We hope to see the ".395 GSC" bullet and a cartridge by the same name, based on a .375 H&H Improved necked up. 2007 should be a very good year.

There is a 398-grain .408 bullet out there:


And a 324-grain "kurz" version by the same maker, .408 caliber:


Makes this wildcatter lust for a 340-grain/.395 GSC HV/FN/SP and maybe someday a 400-grain SP with BC of about 1.0.

RIP
those bullets look so evil they should kill buffalo without even shooting them.....

Comparison of the .338 Lapua to a .408 Chey-Tac:

.338 Lapua Magnum (Neck up to .395 Tatanka)


.408 Cheyenne Tactical (Necked down from .505 Gibbs)


Try these side by sides:


50BMG and .338 Lapua:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
RIP
those bullets look so evil they should kill buffalo without even shooting them.....

vapodog,
The GSC .395cal/340-grain "SP" would fit right in there between those two wicked looking target bullets by Lutz Moeller.

Of course we do not wish to try to scare buffalo to death by flashing our wicked looking target and varmint bullets at them. We rather hope to perforate them with an HV and/or FN.

I posted those cartridge pictures above to give an idea of why I prefer the 400 Mbogo (.395/470 Mbogo) instead of a .395/.505 Gibbs.

Of course there is no question about the .395 Tatanka AKA .398 Lapua. That is a sweet heart of a cartridge for sure.

With the .395/.338 Lapua Magnum (.395 Tatanka), the brass length is 2.724" max.

In a Rigby-length box whether only 3.750" or 3.800"+, as in some, there will be room for more than an inch of bullet nose ahead of the case. This offers possibility for some interesting bullets to work through the magazine box, but even a 400-grain/.395 caliber needle-nose bullet could be loaded single-shot style for those 1000-yard matches.

good thread rip

the 395 on the ruger case will be restricted to hunting and 500 meter target practice

maybe gerard can post the bullet drawings here if they are not top secret

p.s. i cant pick which babe id like more...

do i HAVE to have one or the other

.408 Chey-Tac: groove .408", bore .400"

.398 Lapua Magnum: groove .395", bore .387"

Lost River Ballistics .408/400-grainer is slightly sub groove diameter in its bearing surface.




These are very interesting times we live in.

The .395 caliber standard twist has been established by Rate-of-twist Internationale Permanente (RIP) as 1:12", or 1:305mm. For comparison, the .408 Chey-Tac has a 1:13" twist, and all the .375's have worked well with 1:12", so no worries, and still room for a 1:10" special purpose barrel in the future.

The new .395 GSC cartridge will use bullets (HV, SP, and FN) that will probably look something like the bullets below. Just imagine a .395/340-grainer. A new Standard African All-Purpose Rifle (SAAR)

As an aside, our 408CT SP and HV bullets have been in use for almost two years and the 295gr SP for the 338LM has been around since early 2000 and precedes the KJG bullet by about 8 months.




There is also a 416420 SP for the 416 Barret and 416 Nemesis. First trials were done at 1000m and early next year the bullet will be tested beyond 2000m to see how far it will be good for. We are hoping to break 2900m.

HUBBA HUBBA!

Gerard,
Thanks for taking the time out from bullet designing to post such lovelies.

If only the .408 Chey-Tac and .416 Barrett were available in sporty 10 pound hunting rifles. And the .338 Lapua is sub-DG caliber.

Hence the urgent need for a new caliber such as the .395 that can do it all.

I'll be wanting to try those .338/295grSP's if they will work in a 10" twist AR-30 .338 Lapua.
Do they require a 1:9" twist? And BTW, what is a .416 Nemesis?

heh, there once was a fella that built a 10.5# CT... and it BLEW him down...


you know, right, that shilen can make you a .400 barrel, right now, today, right?
http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Totally useless Jeffe, a 16" twist "for all bullets." 10mm pistol would be more appropriate for that "rifle barrel." Maybe a 38-45 Martini with paper-patched lead slugs?

No, no, no. .395 lends itself so well to headstamp modification.

Harry McGowen is in good health and on the project.

RIP,
The 338 295 SP requires a 1:7" twist. I am not sure if a 416 Barret is like a 416 Nemesis or the other way around. The Nemesis is built in New Zealand and based on a 50BMG case. We did the bullets for them middle of last year and trials were done in Feb this year. Twist is 1:12 and it launches the 420gr SP at 3200fps.

Ron,
heh, you know i've got .550itis, so not slamming you guys.. a new button, which allows you to have a faster twist, is like $200 bucks, and it's completely setup.. and THEN you have got something.. plinker jacketed bullets, a KNOWN bore, etc etc

and STILL call it the .395, .. though I would call it the .400 ... but that's just me... like a 303 is a 311, no reason in the world to not call it the .395, for wildcatting ease, .. just no jeffe minded reason to go through the trouble of custom custom custom everything to get there..

jeffe

Gerard,
Thanks. That bullet is a good reason for a 1:7" twist .338 barrel, for sure.

