I expect you enjoyed your sojourn and it was too short and passed too quickly...as usual.

I used to camp somewhere in Nev weekly...always up in the higher elevations where it was COOL and green...now that I move into the woods of Oregon I haven't really camped out in 10 years...a few overnighters in the back of the PU when I let the time get away...eveything I've wanted and liked all my life and had to drive hours to get to, is within an hours drive or less...so I can enjoy the "woods" and be home in time for a nice soft warm bed...


Do you have a 500 AR reamer I can rent if I go forward with my Savage LA project and need one??? Thanks

I turned out two ALUM 500 AR "cartridges" yesterday and tried them in the SAV mag...Just a little too tight...I will need to do some mag box work or I ordered another RUM mag box...looks like just a little shaping will work for a single stack two capacity box...time will tell.


I was thinking of the "Golden Years" in terms of the beginnings...all the "stuff" I went through developing something "new and different" and how difficult it was to come up with a safe load with the components that were available 40 odd years ago.

I think today we are in the "Platinum Years"...a surfet of components, relatively "cheap" and easily available reamers, barrels and rifle building components, and so forth...plus the "Digital age of Software"...ANYONE can design a wildcat nowadays...ANYONE can develope a safe beginning load with a few minutes of computer time and the right software programs...

CNC equipment makes it easy AND cheap (relatively speaking)to obtain a reamer, prefit barrels make almost anyone with a few mechanical abilities and limited "gunsmithing" knowledge able to build their own rifles.

Anyway...I wasn't dissing anyone with my thoughts and observations...there is still plenty of wildcatting going on but I think it is much easier, cheaper and quicker to do...and it still needs an audience and those people are getting fewer and fewer.

When I have the dollars to spend all at once, I can turn out a rifle capable of accuracy equal to most benchresters of "way back", in a couple of weeks wait time at the most, for almost ANY caliber for the reamer and barrel...the rest of the components are a matter of days away. It does take a little more time and effort for the really BIG calibers and cases, to get them to feed from a "standard" receiver and I'm not in any way a "gunsmith".

Back in the bad old days I paid through the nose (in 1960 dollars), for barrels and reamers, and the smithing I couldn't do, waited months in some cases for the work to be done, and had to do most of the stock work myself...today I can buy a "U-finish stock" that needs little more than exterior sanding and finishing, some epoxy bedding or just a synthetic stock needing hardly any fitting at all...

CNC and the digital era has changed this sport for the better...but all that hard earned "secret" knowledge is quickly going by the wayside and the "oldies but goodies" die off.

We are in the age of "instant gratification"...much of the information of "how to build a rifle" is readily available on the net...most of the information about benchrest preping ammo is there also...hardly any "sweat equity" is involved in developing loads...

I don't think there are all that many who experiment all that much either, but that may just be an artifact of where I live...hardly anyone spends any time working out loads...seems like...but that is probably no different today as it was in the past...some have a deeper interest than others and if "-mart" ammo gets my deer/elk etc every year, why bother with anything else...a good point.

Luck on your endeavors...

Forgot to ask...

How is the barrel count going for the 490 AR???

Just talked to John Frost at McGowen about the 500 AR, so if I can add my 2 cents to the barrel count it might help...

How is the bullet sizer die availability coming along??? That is a must have option also.

Thanks

Luck on your prjects.

Foobar,
McGowen has the 500 AR reamer in hand, right now

Thanks Jeffe...

Anyone have the ACTUAL base measurements for Hornday 416 Rigby brass??? I hit every online store I could find and NO ONE has 416 Hornady brass...

So I made up 3 490/500 AR dummys and a dummy chamber to start working on the magazine and feeding, plus a gauge for the bolt head and will do the bolt head tomorrow...



Looks like 2 in the mag single stack comfortably and a minimal amount of whittling to get them to feed. If I split two mag boxes and I might get 3 staggered...I will work on the after getting the rifle put together.


Jeffe...Will there be any problems with using the profile you posted with the Sav 110 action???...the CZ profile, lenth and twist are fine with me. The Sav receiver is 1.345" OD.

Once I get all the pieces and parts put together and working where do I sent the bolt/receiver and get the dies from...you or McGowen???

