The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Walter's Own General Discussions History of tools pushed back 1m yearsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| History of tools pushed back 1m years | Login/Join |
One of Us |
I'm not sure bout the little chat between God and Satan but I might be able to help on the big bang conservation of energy ( not matter ) thing. The big bang was the expansion of a singularity, the biggest singularity ever. MEnergy is not destroyed by the formation of this singularity , merely infinitely dense. Therefore no energy is created or destroyed, merely nd as always transformed. | |||
|
One of Us |
Perhaps. Recient evidence points to severl Big Bangs. If this evidence stands the search for the earliest/largest or trends of magnitude will follow. ****************** "Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds | |||
|
| One of Us |
Several big bangs or an endless cycle of bang crunch? | |||
|
| One of Us |
What I saw indicated 3-4. Like so much that comes out, the evidence is still being debated. ****************** "Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds | |||
|
| One of Us |
AS, if you spanked your children for wrongdoing today, they would turn you in for abuse. CPS (child protection services) might take them from you. They would definitely say you were cruel, and with an attention span measured in seconds, a spanking that lasted a minute or so might be perceived as an "eternal" beating. If you can visualize God as your Heavenly Father, that is what goes on in life. You err, and you are corrected. Except, you can choose to deny Him. He will allow you to do that, but you make a choice and you live with the consequences. If you do not, you will live eternity separated from Him, much as parents today practice the "Tough Love". The child can repent of his sins and come back into the family. Unless he/she dies first. Say you have a twelve year old son. He gets into drugs and porn with some buddies at Jr High. You do the counseling, and juvie court thing to no avail. He turns sixteen and steals a car because you won't risk him driving yours. Or he already has and wrecked a few. One day, he turns eighteen, and because he steals things out of your family's home to buy drugs with, you have to cut him loose. You are: a. by your standards, making him responsible and protecting yourself from the presences of evil and its consequences. Your view. b. selfish, cruel, and mean to your loving and loved child for not giving him, one more, one more chance. How can you abandon him in his time of greatest need? His view. You tell him, "when you decide to abandon your sinful, wicked ways, you can come back to us, and we will help you re-integrate into this family. If he never does repent of his ways, and dies in that sin; then you are sad because he, HE, would not change his ways. But, HE has made the decision, and you cannot help him. Sad day. God is like that. He shows us the right path to follow, and is always there encouraging us and nurturing us in many ways. Fellowship with other Christians, Bible Study, and always "Knowing" the right thing to do nor not do. In the end, we make choices. And, at the end we have to stand in front of a Heavenly Judge who says, "welcome home" or "you made the choice to walk away from Me, and now you have to stay away. There can be nothing but punishment to follow. The worst part of it is that you are separated from God and other believers. The other worst part is the company you now have to keep. God Bless, Rich  | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Timber, When you say you went back to school, I'm assuming you mean a college or university, and not back to high school? There is a large disparity in Collge/University system. The difference in the quality between a community college, second teir two, and teir a school are night and day. The school you returned to may not be a representation of University system at large, it's likely you needed a more rigerious school to properly challenge you. As for highschool ranking, it's important to understand how the world wide ranking are arrived at. It's importatant to understand the U.S is the only country to include Special Ed students in the numbers they report. This significantly skews the numbers. In addition, these number are all reported by the member countries with NO VERIFICATION. So, am I really supposed to believe that North Korea, Cuba, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Albania, all have higher literacy rates then we do? Alot has changed in the American educational system since the introduction of No Child Left Behind, Charter, and Magnet schools. In Colorado we can send our kids to any public school of our choice, so long as they have room, and we can get them to class. My kids are all in charter schools, and it's pretty eye opening. The elementary reading requirements are significantly higher then there were when I went to school. My son Algebra and Latin in 8th grade, and in high school they did DNA sequencing and experiments that involved creating a breed of lizards that would glow in the dark. Lets just say that a little bit different then when I went to school. Add to this the fact that 11 of the top 15 universities in the world are located in the US, (the other 4 in Britton) and over 1/3 of the top 100, and you can see we are holding up quite well vs. the rest of the world. Progress in not always a straight line, but as a nation, our overall trendline is still up. