox, maybe I should just mention, that no I don't own a .45 Blaser, and I don't necessarily plan to buy one. But not owning one, does not automatically qualify me to pour scorn on something I know little about, rather it should animate me to ask questions and seek information to expand my horizon. And no, I don't wear any hat ornaments - neither fox fangs formed like an Edelweiss (or as you prefer to deignate it "a Chinese throwing star"), nor any other sort of hat ornaments. But I find this way of utilizing parts of animals you have hunted, quite appealing, at least in the sense that it honours the animals by creating something traditional and artistic with their remains. At least better than simply confining your quarry to the rubbish bin.

- mike

P.S. 500grains, the idea of using the .458 Lott, and why this apparently has not been done by the factory, was covered in some depth in a recent thread. I'm sure you'll remember, that issues of feeding were cited as the main reason. The Lott itself would have been unnecessarily powerful for driven boar, and I doubt the majority of the potential customer base for the .45 Blaser handload.

To me the .45 Blaser has lots of merits as a midrange round. The ballistics are ideal for the ranges normal drives are shot at. Here in the US what ever a good loaded 45 70 will do the .45 Blaser will do, even better it is in an R93!


Aleko

Sorry to open up a hornets nest.I just wanted more information. My favorite rifle is the Blaser R93. JOHAN does not like the Blaser 93
because of bad experinces. he's intitled to his opinion, but he rains on anybody's parade having to do with the R93.Thanks for the info
enjoy learning more and more.

Gentlemen, I have spoken to the USA Blaser people, in person 3 times, and to Germans from the factory, in person twice. As of now the 45 Blaser is not comming to America. I had even persuaded someone to send me a bbl, but I was told in excited German American, There will be no AMMO!
Why I do not know, as Aleko has stated it is the perfect midrange caliber for bear, hogs and other game shot in close and in heavy cover.

For those of you who do not under stand the concept, I will try to explain it to you.

First the POWER: As anyone who has used a 350gr .458 bullet at 2000 fps it has a lot of knock down/stay down power for game up to 1000 lbs or so.

The recoil is not too bad in light short rifles.

The 45 Blaser was designed so the 350 gr bullet could be launched at the desired velocity with out high pressure. The rimless case head fits the same bolt face as the 9,3x62, 30-06 etc. so another bolt head is not required. Making changing to the 45 Blaser cheaper and easier in the field. Then the fat case is necked down to .458 with a sloping shoulder so it feeds very smoothly. The rebated case head is not a problem because of the way the Blaser magazine works.
For the type of hunting the 45 Blaser was designed for it is superior to the big magmums [less recoil].
While I would rather have a 458 Win Mag and load it down as I have a lot of 458 brass. [I cannot get the factory to make me one of those either ]. If the 45 Blaser was marketed in America I would probably get one.
It is an ingenious design that solves a real hunting situation.
What did the Short Mags bring really new to the table.
Just cause it looks different and you do not understand it.....
DON'T HATE

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
....... etc ........

It even comes to the point, where well educated people, who have travelled the World, find it necessary to ridicule what hunters choose to wear in other countries. I would have assumed that world-travel would have opened your mind to other cultures, but maybe that was forgotten during the long and dark Norwegian winter? Sad though, that participants on an international forum show little appreciation for cultures other than their own. ....

.... any hat ornaments - neither fox fangs formed like an Edelweiss (or as you prefer to deignate it "a Chinese throwing star"), nor any other sort of hat ornaments. But I find this way of utilizing parts of animals you have hunted, quite appealing, at least in the sense that it honours the animals by creating something traditional and artistic with their remains.

Mike

Personally I found Erik's throwing star comment very very funny. It was only a joke.

I think using fox fangs in that way is an absolutely fantastic idea. I didn't know these were fox fangs. Getting a large number of foxes here should be relatively easy.

I like these European traditions and mode of dressing etc seen in some of the European gunmaker websites. Very different to what I am used to.

450No2NE

Good explanation on what it's purpose is. I suppose this round can be loaded in the non-Safari or African model (where the .416 and .375 are loaded) with less weight.

Still the .45 calibre didn't need 'reviving' as it has always been very alive and kicking (pun intended).

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

P.S. 500grains, the idea of using the .458 Lott, and why this apparently has not been done by the factory, was covered in some depth in a recent thread. I'm sure you'll remember, that issues of
feeding were cited as the main reason.

Actually I do not recall seeing that information, but if German engineering can get the radically rebated rim of the .45 Blaser to feed, then I am sure they could come up with something for the .458 Lott. There is certainly a demand for Blasers in .458 Lott, and the opportunity cost of not offering the rifle in that caliber is significant.

For a pig hunting gun, why not a Colt Lightning?



