The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .585 AHRGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I was wondering how many here besides CCMDoc's dad have a .585 AHR. For reasons that I can't really explain, except for the fact that the .585 can be built somewhat lighter than a .600 OK, my preference has always been for the .585 over the 600. If you have one, how do you like it and what weight did you select? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | ||
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Dave, Check your PM and your email. paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Dave, I though the 585HE was the best solution to a bolt 577. I dont know where Ed is at with brass. Ed has loaded the 3 1/4 inch case over the Trex or a shorter 3" chamber might be better (like the 577 BME but with better taper) Can be staggered in the mag with same capacity as the 505Gibbs. No rebate. Very nice solution. Same bolt face as gibbs. I would think worth consideration but again, depends on the brass. I agree, The 750 grain bullet at 577NE velocity should be a lot more manageable that 600 pushing 900 grainers at usable speeds in a lighter gun. I'd trust the recoil calculator numbers more than anecdotal comments by advocates of either round. | |||
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Wayne can better fill you in than I, but I think the 585 is being phased out in favor of the 600 OK. You can shoot 750 grainers in the 600 if you don't need the bullet weight of the 900. The calibers are kind of redundant. | |||
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The .585-.600ok was the first wildcat we built on the .600ok case. It was built to beat the T-Rex with 750gr bullets of which I had a ton. Ed Plummer of AHR asked if he could commercialize it and I told him to go right ahead. It works fine, but most prefer the .600ok.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffer- I've had him on "Ignore" just about since he first appeared. Seems like most here have figured him out! Just another loser.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Dynamic duo. Both angered if anyone questions their opinions. Rob should have told me when I joined the forum - that criticism of the 600ok was forbidden. I had no idea. No idea- the OK pos was a sacred design. Imagine 577 TREX is under powered! Who would have known? And now it turns out Jeff does not like the "rebate" on the 495A2. Go figure. Because never a peep from him on the OK rebate. My opinion on the 600 ok, given the original goal for cz550 (505 bolt face), would have been much better done as a non-rebated 585. With staggered feed just like the 505. And NO MUZZLE BRAKE, NO REBATE, NO SINGLE STACK FEED! Name calling and arrogance. I think people see through this. As for Jeff-e-#$@! I have no need to answer him regarding any of my business. What a JERK! My hunting, shooting, reloading is none of his business. This is a common tactic of his. If he cannot win the argument on logic then go on a person attack. You want to ignore me, than be a man of your word and ignore. Now we have a 577 based on the OK, talk about building on a shit (rebated) foundation! And why? To be bigger than the TREX. | |||
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Dave I don't have one, can't figure to get it in a Winchester of course. But Doc sent me a sample of both the 600 OK and the 585 both with CEB BBW #13s---and WOW, I am somewhat taken with the 585 it looks great! If I could stuff that in a Winchester M70 I would have myself one of those! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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dynamic vigor, intensity, action, progress. Yep. Good words to describe those that DO! No question of opinion was raised to challenge. unfounded mouthing off is unwelcome. You've never reloaded a single big bore round. You have zero experience in the matter. Why should you be taken seriously ? or experience not underpowered, tyro, requires extreme and past the cutting edge gunsmithing, including welding on the actin to make itwork. But, you have zero concept of what that means, due to the nature of your experience and since you have next to nIl experience or, it now seems, reading comprehension... I described rebate as among the PERCEIVED short comings of the round. Why the quotes around rebate there? Anyone with a piece of appropriate brass and caliper can self verify. Oh, let me guess, you don't have one or the other at your disposal? I did, and explained it to you, as you are greener than 3 week old pea soup more or less, the might be the first time you are correct,ish. You have no clue if I picked up the phone and called rob. Or sat with him around a campfire while hunting and discussed it. These are also likely happenstance with us. And a man with experience would accept the designers objectives. step 1 buy a reloading press that can handle big bores. Step 2, plunk down about 1500 bucks for the steel required toprove your opinion, 3 execute and prove it. There you go step right and do that then. Put your money where your mouth is, and show us how to Do it. Unless of course, as we have seen prior with you, that you are all mouth, o action. Start reloading big bores yet? For example you know, I was going to call you out on that. see what I mean? Actually, when you you question another man's ethics and experience, you do me? Guilty, irrelevant , but guilty. What was this you just posted about name calling? Only when you attempt to bluster through forcing your inexperienced opinion as fact, so much so that you blather on