RIP- You should call BATF and get their take, but my understanding is that as long as THEY still consider .510 groove bullets to be Ok within the .50 legislation, then your ok with the .500 MBOGO as is Jeffe with the .500AR or my .510/.600Ok. Just realize thats BATF's current interpretation and it could change, particularily given the current administration. Technically, this is a very grey call that could easily be legitamately reversed and its already led S&W for example to take no chances with the .500S&W. Personally, I'd either have my paperwork ready to go or make a .498 MBOGO. One thing I do know, is that whatever legislation is passed, I will figure a clever way around it. To those who think this is just BS and unlikely to happen, I say YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU DONT KNOW! -Rob

Rob,
I'll do that.

this is an honest introduction of a new calier (49 or 490) and a new groove diameter+bore.

.498 is <.500 .. and there are plenty of actions trying to BAN anything bigger than .500 in many states

This is <.500 -- period ...

and if that is something you are concerned with, then this is the anwer

Rob
the ATF has been clear, +.500 BORE (the language is clear .. BORE) could be a DD .. BORE

But, Rodney sent me a cartload of local laws in cali outlawing +.500 .. not proposed, but current laws saying NO...

but, man, its confusing, that cali can outlaw a handgun (4.5" sw 500) but allow a 8" .. now that's just dumb!!

Michael,
thanks for the support .. this should be an interesting project.. your 500 Bm (various versions) could easily become .498!!!

Jeffe- we are saying the same thing about the .50 bore or .510 groove cartridges being legal at this time.
I do want to point out though that there are no effective laws in california outlawing the .500S&W because of bore size. Period! Really dont care a hoot what Rodney sent you. Hes way way outa his league with respect to understanding Ca gun laws!! I lived in CA for 25 years and still own property there and still have many contacts with the DOJ there. Dont confuse weapons not allowed to be sold due to lack of Ca gun specific DROP TEST verification with bore restrictions. I'm frankly getting tired of people propagating things they really dont understand. BTW I bought 3 .500S&Ws in Ca ,4.5",8" and a PC 14inch. I was at the same store in San Mateo two weeks ago and guess what .500S&Ws for sale. Maybe I imagined it.
Local laws are sometimes passed by wacko localities like Berkley. The state ultimately forces them to recind those local ordnances and they are legally unenforceable when they conflict with State Law. It Doesnt stop them from passing such ordnances however they get routinely challenged and recinded. STATE LAW SUPERCEDES LOCAL ORDNANCES. PERIOD! Thats how it works there. Otherwise it would be chaos and while some parts of the State are rabidly anti gun , fortunately common sense prevails for the most part. I hope this explains the situation properly!
Irregardless of how you get there, .50 caliber guns are in the cross hairs of the antigunners and its such a small segment of the shooting fraternity that NRA isnt going to fall on its sword for us. developing sub .50's is a good strategic idea IMHO. -Rob

Thanks Rob...my gun supplier is going out of business on 1 June and I've tried all the other trustable 'smiths and stores trying to aquire different pieces and parts...I was lucky with the VZ24 action...someone brought it in a couple of days before I stopped in and Chuck had it in the corner of his rack...first come, first served as there are a couple of others in town looking for specific actions and the VZ was top of the list. I doubt I can find another one in as good a condition, matching numbers on everything except the bolt...for $150 bucks... and finding a commercial 98 mauser magnum length action for chump change is like looking for hens teeth...they're available but about 200 million years old and stuck away in some rock.

Not to make any excuses, just getting good stuff here is tough and the ripoff artists in Medford can give anyone a lesson in skinning a man who can make a buffalo nickle squeeze one out...always a way tho' if a guy keeps lookin' and hustlin'...

Yeah...the VZ conversion was just a barrel swap and a bit of grinding here and there, a few jigs to be made and fitting the various pieces and parts...no work on the rails just blending and polishing on the feed ramp and the follower worked perfectly without change. Now IR wun o' them-thar Mowwwzar mekaniks.

