quote:

Originally posted by BlackHawk1:
.395/.416 Rigby > .395 Sebae

Python Sebae-(Central)African Rock Python, Africa's largest constrictor

BH1,
That will inspire a new thread growth, maybe, over the holidays if anyone is looking in to add to it. I'll start it now: Name your .395 XXX, add it to the running list to be updated daily.

Ron,

500 Grains reckons the next barrel he gets is being made by Pac Nor as a smooth bore AND then he is taking the barrel to a thread maker for the rifling job

Mike

I have given Gerard's drawings of the .395 GSC bullets to a Remington R&D engineer to see if he can talk the bean counters into chambering some Remington 798's in .395 GSC.

I won't be holding my breath for the bean counters to approve it.

rip...

it would be easier to try to tempt them into doing a 338 rum or a rem version of the 375 ruger...

you got cahones for trying

what did the rem r+d guy say about the soon to be 395's???

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Alf,
You know you are even loonier than me. But since you are playing the devil's advocate:

There is nothing out there quite as "right" as the .395.

Back to real issues: it looks like zero freebore and just a leade might work for all of these bullets. I would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this. Gerard, Alf, the collective wisdom of ar.com ...

gotta telllyou ron, i am a big fan of some freebore and a longish throat... just like your 500 JAB, as that will allow the case to go into most any action, and reduce peak pressure. caliber of each is not a bad reciepe.

jeffe

Jeffe,
Gerard's GSC bullets for this caliber could be done with only a tight leade for a throat. Here is my thinking:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Approved and accepted.

I have used the tangent of 1.5 degrees to figure how far the bullet must slide forward to reduce .3955" to .3950", a change of only 0.00025" in radius, and that linear travel is only 0.0096" or about 0.010" run. Of course the leade continues tapering until it disappears at 0.3870" bore/land diameter, after a total run of 0.1632" from its start.

But, with no freebore at all, and such a tight, leade-only throat, the bullet would have only 0.01" to jump before starting to engrave.

I wanted a little more jump and the ability to seat with the first two bands forward of the case mouth on any of those bullets, since I don't have enough neck length to grasp all of the bands.

So, 0.1800" freebore length (parallel-sided and only 0.3955" diameter), plus 0.1632" of 1.5 degree leade, that is a total throat of .3432" distance from the case mouth to funnel down gradually to pristine rifling.

Specifying this sort of "tightness" should allow for any slop creeping into the process of chambering to have no effect on accuracy, hopefully.

I expect that throat to take well to those driving bands on the GSC bullets, and I note they appear to have variable widths, spacing, and possibly diameters.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what did the rem r+d guy say about the soon to be 395's???

Not encouraging, due to bean counters.

He did tell me that even Remington must pay Rick Jamison royalties for even the SAUM rifles they build. It was not just the WSM's that Jamison whammied.

I wonder if Gerard can get any patents or copyrights on a .395 GSC in RSA? Rick Jamison can't bugger the RSA.

There was a stupid judge involved in the Jamison case. The arms companies decided it would be cheaper to pay Jamison than beat him?

BTW, the latest Core-Lokt bullets from Remington are back to being adequate for deer again. The bean counters have backed off on their cheapening effects on that anyway.

Kayaker,
The 400s are all slower twist specs and there is much evidence that tighter twist rates deliver better linear penetration. (Before someone quotes reams of paper at me proving that gyroscopic stability plays no role in penetration of tissue, it is because of the higher stability on transition from flight to tissue.)

So the 400 calibers would do well as long range firearms, if case capacity were greater. The linear penetration of a 1:12" twist 395 will be more reliable than that of a 14" or 16" twist with the same length of bullet. If the 400 is running longer bullets, the 395 will have an even greater advantage.

500grains,
I do not think going to a tighter twist than 12" will give a measurable difference in terminal ballistics with a 340gr monometal bullet. The available case capacity dictates the pressure/speed range and although tighter twist will hurt nothing when using HV and FN bullets, it will detract from the long range capability and reduce the current crop of probable 395s to double duty instead of triple duty rifles. 395/378 in 1:10" will be a serious piece of equipment for which another set of bullets would be appropriate.

RIP,
I do not think 395 xxx is a good name, even temporarily.


A joyous holiday season to all, drive carefully.

Gerard,
I shall censor the offending thread(s).

The world awaits the latest GSC inventions.

Metric nomenclature for the .395 GSC, based on the .375 H&H improved:

10.00x73mm GSC

The .395 is 10.00 mm exactly unless one wishes to get into 1/1000th's of a millimeter: 10.0033 mm

So, the .395 Tatanka would be the 10x70mm, based on the .338 Lapua Magnum case.

