rip...no adopting the 450 boom stick?

quote:

It could be used for any bullet and in all but the shortest of actions (seat long for 3.8" box, or seat short +/- trim brass 0.100" for the 3.4" box ... depending on the length of the bullet nose, etc.). That freebore would allow the use of any milsurp 50 BMG bullet and the Hornady 750 grain A-Max

i loooooove this idea!

i think both lengths are good

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rip...no adopting the 450 boom stick?

boomer,
The .450 BS was just the .457 Lapua Tembo with its neck trimmed short ... not unique enough.

the .477 JAR and .507 JAR will do ... or whatever else Jeffe wants to do.

A .500 AR of some sort does make sense as a progression for his AR cartridges. He needs a new case to grow any bigger than .475 caliber.

My .510 JAB is destined to become a .507 JAR.

I gotta get to work now.

Adios for a while.

quote:

boomer,
The .450 BS was just the .457 Lapua Tembo with its neck trimmed short ... not unique enough.

not compared to the tembo but it follows the kiss rule and will work in a ruger mk 2

unique can be bad sometimes...

work well!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Page 414 of Ken Howell's book, Custom Cartridges:


If we just add 0.125" of neck length to this we get a cartridge that has a .5000" long neck, and brass that is 2.7000" long: .507 JAR

.507 JAR will use .416 Rigby basic brass instead of turning the belts off of .460 WBY brass.

Now, if we shorten the the .507 JAR by 1/8" neck trim, what we have is not the .500 Van Horn Express, but rather:

.500 Boom Stick

Oops!

what was that last point?

doing this on the lapua brass will have an advantage...cheaper better brass and higher preasure if you want...

500 boom stick!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what was that last point?

doing this on the lapua brass will have an advantage...cheaper better brass and higher preasure if you want...

500 boom stick!

Boomer!
I will not neck up .338 Lapua Magnum to .510 caliber.

I suggest a 2.2500" long case for a ".500 BS-Whisper" type cartridge. This would allow you to completely cut away the .338 neck and part of the shoulder, then blow out the .Lapua case body and shoulder and neck that down to .510.

As for the .507 JAR, I forsee using the .500 Van Horn Express shoulder and headspace:

1. Neck trimmed to 0.3750" long for a 2.5750" case exactly (Van Horn neck length which is better than a .500 Jeffery's 0.3440" neck length): .500 Van Horn Improved (Rigby case head) or, .500 JAR
0.750" bullet nose length plus 2.5750" case = 3.325", fits in a 3.4" box ... In-Line stack???

2. Neck lengthened to 0.5000" long for a 2.7000" trim-to-length case, exactly (or 0.5100" neck for 2.7100" max case length). .507 Jamison Accurate Reloading, .507 JAR
(for 3.6" box, or long nose loading in 3.8" box)

3. Neck lengthened to 0.7500" long for a 2.9500" case max, 2.9400 trim-to length exactly (shades of the .404 Jeffery neck (0.624"), since the equivalent in .510 caliber would be about 0.7520"). .509 JAR
(for 3.8" boxes only)

These will be unique since the case body is .416 Rigby basic instead of the beltless .460 Weatherby used by Mr. Van Horn: A few thous' difference in head and rim.

This does borrow heavily from Mr. Van Horn, since he has worked out the shoulder geometry with a 40 degree angle, and for this minimal shoulder, I like that better than the 45 degree angle of the .416 Rigby.

Boomer: Get to work on the Lapua based 2.2500" .500 BSW. It is all yours. A gift from AR, just as the inspiration for the .507 JAR has been a gift from AR to me.

Thanks, Jeffe.

Now I will end this thread highjack.

I'll be drawing up the reamer specs and get "Dave" to make the reamer ... if Mr. Jamison can supply suitable .416 Rigby basic brass, for the .509 JAR.

The .470 Mbogo will do for .475 caliber at HA!/DOA, but we could use an Original Big Fifty.

I think either the .507 or .509 JAR will do.
HA!/DOA.

good stuff rip...

what say you jeffeosso, have you made any revisions?

Would a long neck following the pilot and throat make a better supported, more solid, less wobble potential, transition into the small shoulder area of the chamber reaming???

Maybe this would aid in precision chambering??? Talking single reamer here, with no separate neck and throat reamer.

The .505 Gibbs has a 0.652" neck.
The .404 Jeffery has a 0.624" neck.

I am so confused....

RIP,
what are we doing again?

2.7" just moving the shoulder forward .2 with the neck at 2.7?

that would form jamison's brass perfect, and be the all around, i think

jeffe

Jeffe,
Sorry for going off on a tangent.

I think you could split the difference between your design and the .500 Van Horn Express and have a full 50-cal neck length and a brass length of 2.5750" and fit well in a 3.4" box length.