Just finishing up the 45-120 rechamber on the NEF BC and doing the odd bits that always crop up... worked up two good loads a 720 gr at ~1800fs and a 430 gr load at ~2650fs...the 12GaFH stock and forend are coming along...need to TIG on the forend mount to keep it from getting wild and deciding to do a Star Trek saucer separation ...and add another pound of weight.

I will start on one of the Rigby cased iterations sometime this year, but haven't decided which one yet...the 500 Jeffery is looking very good as dies, bullets and cases and maybe loaded ammo all seem to be cropping up...probably as close to a 50 BMG as I'll ever get. Doubt I will do anything but a barrel job...time, money, body, desire etc., are all melting down like a snowball headed for *ell.

Boy this "50cal/50BMG/what's legal in Ca stuff" is getting lively...FORGET interpretation...you better go with how the CA DOJ and BATF tell you how the cow ate the cabbage and let THEIR lawyers interpret the law...one reason I quit Kalifornia and moved to Nevada, then Oregon...but NO ONE can get AWAY from their ignorance.

Luck on your projects...

Jeffe- Btw- don't ever stick a certified .500 plug guage in a .50 anything rifle. Its a gonna wobble a mite even half way down.!!!
Foobar pse lie down and let the .500 jeffery Idea go away. You be in for ISSUES as my daughter would say. Real Real bad idea unless you mod the action for a single stack mag and make one. M98's do fantastic .458 win mags. try doing that. You'll like it. -Rob

Rob
Lets agree that cali's codes are totally opaque to a non-cali-expert in that code, and we'll leave it at that.

the 49 caliber obviates any "thought" required from a public servant in understanding those codes

quote:

the 49 caliber obviates any "thought" required from a public servant in understanding those codes

Ain't that right...

Stupidity mixed with the power to jail you and ruin your life for months to the tune of thousands.

Boomy;..
HUH?
it SAYS 49 on the barrel and round... even a 3rd grade education knows 49 is less than 50...

Jeffe- Totally agree. 49 Kalibur. I like that name alot!!! it is. I also very much like the fact that bullets will MEASURE .498 so there is no possibility that Lawyers could successfully CONFUSE a jury that a given weapon or its ammunition are illegal. We as gun owners are in for a pitched battle and we need to make it as difficult as possible while still enjoying our hobbies. The .50 caliber was based on the existance of 1/2 inch, deep hole drills a century ago. With todays advancements we can have any caliber we desire. I'll gladly give up 0.012 inches of bullet diameter just to stick it to the politicians. Well Done!
For those who are interested, a .49/.600Ok should drive a 750gr borerider to 2700fps. Thats .50BMG territory out of a Montana PH action or a ubiquitous CZ550. assuming a 32 inch barrel.
If you live in Ca, New York, Mass, Illinois etc. you cant afford not to have a .49 Kalibur. If nothing happens at the federal or state level you still have a phenomenal long range rifle and cartridge you participated in building. You'll learn something in the process.-Rob

Hummmm...lying down will only allow me to think about "things" a little more...

Yes, the M98 makes a very nice 458 WM, "been there,done that" lots of times...I did check that out while I was deciding which cartridge to go with...but already built a 458 WM on a SMLE 2a receiver and it will even shoot 45-70 and 45-90 rounds just for kicks...AND feed the 458 WM from a slightly modified 303 Brit mag...single stack...albeit slightly offset...AND load 4 rounds in the mag with one up the snout...I posted the pictures somewhere...

I used a load right out of the 2006 Hodgden manual and consulted with Johan Loubser at Accurat Arms while doing load workup when I found what I thought was an interesting comparison between AA2230 and AA2460.

I've fired over 100 rounds of 400 and 500 gr bullets all within the safe pressure parameters of the SMLE 2A receiver and have settled on a 430 gr and 525 gr load that fits those parameters at near or equal to factory velocities.

I can fire 10 rounds of each of those loads, one case apiece, and the cases are stil going strong...I think I did my homework well...

You might tell your daughter that "issues" are nothing more than problems needing solutions and there are lots of ways to get where you want to go without necessarily going by fast car.

