I have decided to rechamber my .458 Lott to a more powerful .458 caliber.

I used to think that 2,300 fps with a 500 grain bullet, plus the extra couple of rounds in the magazine, made the Lott a better choice than the bigger boomers in .458 caliber.

Now, after getting a lot more DG hunting under my belt, I think more power would be a better choice, at least for me. I have had buffalo and hippo practically shrug off hard body hits to the vitals from my Lott. Sure, the Lott eventually kills them, but not right there and right now!

My .500 on the other hand flat out knocks them off their feet! I'd like close to the same result from a .458; hence my decision.

I'm considering the .460 Weatherby Mag. as my first choice. I like the big Weatherby mainly because it's the most practical of the big .458s. Ready availability and relatively low cost of factory loaded ammunition and brass count for a lot.

But I'm also considering the .450 Rigby, mainly for nostalgic reasons.

I don't want a .450 Dakota or a wildcat.

Advice or opinions are welcome!

So, is it not in fulminant Lott 458 pachyderms or buffalo?, I thought Jack Lott had gotten a cartridge that really stopped (putting the shot properly) buffaloes and elephants with enough property.

Oscar.

quote:

450 Rigby, mainly for nostalgic

How much nostalgic reason can there be behind a 450 rigby it came out in 1996 but I can attest it is one hell of a rifle.The one I own is 9 pounds and has a 20 inch tube

Rebore and go with something that starts with .5--. Remember, staying alive means hunting with caliber that begins in five.

I like the sound of the 450 Rigby. Yes it's a young cartridge, but the word "Rigby" makes it sound African.

If you were into wildcats I would suggest the 460 van horn now that is a powerful cartridge fits into the standard action and hits 2300 easy

Silly boy. Get out your copy of Taylor's African Rifles and Cartridges.

You need a 500 Jeffery or a hot rodded Gibbs. The 458's are a waste of time.

You might be going the wrong way.

I have shot several buff with a 450 No2, a 450/400, but my quickest kill, and my only one shot kill was with a 9,3x74R.

The videos I have seen of buff being shot, seems to indicate that nothing really "impresses them" with body shots, not even a 600 Nitro.

I am a bit biased, but I have a CZ in 450 Dakota. Weatherby without the goofy shoulder and freebore. The Dakota is easy to reload, gives you from 2400to 2600fps, knocking on the Wbee door.
It or the Rigby will do what you want, and your Lott could easily be rechambered if you have a CZ.
That said, I also have a CZ in 505 Gibbs, and that is about the ultimate in factory chamberings in a serious DG boltgun.

Rich

505 Gibbs, and that is about the ultimate in factory chamberings in a serious DG boltgun. +1

If you do not like the .45s, then get a .50 something.

Remember most bullets have a sweet spot in their velocity range. Push them to hard and they WILL fail. Giving you poorer performance than at slightly less speed.

Keith

mrlexma, the .500 say your .500 knocks them off their feet is a .500 Nitro? Just curious.

I think the 460 WBY is the only step up in a commonly available factory round that you'll find. But you got a lot more than a re-chambering job; you're gonna have to alter the bolt face and make it feed the fatter cartridge, plus you'll lose one, maybe two down in the process? Same for the Rigby.

The lott is good enough for buff,IMO.Without a doubt MANY others would agree too.I would also use it on ele but would choose a very hard, non expanding,flat nose, monometal bullet like the Barnes solid and stick with a brain shot.I would think that a bullet with long range accuracy would not be necessary, therefore such a bullet would do.Ofcourse, I would only shoot such a bullet useing my cheapest rifle.I remember the part in "death in the long grass"about the client who hunted with the 460 Weatherby...ouch.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
I have decided to rechamber my .458 Lott to a more powerful .458 caliber.
Advice or opinions are welcome!

The obvious answer is a 458 Win Mag. Load the bullets long and use the special powder in combination with a longer freebore......