Thanks

Luck on your projects.

Foobar
the savage thread is an inchxsomething, right? That profile works on the ruger, the cz, and mausers.. i can't imagine it wouldn't work on the savage

If you want the 500, McGowen has the reamer, headspace gages, and dummies on hand. I have a couple sets of 500 AR dies left, on hand. therefore you send the action to McGowen, and we'll swap shipping info on the dies.

If you do the 490, it will be at least 6 months, due to normal concerns, and could be a year, honestly, to go from stopped to 49caliber, with normal considerations.
jeffe

Hummmmm..Thanks Jeffe...I've been looking at 50 cals and some way to get a project started for almost two years...so if I don't get one off the ground now I never will.

I tried like the dickens to get a 50cal going on the SMLE 2a action but had to settled for a 458WM because of the mag length 3.04" limitation and a couple of other considerations.

I looked at doing and even SHORTER version of the 500 AR...a two and a quarter 50x2.25" Rigby... but blew that off due to the price of the reamer and dies and the fact that there wasn't much differenc between that and the 458WM except a slightly bigger bullet.

I could have designed my own cartridge but that total cost was WAY beyond the value of the finished package.

My Savage, an older version, is 1.055"x20tpi x1.345" OD...the WSM, SAUM, RUM ones are 1.12"x20tpi. Some barrel shanks are 1.062" so the receiver threads can be cleaned up and squared. I don't know the OD on the CZ receiver, but McGowen will do any profile I want so it doesn't matter in this application.

I will go with the 500 AR then...can't wait any longer...I'm way to antsy when I got my teeth into something good.

PM me your address and price for the 500 AR dies and I will get a MO off to you next month.

Thanks

Luck on your projects.

Foobar
I sent you a PM!
best of luck! Its a fun round!

Ahhhhh...success with the 500 AR...I made a new follower and got the Savage to feed two rounds single stack perfect and slick as goose gobs...with a little more effort and by tapering the sides of the mag box I think I can get three rounds down without much trouble...the boltface is done...the McGowen barrel is almost finalized...I think I will soon have another shooter. Now to order some boolits.

This is definitely NOT a DGR, but will be one hellofa elk/moose/pig/brush buster...

I feel great...it's always gratifying when things come together and actually work...Of course I'm not anywhere near Rob and his 12GaFH two-shooter, but I'm a grungy junk yard dog anyway...as long as it does it's job, I don't mind a little dirt or grease here and there...

The 12GaFH is emerging from the bedding process and is close to painting...weather getting nasty again so that will have to wait a few days. Time to slick'um'pucky the .735 lead slugs with alox and get some loads going for the "Beast-Buster of the Cascades". :lol

Thanks for all the help, directly and indirectly...

Luck on your projects.

excelent news, man!

Jeffe,

How are the .49 Kali’s coming? Do you have enough participants to make it happen yet?

Jim,
No sir, but I am ordered the tooling anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Jim,
No sir, but I am ordered the tooling anyway.

Is the buy-in still $445?

Jim,
I am going to go ahead and order the tooling, someitme this summer, for the barrels to be made. I'll redo the 500 AR to use the 49 caliber, and away we go!

Since the interest wasn't enough to order a 10 pack of anything, i will try to arrange a package that people can buy, if they like

McGowen will be getting back to me on the tooling costs. We are rolling

since big Jack seems to have some interest in the 49

amazing, i ordered this stuff, i THOUGHT a year ago .. apparently a firm order and CC number didn't make the ball roll ... it'll get done

anyone want in?

revised
.498 groove, .492 bore ..
twist will still be 1:12
allows resized .500 bullets EASY

barrel conture will be changed to allow for reuse of ruger stock, no filler ... its been my work motto "its IN it" in regards to making stuff easy ...

it appears my order failed to be actually "placed"
starting again --
and ordering BSD498 from CH4D, which is a push through sizing die at 498. $65 bucks - 6 months wait.

you'll be able to size .500 to .498, and have a 49 caliber .. not a THING about it will be .500 or greater.. aint no fifty

Why not? We did it for the .600Ok. Its always wise to protect yourself against the mindless laws and enforcers of those laws.-Rob

A few questions on someone joining the thread late and trying to make sense.