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Idaho, nice alalogy, but lets take it a step further. I've never met a party host who's rules included: This is the only party you are allowed to attend. You must belive everything the host says without question. If you don't come to my party, bad things will happen to you. If your friends don't come to the party, and accept everything the party host says as true, bad things will happen to them. You may not believe any science since Galileo, because the party host believes it to be wrong. As a person who seeks wisdom by questioning everything, and who does not give into threats, intimidation or blackmail, that partyhost is just not for me. [/QUOTE]If you and your crew are wrong, the torment never ends.[QUOTE/] As for the Garden of Eden, again you take an alagory as literal. The story of Adam and Eve is the Story of Marriage. As children Adam and Eve live in a paradise where everything is provided for them (their fathers house) by God (their Father). You get the first sense of this true meaning in Gen: 2:24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cheave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh. (of course this is a contridition, since at this point there only exists Adam and Eve). In Gen 3:1 we introduce the serpent that temps even. The serpent, well, that's the one-eyed sepant between Adams legs. Eve is tempted, and offers to Adam and apple, which signify's the fruit of her loins. Even today, we refers a womans viginity as a red fruit, just a different red fruit. In 3:6 they shared the apple, "and it was good"  IN 3:7-8, they open their eyes, and Eve is refered to as Adams wife, THIS MEANS EATING THE APPLE CONSTITUED THE ACT OF MARRIAGE. IN 3:23 God does what any ancient father would do, when his son knocked up his girl friend: He kicks them out of his house and tells Adam to go get a job. 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, (kicked him out) to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Get a job so you can support your wife, and baby) As for the "original sin", Fathers always blame their daughers when they don't keep their knees together. In 3:22 God say Man has become on of us( Us, are there other gods?)....and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever. So Eve's fruit is the tree of life, and through it, they will become as god, creating life, and live forever, creating their own family tree. It's interesting to me, how the story of a a wedding turned into, "It's the brides fault we are all bad".  If you go through the first 9 chapters of Leviticus there are plenty of sacrafices for sin, burnt sacrafice of the heard, meat offering, peace offering, sin through ignorance, witness of sin, deceive or trespass against thy neighbor, tresspass offering, but there is mention of an offering for "Original Sin". So, if Jesus was the son of God, why does Matthew begin with a list of 28 generation to prove Jesus a desendant of David and Abraham (luke lists 42 generations). Either he's the Son of God, or the Son of David and Abraham, and Joseph, which is it? What's the point of the Generations if he is not the Son of Joseph. If he's not the Son of Joseph, he cannot be the decendant of Abraham and Joseph, he cannot be the Mesiah. Matthew 1:18 When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Or did he not? Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David. Jesus was perfect, really? Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22 Yet he often called his critics and disciples fools. Ye fools and blind. Matthew 23:17, 19 Ye fools. Luke 11:40 O fools, and slow of heart to believe. Luke 24:25 So, did Jesus just condem himself to hell? And he thinks we should all hate our parent? If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26 I like this verison better: Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. This is just another example of where the text fails to support a simple claim. As for your bad child story, it looks like we probaby agree on most child rearing principles, don't steal, don't break things, don't beat on each other, treat people with respect. Those are all reasonable values upon which we do not disagree. Here's where we disagree. The bad son returns to me and says, "Dad, I've stopped, stealing, I'll off of drugs, I finished school, and have a job. I've changed my life and following the path of (enter non-christian religion here). Should I let him rejoin the Family, or should I kick him to the curb because he choose a different path to get to the right answer? | |||
|
| One of Us |
1. Jesus said, I paraphrase; that if you love anyone, including family, more than God you cannot go to Heaven... 2. Parties at my house, follow my rules or hit the bricks. It is not a democracy, neither is God's house. 3. The bad child story, he has chosen a different belief system. We are social, but my family members are Christians. He will be uncomfortable at my home with his conflicting value systems, and we would be ill at ease having him there. I would feel as if I needed to try and bring him back into the family of believers at every opportunity. It's the same reason I am here, after espousing my belief system to you. I either have to let you go, or keep trying to get you to the light. 3b. Good people don't go to Heaven. Believers do. As sinners we cannot do unconditional "good" as God views it. We sin, if we do not "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars." If you disobey the law of the land, you sin. Funny how the Ten Commandments are the only thing that survives to this day with complete validity. The notion you pitched about Adam & Eve and Original Sin, can only be true if you can Poof! create two human beings out of a "void" and create them as sentient beings. All of your Evolutionary explanations are fundamentally flawed. To be more than someone trying to replace God with ________________, you must first reconcile the two unreconcilable foundations of a non-Godly explanation. So, educate me on that dichotomy. 1. There was nothing, and then there was the Big Bang (theory), and suddenly there was something. Then a non-organic something produced life. And then it evolved into us. 2. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Explain that to this assembly and we nominate YOU for the Nobel Peace Prize. Take your time, people have been trying for at least six millenia. An answer other than God, that is. regards, Rich God Bless You! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Rich, this statemenet is incorrect. Based on the quality of your rhetoric (did you come up with the party and bad child examples yourself?), I know you are intelligent enough to understand the facts avaliable to you. Consequently, I believe the only reason you say that evolution is not true, is because this believe is demanded by your God. Are the 10 commandments truely completely valid? 1. Worship me 2. Worship me or I will send your next 4 generations to hell. 3 Worship me. 4. Take a day off (to worship me) 5. Honor your father and mother. 6. Don't commit Murder. 7. Don't commit Adultry. 8. Dont' steal. 9. Don'tcommit perjury. 10. Thou shall not covet. On a tight grading scale 6 out of 10 is an F. I prefer to be generous. I'll give you credit for the second, because I see it as a probition on excessive public works that rack up huge debts (have we not cursed our next 4 generation with our excessive 13 trillion dollar goverment debt?) I'll give you half credit for the 4th. Although the intention is self serving, we all need a day off to relax and contemplate. I'll give you extra credit for the 10th, How many wars were started because a nation coveted it's neighbors resources? Final grade of 80%, or a B-, not bad for a set of rules written 3500 years ago. My notion of Adam and Eve requires nothing but a bard to tell the tale. Remember, I said it is an allagory (parable, story, fable) t that it's a story doesn't dispute the wisdom of "Daughters keep your knees together, and sons, keep your pants buttoned", any more then talking animals refute the wisdom of Assop's Fables. When Ghubert used the term Singularity, do you know what that means? I believe you understood his post, but the literalist interpertation forces you to discard it. All religion is democratic, people vote with their feet. Within your response you reveal one of the biggest turn-offs of literalist Christanity to the modern American, intolerance. 1: that if you love anyone, including family, more than God you cannot go to Heaven 2. 3b. Good people don't go to Heaven. Believers do. 3. He will be uncomfortable at my home with his conflicting value systems, and we would be ill at ease having him there. HE'S YOUR SON, AND YOU CANNOT TOLERATE EVEN HIM NOT BEING A CHRISTIAN??? Just think about those 3 quotes and what they really mean.  So lets make a simple comparison. If my son came home from college and "Dad, I'm a Buddist, meet my new Shinto wife.", he would be as welcome, respected, and accepted as before, because he is my son, and I love him. The toughest quesiton he would have to answer would be from his Grandmother, who would want to know when should would be getting Great-Grandkids. I ask you to contemplate how that would compare to the experience of your own son under the same circimstances. What I hope you begin to appreciate, it's this intolerance of literal Christianity that will cause it's downfall. Such a system could survive with a united church and state, where the church/state controlled the bibles, could decided what portions would be read to masses, and could use the force of the state to kill non-believers. But over the centuries, things have changed. The bibles are no longer in Latin, they are in common toungues. With the printing press, the bible is avaliable to the common man, and not just the priests. The chruch has lost their control over what may, or may not be read. In the English speaking world, there is a decline in the state domination religions. The word of the church no longer has the force of law. Excommunication is no longer feared (we can be married and buried without the church), and the Church can no longer conduct forced book burnings, and must compete in a free market place of idea's. With the internet, this market place has greatly expanded, and with a click of a mouse, a person can see all the intolerance, injustice, contridictions, cruelity, and scientific and historically errors in the Bible. France is now only 10% Christian, only 4.5% attend regular services, and 73% athiest/agnostic/indiffferent.(1) Italy is down to 20% regularly attending services, and I've already chronicled the decline in Britton. In Spain, home of the inquisition, 80% are nominally Catholic, but half have never atteneded a single mass, and the agnostic/athiest make up 15%. In Sweden, confirmations are down to 37% of population and dropping every year. The Netherland, christians dropped from 76% of population in 1958 (where we are now) to 30% in 2006. In Finland, only 2% of members attend services weekly. (ouch  ) The more Christians cling to a literalist interpertation, the less they speak to the spirit, the more people will continue to vote with their feet, and the quicker the Christin faith will decline in America. But there remains hope in the big democratic contest of idea's. Even on this board we see Christians accepting more and more of the Bible as allagory and parable. Several accept "let there be light" as the big-bang, and God creating Man through Evolution. The more Christianity moves from the literal to the spiritual interperatation of the texts, perhaps a return to it's Gnostic roots, the greater it's chances for remaining relevant in a modern, scientifically advance civilization. Imagine for a moment, you removed all the literal trappings from you message, and delivered it as a purely spiritual one. You speak of distance from God. If God was a allagory for Selfactualization of Perfectionism, and distance from God represented a distance from these, what would be the practical implication for the meaning and survival of your faith? 1: http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35454.htm | |||