Now I want a 2.95" case with a .7500" neck length, which might help with the 750 and 800 grainers loaded single shot in a CZ 550 Magnum.

I am hopeless. Excuse please for the highjack.

The 2.7" case with .5" neck length would surely be agreeable with me, and it would certainly not give up anything ballistically with long nose seating in a 3.8" box.

Short nose seating in 3.6" box.

Ron,

let's do this...

make the bodies the same, just longer neck... that way it's just throater depth.....

WHEW!! i could have said that wrong

Jeffe,
You mean "neck and throat" reamer plus the body reamer?

A Van Horn type body out to 2.2000" neck start with integral .3750" neck, then punch it out to a .5100" neck, and a .7500" neck length with the separate neck and throat reamer?

What would Robgunbuilder say about that???

I think it would work great.

Three cartridges of 2.575" (short neck), 2.710" (caliber neck), and 2.950" (long neck) max brass: 3 action lengths.

All would have the same throat, capable of handling 50 BMG Milsurp bullets as above, eh?

Poo. Who exactly is going to want the long version? Assuming nom. 3.75" COL, we're looking at 1.55" from shoulder to tip. Might be good for the long-and-pointies, but you won't get much speed out of a 650+g bullet from that case. Make it a RN and that has to be about 700g worth!
Take it for what it's worth, but it seems - given the basic premise - the shorter round could deal with a 2.3-2.7" neck better (would seat that 535g just about right at 3.34") and then the long neck wouldn't be soooo long at the base. Especially for those monos.
($.02 on me. ;-P )

Above post editied to correct my neck/throat typo's.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Poo. Who exactly is going to want the long version? Assuming nom. 3.75" COL, we're looking at 1.55" from shoulder to tip. Might be good for the long-and-pointies, but you won't get much speed out of a 650+g bullet from that case. Make it a RN and that has to be about 700g worth!
Take it for what it's worth, but it seems - given the basic premise - the shorter round could deal with a 2.3-2.7" neck better (would seat that 535g just about right at 3.34") and then the long neck wouldn't be soooo long at the base. Especially for those monos.
($.02 on me. ;-P )

Most .510 caliber hunting bullets are about 1.5" long. Why have them sticking down into the powder and not gripped by neck if you can help it.

If you want to use the stubbier 535 grainers, feel free.

The 2.575" case will seat 570 and 600 grain hunting bullets in the 3.4" box (3.34" COL). It will also handle any milsurp or target bullet to 800 grains by single loading.

I require the longer case, for greater case capacity in the CZ 550 Magnum.

That .7500" long neck would be interesting.

2.2000" plus 0.7500" = 2.9500" brass length.

Go as short as you like.

I would like to try all three lengths I have mentioned, no shorter than that please.

has the lapua brass been scraped on the a.r.-b.s.?

I hear you, RIP, I just can't imagine making this thing up, then not wishing the shoulder were forward on the long case. You'll lose about 15g of powder over a 2.5" shoulder. Maybe not enough to cry over, but enough to say, 'dang, why didn't I just make another reamer for $120?'

Boom Stick, if it makes you feel better, I will definitely try using that case if/when I get around to my little stubby. It's only 2.4" long with the neck starting at 2.0", and the LM's shoulder starts at around 2.160" so I could size the body and blow out the neck easily (then turn of course.)
Kind of a trade-off: I imagine the LM brass allowing higher pressure, but the Rigby giving a wee more capacity.

That is a good point.
Three separate reamers, all with 0.5100" neck length and cases 2.5", 2.7" and 2.9", and all with separate/different headspace gauge ... plus your 2.4" case.

Nobody could cry foul over that.

Back to the .500 AR.

I'll just do one of some sort for the CZ 550 Magnum.

b.b.

i like the lapua for this...

it is not a nostalgia cart and the cheaper stronger more avaliable brass will make more sense and if you hotload it you wont knock on wood first (synthetic stock people out of luck)

just my 2c. but whatever it is it will be great!

big flat nose, barnes tsx and bmg surplus

rip...

can we name these to differentiate easily...

more choice is good

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
b.b.

i like the lapua for this...

it is not a nostalgia cart and the cheaper stronger more avaliable brass will make more sense and if you hotload it you wont knock on wood first (synthetic stock people out of luck)

just my 2c. but whatever it is it will be great!

big flat nose, barnes tsx and bmg surplus

Well, the thing is, as the neck gets bigger the brass gets thinner. And the further from the original dia you go, the harder it is to get anything like concentric. Using 416 Rigby brass means almost half the stratching, and going from Rigby basic makes it a non-issue. Plus, there's the fact that LM brass is only - what? - 2.73" long?

so only on the shortest would it work...

would the 423 dakota lapua be usefull when it comes out?