about how another man should have spent his money and time to developed something you wanted. Your utter lack of experience is glaring when a person questions the obvious, it is polite to ask what is their basis. In your case, since you have NO big bore reloading experience, pointing that out does seem to annoy you. That I have to point it out is, itself, annoyingt Because the other person doesnt have the basis to understand the discussion, and is entirely resistant to learning, I ask about is experience you meant to state personal, rather than person. That is an ad homme assault. Means attacking the person, not the argument. When you attack, fb,others, on basis of their work and experience, pointing out YOUR credentials is entirely appropriate. That you don't like isn't relevant. Or is it ad homme. Implying that one is a thief, that he makes change in the collection plate, or complaining that his feet stink may be ad homme attacks, and calling someone names (as you have done repeatedly in this post) certainly is. hold on... If your relevant experience in the matters you so passionately blather on about, in ignorance, isn't y business, then where do you get ordering me about? Hypocrite. tisk tisk. Name calling. it must really make you sad, that you have zero basis for this judgement, and yet no one takes your opinion seriously
Oh, btw, efbie, the round you describe as a good one? Basically that's the 585 van horn. It's already done, son. The 585 ahr is larger, and can do more things better. But I don't expect you to be bothered with all the details about loading. Obviously if you haven't done it, it must be easy. That's a dilbert ism opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I assume, I am no longer on your ignore list. I am honored. Was I ever? | |||
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I just love the looks of the 585! Especially with those CEB #13s. The 600OK is mighty, but I am smitten with 585!  http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Nice photo. I like the copper bullets too. Any chance, you could post the 585HE next to the 585AHR and we can then compare features and performance? The 585HE works in the CZ550 staggered magazine just like the Gibbs. The HE can also be done in a 3" version for those who dont need(?want) Trex levels (or muzzle brakes, or big time rebated rims). Sadly though, this (HE and BME)idea seem not to be catching on. The 585AHR round has brass available. That a game changer. And AHR offers a great product. But why has it gone this way? I struggle to make sense of it. | |||
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4bore Ed sent some 585 samples to see if they might fit in a Winchester. We are looking into a 585 version of something on a Winchester now. I can't remember the size exactly, but I can take some photos of that later for sure. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Why not cut and paste and put the pic together yourself. One quick google gets this photo (click on it to enlarge), plenty of other photos of all the cases on AR. http://www.custombrassandbulle...om/585be600ov58.html . | |||
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Guys, I sure didn't mean to start a fight here. I was just wondering if anyone else had a .585. Wayne came through my town last year on his way to Dallas. After breakfast, we made a short trip on a freezing day out to our local range and my friend and I got to shoot one of his .600 OKs. I was VERY surprised at the lightness of the recoil. Perhaps we used cartridges that were not loaded to the max. He gave me one of the cartridges. It is indeed an awesome round and a great alternative for a guy who can't afford or does not want to deal with the weight of a 600 NE double gun. Biebs is right. I think Wayne is going to let the 585 go in favor of the 600 but he told me that he does have enough brass for one more 585. To be honest, I don't know why I am even thinking about this. I have a 500 Jeffery and Wayne built me the most beautiful 450 Dakota that you have ever seen but a 585 or 600, now that's a gun huh? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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500N its no use trying to argue with a prat just ignore...But as far as the 600 ok great round it opened the doors for alot of guys who wanted a 600 double but couldnt afford it. | |||
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Dave, Because "need" has nothing to do with "want" The reason you "want" one is because it is fun to have, fun to look at, fun to show others, fun to shoot and fun to hunt with.  Hope you got what I sent via email - a real eye opener  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Over the years I've had my share of experience dealing with CLOWNS like FourBore. Now known as "DUMB-BORE". He's not smart enough nor does he have the EXPERIENCE to waste my time on. Arguing with him is like wrestling with a PIG. He likes it and you get tired! WoW Jeffe that Data Dump would have "embarassed" any normal person. But I doubt it will have any effect on "Dumb-BORE". CCMDOc- No worries and a good post. Ignore Dumb-Bore his bleetings are worthless and we could not care less anyway. -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Express_Rifles
500 is not arguing. I think he was making a constructive suggestion. but you sir are one of the lowest on this forum. More name calling. Either unable or unwilling to develop an idea beyond one line quips. When challenged in the thread on 458WM/Lott, you had nothing constructive to say - just one liners. When I called you on it and asked you too articulate your position you got ugly. Now, here you are again, one line stupid. | |||