I also turned some AL stock into a "458 Rigby" cartridge including bullet nose shape and used them to "almost" get a 308 mag to feed properly, but didn't want to muck up that magazine as they are expensive and hard to find so I didn't push it...I was going for a shortened "458 Rigby" max COAL 3.0" to get the velocity up and keep the pressures down...I found out the reloading dies would have cost as much as the whole project...and the gain wasn't worth the cost...besides it took 15% more powder just to attain standard 458 WM velocities so where's the gain??? A definite case of too much is too much.

I just ordered a box of Hornady 416 Rigby brass to start the "50cal" process...I have no doubt I can get where I want to go under my own steam, but I ALWAYS appreciate any and all input from other, more experienced individuals...it usually shortens the experimental building or developmental processes time...and I don't mind giving up my limited actual experiences, whether they are of any value or not to some, they have some value to others and is immaterial to me...everyone of us has had mentors of some kind over the years no matter where we stand at the present...we owe it to them to pass along some of the knowledge.

I've already spent some time crunching numbers for the several 50cal cartridges, from the 500 Whisper to the 500 Jeffery and all in between...it is just a matter of deciding which is most feasible "for MY purposes and MY pleasure", which action to use, what pressures to run...etc...I'm not going for the biggest and baddest...just a 50 cal rifle, preferably a bolt action but not discounting a stub barreled NEF...nothing wrong with a 50-140 using modern smokeless powders in the NEF, now is there...???...while it has slightly more case capacity than the 500 Jeff, and it is limited in pressures, the "Load Disk V5" numbers tell a very nice story. The 500 Van Horn is about equal in capacity to the 45-120 and should work well in a M98, Ruger, Rem etc...lots of ways to go...Besides if I want something big and bad and T-Rex is climbing the fence, all I have to do is reach over and grab the 12GaFH...Right???

As I said..."Lots of ways to get there other than by fast car"...

But the 490 AccRel still is very high on the "todo" list, like you said...what's 0.012" between friends and I will be following it closely...I've been wildcatting for many years but nowadays I go for something not so "on the really wildside" if possible.

An NEF stub barrel 490 AR...now that would be a "one off" definitely...Eh?

Luck on your projects.

In addition too contributing to a 490 project, someone in a danger zone state, might give though to building/buy the 500/550/577/585 dream gun NOW while it is legal.

Should some kind of ban spread, it would most likely grandfather in the existing .500 cal guns. That was the case with hi capacity magazines and it pretty typical of gun bans.

Even more so for 50 BMG the only actual banned item, all the more reason to buy one right now! Enjoy it now, shoot it and hope for a grandfather deal. Worse case, dump it or rechamber it later.

This kinda reminds me about the whole thing in India banning the 450 that gave rise to the 470
http://huntnetwork.net/modules...rican%20Classics.pdf

It is interesting how the original target of the anti-gunners was the .50BMG, because of its extensive military use and minimal sporting value) and how it seems to have expanded to everything .50 caliber including cartridges with nearly no military value. You can thank the .408 Chey TAC folks for screwing up that argument for us! I suspect that while we will see many Ca like bans on intra-state sales of .50 or larger calibers, that at the federal level there will be efforts to classify them as NFA weapons requiring tax stamps, licensing, registration and exhaustive background checks. How hard NRA and state level sportsman groups fight this will be interesting to participate in and watch.
Just remember, as it stands right now if its over .500 it either has to be grandfathered as a legitimate sporting cartridge or registered and approved as one. -Rob

Rob... Excelent example of the tip of the wedge politics and strategy of the anti gunners. All new gun laws are an attempt to take them away completely. There are few "reasonable" gun laws that are just that but 99.9% are inroads to gun confescation and the practical criminalizing of the 2nd amendment. Anti gunners are irrational and they have misplaced their feelings on guns themselves. Idiots. They never adress the issue... just their agenda. Should we have a machete ban? How many millions died to the machete?