|
| One of Us |
Harrumph! If you have ten children and seven of them turn drug addicts, they choose to lose you, not the other way around. You choose to humanize the entire debate, which is a loser for Believers. You argue with your understanding, not Gods. This, for believers, reflects the situation wherein God gave satan dominion over all the world, to create the lab in which we are all tested. You are free to create all sorts of theories, while we, by choice, are restricted (or have chosen) the original. Your arguments are all just endless minute variations on the central theme "there is no God". Are you ducking my question about the BBT VS the Matter issue? Answer that one please. I cannot define God, or recreate Him to fit my own inability to accept Him as a superior being. That is the issue, modern man does not want to have a superior who can control his destiny. That, in the end, is the basis for non-belief. The devil is the father of all lies, from "eating the apple will not cause you to die" onwards. That is the reason for his continued existence. He and God are in a competition for souls. God has to tell the truth, and trust us to be able to accept that. The devil gets to lie, cheat, and steal. If you choose not to believe in God, you get to be the perfect child your entire life, entirely self-centered, selfish, and all Me-Me-Me. If we do not "civilize" our children by following the basic 10 Commandments (it it a surprise that only the Christians have those?) they grow up an undisciplined, selfish group of uncaring sentient beings. One of the kiddies and family are here, talk to you later. God Bless, Rich | |||
|
| One of Us |
By your standards, so long as they are Christian believers you didn't really loose them. On the other hand, if those same 7 children become Hindu Doctors and spend they days saving kids with leukemia they should all go to hell.
Yes, my position remains constant. Neither Man or the Universe was created by the Hebrew God of the Old Testiment. My basis for non-belief has nothing to do with a desire to be, or not be controlled. I's based in logic, and a Holy Scripture with more holes in it then if it had been shot it with a 12 gauge. Those of us who understand there is not God, also understand our existance is not some divine comedy with a Father in Heaven to ensure everything will work out like a 30 minute sitcom. Instead, we must accept responsibility for ourselves, our communities, and the greater good, because there is not Cosmic Father to do it for us. Rich, regarding the origin of the universe, some questions are tougher then others. Although I don't have a full understanding of all the elements leading to the big bang, I don't know all the elements that went into building my Suburban either. I know it was build in a factory, and parts came from many different sources. I don't know what order they were put in, where the leather came from, how many welds are in it, the carbon content of the steel in the frame, or how many of it's metric bolts were built in Japan. But I do know it was not built by starfish and slugs, and just because I don't know how the special GM antifreeze is made, it doesn't mean you can claim it's snail puke and make it so. We know that space is expanding, we know it came from a singularity about 13-14 billion years ago. When you ask where did the singularity come from, astrophysisist offer several theories, that I have outlined at length. But you cannot explain the origins at all. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation, because it is not tied to any objective evidence. It does not rule out any possibility or even any impossibility. It does not address questions of "how" and "why," and it raises questions such as "which God?" and "Where did God come from?" In the explaining game, you have a long way to go before you catch up with the cosmologist. I am facinated by your belief that only throught your God and the 10 commandments (Four of which are directions to worship said God) that children can grow up civilized, disciplined, and dedicated to a higher purpose. I suggest you tell that to all the peoples conquored by Alexander, the Romans (pre Constantine), and Persians. These were not childern, nor the Spartans, nor the Japanese who killed so many of our boys between 1941-1945. How about those godless commies that helped us on the Eastern Front? Sorry Rich, there is more then one way to gut a deer. As for the lies in the Garden of Eden, once again, you should spend more time reading the text for yourself, and less time listening to your preacher/pastor/reverend/priest. In chapter 3 of Genesis, the conversation is between Eve and the serpent. At no point in Genesis is the serpent identified as Satan. The Serpant told eve, that if she ate from the tree, she surely would not die, and he eyes would be opened, knowing the difference between good and evil. If you can trust Eve's words, it was God that said, if they ate the apple they would surely die. After eating from the tree, Adam's and Eve's eyes were opened, and they did not drop dead. So according to the text, it is God, not the serpant who lied. I guess that's why a recent study showed that athiest and agnostics know more about religion then believers. It is through reading the Bible itself that athiest are created. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Richard Dawkins reads his hatemail. It's kind of salty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...ilpage&v=-ZuowNcuGsc | |||
|
| One of Us |
There are those who feel that all they have to do is believe,and not actually live/demonstrate the principles. They cleary have ignored or are oblvious to what their xtian scriptures tell them.