460 is just cruising along at 2500fps with a 500gr bullet. I have no buff here so this fall I am trying to line up a moose with mine. I don't think I need more just yet but if I do then I can and will go faster.

The only logical choice is the .500 A-Square
Best of the 500's for performance / cost of brass.

Convenience dictates either a .460 Wby or a .500 A2.Other choices may be more fashionable, but I'm not sure they offer any material benefit. The real plus for the .460 is factory ammo; I own and very much like a .500 A2, but I've yet to use it on dangerous game.

I think your going about it wrong,

IMHO make bigger holes not the same size.

Most of the big stuff that you talk about dies from blood loss NOT shock so why go quicker.......GO BIGGER

regards
S&F

more 458?
my 458 AR, of course.. 2400 is the max mV of all but a few bullets

bigger? 470 AR
bigger? 500 AR

BIGGER? 550 express


and all these fit in STANDARD length actions

Most curious. My PH commented that the Lott was just droppin'm and left them quivering. Didn't understand why until they chrono'd the load at 2350 fps with a 500 gr Woodleigh.

It was decided that simply wasn't necessary and dropped back to 2200 as it was more than adequate and didn't kick so hard.

You lookin' for instant knock down?

www.470mbogo.com
can be made from a rigby case, but literally should be made from 3" cases.

500gr to 2500, with no struggle .. and Dave is a heck of a guy

Since advice and opinions are welcome...
You seem set on the 460 Wby.
Would you consider selling the gun and the extra say $1,000 from not modifying the gun be 1/4 the way to another safari or another double?
Maybe the 500 Jeffery from CZ?

Getting a 458-404 to feed would be easier with maybe an extra down compared to the 460 Wby or two rounds with work and should cruz @ 2400

Cooper liked his.

Pretty sure he already has an AHR 500 A-Sq.

quote:

I'm considering the .460 Weatherby Mag. as my first choice.

The only choice - the rest are poseurs ...

Anything over 2400fps in a .458 is a waste of time. I second a .470 Mbogo if you just have to stay under .50.-Rob

quote:

Anything over 2400fps in a .458 is a waste of time.

Are you saying you now believe in alternative physics, or that you can't make a bullet that can utilize the velocity, or that no game animals are worthy..??

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Anything over 2200fps in a .458 is a waste of time.

There, fixed it for you

I must say, baised on the use of my 450 No2, in Zimbabwe on 3 Safaris, taking some plains game, giraffe, several cape buff and several elephant, that I fail to see how more velocity than @2150fps, with its increased recoil is necessary.

On my First Safari I made it known to my PH that I would return with a 577 Double...

I shot some buff and 3 elephants on that Safari.

He told me that my 450 No2 was THE HAMMER OF THOR, and that I would be a fool to change and get ANYTHING else.

The 458 Lott can kill any animal in the world As can the 505 Gibbs. THE 416 Rem has the power
if shot in the right place. The Rigby can also. The 416s would probably need two shots, The lott
could do it in one shot if the shot was in the right place as can the 505 Gibbs. Just some of my thoughs.

Have patience and make a good shot. I realize all circumstance may not offer that opportunity, but then perhaps you may want to pass up that shot. From what I have read Elephant is a complete different scenario. I think JPK and 465 have allot of experience there and most of all Ivan Carter.
Saeed has said he thought a 338 win mag would work for Buffalo and he has killed hundreds.
Find a good projectile and a practical cartridge that you can source ammo if required and squeeeeeze the trigger. DOA!
I would believe ammo access might be paramount. What if you ammo is lost or stolen in route? I really do not like the idea of having to use someone else's gun. Half the fun of a hunt is the preparation. That confidence that you develop in practice is very important to me.

EZ

Why not the .450 Ackley??

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Why not the .450 Ackley??

Because nobody makes it in a revolver or other pistol?

He'd have to find something different for his handgun hunting round. Duplication of reloading dies and components...that sort of thing.