Personally, I have become a GUN MISSONARY. Wherever I go, I try and get people particularily women to learn to shoot guns. I train them in safety and in basic combat use of a handgun at my expense. In 2008 I trained 12 people, 10 of whom are now GUN Fanatics! 12 new NRA members and 12 people who can now draw and fire a handgun at 7 yrds inside 2.5 seconds and score qualifying hits. I'm good for under 1 second usually which is scary for an old guy like me. But then again I practice everyday! My goal this year is 20 new believers and I'm doing great. I actually really like training folks either with rifles or handguns and I get to expound my views and back them up. I believe that by us gaining more converts that the anti-gunners lies will be exposed for what they really are. An additional benefit is I have more friends to go to the range with now than before.

LOL "Saint Rob"
Patron saint of the Gun innitiation.

You go Rob!
We need 10,000 more like you.

A lesson I learned long ago is if people see you are having fun with something well they want to go along with you. I used to call it Leadership 101!Guns are fun as well as being very very useful tools. Too many people are brainwashed by their families and friends into thinking guns are terrible dangerous things. thats particularily true in san francisco and its environs. You show them the truth,teach em to be safe they have fun and wallah, they become converts. Yup if each of use converts just a few people each year we will beat the anti-gunners. If we stay complacent well we will lose big time. Its like shooting Big Bores you just find somebody to teach you the basics and you dont get hurt and sometimes surprise yourself with what you can do,. Once they are hooked, then guns are like Lays potato chips you cant just have one.
I start em with self protection and then move em to rifles( up to .416 Rigby's for those who are interested in hunting. Works every time and I have more friends now with the same interests than ever before.
BTW over the years I've done the same thing here on AR. Gotten lots of folks interested in ultra Big-Bores and showed them that an average guy can build and shoot nearly anything. Most of what i've learned was by actually building the guns myself. I learned what works and what doesnt mostly be doing. Lotsa stuff disnt work and I learned from my mistakes. Once I had the basics then I started pushing the envelope. However, I've always made it a point to share my knowledge to those who want to listen. unfortunately, many don't! Thats why I'm pushing the 12gaFh. Its the biggest bang for the buck there is and no legal issues! However you guys need to get off your butts, lay out some money and join in on the fun! Whether you make a 12GaFh ( look at Foobar, he's doing alot himself and having a ball) or a .49 Kalibur, isnt the issue. You need hands on experience. The 12GaFh with a NEF and all the reloading stuff is under $1500. Thats a 8000ft-lb gun. What you learn from doing it is priceless.-Rob

Maybe in 6 mo I can think of another project.
The 12 Bore frankenstein resurrection is at the top of my list. Sheer brilliance.

My first Double Rifle might have to be a "Shotgun"

Boomstick- well then watch the 12GaFh thread as in a few days I'll post my progress on the double rifle.-Rob

A few questions on the use of the Rigby case, the 490 AccRel or other 50 cal case iterations and different receivers...

First: Any problem with turning down the Rigby case rim to 0.532 or 0.555 size so it can be used in an unaltered magnum or Rum bolt head???

Second: I'm cheap(read broke-azz poor) and have several rifle/receivers I could do a simple??? swap barrel jobby on...Ruger tang M77 limits COAL to 3.25" and is a 416 Taylor right now...Savage 110 LA, 375 H&H now 3.60" max COAL, Rem 700 338-06 now, 3.60 Max COAL, NEF SB2 USH could be stub barreled.

By cutting down the Rigby rim I would eliminate the large cut on the bolt face mods and keep what cut is needed to a minimum, I have both Savage WSM and Mag bolt heads, the Ruger is 0.532" now, I'm not sure I want to mess up the Rem bolt and would have to buy a new 0.532" or 0.555" size bolt...

Am I right that the cartridge rim cut WON'T be a problem in the pressure department???

The major problems with using a Rigby case are the OAL and body diameter...with feeding and mag capacity and receiver size...

Using the modified 2.5" AOL case eliminates the OAL problem...so the only other problems are getting the rail shape and mag boxes to handle the OD of the case capacity wise, and also hold and feed the cartridge...

Is this correct???

So which receivers could/would you use for this conversion...Ruger, Rem or Savage, or would any one of them suffice??? (I don't need any help with the NEF...I would go with a stub barrel 50-140 and be done with it or get with the 490 AccRel program if the barrel came chambered case head 0.015-0.020" below barrel face so I would have some extra for headspacing.)