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If :anyone is stupid sir its the man looking back at in the mirror.You offer nothing but the slop of second hand knowledge and opinion of others and pass them along as fact you are a joke and didnt even deserve a reply in the winchester/lott arguement..Ive said it once and ill say it again PRAT..  Fourbore | |||
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Yes, exactly and I offered an alternative 585 for discussion. THis is normal for AR right? That is not Robs design and note how it turned ugly fast. Now, Daves thread is hijacked with a lot of garbage and personal name calling. Clowns and Bozo! Robs, No/Clown pic under his name says it all. Now, I can go away and make those with a product and services to promote happy. Really I am not trying to kill anyone business. I might go, I might not. If I do and others like me who dare question the status quo leave then this becomes a smaller forum with same old ideas circulating around and around. | |||
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I have a few questions, I am thinking about putting together a 600 OK, What action should I use? Where can I find reloading data? what gunsmith should I have do the work? This will be a toy for me to play with so I have to keep the cost down or the wife will use it on me! | |||
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I would start by speaking with Wayne (Bitterroot here) at AHR. He has built quite a few on both CZ and GMA actions and at least one one a MRC PH action. AHR Website As far as reloading data, if you go to the "Find" button and click "Advanced Search" and search for "600OK" and "powder" in the "contains all these words" section, you'll find lots of reloading data. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Thank you, I found a used cz 416 rigby at a good price will that action work or will I need to find one for a 505. | |||
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With all due respect Rob - it cant..! The 577 Tyrannosur have more casecapacity than either the 600 OK and the 585 AHR. My Horneber brass have 220 - 225 grs H2O capacity depending on the lott of brass (once fired brass and sized..) But in practical life there will be no difference between the TRex and the 585 AHR I`m sure.. If I had to do it over again today, I would have preferred the 600 OK over the Trex because of the bigger bulletdiameter and -weight. But I still think difference is marginal cause my 577 works just perfect..  Cheers Ulrik | |||
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Send it to AHR, and they will do it up right. The 600 OK, and 585 AHR are designed to be the monsters that fit into a cz550, right at the final eedge of it. Design constraints being what they are, the 600OK nice fits right into a cz action, and feeds very will, single stack.. no muss no fuss.. designed by experts, on might say .. no mickey mouse about it opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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thanks I just called the shop where the CZ is and they are going to hold it for me until I can get thier on fri. This should be fun! | |||
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That would be me.. LOL. In addition, having a .600 that you can put a break on helps with the weight issue.460 wby shooter, as Jeff said, the .600 OK will work in a CZ action but it works better in a Granite Mountain action like the one that CCMDoc built but the Granite Mountain will be a bunch more expensive. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Buffalo- The case capacity of the T-Rex and 585-.600OK is vitually the same, although using the Horneber brass I had made, I measured 227g of water capacity. The 585-.600Ok was also operated at 65Kpsi vs top loads in the T-Rex of about 55KPsi. Didn't trust those 1917 Enfields built by A2 to handle much more than that! I did get 2650-2700fps out of it before I lost interest with 750 gr bullets. That beat the top loads in Any shot you want, by a fair margin. I think your T-Rex version with the shoulder moved forward could probably match it. The issue with the T-Rex has always been Cartridge availability and actions big enough to handle it. 460 wby shooter.- The CZ550 action works great but you really need a single stack mag box. The GMA holds more rounds but is a very pricey way to go. I have .600OK's on both actions and don't find too much difference. Yes talk to wayne at AHR and he will set you up right!-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Yes, I was, the "constructive suggestion" was for you to get off your ass and do it yourself instead of asking everyone to do it for you. After all, the link I posted was from ONE Google search. All the case are out there, just look for them and put them together yourself. And all the load, capacity data is out there, put together an Excel spreadsheet and do the comparison and maybe even post it up here for all to see with a pretty picture of the cartridge at the top of each column of data. ie - Add something to the discussion instead of always sucking info out and asking for more info. It's a 2 ways street. OK, I understand that not everyone has multiple big bores and Double's like me and a few others but we or mates (ie ShortandFat who is building a 600) have at least got one or 2 and have been through the trials and tribulations of trying things, loading, testing in the field. That is why somethings don't need to be rehashed continuously - ie rebated rims - we know they are not the most desirable and it CAN be a problem, especially if some slack arse gunsmith built the gun but we don't need to rehash it over and over again as seems to occur in some places. Rant over. Now I've got that off my chest, Have a nice day  . | |||
