Not sure yet as I am anxiously awaiting my .700AHR due here in August(late)..so I thought I may put out a few feelers.AHR (Americanhuntingrifles.com) is selling them like hotcakes now.I have 2 of them,a "plain" one in Kevlar and a Fancy one(see the AHR website above,it is the one next to the dead buff)It has ALL the bells and whistles..SS Pac Nor barrel 20",Huge Removable break and thread cap,hooded&banded frt sight,frt swivel,quarter rib,jeweled extractor,bolt and follower,3 pos safety,satin duracoat all over,QD rings and 2.5 Leupold,Blackwood forearm tip and PG Cap,Super custom checkering and XXX wood on Decelleerator pad.2) removable recoil reducers(11 pds with,9 1/2pds w/out...Also,NEW MPI Kevlar/glass stock(black-$800).Shoots and KILLS fantastic,cased with ammo,6-12 month wait,mine now(maybe)Kicks like a .22 ! (just kidding 8k

SK,
you mean you are thinking about selling your 600 Overkill made by AHR, right? As far as I know (heh) Rob invented the 600 OK, and AHR makes rifles in this caliber

Correct on both counts!Now I need rob to make us something to Really shoot FLAT at 1000 yds,Really Flat!(In a rifle I can carry hunting!)

338-505 gibbs or 338 cheytac...i just made it up...

155 grains capacity pushing some slick 338 bullets

buy the cz 505 and put a 28" 338 barrel on it

.50/.600 Ok2 case necked to .50BMG.About 230gr case capacity driving a 750 gr A-max. That shoots nice and flat to 1000yrds. Better BC than any cheytac and less wind drift too.
To be honest its still hard to beat a good .50BMG when the range gets long. Try a Mcmillan tactical stock and aim for 16lbs. You can carry that easily.-Rob

I like boomsticks 505/338 and your 600/50 or maybe 600/416 and I could use a CZ action....what barrel length and size could I get away with and still be practical,but accurate? 28" fluted #6? (plus 2" break)..Run me some numbers boys! I got a great smith who makes me what I want and rather fast,just gotta annie up!

the 338/505 i am calling the 338 omg! is the largest, cheapest while still being practical (lol) possible reach out far and touch someone gun that could be built on the cz action. buy the action from cz get whatever reinforced stock you want and i would say a minimum of 28" barrel to take advantage of the case size/bore.

use these or matchkings



adding a brake on the rifle adds inches...just think of it as a 24" barrel with a brake in it.

you could do a switch barrel with the cheytac and do the removable pilot reamer thing to do the 338.

the 338 is practical for the match bullets already made for the lapua.

the lapua is not overbore with heavy hunting or target bullets and so this would be perfect for that. get those heavies in the 3000 fps "accuracy" velocity envelope.

damn. i am good

Boomie you really need to quit designing phantasy cartridges and get some real shootin experience with real big bores.Hate to rain on the parade, but the CZ550 is about the last action I'd ever consider for a long range cartridge. They flex too much, have too little barrel tennon length and basically flat don't feed. Any real long range rifle that will shoot 1 MOA at 1000 yrds needs a ultra stiff action. I'd probably use a Mcmillan .50BMG action (repeater) with a .640 boltface. etc. The gun can still be built under 16 lbs. There are other match grade actions this could be done on,but a cZ550 won't cut it. Trust me, I tried it before. Will it go bang yes,but shoot MOA forget it.

If you want long range bang for the buck set up a match grade M700 action with a titanium sleeve and shoot a Lapua 250 gr in a .338 full size ultrmag case at 3200fps. Few and I mean few shooters can handle the accuracy potential of that cartridge and gun combo. It can shoot real hunting bullets too.! If you really want more BC than open it to .410. That will buy you a few feet less wind drift at 1000 yrds assuming you can judge the wind that well anyway. To be perfectly honest, despite 25 years of shooting 1000yrd matches where I absolutely know the range and have learned to judge the wind and mirage, it would close to pure luck for me to hit a dear sized animal at 1000yrds in the field with one shot if I didn't have the benefit of a prepared range. I've never seen anyone else do it either. Just look up how much drop and wind drift even a .50BMG has at that range.Yes its fun, but its also like golf where you only remember the great shots. You forget all the rest of them. -Rob

-Rob

well that was milder than the last "taken to the woodshed" post i got from you...

it the action i chose was poor i can live with that. you have far more experience in that than i dare say anyone here

the 338/505 would be great on a good rig i think. thanks for the help.