The steel through bolt support rod is now setting up in the 12GaFH thumbhole stock, tomorrow I will start on the forend fitting, weighting and bedding and should have that done in a week or so, then I can get back to load workups.

Thanks all

Luck on your projects.

Foobar,
You will need to get the Lapua bolthead for the savage .. turning them done to that sever of a rebate is going to result in both case losses and hassles.

Turning a boltface is usually failry cheap, EXCEPT on a ruger/rem pushfeed/plunger.. just don't do that !

IN fact, you chould just do the mods the guys are doing for the lapua, bolthead and magbox, and it should all run together.

Having a barrel deep chambered is a minor minor thing.. just as for it from McGowen, we we get there..

A savage, with a laupa bolthead, and even a 300win magbox, ought to kick tail for a big ole boomer! get a choate stock, a heavy barrel, and some LEAD

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
RIP- You should call BATF and get their take, but my understanding is that as long as THEY still consider .510 groove bullets to be Ok within the .50 legislation, then your ok with the .500 MBOGO as is Jeffe with the .500AR or my .510/.600Ok. Just realize thats BATF's current interpretation and it could change, particularily given the current administration. Technically, this is a very grey call that could easily be legitamately reversed and its already led S&W for example to take no chances with the .500S&W. Personally, I'd either have my paperwork ready to go or make a .498 MBOGO. One thing I do know, is that whatever legislation is passed, I will figure a clever way around it. To those who think this is just BS and unlikely to happen, I say YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU DONT KNOW! -Rob

Hi Rob-

I might be interested in your .510/.600Ok... Do you think AHR can be persuaded in making one on a GMA action?

Ulrik

Buffalo- Yes I'm sure AHR would be happy to build you one. I'd still do the .49 Kalibur myself given the way things are going. I'll be happy to give them my design. They will need a reamer as mine is only a home made 1/2 reamer. However, Its still just a barrel swap and rechamber once you have a functioning gun should the laws change.-Rob

49ers
Perfect for California...
Just wish the Joe Montana, Jerry Rice combo was still intact

I just verified
covering tooling as well, Contoured, crowned, deep chambered CM barrels are $200 per.

Guys,
rob and I are in.. need 8 more!
jeffe

Thanks Jeffe...I didn't know Savage had a Lapua bolt head...I will have to check that out and see how the ejection is handled...I installed the old 375 H&H longer mag box on one LA receiver, plus the receiver doesn't have the rear ejector like the WSW version...I haven't seen or read of how the Savage LA was modified for the Lapua case...need to do some surfing...I had to modify the laminated stock with added support/recoil system and add weight...AND a heavy barrel rifle weighs just over 10 lbs loaded...with brake, 300 gr 375 H&H loads are fairly pleasant to shoot.

I wouldn't do a Rem bolthead past 532 so would fit a bolt for the required bolthead size...I read someone somewhere has plunger/sako style bolts for fitting around $125...have to find that again also.

Looks like I'm down to a bolt or bolt head and a swap in barrel...maybe...

Thanks again

Luck on your projects.

Things are looking a little rosier...I pulled the bolts from the Ruger, the Rem, the Sav and the VZ24 and dug out the WSM bolt head also...a little work with a carbide cutter will take any one of them out the approx 0.045" to handle the Rigby rim...and still leave about a 0.050" ring of steel

The 1.055" barrel shank OD will leave the chamber wall thickness close to 0.230" under the threads which certainly should be plenty of strength for the cartridge pressure.

I found a couple of forums with information on converting the Sav LA to 338 Lapua Magnum which gave a URL to a 'smith that does the Savage conversion or will make the Savage bolt head...

I have emails out to those smiths concerned with the conversions or have pieces and parts...

The concensus was the Savage LA was the better platform because of the 20 tpi vs the Rem 16 tpi and the ease of headspacing or barrel swapping...although the headspace thing is really moot...I have a couple of "nutty" Ruger and Rems...

