guns and ammo has the 460g&a what about the ?a.r....

i know there are a few pet cartridges here 374-404, 470 mbogo ect why not come up with a new cart and name it after a.r.

we could have a poll on the which caliber, case volume and which parent case or maybe with all the great minds and tinkerers here a new case. it would be great to see how far it would go. (popularity wise)

so what caliber?

what case volume?

parent case or new case?

ect (taper, o.a.l., shoulder angle)

have fun with it, i think it will be interesting to see what a.r. can come up with


here is my vote... .475 on the lapua case with shoulder modification and longer o.a.l. than the standard lapua

Saeed sort of had that with his plans to build the 1.008 Vincent Buffalo Thumper.

Unfortunately that round never came to fruition. I would think if any round should be created related to this sight, it would have to be that one. I think the 700 NE was enough fun in the recoil and obtaining brass/bullet dept to put the brakes on the 1.008. Either that or no-one in the AR wrecking crew was brave/fool enough to light off something bigger

How 'bout a 50BMG necked down to .17. We can call it the AR17 Screamalott

the 600 overkill is just that..

as well as the 550 flanged, named with concensus of the group...

700DA
600OK
550 magnum
550 express
550 flanged

just to name the big in's

jeffe

Shorten the .404 case to work in the .458 length actions. Reform the case for .416 and walla.....(actually a necked up .375 Dakota.)

The 416 AR.....

This should be a (substantial?) improvement over the 416 Taylor.

Please don't anyone call it the 416 WSM!!!!!!!!!

vap, i like it!

what will be the case capacity?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
vap, i like it!

what will be the case capacity?

About 13 % more than the 416 Taylor.....add velocity of about 3% or roughly 100'/sec


This makes it the lott to the 458 ratio nearly

How about this? A 45 Caliber double rifle cartridge based on the 450 3 1/2 case, shortend to give 2150 fps with a 500 gr. bullet at low to medium pressure without fillers.

Dave

vap...so 2400fps with 400gr and 2700 300gr?

ideal ideal i dare say

that is on par with the rigby on the 400 and 150fps slower on the 300gr...hmmmm..vewwwwy intewesting

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:
How about this? A 45 Caliber double rifle cartridge based on the 450 3 1/2 case, shortend to give 2150 fps with a 500 gr. bullet at low to medium pressure without fillers.

Dave

that is the sharps straight 3 1/4

17/50 BMG exits already and is known as a pipe bomb

vap...would the case be 2.5"?

what about o.a.l.?

quote:

would the case be 2.5"?

Yes
OAL to fit the magazine. Same as the Taylor

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Shorten the .404 case to work in the .458 length actions. Reform the case for .416 and walla.....(actually a necked up .375 Dakota.)

The 416 AR.....

This should be a (substantial?) improvement over the 416 Taylor.

Please don't anyone call it the 416 WSM!!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys, but Ken Howell did that ...35 years ago!! And a grand cartridge it is, why it never caught on is hard to explain... He also necked it it down to 375, witch is a twin to the .375 Dakota, and also opened it up to .458, thus beeing simmilar to .460G&A Short.

It is starting to get really hard to come up with something new.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Shorten the .404 case to work in the .458 length actions. Reform the case for .416 and walla.....(actually a necked up .375 Dakota.)

The 416 AR.....

This should be a (substantial?) improvement over the 416 Taylor.

Please don't anyone call it the 416 WSM!!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys, But Ken Howell did that ...35 years ago!! And a grand cartridge it is, why it never caught on is hard to explain... He also necked it it down to 375, witch is a twin to the .375 Dakota, and also opened it up to .458, thus beeing simmilar to .460G&A Short.

It is starting to get really hard to come up with something new.

Well that sucks!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Well that sucks!!!!!

But we could do it with a .423...
.404 AR.
Then we would have cases with correct headstamp, and also some more f/s withe same bullet weigt.

I like it.
It should be far better than Hopkins .425 Express.
Well, at least some...in teory..

Somebody has surely done it before, although I have not read about it anywere.

quote:

But we could do it with a .423...
.404 AR.