Jeffe,
Far too practical there.

Once the .395 caliber takes over the world, there will be little need for anything else for DG, PG, or varmints.

.395 Ruger
.395 GSC
.395 Tatanka
400 Mbogo

Something for everybody. A .395 (or two) in every home.

Here are the prototype drawing details. Pending field and range testing there may be small changes but this is pretty much what we will be using.

395340HV -
Bullet Length - 45.10mm 1.776"
Nose Length - 20.00mm 0.787"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .560



395340FN -
Bullet Length - 34.04mm 1.340"
Nose Length - 15.38mm 0.606"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .155



395340SP -
Bullet Length - 48.25mm 1.90"
Nose Length - 27.05mm 1.065
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .701
BC @2800fps - .722

Gerard,
I am immensely grateful.

Those are perfect, of course! The SP seated as deeply as it will go, will work through a Rigby magnum box for the .398 Lapua AKA .395 Tatanka. I will have to do a minimum throat for that to avoid gas cutting.

The HV and FN will be perfect for the .395 GSC and boom stick's .395 Ruger. Ought to work in the SP throated .398 Lapua also, eh, Gerard?

My original thoughts were for 0.3000" long parallel-sided freebore, with a diameter of 0.3955", and a 1.5 degree leade.

Does this sound acceptable to avoid throat wear and allow some .375 Wby type loading?

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Here are the prototype drawing details. Pending field and range testing there may be small changes but this is pretty much what we will be using.

395340HV -
Bullet Length - 45.10mm 1.776"
Nose Length - 20.00mm 0.787"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .560



395340FN -
Bullet Length - 34.04mm 1.340"
Nose Length - 15.38mm 0.606"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .155



395340SP -
Bullet Length - 48.25mm 1.90"
Nose Length - 27.05mm 1.065
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .701
BC @2800fps - .722

/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
RIP:

May I be so bold as to ask: Why ? what are you getting that you already do not have?

the same thing heroine addicts get when they shoot up for the first time...an addiction go rip/gerard/team 395

Alf,
You know you are even loonier than me. But since you are playing the devil's advocate:

There is nothing out there quite as "right" as the .395.

Back to real issues: it looks like zero freebore and just a leade might work for all of these bullets. I would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this. Gerard, Alf, the collective wisdom of ar.com ...

more

less

Freebore and leade design would be very much dependent on case capacity. The front drive band should be anywhere from just inserted into the freebore to touching the start of the leade. Freebore should be kept as close to the groove diameter of the barrel, certainly not more than 0.030mm (0.0012") over groove diameter.

From a rebarreled .375 rifle, I will feed the SP manually as it will not fit the mag box but the HV and FN will work in anything that feeds and fits a 375H&H.

What do we get that we do not have or have access to already?
In one practical hunting rifle we get:
Something different.
More reach than a .375H&H,
More close range ability than a 375.
Less recoil than a 416 Remigby.
1000 m/yd varminting.
An excuse for another rifle.

So a "start-of-leade" and freebore diameter of 0.3955" minimum to 0.3960" maximum.

1.5 degree leade.

Parallel-sided freebore length will be from 0.0000" minimum to ...

TO BE CONTINUED

0.1800".

Sounds good.

Approved and accepted.

I have used the tangent of 1.5 degrees to figure how far the bullet must slide forward to reduce .3955" to .3950", a change of only 0.00025" in radius, and that linear travel is only 0.0096" or about 0.010" run. Of course the leade continues tapering until it disappears at 0.3870" bore/land diameter, after a total run of 0.1632" from its start.

But, with no freebore at all, and such a tight, leade-only throat, the bullet would have only 0.01" to jump before starting to engrave.

I wanted a little more jump and the ability to seat with the first two bands forward of the case mouth on any of those bullets, since I don't have enough neck length to grasp all of the bands.

So, 0.1800" freebore length (parallel-sided and only 0.3955" diameter), plus 0.1632" of 1.5 degree leade, that is a total throat of .3432" distance from the case mouth to funnel down gradually to pristine rifling.

Specifying this sort of "tightness" should allow for any slop creeping into the process of chambering to have no effect on accuracy, hopefully.

I expect that throat to take well to those driving bands on the GSC bullets, and I note they appear to have variable widths, spacing, and possibly diameters.

RIP and Gerard,

I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart...with all seriousness. This is a true contender for the "One cartridge for the World" title. You guys have taken Boomies' dream and run with it. I am pleased just to have stimulated the conversation a little in the early stages.
RIP! You 'da Man!
GERARD, you 'da Man!

regards,

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS

rip and i came up with it independantly (as well as others too over the ages) and i thought we should have our own a.r. bore i thought this was the biggest sensable gap in the big bores thus my putting it out there to do an a.r. project.

thanks for all the support so far

next year will be fun!

Thanks, Rich, and boom stick.
boom stick, RIP, even Mike 375 in 2001, many have toyed with the idea for many moons and many coons' ages.