thats basically what Jesus was suggesting, that for the community to operate better as a whole, they must forgo the eye for an eye principle, and forgive thy enemies. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I can forgive you, because I believe in God. I cannot absolve you of the consequences of your sinful actions or non-actions. You have to go to God yourself and ask for that. Of course, you have to believe in Him first, and follow up with accepting your responsibility after asking for, and receiving that absolution. It really is very simple. Believe, ask for forgiveness, try to behave, keep asking for forgiveness (because you keep sinning despite your best efforts) and keep trying to live a good Christian life. Influenced by satan, many people today do not want to admit there is anyone or thing superior to them. If there is a God in charge, you have to quit the notion that you are IT! You may choose anything else in the world as a basis for your non-belief, but nothing else stands on its own by choice by people over the millenium. God Bless you all, Rich | |||
|
| One of Us |
You all are dodging my question. Stop doing that please, and just let me in on your secret. Big Bang Theory: there was nothing, then there was something. Or: Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Help this poor benighted believer Rich | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am not dodging the question, your mind is closed to the answer.
NO, let me fix it for you: Big Bang Theory: there was Or: Where E=energy, M=matter, and c=constant, the speed of light. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That's nice, but it does not answer the question: Would you prefer your children grew up to be Hindu Doctors, or drug dealers that accepted Christ while dying after a hail of police bullets? It also does not refute that God lied in Genesis, and that nations have been civilizing their children for centuries without Jesus, nor any of the buckshot size holes in the biblical text. Speaking of which...Mans been around for at least 100k years. If we are his all important children, and God truly loves us, and wants to save us, why did it take him 98 thousand years for him to send us a savior? He then sent him to a backwater colony, where great swaths of the worlds population, China, India, Japan, the America's would not even have access to the message for another 1400 years. Just the simple time and method of delivering his message shows that God is either ingorant and lazy, doesn't really love us, or doesn't really exist. | |||
|
| One of Us |
AS, I'll answer the Hindu question. I would prefer the drug dealer, Because he accepted! Even though he died in a hail of bullets (consequence of his sinful acts) he is in Heaven. The Hindu Dr. even though he did "good" works all his life he will end up in Hell(consequence of his sinful act "not" accepting) God is not impressed with works! "they are as filthy rags" HE wants a personal relationship with indivdual's. We call it a Heart Relationship. I don't know what bible your reading, but no where in my Bible does God lie. As for nations "civilizing their children" read history, If having children just to throw them in a fire to appease their false gods is "civilized" You've have some serious learning to do. You don't become a child of God until you accept His Son, then and only then do you become related to Him. God put His plan in place back at creation, its about His timing and His requirements, not man's. Your attempt at paraphrasing the Bible show's you have no concept of its truths. If you think the bible has buckshot size holes in it, then I am afraid what you been reading and beleiving in has howitzer size holes in its text. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here it is: 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. Timber, The text is the text, read it for youself. God lied, not the serpent. Holes: All the science stuff I've been quoting. The two contradictory accounts of cration. From David to Jesus, Matthew lists 16 generations, Luke lists 31, and only 3 names match. How about, when was Jesus born? 291. Jesus was born when Herod was king [37-4 BCE] / Quirinius was governor of Syria [6-7 CE]. MAT 2:1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, ---------------------------- LUK 2:1, And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) ... 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. Where was Jesus from? 4 Gospels, 4 accounts. 294. Jesus' hometown was Capernaum / Bethlehem / Nazareth. MAR 2:1 When Jesus returned to Capernaum after some days, it became known that he was at home. (NAB) ---------------------------- MAT 2:1 When Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of King Herod, .... (NAB) JOH 4:3 he left Judea and returned to Galilee. He had to pass through Samaria ... 43 After the two days, he left there for Galilee. 44 For Jesus himself testified that a prophet has no honor in native place. (NAB) ---------------------------- LUK 4:14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news of him spread throughout the whole region. 15 He taught in their synagogues and was praised by all. 16 He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, .... 24 And he said, "Amen, I say to you, no prophet is accepted in his own native place." (NAB) Can thieves go to heaven? 926. Thieves can / cannot go to heaven. LUK 23:43, And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. ---------------------------- 1COR 6:9-10, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: either fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Everyone has sinned....or not: 1KIN 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; ECC 7:20, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. ROM 3:10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: ... 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [SEE ALSO: PSA 14:2-3, 51:5; PRO 20:9; MAR 10:18; ROM 5:12; 1COR 15:22; 1JOH 1:8] ---------------------------- GEN 6:9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. JOB 1:8, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? LUK 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. [SEE ALSO: JOB 1:1; PSA 24:3-4, 86:2; LUK 6:45; 1JOH 2:1; 3:6,9] Should you love or hate your enemies? 