1. What is the difference between this 49 AccRel and a "49-based-on-Lapua-338-brass" in another thread?

2. Why .492" riflings instead of .490", if working back from .498"?

3. On bullets, wouldn't someone like Cutting Edge just do a run of a few thousand .498" if ordered? Swaging all-copper doesn't seem like a good idea, when one considers that even .500" is a special commodity for modern rifle.


And for what it's worth, my FFL in California told me that I could build a .500 if I want, just "As long as they're bolt action or semi auto that dont take a magazine." He's not a lawyer, of course, but didn't bat an eye at a 505 Gibbs, 500 AccRel, etc.

1 - RIP called his .500 a 49, like AA called the .510 shorty a .495 .. no reason, other than decided name. In this case, there is NOTHING that can be construed as .500+
2: why .492? simple - that's the bore for .500 bullets -- I didn't feel like requiring "real" .498 bullets, and a drawn .500 to .498 is trival, for all but copper .. a swage for jacketed bullets is 65 bucks.. for copper/brass, its 130 ... and the same level of exercise.. imperial sizing wax and push through. ..
3: partially answsered above, and a "incorrect" assumption. there's an adundance of .500 bullets, of all constructions, and 500gr is easily available .. with an sd of .288 ...

there is no LEGITIMATE way someone can construe .498 as greater than .500 ..

could you size down .510 to .498? would likely require 3 or 4 draw dies. just to answer that unasked question

Jeff, my assumption is that all this .495 stuff is to get around a potential ban of anything fifty caliber or over going to Africa. Do you believe that will happen without some kind of exception for the .505 Gibbs or the .500 Jeffery and other really traditional African calibers? People talk about a 50 caliber ban all the time but I haven't seen any movement to actually ban the the 50.

Dave,
i do believe there will be a 50 ban .. eventually .. in cali, NJ, and NY first

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
1 - RIP called his .500 a 49, like AA called the .510 shorty a .495 .. no reason, other than decided name. In this case, there is NOTHING that can be construed as .500+
2: why .492? simple - that's the bore for .500 bullets -- I didn't feel like requiring "real" .498 bullets, and a drawn .500 to .498 is trival, for all but copper .. a swage for jacketed bullets is 65 bucks.. for copper/brass, its 130 ... and the same level of exercise.. imperial sizing wax and push through. ..

Is the brass case the same? Will it be the same?
In other words is the 49 Lapua the same cartridge as the 49 Acc Rel?

And do you think that .006" rifling will be enough grip for accuracy, when most smaller calibres already use .007" and .008"?

The cases are shortened rigby .. which, after a fashion, gets around to the 495 lapua that rip has done .. that case is very close to the 500 AccRel, but not the same ...

i like hornady 416 rigby brass.. ALOT .. its cheaper than most and forms very well .. i had poor luck with lapua cases, myself, and gave up on that route.

i do think that .006 will be more than enough for accuracy.. many well known, highly accurate barrels are between .008 and .005 .. 270 and 7 mm are commonly .007, as well as .375, .475 - etc ..

seems reasonable ..

and lets not be confused, the 49/495 laupa is NOT a 49 caliber.. its a .500

Well
Finally the tooling is in. It's a .498x.492 12 twist.

I have ordered the first barrel and the reamer will be the 500 accrel nyati redone to 49 caliber.

This could be a neat specialty round

No fifty about it. None what so ever. And if the button wears is goes .4975 not bigger

I think a 49 bmg would be very interesting

Congratulations.

It looks like another nice cartridge, and I approve the AccRel Nyati base choice
In the meantime, we'll keep using .510" because it's good, too.

Jeffe,

I think a 49 OverKill would be the cats meeeeouch on the PH action I have. Only problem is getting the damn OK cases. Captech has a long whiney story about why they don't make them anymore. I find it hard to believe OK is the only case made from that particular doubloon and they are really sooooooo hard to get raw materials.

Andy B

Before planning a 49 Overkill, a person must ask themselves what they want?