SafariKid - check out longrangehunting.com and read the posts about the 338 Edge or 338 Diablo - it is a 300 ultra case with the shoulder moved forward and the neck expanded to 338 - several guys here in Alaska have built these with Lilja barrels on model 700 actions and have shot some nice groups out there to +/- 600 yards. They are set up as single shots as the bullet is seated out quite a bit so it won't fit in the mag box. I have heard this cartridge can perform farther out but I don't know first hand. Rob is right, hitting way out there is tough.
Good luck - KMule

Rob and Boomstick,thanks for the info,enjoyed both post very much!..I just ordered a 338 Lapua,will be here next week...A HS Precison Rig with the right stuff and a Nightforce 5-22x56..I will get this badboy setup for "reality shots" of probably 600 yds max (for me)...This should get me warmed up for the Custom version being built as we speak...But I have realizzed as Rob said,after 600,much less 1000yds,you REALLY need to be a Very Experenced Pro to judge distance and esp wind! I looked over the drift charts and wow,it gets really bad after 600 no matter what you are shooting....and then in the field hunting,nothing is consistent,so what does that add to the equations!(LUCK Needed)...It was fun while it lasted! ..I dont have a problem with my "Megabores" at 40 yds with "Black Death" staring at me,so I will stick to that,for Now!(Alaska post,I looked into that,but went for the Lapua due to its track record and factory ammo)

quote:

If you want long range bang for the buck set up a match grade M700 action with a titanium sleeve and shoot a Lapua 250 gr in a .338 full size ultrmag case at 3200fps. Few and I mean few shooters can handle the accuracy potential of that cartridge and gun combo. It can shoot real hunting bullets too.! If you really want more BC than open it to .410. That will buy you a few feet less wind drift at 1000 yrds assuming you can judge the wind that well anyway. To be perfectly honest, despite 25 years of shooting 1000yrd matches where I absolutely know the range and have learned to judge the wind and mirage, it would close to pure luck for me to hit a dear sized animal at 1000yrds in the field with one shot if I didn't have the benefit of a prepared range. I've never seen anyone else do it either. Just look up how much drop and wind drift even a .50BMG has at that range.Yes its fun, but its also like golf where you only remember the great shots. You forget all the rest of them. -Rob

yup...that is the logical choice...have fun!

SAFARIKID will stave off blindness by using a peashooter like the .338 Lapua Mag. now and then.

If building any "Long Ranger" in .338 caliber, Kimosabi would do well to consider this bullet from GSC, the 295-grain SP:

It is not shown in the pic boomer posted above.

Tonto told me he has won some 1000-yard matches with the .338/295gr bullet, but he had to get a custom 1:7" twist for his .338 Lapua Mag. to do so.

He is also considering a .338/.395 Tatanka (aka .338 Lapua Magnum Long), but he can't decide whether to do that or just stick with the .338 Lapua.

The .338 Lapua Mag average pressure allowed by CIP cartridge spec is something like 68,250 PSI. Easily allowable in a CZ 550 Mag with a .590" case head.

A .640" case head on the CZ 550 is limited to about 55,000 PSI, another reason not to build a .505 Gibbs or .408 Chey-Tac on a CZ 550 Magnum.

Tonto does prefer a 1:10" twist barrel for his hunting bullets in the .338 Lapua: 200 to 250 grain cup and core or 180 to 232 grain monometal softs.

And Tonto likes a 1:9" twist for the 300-grain Sierra bullets.

Tonto is getting fed up with switching barrels and may decide to go with a .395 Tatanka with one barrel and one bullet weight: 340 grains at 2800 fps will get it done.


BTW, the .395/340-gr bullet is fourth from left in the picture boomer posted:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
338-505 gibbs or 338 cheytac...i just made it up...

155 grains capacity pushing some slick 338 bullets

buy the cz 505 and put a 28" 338 barrel on it

Boomy the 338 Cheytac has been around for a whilse300 SMKs at 3450 FPS..There are several versions depending on who did the wildcating.. 28 inches of barrel is not enough some are running 40 inchers.30 inches is as short as I am aware of.....Extremely flat shooting.The new Wilcat Aluminum tipped bullet are very interesting with a bc that makes the 300 grain SMK look like a dog....
The picture below is a Widcat 311 grain Aluminum Tipped bullet compaired to a 300 grain SMK...

Tonto likes to look at pictures.

The beautiful .338 Lapua Mag. made with brass that handles close to 70,000 PSI with ease:


50BMG and 338LM, a pair of "striking beauties":


The harlot and the angel lying down together, .408 Chey-Tac and .338 Lapua Mag.:


Head and tail:


Two more tails, these comparable to the 50BMG and .338 Lapua Mag., both fine cartridges:

jwp475,
Do you know what twist the .338 Chey-Tac used in its various versions? And what was the accuracy life of one of those barrels?