695. Hate / Love those who hate God. [H, 306] PSA 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. 2CHR 19:2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD. -------------------------------------- LUK 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Revenege, is allowed, or not? 701. Revenge killing is / is not allowed. [H, 256] NUM 35:19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him. -------------------------------------- ROM 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. HECK, IT'SSO FULL OF HOLE'S IT CAN'T EVEN AGEE IF YOU SHOULD, NOT SHOULD NOT GET MARRIED PRO 18:22, Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD. HEB 13:4, Marriage is honourable in all .... [SEE ALSO: GEN 2:18; MAT 19:4-6; 1TIM 5:14] ---------------------------- 1COR 7:1, Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman ... 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. Or remaarrage after divorce: DEU 24:1-2, When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. ---------------------------- MAR 10:11-12, And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Or even if we should care for our own famalies: 780. Men should / should not take care of their families. 1TIM 5:8, But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. PRO 13:22, A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. ---------------------------------- LUK 12:33, Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. LUK 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. MAT 6:31, Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? ... 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. There are just a few highlights, there are thousands more. As for a drug dealing son, as you sure that faith alone is enough? Psalm 62:12 For you render to each one according to his works. Proverbs 10:16 The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin. Jeremiah 17:10 I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Ezekiel 18:27 When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. Matthew 5:20 Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 19:17 If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. 1 Peter 1:17 The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. Revelation 2:23 I will give unto every one of you according to your works. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just alot of boring evidence in that last post, so lets look at someting more interesting:
So, lets unpack that statement, and it's moral implications. The best of the non-believers, are worse the worst believer... So, what's to stop you from killing them? Did you ever think that this could be the kind of reasoning that lead to the Crusades and the Inquisition, and the hundreds of thousands of women burned for witchcraft in last 15th to early 18th century? With your blind faith, you worship a God, who according to Dawkins "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.", yet you fail to see how this Faith, this believe without reason, belief without evidence, belief [bold]DESPITE[/bold] the evidence, has warped your own sence of morality to a point where you would prefer your own child be a murdering psychopathic beliver, then a productive, loving, non-believer. This my friend, is what earns literalist the reputation as intolerant bigots. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry AS, wrong again. God did not lie, had Adam and Eve not eaten of the tree God told them not to. They would have lived forever. Because Eve ate and then gave to Adam and He ate, their eyes were opened to right and wrong. God had only created them with "right" in their minds. Because of "their" disobedience" death came to them as a result of their actions. They lived for a while outside the garden, but in time both died. God was right! You quote alot of scripture, but you understand very little of it. My "Faith" is not blind, I see right through people like you. That comes from understanding who God is, and what His plan for His creation will be. Look up Websters meaning of "bigot" it will surpise you what its real meaning is. In Webster's day it was a compliment. I've never wasted my time with Dawkins, neither should you. With all your usage of scripture, I noticed you left out Psalm 118:8 "Its better to take refuge in the Lord, than to trust in man" You throw the word "intolerant" around pretty freely my friend. I've seen its hypocritically use for quite some time now and found its most common place of use is in our school system and that inclueds all grades. "Crusades and the Inquisition" were man's doing not God's! again its that "free will" thing again that man can't grasp! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Actually I understand it on a level you never will. Remember, you still think the world is only 6k years old, and that Adam lived for over 900 of them. I quoted 10 scriptures disagreing with you perspective on the pather to salvation, and you had no effective rely. Of course there are also the reference to Election and Grace in Roman which is the basis for the Calvinism and it derivations. I just think it's interesting you can come up with anything better then "You don't understand ".I find it facinating that you believe God and the Christian Faith bears no copability, what so ever for a series of genocial wars called for the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, Gods representative on Earth? He offered remission of all sins for those who particiaped. You really believe all those murders would of still occured without the Crusaders belief in God and Christ? Could the Pope have motivated the Crusaders without the Bible and his position? Since Christianity was the central motivator, how can you hold it harmless? Same thing with the Inquisition, it was blessed and chartered by the Pope, and designed to force people to convert to Christianity. If someone is being tortured, and accepts Christ to end the torture on the rack, are they saved? Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. This didn't have anything to do with all those murdered women?