How about joining the "uppity" H&H crowd and use a .411 bullet.

The 400 CARB....(Cape accurate reloading Buffalo)

I love the concept!

What does Saeed shoot? Isn't it a 404/375? Is that his own cartridge?

quote:

What does Saeed shoot? Isn't it a 404/375? Is that his own cartridge?

That's my understanding.....it is in effect the .375 RUM and way before Remington bought it out.

I'm also under the impression that Saeed can shoot well enough to do the job with substantially less cartridge than that.

quote:

Originally posted by Thumpper470:
17/50 BMG exits already and is known as a pipe bomb

LMFAO!!!!

the primer flash hole wold be larger than the neck

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:


Sorry guys, but Ken Howell did that ...35 years ago!! And a grand cartridge it is, why it never caught on is hard to explain... He also necked it it down to 375, witch is a twin to the .375 Dakota, and also opened it up to .458, thus beeing simmilar to .460G&A Short.

It is starting to get really hard to come up with something new.

I'm still kicking myself for not having one built, as I purchased Ken's original reamer from him, though the smith that has it is no longer doing work.

I think there were a variety of reasons for why it didn't catch on, but which could be summed up as the right design introduced at the wrong time. In the early 80's, 404 J brass was hard to come by, and so were .416" componet bullets. Also the economy in the states in the early 80's wasn't so great, high inflation, high interest rates, and generally not alot of folks with $ to build custom rifles, or hunt in Africa.

When Remington brought out their 416, Wetherby theirs, and Ruger offered the 416 Rigby, Africa became affordable, the limited market for 40 cal dgr's was flooded.

The 416 Howell just fell into a catch 22 situation, it came out when having one was a tough proposition, and now that there is the brass, bullets and tyro's to buy them, most folks want a factory round.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

But we could do it with a .423...
.404 AR.

How about joining the "uppity" H&H crowd and use a .411 bullet.

The 400 CARB....(Cape accurate reloading Buffalo)

a.r.411 sounds better...though i like the a.r. 416 better. but i like the 416 lapua even better

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

What does Saeed shoot? Isn't it a 404/375? Is that his own cartridge?

That's my understanding.....it is in effect the .375 RUM and way before Remington bought it out.

Ahh...well, actually it came out some time before 1920 as the 9,5x73 Miller-Greiss, developed by two gunsmiths from Munich, Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Well that sucks!!!!!

But we could do it with a .423...
.404 AR.
Then we would have cases with correct headstamp, and also some more f/s withe same bullet weigt.

I like it.
It should be far better than Hopkins .425 Express.
Well, at least some...in teory..

Somebody has surely done it before, although I have not read about it anywere.

Yes, Dakota did it as the .404 Dakota, a shortie that will fit in a standard length M98 action. That is cool.

Then there is the upcoming .423 Dakota-Lapua that gets 50 fps more MV with 400 grainers than the .404 Dakota does.

It think it should be based on the 45-70...

Regards,
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Marterius:
It think it should be based on the 45-70...

Regards,
Martin

A .404-70.....Marterius, you're one sick man......but I'm still laughing

even i thought that was funny as hell

Well, considering the company, it has to be a bolt action.
And therefor rimless. It also has to either have a 4" drop at 300yd or put out 4k FPE with SD over .30.
If it's going to actually be chambered and used, it needs a purpose, and it really seems that every possible iteration has been done from short to long actions, .223" to .510", efficient to flame thrower.
There seems to be an idea that the Rigby pushing 500g at 2500 is too high pressure, so maybe we need a 458-505 IMP. Weatherby speeds at Rigby pressures.
On the other end of the spectrum, there's already a ton over overbore smaller calibers, from .264" to 375".
If need is invention's mother, this thing will be a bastard for sure!
What about a 505-based .550" round, to fit the new PH from MRC?