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Okay guys, thanks for all your help. I will chat with Wayne if I decide to proceed. Somehow the thread seems to have gone awry. Perhaps it would be better if we just let it fade away. Good luck and good hunting to all of you. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Ohhh my another one. Look, I dont have means of posting photos, or doctoring up 2 to make a good sidexside composite view. My idea was to spur a discussion comparing the two. You dont need all the oK uglyness for a 577. For a 600, I see the reason. If its just me speaking, then it will be nothing but crap back from the duo. Probably, nobody cares. If they did, they would have spoke up by now. I know there are enough satisifed 600oK owners. I dont like it, fine. Is that a sin? For a bolt 600, I dont see any competition. A 600 and 585 are not the same. I do know exactly what 585HE looks like. I have followed and read several of Ed's threads back when I joined the forum. I was very impressed with that excellent design. And I saw the photos. I dont need to "suck" any more info out of AR. As for 577BME concept, one minor flaw another great idea. Fully digested. Back when, I was surprised to see the 600oK and my first impression was negative. I expressed that and man was I in a world of crap fast. I felt like I went to Rome and spit on the Pope. Really bad. I did get some comment about being new and told of death threats in earlier times. I have no idea! I dont even care. Some other people and ideas I hope. Fast forward, I mistakenly though it might be interesting to compare and contrast the HE vs the AHR. Now, that conversation is apparently taboo on this forum. Atleast if it involves any critical comments against the oK or any derivative. There are quite a few options in 577. I hope if the topic comes up in the future, we can have some open discussion. Without name calling or certain bozos taking it personal. Not today,... yes please let this die. Dave, best of luck on whatever ultra big bore you choose. When you talk to Wayne ask how many down with each 585 option. Wayne can build either, I know I asked him. My opinion: 3 or 4 down beats 2 any day. | |||
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Dave, Don't let the divergent paths this thread has taken get you down. It was a reasonable quesiton with some good information posted by a number of good folk. Hope you got the video. Stay well and good luck, Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Dave- It is a good post and if you need any help send me a PM and I'll do what I can to help you! Unfortunately, DUMB-BORE! feels compelled to continue to prove to all that he's a ignorant Dumbass, as if he hasn't erased all doubt. Dumb-Bore, you're on IGNORE but I can see your dribble/ Responses. I don't bother to read them but I do see your getting your Ass kicked here quite a bit! Just like real life HuH? Here is some good advice! STFU about what you know nothing about! You're NOT Qualified to even have an opinion on this board! I've had you pegged as a TROLL from the git-go! -Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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You could have the same rebate as the RUM case if you took the belt off the 585 AHR and headspaced off the shoulder 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Rob, jeffe, CCMDoc and others who know what they're talking about: Would it be not merely possible, but practicable , to get 2,500 fps from an 800 grain bullet in the .585 AHR?That interests me. As michael458 has said, I like the looks of that round. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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For sure. If case capacity is the same then - no problems.. I have run 800 grs GS Custom FN bullets at 2500fps+ in my 577 Tyrannosaur. Went for a 2460 fps load for Africa. Shot 3 eles with it. Most bullets exited even when shooting diagonal body shots... Only draw back - rifle is heavy and recoil is not for the faint of heart... But is it effective - its bloody amazing.. Michael458 just planted the short barrel/light rifle seed in me some time ago. I have a 458AR and soon a 500 AR as well. Both under 8 Ibs. I would prefer them any day to a heavy (11-13 Ibs) and long (23-25" inch barrel) rifle.. So I guess my 585 will get a lot less workout in the future, even though its very impressive on the biggest game.. Ulrik | |||
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Now I just got to figure a way to stuff it in a Winchester M70 that weighs 7 lbs and has an 18 inch barrel???? HEH HEH http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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MR, I have to defer to the others here. The highest velocities I chrono'ed in the 585AHR was 2,418fps (5 round average for that particular load) with the GS Custom 800g FN. I wasnt trying to find top velocities (for once ), just a good load my dad could use on Cape buffalo. Even then, I backed it down to a 2,200fps load for him.Little doubt that you could hit over 2,500fps with an 800g GSC using W760 or H414. Would probably need a real man's barrel length (23-25") rather than the eunich-like appendage preferred by some.  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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