I can't imagine a more vivid demonstration of intolerent that does not include the use of violence, so I stand by my assessment. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Your hung up on church history, that is a sad thing. The Pope for your information is just a mear man like you and me, no better no less. Church history and Man's history are pretty much the same, based on greed and power. Christ church is totally different then man's church. And I stand by my assessment too! Your level of understanding, sad to say, is very low. You have a long way to go to get on my playing field. If I have demonstrated intolerance in what I beleive, what have you demonstrated in all that you have said? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Timber please don't confuse childhood indoctrination, and a lifetime of propoganda as "understanding". You ask why I examine history. It's to gain an understanding, in this case of how the faith began, what previous religions it drew it's stories and doctrines from, how it evolved, and through out history, how has it caused people to behave. As for my tolerance, I'm not the one saying belief is more important then behavior, that is your position. Actually I've provided you with a look into the future, and suggested ways the Christian Faith can continue to evolve inorder to remain relevant, and be meaningful in the lives of a wider varity of people. But since a literalist theology is the most important thing to you, just feel free to watch that trend line to continue toward the ground. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here's another example of scientist correcting themselves. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech...ter-inspection-rump/ | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry AS, It there has been any indoctrination, my friend, you have fallen prey to it. I don't know where in the world you came up with thinking my belief is more important then behavior, Thats so far from what I think and beleive! I already have a good grasp on what the furture hold, the Christain Faith will remain as strong as it ever has. BUT man's chruch and religion will continue to blind people to the truth. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Did you already forget the drug dealver vs the Hindu example? Faith over behavior. As for the direction of literalist theology, tell yourself what every you like that makes you feel comfortable, but over the next generation it's losses will be huge, and will accelerate over the next in this country. It may continue to grow in the poor undereducated parts of the world, but that doesn't provide the best base for contributions. But weather you like it or not the trend is what it is. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry again AS, That example has nothing to do with faith over behavior. Your confussing worldly living(both people,druggie and hindu) over a life lived based on Faith. I don't have to convince myself of anything, I am free, because I know the truth! As for "losses" which group? Did you not see that the US is now 31st in the world now for educating our children. So if the literalist will only grow in the undereducated parts of the world, your saying(belief)its going to get stronger here in the USA. God gave you a choice, weather you like it or not, thats the way He planned it. Romans 1:18-32 | |||
|
| One of Us |
only believers can go on to better things. For the rest of the world, this is it. You also need to read the original texts in Aramaic. There it says that you will die. If they had not eaten of the apple they would have lived forever. Even the Greek and early Latin texts paraphrased, and changed wording according to their language. The old guys were not as semantically challenged as you are upon occasion. Words have meanings, and they are not always going to translate exactly, especially the meanings. I believe you are at war with yourself over believing VS your human desire to be at the top of the evolutionary ladder. You want a reason. That is a weakness humans have. The challenge you are liking, IMHO, is whether you can put your faith in a higher being or not. If God does not exist, then you may as well lead a totally self-centered, hedonistic, selfish life style. Because this is all you have. Believers know that this is just a test, that there is a hereafter to look forward. From where you are, life is just going to be a gradual downhill slide, until you finally die. The Bible says "Now you are young and you go where you will, and do as you wish. When you are old, others will take you where you may not want to go, and you will no longer do as you wish. I am parsing this, forgive me. From where believers stand, from Day One, life is a journey to be looked forward to, each step of the way giving new gifts and experiences from God, and in the end, to go to a better home to be with God. We will continue to pray for you, your soul is worth saving... Rich | |||
|
| One of Us |