A .498" bullet can be made from 350grains to 700 grains quite easily. The cartridge capacity will then dictate a maximum muzzle energy for each powder/bullet combination, although they will tend to group around the same level.

So the question becomes what upper level muzzle energy do people want to shoot with and hunt with? Each person will need to decide for themselves.

For me, I am happy with an upper threshhold around 7000 foot pounds. I am not interested in regularly shooting 8000, 9000, or more, foot-pound loads.

Once an upper threshhold is chosen, it is an easy task to design an appropriate case capacity. The "short Rigby" (2.65" Rigby basic) handles 7000 foot pounds easily in a half-inch bore. A full-length Rigby (Mbogo) or Weatherby (A2) is only necessary if one wants 8000 foot pounds. Be my guest. does someone want max loads on Jeffrey or Gibbs cases? Double be my guest!

Meanwhile, the 49 and 50 Accurate Reloading Nyatis are a GREAT hunting round. And they can be loaded down to hot-Lott levels (5800) or hot-416Rigby/Weath levels (6200/6500) if one wants. Commercially, the 505 Gibbs and 500 Jeffrey are only loaded between 6000 and 7000 foot pounds, should should someone want unused case capacity, "available over the counter."

The overkill is made the same as the 600 nitro. I think what the problem is is that it cost additional money to change the line over. However it should only be changing the last two dies from the Nitro to the overkill. If they don't want to make them there's no amount of requesting to remove them off the dock. Dieter and Bertram both make the same brass and could be talked into it. Anyone with a nine-inch lathe could also make the cases.

I think that the short repeat case or the short weatherby case would be the best cases for the actions. A full-length gibb case or Jeffrey's case are about 35 grains of water greater capacity or 50 for the gibs. Overkill case would certainly be the intermediate between the BMG and the full size Rigby casetr

Don't forget the pistol round!
Squish down some 500 S&W pills. The "490 J.S."
How hard would it be to make any 450 head stamp into a 490? Not hard is my guess. 490 Rigby? 490 NE?

When the project first started, I designed two bullets for it, an HV soft and an FN solid. With the project revived, I dusted off the programs again. The GSC HV weighs 551gr and the FN weighs 630gr.

They seem a bit heavy. The .510 has a 450 gn HV. A 630 gn FN solid would seem to be a typo.

More headstamp alterations...
A little tweaking and dremmeling and stamp altering to get;
416 Rigby to 496 Rigby?
408 Chey-Tac to 498 Chey-Tac?
50 BMG to 490 BMG?

416Tanzan, the 510 has a slow twist compared to the 1:12" of the 498. The 50BMG with its 1:15" twist will gyroscopically stabilize bullets as heavy as 800gr. Both the GSC 551gr HV and 630gr FN for the 498 will not do well at extended distances but, that is not the purpose of the rifle.

thanks guys -- I need to look at the cyrus rounds - and see what is what with those .. those might work out nice as a 49

Someone should list the "family" of cartridges if they list the paperwork. Forexample, the 500 AccRel, 500 AccRel Nyati, the 500 Mbogo, the 500 A-square, 500 Wells, and even the 500 Bateleur should all be listed in one simple document describing the calibers and the general purpose/description, cartridge cases of "...xxx..." dimensions that shoot a projectile of "...xxx..." weight in a rifled tube/barrel for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. and self-defense. It is silly to have every cartridge go through unique paperwork because of a different shoulder angle, neck length or freebore or length, etc.

While speaking of cartridge families, it would be nice to have all of the "50" caliber Rigby-based wildcats make a group order with Quality Cartridge.

I recently corresponded with Quality Cartridge and they need about 1500 more cases ordered in the "same family" before the next run of 500 Accurate Reloading. I would assume that a 498 AccRel, 500 AccRel, and 500 Mbogo, (maybe even the Bateleur ), would all qualify.

Is there anyone there stateside that could help organize service? The 500 Rigby-based cartridges are simly too good to be orphaned rather than collectively promoted.

Jeff, keep em coming.

Barrel and reamer are for sure officially ordered. Chamber and sizer reamers.

First will be the 490 accrel. .375 throat

And now for something completely different.
No Ford or Chevy for El Jeffe. He makes his own.