300 grainers at 3450 fps with a long barrel and a big action: sounds like an excuse for a .416 Barrett pushing 400-grainers at 3250 fps from a 32" barrel. BTW, the .416 Barrett uses a 12" twist.

From right:
577 Trex
.416 Barrett
.408 Chey-Tac
and
RugerCat mockups ...

Herr RIP-Meister!

Is there nothing you have not mocked up?

In 2005 we designed the S&H 475 LRV for a client who wanted to engage "targets" at 3000 meters with .5 moa accuracy. It's nifty if you like an 80lb rifle.........NO they're not for sale.

Wow,some Neat bullets to say the least....when is enough enough?! (Like I have room to talk!)

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
jwp475,
Do you know what twist the .338 Chey-Tac used in its various versions? And what was the accuracy life of one of those barrels?

300 grainers at 3450 fps with a long barrel and a big action: sounds like an excuse for a .416 Barrett pushing 400-grainers at 3250 fps from a 32" barrel. BTW, the .416 Barrett uses a 12" twist.

From right:
577 Trex
.416 Barrett
.408 Chey-Tac
and
RugerCat mockups ...

Most of the 338 CheyTacs were built with 10 twist,but with the new and longer Aluminum tipped bullets a 9 twist would be a better choice....The 311 Grain Aluminum tipped bullet works in the 338 Chey TAc with a 10 twist but not in the Laupa case which rquires a 9 twist...As to the amount of accuracy per barrel I do not know since no one has yet shot them enough (that I am aware of) to know......There are 3 builders of them that post on http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/index.php

I forgot to mention that one of the builders of the 408 CheyTac case necked to 338 and improved calls his the 338 AM and he killed a woodchuck at 2370 yards with his..........
Yes that is 2370 yards...

Hey Rob, I was reading where you say that the CZ550 would not be a good choice for a long range rifle.

I am having a custom 338 lapua made and have already bought a CZ550 action for this project. Is my CZ really that bad?

As for as actions what would be the best choice in a repeating bolt gun for longrange accuracey?

I am a CRF fan, and the CZ was my only choice as far as I know[ other than a GMA ].

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
I forgot to mention that one of the builders of the 408 CheyTac case necked to 338 and improved calls his the 338 AM and he killed a woodchuck at 2370 yards with his..........
Yes that is 2370 yards...

well when safari kid gets tired of his pea shooter he might look into it...i guess great minds think alike

jwp475,
Thanks for putting some more "spin" on the subject of twist. Such a high velocity as the .338/.505 Gibbs would make a 9" twist do the same RPS as a .338 Lapua Mag with a 7" twist. Muzzle velocity counts for something there too, as well as with 2370-yard woodchucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Herr RIP-Meister!

Is there nothing you have not mocked up?

In 2005 we designed the S&H 475 LRV for a client who wanted to engage "targets" at 3000 meters with .5 moa accuracy. It's nifty if you like an 80lb rifle.........NO they're not for sale.

Macifej,
Actually I have done very little "mocking-up."
Only pertinent to projects at hand. Notice that I somehow set the shoulder back and gave a longer neck to the .395/.375 Ruger. This will be set right in the upcoming .395 Ruger Max. Max will see to that.

What, pray tell, is the "S&H 475 LRV???"
Thank you in advance for this tour de force.

475 LRV "Long Range Vaporizer". Launches a 1250 grain .475" solid at 4500 fps. Very amusing except that no one other than Leica or Zeiss can build glass big enough to see anything at that range. Pointless really $25,000 gun with $250,000 glass. Of course at 1500 yards it's pretty handy except for the weight and the blast.

quote:

I forgot to mention that one of the builders of the 408 CheyTac case necked to 338 and improved calls his the 338 AM and he killed a woodchuck at 2370 yards with his..........

I think we've all heard these nonsensical stories about "Cheytac" this and that. Anyone who can see a woodchuck at that range much less hit him with a little .338 should be in the movies.

maxbear,
What Rob is talking about is the difference between sub-1/4-MOA and sub-1/2-MOA capabilities AT 100 YARDS.

Go ahead with your .338 Lapua on a CZ 550 Magnum. You will be pleased if you see to all the components and details. It is capable of sub-1/2-MOA AT 100 YARDS.

I have a 23" light-barreled .338 Lapua Mag. on a CZ 550 Mag. I also have a .375/.338 Lapua Mag. (9.5x69mm Tornado) on a CZ 550 Mag. in an ArmTec synthetic stock, with a heavy fluted stainless barrel that is 25.75" long.