On the other hand, if you believe that God created man and gave man "free will" then man gets to choose the path he takes and God could care less. (unless you believe in predestination) How can anyone argue that God cares, and, that he gave man free will? Going further, if we have free will, how can we expect prayers to be answered by a God that doesn't care what we choose. Fellowship with which Christians? The ones that bring out snakes at their service or the ones that belong to the Landover Baptist Church...perhaps those evil Roman Catholics? Don't ask me what happened, when I left Viet Nam, we were winning. | |||
|
| One of Us |
In 1931, the young mathematician Kurt Godel made a landmark discovery, as powerful as anything Albert Einstein developed. In one salvo, he completely demolished an entire class of scientific theories. Godel's discovery not only applies to mathematics but literally all branches of science, logic and human knowledge. It has earth-shattering implications. Oddly, few people know anything about it. The complete story follows here: http://www.cosmicfingerprints....blog/incompleteness/ Warrior “Math is the language God wrote the universe in.” -Galileo Galile, 1623 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I found this page on the site more interesting... New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God ****************** "Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds | |||
|
| One of Us |
Marker:  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess that if you believe in the bible, there are three choices: Christian, followers of Christ, Jews - (Jesus was one of them) and Idol Worshipers. What if the Jews were right and Jesus wasn't Christ (the son of God)? What if the Idol Worshipers were right? Why does Christianity have to be the answer? Just because it is put forth in the bible? Don't ask me what happened, when I left Viet Nam, we were winning. | |||
|
| One of Us |
RonE, you have answered your own question, if you think about it a minute. Jesus came to fulfill the promise of God to the Jews. Some of them chose, and still choose; to ignore that answer. God scattered them as an answer to their rejection and gave their once exclusive birthright to the world. As far as the Jews, kind of ironic, don't you think, that God chose Adolph Hitler to get them back home. As far as the idol worshippers and being right? If so, whatever idol they picked hasn't furthered their cause(s). Do you have a specific one to tout? Only one still has a following today. It relies on violence to spread its' message. The Bible exists today because it is the truth. No other teaching since the dawn of recorded history has survived the challenge of time. The Bible is still the most popular printed book in the world. regards, Rich | |||
|
One of Us |
Rich i am happy that your faith and beliefs are working for you, but the tolerance that your god is sopposed to be teaching you is lacking a bit, your bible were made by men who sat down in 3 hundred something and desided between quite a few diffferent scriptures, as to what would be good for you to read and belive in. And it worked out quite well, the followers worked quite hard to supress all other beliefs with fire and steel, it allmost worked for them. Thankfully there are still other solutions for free thinkers, to each his own, and if i go to hell for this, at least i will be in good company during the last big barbeque. god jul peter | |||
|
| One of Us |
Secrets in Stone: Rare Archaeological Find in Norway  "researchers suspected there might be another reason for the choice of the hilltop when they uncovered the remains of two cremations, or rather a fire layer that also contained bits of bone. Underneath they found many petroglyphs, including eight drawings showing the soles of feet, with cross hatching. There were also five shallow depressions" http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.../01/110131073133.htm Archaeologists Reconstruct Life In The Bronze Age At Site Of Southern Spain  "The sites, known as “motillas”, represent one of the most peculiar types of prehistoric settlements in the Iberian Peninsula. They occupied the region of La Mancha in the Bronze Age between 2200 and 1500 BC, and they are artificial mounds, 4 to 10 m high, a result of the destruction of a stone fortification of central plan with several concentric walled lines. Its distribution in the plain of La Mancha, with equidistanes of 4 to 5 kilometres, affects river meadows and low areas where the existence of pools was quite frequent until recent dates." http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.../06/070605121009.htm | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hi Peter, What ever the last barbeque is it will not be the age old version. The Hell believers will have to stick with their unchangeable story until they become the laughing stock and die off. The rest of us will continue on the path of discovery. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I figure Jesus will answer any questions when I get there.Really don't want to bee runnin around in the dark and all alone forever over a few things I can't understand in the Bible. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Walter's Own General Discussions History of tools pushed back 1m years
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
