quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Yes, I already have an AHR-CZ rifle in .500 A-Square. It is a giant killer and I have used it on elephant, Cape buffalo and hippo to excellent effect.

That rifle, with 570 or 600 grain bullets at a muzzle velocity of 2,450-2,500 fps will literally - and reliably - knock a Cape buffalo off his feet with one well-placed shot to the shoulder.

My AHR-CZ Lott has never done that - or even come close to doing that. Not enough oomph, IMHO.

I want to stay at .458 caliber with the latter rifle because I don't want to change or rebore the barrel.

In the CZ action, if I go to the .450 Rigby or .460 Wby. Mag., I will be able to get three down in the magazine with room to spare.

Besides rechambering, all that should be needed is opening the bolt face and tweaking the feed rails.

Good, stout 450-500 grain .458 bullets - such as the North Fork softs or Barnes X bullets or any of several monolithic solids - driven to 2,500-2,600+ fps ought to rival the .500 in knock down power.

That is my (current) thinking anyway.

It sounds like your .500 is everything you want and better then your .458 lott in every way. It then stands to reason that you would grab your .500 over your Lott every time.

All this begs the questions, why don't you just sell the Lott and be happy with the .500?

Is it because you need a backup rifle? Flatter shooting big bore then the .500?

Exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Since advice and opinions are welcome...
You seem set on the 460 Wby.
Would you consider selling the gun and the extra say $1,000 from not modifying the gun be 1/4 the way to another safari or another double?
Maybe the 500 Jeffery from CZ?

Getting a 458-404 to feed would be easier with maybe an extra down compared to the 460 Wby or two rounds with work and should cruz @ 2400

Cooper liked his.

If only some producers, ammo and gun manufacturers, would legitimize the 460 G&A, 404 Jeffery adapted to 458 caliber....that would seem to fit the bill just right. I would be on the list to order one, if legitimized. Just enough additional capacity over the Lott to be useful. The neat thing is that it would work on a much smaller rifle foot print that the bigger 458s.

Having said that, in my experience the 458 Lott is more than enough for anything. I have shot enough Cape Buffalo to know that it will knock them off their feet with a well placed shot and most just do not make it up....My reloads clock 2250 fps with 500 grain Branes TSX.

If I wanted something bigger tban the Lott, given the 460 G&A is a wildcat proposition....I would go up in caliber to .500+..if you must have a bigger 458, I would go with the 460 Wby...

Best,

jjs

Glad Cooper and you see eye to eye on this.

Damned right I need a back up rifle!

Everyone needs a back up rifle!

Besides, I just like rifles.

BTW, this is not about whether the Lott will work. It will work.

Just not fast enough to suit me.

Heck if it is about quick kills how bout taking a 12 GFH for your next buff jumbo hunt... Not a wildcat and will kil em' quick to be sure.

Take it birding too!

like I said, 450 Dakota/Rigby. 460Wbee minus the obnoxious goofy shoulder and belt.
Mine clock about 2400fps with 500gr Swift A-frame or Barnes solid.

Rich

I think the big gain from the big 45s is mainly for those who want to play around with different loads. And the way they do the 2300 with 500 grainers is kind of like the feeling you get when just idling around town in a big V8 with manual transmission Although from a dangerous game point of view and if all else was equal they would be more reliable feeders than either 458 Lott of 458 Win when blunt bullets are used and especially blunt bullets with big lead exposure.

One advantage the Dakota/Rigby would have (but perhaps of no interest to you) is the much shorter freebore will make them a lot better for loads that are reduced well back when using lighter bullets from 300-400 grains. Light for calibre bullets, reduced loads (with rifle type powders, not flake shotgun type powder)and very long freebore will often mean hangfires. But a 460 is perfect with 500 grains, 85 grains of Varget/4064 and does right on 2000 f/s with top accuracy. As a side note, that is 20 grains less than a mximum load using those powders.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Most curious. My PH commented that the Lott was just droppin'm and left them quivering. Didn't understand why until they chrono'd the load at 2350 fps with a 500 gr Woodleigh.

It was decided that simply wasn't necessary and dropped back to 2200 as it was more than adequate and didn't kick so hard.

You lookin' for instant knock down?

Well Mike (Starling), I arrived at Mafigeni a few days after you left and had the same conversation with both Gerrie and Claude. My .450 Ackley's 500 Woodleigh at 2385 fps dropped all but the Eland with one shot, albeit the Eland was left standing until I knocked him over with a feather. They both suggested downloading also.
Great trip and thanks for the meat! Gonna continue to love those .45 cal holes until the .505 Gibbs is done next year!

btw, Gerrie really enjoyed hunting with you. He mentioned you often
I am sending him a chrono this month so he can finally feed / resolve his fps fascinations...