Per what I mentioned on another thread, I think Blaser should start making a production gun like this (3 triggers, traditional safety):



As for the Namibian's hat, perhaps we are taking this too seriously. Personally I appreciate some levity from time to time.

500Grains,
Actually the real reason Blaser does not make a 458 Win Mag or a 458 Lott is a feeding problem. From what I have been told, they feed with X bullets, ie pointed, 100%. The problem is with the Round Nose bullets.

The 45 Blaser is a semi-weight barrel, between the standard sporter and the Safari contour. Blaser makes a lot of different semi-weight bbls. I have never seen one in the US.

Maybe if ALL the AR members emailed Blaser every day for a 45 Blaser bbl and ammo for America, they would have a change of heart. Even if YOU do not want one, YOU could help me, Aleko, and a few others out.
We would like to have a 45 Blaser bbl.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Mike

Personally I found Erik's throwing star comment very very funny. It was only a joke.

Exactly.

Mike, If you can't see the humor in my "Chinese throwing star" comment, then you really need to take a chill pill IMO. However, I am hoping you just had a bad day, and thus would otherwise have understood that it was just a joke.

As for understanding (or not) the need/use of the 45 Blaser, and saying that it is no good, I can't see where anything related to that is mentioned in my post as you imply. I would also say that the "crowd behaviour" you accuse me of is uncalled for. I owned a Blaser in 375H&H for several years, and later sold it as it wasn't to my taste. So I would think that I am entitled to an opinion on their rifles (although I know nothing, nor pretend to know anything about the 45 Blaser calibur).

As for appreciating various cultures, you don't know a damn thing about what I do or don't appreciate. But your first assumption is undoubtably correct, as I greatly enjoy seeing and experiancing other cultures. However this doesn't mean that I can't see the humor in some things now and then. Just as I can see the humor in some of the traditions here in Norway.

I would advise that you are more careful when making accusations in the future.

Jeez, it was only a joke!

I suspect that with hunters from so many different backgrounds on this forum that it's easy to mistake someone's intentions just reading the written words without knowing anything about the author.

I found the "throwing srar" comment funny but must admit that I am, on occassion, put off by some of the seemingly harsh comments about the choices others make with respect to hunting equipment. This is especially relevant to the issue of the .45 Blaser which seems to me to be almost a perfect albeit specialized round for what it was intended --- short range shooting at running animals in thick brush. No doubt most Americans would say "What the heck just hand me my Marlin or Winchester in 45/70 or 450 Marlin and I have the "perfect rifle and cartridge". Unfortunately I don't think most of our European friends have the luxury or our variety but do have the ability to buy a new barrel in 45 Blaser for their Blaser 93.

As we say here in America, "Whatever floats your boat works for me". Translation--if it works for you, go for it!

Erik, I have come to respect you as both intelligent, cosmopolitan and experienced in matters of hunting and rifles in the past. I have enjoyed communicating with you, just like I enjoyed seeing your kid(s), and sharing that joy with you.

I have absolutely no problem with the fact that you chose to sell your Blaser R93. You made a decision based on your experience with the rifle, and that was it. I have enjoyed that you have been able to represent your relationship with that rifle, and its Mauser replacement, in an intelligent and balanced manner. It speaks for you, that you don't view the World in black and white.

I believe the discussion in this thread was not really about Blaser rifles. Rather it was about "things labelled Blaser" - in this case, a caliber from Blaser, specifically intended for use on driven boar. But, apart from taking part in the discussion in general, I don't believe you actually commented on this particular subject. Consequently, my comments regarding this particular matter can't apply to you.

Naturally, there is still a connection, since your post came as one of a series regarding the .45 Blaser caliber. Posts I perceive as uninformed, and based on little factual knowledge with either the caliber or the task it is intended for. I assert, that these comments were made largely based on the name connection between Blaser and the caliber in question, as opposed to the merits (or otherwise) of the caliber itself. This follows a pattern, where contributors to this forum seem to have a need to reconfirm their negative opinion about the Blaser R93 at every possible occasion. Since we all know (and respect) that opinion, I fail to see the need to get involved in every discussion and deliver the same message time and again. It seems to me to be driven by a motivation of being recognized as an entity on the board, as opposed to contributing anything of value. Personally, if I don't believe I have anything positive to contribute about a particular subject, I try to stay out of it all together, at least the second, third, ... time round it is discussed. To each his own, I suspect.

In any event, as I stated above, your ethnic comments were not really related to the subject at hand, but came as one in a series of rather uninformed tirades. Consequently, it was probably taken in the same vein. If you say it was meant as a joke, I can naturally accept that. Perhaps my irritation about your post, was that I had not expected something like that from a person, who has travelled as extensively as you have. I guess I still believe travel expands your mind, and makes you open to cultures other than your own. That was the way I have seen you in the past, and was thus surprised, that I might have been mistaken. But if, as you say, it was meant as a joke, it must obviously be seen in a less sinister context.