The 400 Mbogo with 3.000" brass will be the 10x76mm.

Just twiddling my thumbs.

395 for america 10mm for the odd and slightly misguided rest of the world...

the 9,3x62 version can be the 10x62 but ease of headstamp lends well to the 39?'s

10x62
10x64
10x66
the engish h+h case needs an english 395 imho
you could call the lapua version the 10mm tornado like the 375 version...although i like 10 mm freight train or the 10 rip better...a perfect 10

yup...its a waiting game till we see the bullets...

go gerard!

so, now you got me wondering which cart you guys are going to base the "Bo Derek" or "Bolero" on?



Couldn't resist....sorry!

i think of "night on bald mountain" as good background music to fire the big 10's too...

bolero is for small bores

kill the big five with a big ten...

hang ten over the animal only for 500 yard shooting of meercats prarie dogs ect...

as for bo derek...she was in that movie filmed in africa...cant think of the name...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
i think of "night on bald mountain" as good background music to fire the big 10's too...

bolero is for small bores

kill the big five with a big ten...

hang ten over the animal only for 500 yard shooting of meercats prarie dogs ect...

as for bo derek...she was in that movie filmed in africa...cant think of the name...

I think you mean Kim Basinger in "I Dreamed of Africa"
Two blonde babes I can see the confusion.

.

Uh-oh. That means the people reading this thread are engaged in wildcat voyeurism.

i love the 411/410!

thus my enthusiasm for the 400 jeffery aka 450/400 rimless 2.85"

the 395 is a nice niche of not to big and not too small d.g. cal

Thanks, guys!
I knew that 10.00 mm thing would be good for some more mileage.

Alf,
Playing devil's advocate again, eh?

Let us start from the beginning:

I have been shooting for 44 years, since Pop let me try his 12-guage one summer before starting into third grade. Rifle followed soon after.

All my rifle shooting preferences have boiled down to this one special caliber: .395 or 10mm

It is more than big enough to be legal for any game, anywhere.

It has a slightly more satisfying thump than the old standard .375.

It has the advantage of having 3 special purpose bullets designed for it, right out of the blocks, that make it suitable for any rifle task: 340 grain FN-solid, HV-soft, and SP-long-range-target.

The .338 Lapua is not legal for all the world's game.

The .395 is.

The .338 Lapua may be about optimum for long range work, and we do not claim the .395/.338 Lapua will be better, but it will certainly be a contender for supersonic well past 1000 yards, and with GSC bullet accuracy.

If a .375 Weatherby can do 2800 fps with 300-grain conventional bullets from a 26" barrel, then just how fast will the .395 GSC be able to move the 340-grain SP bullet, loaded long and in the proper throat? Maybe 2700 fps?

Don't ask the 400 H&H to do that, please.

The same .395 GSC will also be capable of magazine-box-length loads of 340-grain HV and FN at 2600 fps: That will handily out do the .375 with less recoil than a hot loaded .416.

The .395/340gr is much more pleasing overall with its triple purpose bullets, than any other cartridge out there.

.408 Chey-Tac?
Wildcatting the Gibbs case head really takes it into the 50 BMG rifle action requirement, due to pressure and bolt thrust.

So the .408 CheyTac cannot compete as a sporting, portable weapon.

We can go the 400 Mbogo route and make it a 3.000" long Rigby case without the .408 Chey-Tac handicaps.

.395 GSC
.395 Tatanka
400 Mbogo

All of these sound good to me and would be more versatile than either the .338 Lapua or .408 Chey-Tac. That is for sure.
Now tell the devil to get his hand out of your pocket, Alf.

Alf,
On 25 November 2006, on page 11 of that 17 page thread that will live forever in infamy ("Are you tired of hearing discussions of twist?"), I addressed a request to Gerard Schultz for various caliber "twist checkers" from .223 to .510.
Then added:
"I've been wishing for a long time that I had a .395 caliber rifle to fill that huge gap in the caliber list."

Gerard promptly agreed to make the bullet in private communication.

Then Harry McGowen agreed to do the barrels.

Nothing would have happened if Gerard Schultz had not agreed to make the bullet.

Gerard Schultz should take all credit and all blame for all things .395. He will be the first producer of anything tangible regarding this exciting new caliber rifle.

/

Alf, pls see your PMs.

Alf,
Are you saying I've been had by a bullet pimp, for a a four-way with three 10 mm's? Great! They are all 10's.