So I think I can actually afford to get this project up and running...now all I have to do is decide whether to go with the 500 AR or the 490 AR... ...not being a Kalifornicator and the 50 cal bug up my keester I think the 500 AR will do...

Now...dig deep...

Luck on your projects.

El Jeffe...
You offer to pay for the tooling is quite generous. Since the 49er is such a good idea and I DO live in Kaleeforneea (for now till Texas becomes sovereign again)I would like one of these barrels for my future 500 KILL ALL project. Liberal theocracy of Caleeforneea can kiss my 49er ass!!!

Foobar --
Need a barrel?
Boomie, bother, get out of kalisfornistan

FOOBAR- A little trick for opening boltfaces. Get a dremel tool extension holder kit and mount the tool(about 3/8 wide and 3"long on your toolpost. Check that its parallel and wont move but doesnt bind the rotation. Use a small high speed carbide cutter that Dremel sells. Mount your bolt in the lathe chuck and make sure its running true. At 100 RPM advance that little carbide cutter going 10,000rpm into the inside of your boltface. Check with the casehead for enough clearance. Takes minutes and very hard to take too much off.
BTW where is Macifej in this project? He lives in Kalifornia too.-Rob

Thanks Rob...I have an 1/4" air grinder hafazz setup that works fairly well, but no carbide bits...I will order some, I've done a couple projects that would have worked better with the dremel grinder, plus sometimes the ground finish would have been better for the final coating...and I keep thinking of mounting the dremel...the variable speed makes things nice.

I'm no Kalifornicator...been shed of that state for since 1979...and don't go there other than every three years or so to visit Mother.

Mother nature and the weather keep getting in the way of starting the forend bedding...I'm taking the barrel to town today to have the forend mount Tig'ed up and the butt stock is ready for final sanding...my house is messy enough inside without adding sanding dust...good thing I don't have a wife to settle up with.

Luck on your project.

I just got a reply from Sharp Shooter Supply, a recognised Savage expert and where you can find all the good pieces and parts for Savage rifles...He said the Savage wasn't engineered for the Lapua size cartridge and he wouldn't do this conversion...I don't doubt his word or experience, but I would like some others thoughts on this subject.

Anyone out there do or consider and research doing a 500 AR, 500 Jeffrey or other Rigby case converson to a Savage LA...or have any comments on the subject???

Rob, Jeffeosso, Macifej, ED...do any of you see any problem areas???


I have no doubt about the strength of the action to handle the pressure, there is plenty of meat around the case in the chamber and receiver walls, and the bolt shouldn't have any problem with the 50-60 KPSI I plan on running even with the larger case head. I haven't made any dummy cartridges yet, to see how they feed or how they will fit in the magnum box magazine...so I'm still playing in limbo here.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Thanks.

My 12GaFH barrel has been welded and ready to pick up plus I will siver solder on an additional mount...just in case...I'm getting there one small step at a time.

Luck on your projects.

Foobar- Ed has massaged a Savage 210 to take the intermediate form of the 12GaFH 40Kpsi version. Thats around 13000 ft-lbs so there is no doubt it can take a Lapua. Of course Ed modified that action severely! Ramp, Mag box and feeding will be your biggest challenges and you may have to mod your existing one or fabricate a new one., but we can talk you through those proceedures. I would not use the normal Savage locking ring to set your headspace, but face and thread the barrel like a Rem700 and headspace like you normally do with your reamer and guages. The action itself "may" need the rear action ring milled out for ejection clearance). This amount of work usually totally freaks out many gunsmiths who wont even attemot it for various reasons. I've only worked with a few Savage LA's and never made anything bigger than a .300 win mag on one so others may have better info.-Rob

Thanks... Rob...I don't like getting information without explainations expecially since Savage once produced the 10.57 Meteor Lazzaroni, so close to the 416 Rigby they could be considered "almost equal"...in size and ballistics...we're talking only enough difference so one won't chamber in the other...good safety precaution.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Savage didn't "engineer" the 110 action to handle the Lapua/Rigby cartridge case and the 500 AR being a shortened version of it...I can see not going to the 500 Jeffrey now that I've studied it a little more...that case is big enough to cause some concerns and needs but even the Jeffrey's might be usable using a COAL of 3.60" and an older 375 H&H chambered/Lazzaroni 116 receiver...not that I would try it, the Savage not being a DGR rifle...who would want one???? and the production didn't last very long...I found one SAvage 10.57 Lazzaroni for sale on line and it was a pricey little devil!!!!