My Lott can kill Without Hurting your shouder.
I relize thats my opion. I can shoot the 500 Solid at 2330 FPS That getting into 6000 Ft Lb
I would say get what you want. I have what I want.

Recently seems 458 Lott not enough as a weapon for greater hunting dangerous (DGS).

Oscar.

MR, I admire your fortitude. I shot the 570g Barnes at 2450 from my 500 Jeffrey. Offhand it's shootable, but my Leupold 1.5 x 5 comes back trying to penetrate my skull a little faster than I would like. 15 shots hunched over from the bench without a lead sled, ouch ouch, came up with a legendary bruise lol ...

I've loaded the 570g Barnes down to a wimpy 2100 fps. It cuts the same hole with 3 shots at 100 yards and is a pleasure to shoot off hand. I guess if it's going to take two shots, I'm going to live with it. Once again, I do admire your fortitude ...

Best Regards,

Chuck

It would be according to where the animal is shot. If shot threw the heart it isn't going far
If shot threw the brain it will drop dead.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
MR, I admire your fortitude. I shot the 570g Barnes at 2450 from my 500 Jeffrey. Offhand it's shootable, but my Leupold 1.5 x 5 comes back trying to penetrate my skull a little faster than I would like. 15 shots hunched over from the bench without a lead sled, ouch ouch, came up with a legendary bruise lol ...

I've loaded the 570g Barnes down to a wimpy 2100 fps. It cuts the same hole with 3 shots at 100 yards and is a pleasure to shoot off hand. I guess if it's going to take two shots, I'm going to live with it. Once again, I do admire your fortitude ...

Best Regards,

Chuck

Chuck, my .500 doesn't hurt me. I don't think it's so much fortitude as it is a function of the excellent AHR rifle design. Especially the heavy profile barrel and the straight stock. Plus the weight of 11.5 pounds helps, too.

I think that I am going to ask Wayne at AHR to rechamber my rifle to .450 Rigby. He tells me that he has the proper reamer and has done this job before.

My only concern is brass availability. I will need about 200 properly headstamped cases. That should be a life time supply for me.

Anyone know where to buy good quality .450 Rigby cases? Qual-Cart?

Qual Cart and also midway has them

I have a .450 Dakota and I shoot 450 Barnes bullets at right around 2400 fps. I think it is a super cartridge and brass was easy to get. If you want a .450 Riby which is essentially the same cartridge, call Wayne at American Hunting Rifles. He will build you a beauty for a great price.

MR, my 500 Jeffrey weighs 11 plus lbs too, now that I have a lead sled (I only put 10 lbs on it) shooting from the bench is a pleasure. Maybe, I'll crank it up to 2150 fps lol ...

My rifle is a CZ 500 that did get the AHR CZ #1 upgrade and has two recoil reducers in it ... I think I'm a recoil wimp ...





I got this lovely bruise one afternoon on the range. I was chonographing loads and testing for accuracy. My bench was too low, so I was hunched forward, my shoulder taking all of the recoil with limited ability to rock back. After 8 shots it started to sting, I had 7 shots left, and I'm incredibly stubborn. The last 2 shots felt like someone hit my collar bone with a 32 oz ball pean hammer. I've learned my lesson. I waited a month until I shot the rifle again, but "Baby" and I have become better acquainted. I don't take her for granted anymore, and I've lightned my loads down to 500 NE Express levels. It was kind of like coming home late without calling right after you've gotten married, you don't do it twice ...



Regards,

Chuck

I know a man that killed a buffalo with one shot from his Rem 416. That tells me that if a 416 can do it that a 458 could do it also. I don't need a 500 my 458 Lott is enough gun.

Damn, Chuck!

THAT is fortitude!

Chuck,stop shooting and give it a rest.Be carefull...

I amno doctor but it looks like you popped a vessel.
I had a friend use my compound bow. The string hit him in the elbow area and he had a half a softball size lump of blood pooled there. Should have taken a pic of it.

I picked up a Heym Express Rifle in 450 Rigby from New_Guy last year and, although it has shot nothing but paper as yet, I am very fond of the caliber. Yes, it has only been around since the 90's, but what sounds more classic for Africa: Weatherby, Dakota, or Rigby?

Hey shootaway, the shoulder is fine now, I'm back to doing two sets of 50 pushups in the morning (Not bad for a guy who just turned 60). Actually that was day two, the bruise got bigger and more colorful as the week wore on lol ... My wife did make me go to the doctor, who asked if I was sure what end of the rifle I was on ...

Appreciate the concern,

Chuck

Dude..have your eyeballs stopped spinning yet?
I shoot the Barnes 600 grains at 2100,that's enough for me and I only do about 4 times a session!!...Hail Mary!!