If we can get MRC to make PH with little
bigger changes we want, some of us will put my short(3.25 in) 700H in it. If we did enough
of them, we could call it the 700AR. Something with AR in the name should be more than
a common low(less than 12k ft lbs) powered cartridge...Ed

quote:

If need is invention's mother, this thing will be a bastard for sure!

i think it should be big bore low preasure round but shootable not a "i dare you to shoot this" gun. i like the 416-550 or 423 if you want to be a tad diferent

i like the 416-505 too

Get this group to agree on a caliber?

Why don't we do something easier, like come up with a plan for lasting world peace.

yup yer'right...well need to vote than all agree

the 510 rigby sounds tempting...just continue the taper and viola...(probably more complicated than that) I know rebated rim is a sin here but 510-ultra mag looks neet...can it be done...has it been done?

people here love the mbogo...maybe we could neck up .035 to 510 and have a 500 mbogo renamed 500 a.r. if smaller is our deal neck down .017 to 458 and have 450 mbogo renamed 450 a.r. or just have a supersized 416 on the mbogo case

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Well, considering the company, it has to be a bolt action.
And therefor rimless. It also has to either have a 4" drop at 300yd or put out 4k FPE with SD over .30.
If it's going to actually be chambered and used, it needs a purpose, and it really seems that every possible iteration has been done from short to long actions, .223" to .510", efficient to flame thrower.
There seems to be an idea that the Rigby pushing 500g at 2500 is too high pressure, so maybe we need a 458-505 IMP. Weatherby speeds at Rigby pressures.
On the other end of the spectrum, there's already a ton over overbore smaller calibers, from .264" to 375".
If need is invention's mother, this thing will be a bastard for sure!
What about a 505-based .550" round, to fit the new PH from MRC?

It is called the 550 Gibbs Mag and all I am waiting for is the PH action. The case drawing is done brass is taken care of and it should take care of any recoil craving shooters.
RNS

Boom Stick, the consensus is that a .510" Rigby will not have adequate headspace. I talked alot about it last year, trying to get someone to agree that it would be the next best thing to sliced buffalo, but no one would concur.
Admittedly it would have very little taper and very little shoulder, but the Nyati has same and seems to do fine with judicious handling of chamber, reloading dies and brass. Van Horn did it with a 2.6" case IIRC. How about a 416cal based on a blown-out Gibbs? In a 4" action you could seat 400g spitzers and shoot them out at maybe 2900 for a buff-sized 300 Winchester!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Boom Stick, the consensus is that a .510" Rigby will not have adequate headspace. I talked alot about it last year, trying to get someone to agree that it would be the next best thing to sliced buffalo, but no one would concur.
Admittedly it would have very little taper and very little shoulder, but the Nyati has same and seems to do fine with judicious handling of chamber, reloading dies and brass. Van Horn did it with a 2.6" case IIRC. How about a 416cal based on a blown-out Gibbs? In a 4" action you could seat 400g spitzers and shoot them out at maybe 2900 for a buff-sized 300 Winchester!

would be a great round.. i believe two versions are the 416 royale and the 416 chey-tac...

and wells did a 416x585nyati..

550 gibbs... damn neal, *MY* shoulder hurts from the thought of that one.

jeffe

What about the RUM case? Maybe taking it up to .470, should outdo the Capstick and Nitro. Maybe make a *small* change to the case so you have the freedom to change the name to Accurate Reloading... Maybe the .470 Accurate Reloading Ultra Magnum?

o.k. so has someone done the 458-505 gibbs let me guess 450 royale the 458 would give a good selection of tough bullets though 400 gr 416s @ 2900 sounds unreal either that or the 416-mbogo and maybe crank the 416 400 gr@ 2700 have not heard anyone say thats been done although the gibbs has.

You guys really need to spend some time and understand the realities of headspacing. Sorry dudes .025 flat doesn't work for a shoulder to headspace against. You need at least .030 each side or it will not work. Period. Never has and never will! Do you really understand the consequences of getting this wrong? Try hospital time or reconstructive eye surgery as an example. The Nyati is a disaster as a cartridgeand only a few have made it work and they have changed the original dimensions. Belted cartridges have much more flexibility. You will find that very few new wildcat cartridges actually exist. Most that work have already been described. There are a host of bad ideas that have died.-Rob