PS: Hope Gerard doesn't read this, after the .395 XXX business.

And furthermore, but not to slam H&H, the 400 H&H is more like the bolt action equivalent of a 450/400 NE 3", with 400 grainers at low velocity, in the quaint .411 caliber.

The .395 GSC, .395 Tatanka, and 400 Mbogo are all in a different league entirely. The League of Extraordinary Cartridges. No extended pinky finger cartridges allowed.

I dare say too that the .395/.338 Lapua Magnum (.395 Tatanka) will be a slicker feeder than the 400 H&H. The significant body taper and 20 degree shoulder of the Lapua case are slick.

This must be a first. Bullets are ready for shooting, we just need a rifle.

PS. The metric size is 10.033mm / 9.830mm

Beautiful!
Gerard,
Thanks for the correction, to 10.033 mm, not 10.0033 mm. Don't know how I screwed that up. Just giddy I reckon and jiggled on the keyboard.
1 inch = 25.399986 mm, so 25.4 mm per inch is indeed close enough for GSC work.

We are waiting on Harry McGowen to get the barrels done. He is in good health and as reliable as you are.
I'll be staying on top of this.

You are to be commended for working so hard through the holidays.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
This must be a first. Bullets are ready for shooting, we just need a rifle.

PS. The metric size is 10.033mm / 9.830mm

a star is born!

thanks gerard!

gerard...

you are to be given a bulletsmiths medal for the lightning and good work you have done...

what do you say we put some dresses on those ladies i.e. stuff them in some cases for a photoshoot. dont know if those are the only ones right now. pics are great, i hope you are taking pics of all the steps to chronicle it. i would be happy to post the pics if it is a hassle to you.

/

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
This must be a first. Bullets are ready for shooting, we just need a rifle.

PS. The metric size is 10.033mm / 9.830mm

All hail Gerard!

Way cool!!

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Bliksem ! thunder amd lightning

That is two inches of looooong range bullet, what platform did you guys say you were going to do this on??????????????????????? 338 Lapua? and how long is the max box going to be or the action to do this? And what rifling twist rate?

Methinks it will have to be mounted on a golf cart

Alf,
You have not been keeping up with your reading. Pay attention please:

Twist is 1:12" for 1000 yard accuracy with the SP, and greater than 2.7 gyrostability factor with the FN at close range. The HV is the happy medium. The .408 Chey-Tac uses a 1:13" twist.

Gerard is doing the .395/.375 H&H Improved, called the .395 GSC. He can single shot load the SP (long nose) and the HV and FN will work from the box.

I am doing a .395/.338 Lapua with a 3.8" box that will handle all of them through the box, or the SP can be long loaded for extra case capacity, and I will be able to long load the HV and FN by a couple of bands forward of the case mouth to fill the box length. Just about 0.2" of throat needed for that.

Then there is the .395/470 Mbogo with case lengthened to 3.000", down the road: 400 Mbogo

All of these will be man-portable 10 pound field ready rifles. No golf carts needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Here are the prototype drawing details. Pending field and range testing there may be small changes but this is pretty much what we will be using.

395340HV -
Bullet Length - 45.10mm 1.776"
Nose Length - 20.00mm 0.787"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .560



395340FN -
Bullet Length - 34.04mm 1.340"
Nose Length - 15.38mm 0.606"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .155



395340SP -
Bullet Length - 48.25mm 1.90"
Nose Length - 27.05mm 1.065
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .701
BC @2800fps - .722

next stop 300 and 400 grainers...

300 gr = 275 s.d.
400 gr = 366 s.d.


those 300 gr flat nose would be my all rounder in the 395 boom stick...

flat nose = less sd needed imho

boomie,
Next stop is make use of the perfect projectiles shown above in a McGowen barrel or other make of your choice, in your own designer cartridge. Other bullet weights will come only after that.

One Planet, One Bullet: .395 GSC

damn...those are pretty...

340 gr + 311 s.d. + 2700 fps = perfection...

donor rifle...$600
new barrel....$180
smithing......$300

having a new d.g. caliber...priceless!

McGowen Barrels:
Chrome-moly: $180
Stainless: $280
That is for standard contours, up to 28" long, 1:12" twist.

Very nice

Awrite awreddy! Scints ya dissed my .385, gess I'll hav ta git onadese. (And if anyone lets my students see this writing...)
On the upside, yes, I'll get a barrel just for the heck of it and try it. I already have a .375H&H (LH Rem 700 HORRORS), and on order, a lefthand .375 Ruger. Might as well join the fun.

goodonya 242!