These are both just fun guns, but they are accurate, the heavy barrel more so. They are hunting rifles.

The less expensive and easy .338 Lapua Mag. for long range accuracy would be the AR-30 from Armalite.

I will leave the discussion of action stiffness to those seeking bugholes at 1000 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
475 LRV "Long Range Vaporizer". Launches a 1250 grain .475" solid at 4500 fps. Very amusing except that no one other than Leica or Zeiss can build glass big enough to see anything at that range. Pointless really $25,000 gun with $250,000 glass. Of course at 1500 yards it's pretty handy except for the weight and the blast.

Jeez! What twist???

Gain-twist or smooth bore sabot and fin/dart stabilization? Wheeled carriage? Golf cart Mount?

Was the customer a government agency or a bored golfer?

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

I think we've all heard these nonsensical stories about "Cheytac" this and that. Anyone who can see a woodchuck at that range much less hit him with a little .338 should be in the movies.

I suppose that the documented shots at these ranges and the awards given for longest shots of the year are a big fraud........According to you anyway....

Not at all. Certainly can be done. However, humor yourself. Next time you're at the local range, try this! Stake out 2375 yards. OH! wait you say you don't have a 2500 yard range in your area? Guess what no one else does either. So pack up your gear and head to the desert (where we are) and stake out 2375 yards. Set up your 338 Chupacabra Especial or whatever you want to call it in the prone position (that's how you'll shoot in the field) have your buddy pack a lunch and hike out to your taget area and tie down a Woodchuck so he doesn't move (bigger than a gopher and smaller than a beaver) - then call up Zeus and ask him to stop the wind for a half hour while you set up the shot (range it) OH! wait your rangefinder (if you have a really big $$$$$ commercial one) is only accurate to .1% meter resolution at that range. That's plus or minus 20 mow (minute of woodchuck). Don't forget about the mirage and the super accurate second, third, and forth follow-up shots with a hot barrel.

You get the idea I'm sure. A truck at 2375 with a payload round! No problem! Varmints???

Do you acctualy shoot long range or just pontificate about it?

Thanks for clarifying that for me RIP. I should slow myself down before I begin to read these threads.

Thanks

quote:

Do you acctualy shoot long range or just pontificate about it?

NO! I only shoot my Daisy Red Rider at the indoor range! I'm not very good at it but I keep practicing.....

The banter is fun but really MAN!! Do you think the woodchuck story is realistic?

Since I know the Guy that conected on the 2370 shot yes I do believe it and since I know a gentle man that 2 years ago was runer up for longshot of the year at 2054 yards,,I would say that I definately do believe it...Incidently the record is 3000 odd yards and 2 gentlemen in Oklahoma are atempting to break tha record maybe this year if the rain would ever stop..Keep prafcticing with the Red Ryder.....

Don't you just love it when a thread goes off on a tangent? We learn a lot here by studying the trajectories of these ricochets.

Let's see...a mile is 1760 yards. So 2370 yardds is roughly 1.3 miles. At those distances, the curvature of the earth becomes a real factor in hitting a target. That, with wind, barometric pressure, temperature would make that a shooting formula for a computer.

With a 338 anything, the bullet is going to weigh no more than 350 grains. Factor in the optics needed to spot a ground hog at 2300 yards, with the ensuing mirage effect. I think it is more likely than not that this claim is total

I am sure that you have lots of experience in this area and are well qualified to call BS.....

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Let's see...a mile is 1760 yards. So 2370 yardds is roughly 1.3 miles. At those distances, the curvature of the earth becomes a real factor in hitting a target. That, with wind, barometric pressure, temperature would make that a shooting formula for a computer.

With a 338 anything, the bullet is going to weigh no more than 350 grains. Factor in the optics needed to spot a ground hog at 2300 yards, with the ensuing mirage effect. I think it is more likely than not that this claim is total

Checkout this thread
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/showthread.php?t...highlight=2370+yards

Believe it or call him a liar:


Seems plausible that luck and wind was with him that day, and that Kirby Allen has 20/10 vision, and good optics, and it happened once upon a time.


It won't happen again anytime soon, but it would be fun trying.

My choice for woodchucks past 2000 yards: I would choose to arm myself with a lot of luck and Divine intervention.

Keep in mind his shot is no where near the record distance for such kills....

Carlos Hathcock (Marine Corp, Sniper) in Vietnam had a confirmed kill at 2500 on a V.C. The longest kill in The War On Terror is 2700 hundred by a Canadian Sniper