The real credit goes to Gerard Schultz for magnanimously agreeing to make the best bullets in the world for such a rifle caliber. He will be the first to produce anything tangible for the .395. The rest will follow, and soon the .395 shall rule The World.

An honest question...

Is the existing .400 Tembo not a ballistic twin with for all intents, an identical calibre bullet? .395 (340gr) vs genuine .400 (350-375, or with a GS, perhaps also 340gr?)

I am not pissing on it, just curious as to how much 'better' .395 will be that .400 with same bullet weights and velocity?

kayaker,
I forget what the .400 Tembo was???

The .400 Pondoro is a .409 groove diameter based on a 2.810" .375 H&H. A-Square may have renamed that one the ".400 Dual Purpose Magnum" which is itself a reflection of versatility.

.400 Tembo? Sumbuddy who know? Is that a true .400 groove diameter or just another .409/.410/.411 "me too" like the .400 H&H.

Gerard's .395 GSC (.395/.375 H&H Improved) ought to do a whole lot more than a .400 H&H, and with better bullets.

My .395 Tatanka (.395/.338 Lapua Magnum) will be striving for 340-grainers at 2800 fps ... with what barrel length, yet to be determined.

RIP,

its Kevin Robertsons baby..

Its a shortened .404 necked down to a TRUE .400 (not.408/.411).

Barnes made the first bullets in 350 and 375gr.

They worked on 350gr/2350 fps and 375/2270fps BUT I am sure, given the capacity it could easily outdo this (if you felt it necessary?) as they were going for very low pressures like the the classics (sub 50 000 psi I believe)..

Cheers

O.K.
.400 Tembo, 2001 and many people involved including Randy Brooks of Barnes Bullets, etc.

Did the search. True .400" groove diameter/caliber on a shortened .404 Jeffery, therefore close to a .416 Howell or .404 Dakota with true .400 caliber.

Can't hold a candle to the aggregate of a .395 GSC (H&H Improved) or a .395 Tatanka (Lapua Magnum), or a .395 Boom Stick (on the Ruger case), maybe even a 400 Mbogo on the maxed out and lengthened Rigby case.

Something for any standard or magnum action will soon be available in .395, the caliber born on accuratereloading.com and long overdue at that.

The headstamp issue alone makes it more than worth while, let alone the unparalleled ballistic versatility:

.375 >>> .395
.338 >>> .398

This is no caliber for a mere "Dual Purpose Magnum."

This is a caliber for a "Triple Purpose Magnum."

Joy to the world!
Merry Christmas!
Happy new year!
2007 is the year of the .395, a very good year.

Question for Gerard:

If this cartridge were optimized for use on elephant frontal brain shots within 25 yards (without a care to thousand yard potential), what would you suggest for:

bullet weight
bullet design (May I assume your FN solids?)
twist rate
muzzle velocity

A 395/378

.395/.416 Rigby > .395 Sebae

Python Sebae-(Central)African Rock Python, Africa's largest constrictor

Mike,
I recall your comments about why it was a .375 H&H, not a .395 H&H, back in 2001, when 500 grains and I were both still wet behind the ears.

You are in luck now. Easy headstamp modification: .378 Weatherby >>> .398 Weatherby with the stroke of an engraving tool.

We of the .395 Fraternity welcome even Mark V Weatherby's to the stables for the matches, even the fancy ones, as long as you don't buff them up too flash, or gild the lilly with too much gold.

Gerard has said that the .395/340gr FN has a gyrostability factor of over 2.7 in the 1:12" twist barrel and velocity in the 2500 to 2800 fps range.

I think that Gerard would also agree, said as much above, that a 1:10" twist would better for an elephant brainer.

I'll leave it at that. Musn't linger too long on the T-word.

Saeed has seen no advantage in penetration with his .375/300gr Walterhogs past 2700 to 2750 fps. Of course that is an expanding bullet that blows its nose off and becomes a lighter near cylindrical FN solid at those velocities in buffalo.

Higher speeds may deform the FN.

My bloody SWAG on this is that the proposed .395/340gr FN would be best at 2500 to 2600 fps, from the 10" twist, but the 12" twist will do fine.

The .395/340gr HV and SP should do their best work at 2700 to 2800 fps at longer ranges in a 12" twist, but the 10" twist would do fine inside of 500 yards/meters also.

I think Gerard has come up with the optimum weight for this caliber, .395/340gr with SD = .311.

boom stick may be rooting for a .395/300gr with SD = .275, for an HV and FN, so he can take full advantage of the 2500 to 2800 fps range with a .395 Ruger, and that would allow some interesting potential for all the .395's-to-be, after the .395 takes over the world of big game hunting, and there is a greater demand for bullets.

This "Triple Purpose Rifle Caliber" is just so INCREDIBLY versatile, we might as well just refer to it as the .395 ??? until the "air cartridges" become real.