I say go for it. It makes perfect sence to me. I've had a couple of 460s but the push feed/2 rounds down/load from the bottom always makes me sell them. I've only got 45 rounds through my CZ Safari Lott but am thinking about makeing a CRF 460. Kinda doubt I'll see Africa any time soon but should make a decent Moose masher. Popped a few of 460s in the box and they come up and out fine.

Yes, I already have an AHR-CZ rifle in .500 A-Square. It is a giant killer and I have used it on elephant, Cape buffalo and hippo to excellent effect.

That rifle, with 570 or 600 grain bullets at a muzzle velocity of 2,450-2,500 fps will literally - and reliably - knock a Cape buffalo off his feet with one well-placed shot to the shoulder.

My AHR-CZ Lott has never done that - or even come close to doing that. Not enough oomph, IMHO.

I want to stay at .458 caliber with the latter rifle because I don't want to change or rebore the barrel.

In the CZ action, if I go to the .450 Rigby or .460 Wby. Mag., I will be able to get three down in the magazine with room to spare.

Besides rechambering, all that should be needed is opening the bolt face and tweaking the feed rails.

Good, stout 450-500 grain .458 bullets - such as the North Fork softs or Barnes X bullets or any of several monolithic solids - driven to 2,500-2,600+ fps ought to rival the .500 in knock down power.

That is my (current) thinking anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Since advice and opinions are welcome...
You seem set on the 460 Wby.
Would you consider selling the gun and the extra say $1,000 from not modifying the gun be 1/4 the way to another safari or another double?
Maybe the 500 Jeffery from CZ?

Getting a 458-404 to feed would be easier with maybe an extra down compared to the 460 Wby or two rounds with work and should cruz @ 2400

Cooper liked his.

If only some producers, ammo and gun manufacturers, would legitimize the 460 G&A, 404 Jeffery adapted to 458 caliber....that would seem to fit the bill just right. I would be on the list to order one, if legitimized. Just enough additional capacity over the Lott to be useful. The neat thing is that it would work on a much smaller rifle foot print that the bigger 458s.

Having said that, in my experience the 458 Lott is more than enough for anything. I have shot enough Cape Buffalo to know that it will knock them off their feet with a well placed shot and most just do not make it up....My reloads clock 2250 fps with 500 grain Branes TSX.

If I wanted something bigger tban the Lott, given the 460 G&A is a wildcat proposition....I would go up in caliber to .500+..if you must have a bigger 458, I would go with the 460 Wby...

Best,

jjs

okay, we all send Remington letters and ask for a 458 RUM.

There, that settles it.

I'm still good to go with my CZ 450 Dakota.


Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Yes, I already have an AHR-CZ rifle in .500 A-Square. It is a giant killer and I have used it on elephant, Cape buffalo and hippo to excellent effect.

That rifle, with 570 or 600 grain bullets at a muzzle velocity of 2,450-2,500 fps will literally - and reliably - knock a Cape buffalo off his feet with one well-placed shot to the shoulder.

My AHR-CZ Lott has never done that - or even come close to doing that. Not enough oomph, IMHO.

I want to stay at .458 caliber with the latter rifle because I don't want to change or rebore the barrel.

In the CZ action, if I go to the .450 Rigby or .460 Wby. Mag., I will be able to get three down in the magazine with room to spare.

Besides rechambering, all that should be needed is opening the bolt face and tweaking the feed rails.

Good, stout 450-500 grain .458 bullets - such as the North Fork softs or Barnes X bullets or any of several monolithic solids - driven to 2,500-2,600+ fps ought to rival the .500 in knock down power.

That is my (current) thinking anyway.

It sounds like your .500 is everything you want and better then your .458 lott in every way. It then stands to reason that you would grab your .500 over your Lott every time.

All this begs the questions, why don't you just sell the Lott and be happy with the .500?

Is it because you need a backup rifle? Flatter shooting big bore then the .500?

My question is why people are not happy with the caliber 458 Lott?, "So bad it to hunt buffalo or elephant?

Oscar.

Do you already have a .500 Jeffery? There's nostalgia there.