This is making my head hurt.

I am even starting to like the trace of rebate on the RUM brass, and the .500 A-Square sure looks good now too.

I am going back to my .375 Weatherby now. See you next year on this topic.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, may this thread Rest In Peace ... The .500 Mbogo 3 Inch is what is needed.
.500 M3I

rip...please expound...the other carts are still a good idea even if you dont want to add them to your lineup...give more details on the m3i...

Simple:
The .500 Mbogo 3 Inch is the .470 Mbogo necked up to .510 and reamer made to give a .5100" long neck. That would make overall brass about 3.0400" at max length.

Simply fire the brass until it stretches to that length or until Jamison International make s Rigby Basic brass that is a full 3.0000" long.

Now, RIP?

just (back)ordered 40 pieces of hornady 416 rigby from midway...

might have to drag this up to a bubba shoot!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
might have to drag this up to a bubba shoot!

Keith

Wow...thread resurrection

that's bc i couldn't find the newer one

Thread resurrection: The thread where the 500 Accurate Reloading was introduced and redesigned by committee,
and the 500 Mbogo-3" was finalized, by me, as a simple neck-up and slight lengthening of Dave Estergaard's 470 Mbogo.
Thanks Dave Estergaard.
And I finally bit the bullet and ordered the Manson reamer for the 500 Mbogo, announced on this thread way back when.
Initial drawing of the 500 AccRel in first post was changed along the way.
Note that Jeffeosso was thinking of calling a cartridge the "500 Mbogo Short" before the "500 Accurate Reloading" was finalized.
Everything old is new again, like the name "500 Mbogo Short" and it still ain't no "500 AccRel."

The Weatherby-belted ".510 Van Horn" was a 2.5" version that was supposed to move a 600 grainer at 2300 to 2400 fps using 90 grains of IMR-3031
I own one of these and there is no way a sane person would shoot this Even pushing my 600 OK to my max recoil tolerance isn't as brutal as the 600 grain pushed to 2300 much less 2400.
I have 500 barrel and several donor rifles along with the dies for the 500 AR and guess I should go ahead and get one made up to see how well it does compared to the 500 A2.


Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
The Weatherby-belted ".510 Van Horn" was a 2.5" version that was supposed to move a 600 grainer at 2300 to 2400 fps using 90 grains of IMR-3031
I own one of these and there is no way a sane person would shoot this ... Frank

Yep,
Real men shoot 9.5-pound 500 Mbogo-3" rifles with 23" barrels.
I got one. It's handy.
A 9.5-pound M98 500 Mbogo Short-2.7" should be almost as satisfying.

Frank,
Besides the ".510 Van Horn" ... ? ...
there is the "500 Van Horn Express" made by turning the belts off of the 460Wby brass:

See the 1991 Guns Annual article about it on the "500 Mbogo Short (aka 50-12)" thread.
Resurrected by popular demand.

quote:

See the 1991 Guns Annual article about it on the "500 Mbogo Short (aka 50-12)" thread.
Resurrected by popular demand.

Thanks RIP, very interesting read. The man was quite a designer.
These wildcat variations are going to kill my fun budget once again.
Frank

I still haven't got my 500AR together...Stupid military keeps sending to places overseas and my project gets forgot about.

I got the dies, dummy rounds, Mauser VZ24 action and even a stock blank...Just need to send it off anf paitently wait.

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
I still haven't got my 500AR together...Stupid military keeps sending to places overseas and my project gets forgot about.

I got the dies, dummy rounds, Mauser VZ24 action and even a stock blank...Just need to send it off anf paitently wait.

Within 30 days McGowen should have a 2nd finish chamber reamer available - the 500 AccRel Nyati - which is the 500 AccRel with a short parallel-sided freebore designed to optimize use with available .51 caliber hunting bullets. This reamer wil be paired with the existing 500 AccRel finish chamber reamer and gauges... Your wait has resulted in having a choice...

Jim,

Uh ... 500 AccRel Nyati ... eh?
Nyati, not Mbogo.


Be careful about using a standard 500 AccRel finish reamer if it had the 1.25"-long PS-free-bore on it.
Surely it must, or there would have been no need to get a special 500 AccRel Nyati reamer made with short throat.
Go and No-Go gages will be the same for both the 500 AccRel
and
500 AccRel Nyati, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,

Uh ... 500 AccRel Nyati ... eh?
Nyati, not Mbogo.

Yes my bad... It is the 500 AccRel Nyati! Corrected above...

Guess I've had your 500 Mbogo Short on the brain to much lately... I just need to point the brain elsewhere for awhile and let it flush out... LOL...