Personally, I would not not wear ornaments like the fox fang Edelweiss. I don't tend to be very ornamental in my hunting gear. On the other hand, I appreciate the tradition and the urge to honour your animals by artistic means. The more we understand and appreciate about our various cultures, the better we will understand each other - across all borders.

- mike

Mike,

As you stated, you prefer to stay out of discussions regarding things you know little or nothing about. And I generally agree with you 100%, as I prefer to do the same.

BUT! When I saw the picture and caption from Blasers website of the hat with the fox fang Edelwiess, the first thing that came to mind was how much it resembled a "Chinese Ninja throwing star". Maybe I'm childish, but I found this kind of amusing. And it appears that I'm not the only one.

Wouldn't the world be pretty sad and boring if we all lost our sense of humor? I know for a fact that my travels have taught me to look for the bright, and humorous side of things when possible. Had I not, many of the difficulties, dangers and malevolence we encountered would have turned our experiances into bad memories instead of fond ones. And this includes being able to joke about oneself too, which is maybe the most important IMO.

I too appreciate tradition, and it was not my intention to hurt anyones feelings. I'm considered a rather conservative and traditional person here in Norway. But I'll try to continue to see the light and humorous side of my countrys traditions just as I will continue to do so with others when appropriate.

Mind you, without sinister intent!

No worries Erik, communication reestablihed. I'm happy about that, and shall look forward to many an interesting exchange in the future.

Btw, I was rather impressed when I figured out you had replaced your R93 with a Magnum Mauser from Recknagel (sp?)! Did you mortgage your house to go through this transaction?? In particular, I'm somewhat green with envy that your action seemingly has the integral pivot mount. I'm suitably impressed, and have loving looked at those quite a few times on the Johannsen website.

- mike

P.S. Those Edelweiss thingies do look a bit like throwing stars

Mike,

The Mauser is from Prechtl (who makes the actions for Johannsen and various other highend gunmakers). And I didn't have to mortgage the house for it, as it was a demo rifle he had (but only shot a few times by himself). I was just lucky enough to be "at the right place at the right time"! Now that I have it, had I not gotten the deal I did, I would have considered prostitution to get it. Preferably of the highclass type and not hanging around on street corners. But I'd have done that too! I like it that much.

The swingmount he machines into the squarebridges are Recknagel (ERA). This system works well, and has had no practical change of impact when taken on and off. So they are rather like the Blaser in that matter. The Blaser quick detachable mount I had worked flawlessly, and was maybe the one thing I really liked (besides it's amazing, constant cloverleaf accuracy). And I admit that although shooting a full magazine as fast as possible is a matter of training, the Blaser is a bit faster then the mauser in my experiance.

Over to the real topic of this thread; the 45 Blaser, I dug up an article about it written in a Norwegian magazine last year. The reveiw concluded that although it seems to be a good cartridge for it's specific use, it has some downsides: they found that the cases strech more than most other cartridges after only a couple of reloads and thus won't last as long, dies had to be "custom" ordered, and thus cost quite a bit more than usual (but maybe this has changed now, and they are standard from one of the die makers), factory ammo was excessivly expensive, and they wondered if ammo will be available in 10 years with todays trend of "overfilling" the market with new cartridges that are constantly being designed. Obviously not all of them will survive.

They did mention that they got good precission with the 45 Blaser.

Sorry about the dumb question, but what are driven hunts ? I´ve heard about pheasants driven hunts too, how are they ?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
500Grains,
Actually the real reason Blaser does not make a 458 Win Mag or a 458 Lott is a feeding problem. From what I have been told, they feed with X bullets, ie pointed, 100%. The problem is with the Round Nose bullets.

Actually, the problem is with the engineering staff, not with the round nose bullets. Norbert had one built (and a .500 Jeff), so it can be done.

And in the U.S. market, a .458 Lott will do a lot more good than a .45 Blaser. If the .45 Blaser shows up in the U.S., guys will want to use it on cape buffalo.

So if you will give me the email address of the appropriate person at Blaser, I will email to tell them they should kick their engineers in the ass and get them to build a .458 Lott blaser.



But even then, personally I would prefer a Colt Lightning.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
500Grains,
Actually the real reason Blaser does not make a 458 Win Mag or a 458 Lott is a feeding problem. From what I have been told, they feed with X bullets, ie pointed, 100%. The problem is with the Round Nose bullets.

Actually, the problem is with the engineering staff, not with the round nose bullets. Norbert had one built (and a .500 Jeff), so it can be done.

And in the U.S. market, a .458 Lott will do a lot more good than a .45 Blaser. If the .45 Blaser shows up in the U.S., guys will want to use it on cape buffalo.

So if you will give me the email address of the appropriate person at Blaser, I will email to tell them they should kick their engineers in the ass and get them to build a .458 Lott blaser.