Got the 12GaFH barrel back from the welder...not too bad a job...NOT up to my standards in the old days... ...but adequate and usable...and can't beat the 20 dollar price tag. I designed the additional lug copy and the way to make it, in my mind, on the way to town...

Time to rip apart the other 110 LA and start taking measurements and order another mag bolt head plus some 510 bullets.

Luck on your endeavors...

Jeffe- Sure doesnt look like we are getting many takers!-Rob

This thread will get busy once Obama starts to cowtow to the rabbid anti 2A'ers...

Sure not a lot of comments on using the Savage LA...I only found a few questions on Long Range Hunting pertaining to using the Rigby or larger cases...I think the Savage LA with the long mag mods could go to 500 Jeffrey without any sweat...but I can't find anyone who has attempted it...guess I might be the first?????...there always has to be a sacrificial goat doesn't there.


Anyone have 3-4 used up Rigby cases they could give/sell me...cheap including shipping???? ...I need them for making dummies to check feeding and mag capacity on the Sav LA...I ordered a box from Buffalo Arms(on backorder and NO lead time) and NO ONE has Hornady 416 Rigby brass that I can find...all backordered...and I'm WAY TOO cheap to pay 4 bucks a pop for Norma...I guess I will have to turn some out of ALUM...3 used up Jeffrey cases would be appreciated also... Thanks.

The Nil acceptance rating is probably indicative of the truely small amount of large bore shooters in the USA...or not enough advertising...and certainly not many shooters coming up from the younger ranks...

One way to get the word out is to get this information onto other Big Bore forums...or at least put a pointer to AR in them.

Plus the perception of "aminal rights" being taught in every school from kindergarden on up...Bambi-itis has gripped the worlds leaders, youth and the rest too boot...what we are experiencing with this "non-interest" in big bores is just the tip of the iceberg...makes me more than a little...

I think the only way this will change is to have another total nasty...getting rid of a large percentage of the worlds population and upsetting the greed and avarice of the world's economy will certainly put the emphasis back on eating or being eaten...not to get all strange about it...plus actually saving the planet for the survivors. We humans are TRULY the "most dangerous game".

Looking around at/on various other gun related forums you'll find nary a word...not even very much about the 12GaFH on rifled shotgun threads and those that do have a blurb or two are dominated by people without a clue and not enough sense to search or research...just blowing smoke.

The "Golden Age of Wildcatting" has passed even though today we have the machinery to produce wildcats relatively cheap and fast and to easily calculate and check the probable ballistice before spending the money. Definitely a good/bad scenario.

Plus...a lot of it is a reflection of the economy...no one spends money on "luxuries" when they are loosing their homes, cars and having a hard time getting fed...plus you can't imagine the pressures coming from spoiled kids unless you have some...for all the "usual treats".

If we don't get together to solve the problems, we will certainly be sunk together by them...

Just had one MAJOR FU...the forend on the 12GaFH glued itself to the barrel...first time in 30 odd years of bedding...it's in the freezer right now...used JB weld...first time for that also since I started using it way back...wonder if this is something telling me something....

Apologize for the soap box...(well maybe not ).

Luck on your projects.

just in from camping most of the week ...
foobar, the golden age of wilcatting gone?
Hardly, man..
the 470mbogo, 550 magnum, 550 express, 550 flanged, 600 OK, 12ga FH, the legitimaztion of the lott and the 450 rigby,Michael's BM rounds and even my humle work on the ARs .. dude, there's more wildcating GETTING DONE and then chrono'ed and then info shared nowadays than ever before.. legit, real, attainable wildcatting ..


anyway - the 49 caliber is going to happen, sooner or later .. just smart to be on the sooner part, if you ask me.
jeffe