But even then, personally I would prefer a Colt Lightning.

As far as I recall from an earlier post, Norberts gunsmith that made this possible used to work for Blaser. Or maybe my memory is incorrect. But if he did, I would think that Blaser itself should be able to make a 458Lott too. Or at least a 458win. I do wonder though if the reason that Blaser came up with their own cartridge is maybe a little bit due to the status and prestige of having a proprietary cartridge.

Maybe Norbert himself can shed some light on the matter?

Blaser make crappy rifles, and now they make crappy calibers.

Who'd expect anything else?

Erik D,

I was the one who pointed your post out to Johan yesterday and we both laughed at your joke. Thanks!

500 Grains,

Mateba make the Colt Lightning design though I am not sure it is available in the USA http://www.mateba-arms.com/page2.html

Good hunting!

I think the reason that there is no 458 Lott Blaser is that there isn't a need for one.

Most of the rifles sold are sold in Europe not in the USA or Canada. The 458 Lott is a great cartridge, but hardly something some guy who hunts buffalo once is going to buy for his Blaser R93.

They might sell quite a few 416 Remington barrels. But I bet they sell a hell of a lot more 375 barrels.

Europeans are a lot bigger hunters than most Americans give them credit for. They are very into big game, dangerous game. Especially the Germans and Austrians. I have been told by more than one big booking agent that the Germans and Austrians buy something ike 25 % of all the brown and grizzly bear hunts in the world.

Most Europeans will use one of there allocations to own something with a mauser action in a caliber like 458 Lott. (remember some of them have restrictions on numbers)

Another little taboo with the cartridge is the 458 Lott's recoil spike. I can't imagine that it would be a particularly fun gun to shoot in a Blaser.

Mehul,

Thanks for the link to the Colt Lightning. I figure a .38 Special will be just right for me as long as I place the shots well. If only the Blaser were made in a .38 Special...

D99, how can you say there would be no market for a Blaser .458 Lott when CZ and Winchester are enjoying a surge in big bore sales? But I agree that the geomettry of the Blaser stock will not exactly help with recoil of the Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by blaser93:
WHAT IS A.45 BLASER ROUND . WHAT IS IT COMPARED TO.

It´s the result of amputation of a .425 Westley-Richards case.

I think the main idea of the Blaser cartridge is to get a heavy boomer in a shift barrel system - the .45 Blaser (and the 425 W-R) has the same bolt face as the .30-06, 8x57 and other standard cartridges.
However, IMHO the cartridge is widely better than the rifle it was developed for.

Regards,

Fritz

quote:

Originally posted by Fritz Kraut:

quote:

Originally posted by blaser93:
WHAT IS A.45 BLASER ROUND . WHAT IS IT COMPARED TO.

It´s the result of amputation of a .425 Westley-Richards case.

500 Grains,

I don't think the European gun market is as specialized as the American one. They buy a Blaser and they own 3 or 4 barrels. That's about the extent of it.

Don't get me wrong there are rifle loonies in Europe just like America. There will be guys that have every R93 barrel made.

I also don't believe that if the 45 Blaser sold in the states, Americans would try to hunt mbogo with it.

I am an American but I have lived in Europe for a long time. I think some Spaniard would be the first one to hunt cape buff with it.

I am going to get a few and send them to Aleko. That way we can all get 45 Blaser fever!

Ammo? Who will make us brass? Hornady? Graf? Starline?

I think it would sell a few barrels, but I don't know how few.

D99,

Are you stationed in Europe? Any chance you can approach Blaser's R&D department and ask them why they are not making a .458 Lott, since Norbert has proven the concept to be workable?

500grains,

That's a conversation I'd pay to hear.

Have you ever tried to contact or even better still, gotten a reasonable, straight-forward response from someone in the U.S. Sporting Arms industry. Just think how far an American stationed in Europe will get...the response may be polite but I doubt if it would transfer any information.

I will get a hold of Blaser when I get back.

DB Bill are you going to buy that S2 from me or what? Find me a new R93 Attache with a German stock, and $2000 and it's yours. What do you think?

D99 --- seen several Attache's listed at $5199 ready to go but I don't know about the Bavarian cheekpiece. Retail on the S-2 Luxury is $6500 and I can buy one in a straight cash deal for $5850.

I also have a fellow trying to sell me a new one with a triple wood upgrade for about $7500. Wood is really nice. I will try and post a pic of it.




Another Blaser Trophy dealer has a new Super Luxus engraved with 2 buff on one side and 2 lions on the other for $9500 and that comes with a hard case I believe. I would have jumped on it but I didn't care all that much for the engraving --- nice but not to my taste.

Here's a pic of the engraved S-2...a Super Luxus in 9,3x74R with a single trigger. The left side is 2 buffalo.