I have noticed the 375 Ultra seems to be appearing a lot more on the forums.

I am sure if it was chambered in the standard M70 or CZ there would be a lot more of them about.

I wonder how well it sells in the real world?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
I have noticed the 375 Ultra seems to be appearing a lot more on the forums.

I regret to hear that.

The 375 RUM fills the same niche as the 378 Weatherby: 500 yard shots at elk. Or 600 yard shots at roos.

Or possibly 500 yard shots at oryx in the Namib.

But for ordinary African hunting with shots under 200 yards, it is way too much of a good thing.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
I have noticed the 375 Ultra seems to be appearing a lot more on the forums.

I am sure if it was chambered in the standard M70 or CZ there would be a lot more of them about.

I wonder how well it sells in the real world?

Mike

Mike I think its only popular on sites like this where you have gun (& calibre) nuts. Judging by the fact that you can buy (in Oz) new 375RUM Brass for $85 per 100 and 300RUM brass sells for $120 per 100. I'd say the 375RUM is pretty much dead commercially.

BUT - that's never stopped any "gunnuts". Just stock up on brass now while its cheap!!!

You are absolutely right about the CRF thing & the 375 RUM. But as you have always pointed out the 375 H&H is about the max level of recoil that the "most" people can tolerate. Having got a RUM I appreciate that fact even more. It really does kick significantly more.

Regards
JohnT

John,

You want a try one of the early 378s that had barrels so thin they looked like a 410 shotgun.

The rifle does recoil but rather launches a personal attack on the shooter.

But I think the tru value in the RUM and 378 is the added loading versatility althogh if someone does not like playing abiut with loads then there is not value.

I am only guessing but I think from a sales point of view the problem with the Ultra, apart from rifle availability is that it does move into the high velocity area of the 378. All mind games but if it was not for main games you about do the lot with a Ruger/Howa in 308.

If you settle on 375 H&H to 375 Improbed ballistics I think you can get better accuracy with the 375s because the loading paremeters are just so much wider.

As to the long term viability of both the 375 RUM and 416 Remington I think the problem is that the rifles and components are to low in price. I think a similar sitation is seen with the 35 Whelen. The 35 Whelen market will not bear rifle and component prices that the 375 H&H will bear.

In recent times both myself and best shooting mate have moved to the idea of the big case but loaded to equal the standard. So for example, if I wanted the 130 grain 270 at 3100 plus I would buy a 7mm Rem or 270 Wby. If I wanted 7mm Rem ballistics I would have the 7mm Ultra.

A rough rule you can use on your 375 Ultra is that top 2208 loads will be about 82% of the 2213 SC and /or Reloader 22 charges.. 2206 will be about 95% of 2208 loads.

A 378 with 85 grains of 2208 or 4064 will do just over 2600 f/s with 270 grain bullets and duch a load is about 10 grains below maximum when 2208 is used in the 378.

The 375 Ultra in the HS Precision rifle would be my number 2 choice after the 378 Mark V.

The only drawback to using the quiceker powders at low pressure in the big cases is that you really need to be able to reload where you are shotting to get the good loads.

By the way, have you use that 39-416 grains of 2205 and 220 grain Honrnady in the 375 H&H.

Mike

quote:

They have dropped the 416 rem mag, you can't find any references to them in the now cagtalogs, the 7mm STW has been dropped from production, soon ammo to will no longer be made

Alf both the 416 rem mag and the 7mm STW are both avaliable in 2 or 3 different rifles from remington's custom shop.
JMO The STW ammo being dropped I could see that but I don't think the 416 rem mag will be going anywhere soon.

heck, i think the 375 rum is a FINE round, just loaded incorrectly...

take a 400 gr 375 bullet and run it 2400 FPS and it would be perfect!!!


jeffe

I have a custom .375 Ultra mag and I really like it. I shoot 300 gr Xs at 2800+ using RL-25. I think it is a real step up from the .375H&H. It is difficult for me to quantify the difference on buffalo because I used a .375 AI with 300 gr Swifts on an earlier hunt. On my latest safari I used the 300gr X and I thought I could tell a difference. The tissue damage on buffalo (2) and a huge eland was extreme, and resulted in one shot kills. Maybe it's just me or the different bullet I used but the X bullet at 2800 is a real killer. I think you would be pushing it to try to shoot a 300 gr at 2800 with an H&H or even the AI version.

Mufasa,

I don't know what sort of load you could use to get 2600 with a 300 Barnes X in the 375 H&H, unless the chronograph was a Chrony

Mike

.

Alf,
I realize that most people cant afford custom guns. I cant afford them myself. Im sure you make more than I do.
Winchester offers it in their production rifle Model 70 Classic Safari Express.
The closest 416 rem mag ammo on the shelf that I am aware of is about 2 or 3 hours from here but it is a gun shop that carries I think around 4000 guns.

My bet is Rem comes out with a .416 Ultra so they can entice a few of us to buy a few.

There is no shortage of brass or loaded ammo for the 416 Remington around here or at our gunshows..

Ruger still makes rifles and so does Winchester and a few others..

I see more and more 416 Remingtons and less 375s in the big 5 areas of Africa than I used too, A lot of DG PHs are using it in Zimbabwe, Botswana and Tanzania....

Jarrod,
I doubt if there is much call for 416 ammo in Kentucky, they killed out the Rhinos years ago!

Keep in mind that big bore ammo is not generally carried by local gunstores that, for the most part, cater to the local deer and elk hunters. I don't find that unusual...

Same can be said for RSA which is primarily plainsgame area and also a country where importation and sales of ammo is strictly regulated by the new government and becomming more stringent every year...However there are limited supplies of big bore ammo still to had in RSA..I saw some 375, 458, 416 Rem and Rigby at one of the better known gun stores in Joberg year before last..That may have changed, don't know.

I foresee the 416 Rem as a bread and butter big bore to be with us from now on, like the .338 it has gained in sales of ammo and guns every year I have been told by some folks in the know.

As for the Rum and its coharts, the future does not look so good, but only time will tell..

I will predict that some factory will come out with a 416 on the RUM or like case, probably Remington and if they do that then Remington will drop the 416 Rem components to force sales of their new 416, they are famous for such trechery..but that will be down the road a ways, but in a worse scenario, belted magnun brass is always available and always will be for the 416 Rem. so I feel no threat...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
heck, i think the 375 rum is a FINE round, just loaded incorrectly...

take a 400 gr 375 bullet and run it 2400 FPS and it would be perfect!!!


jeffe

but there is something to be said for varnmiting with a 200 grain bullet

mufasa

If the forums are any guide at all, then it is hard to see Remington doing a 416 Ultra.

Just look at the 416 Rems on the forum, virtually everyone is a Model 70.

But it is hard to say as AR gives the impression that there is a 9.3 X 62 behind every bush.

Personally I think the 416 bore has missed the big market and that is playing around shooting rocks, deer, roos and trees etc. Just look at the bullets made in 416 by Hornady, Speer and Sierra, very thin on the ground.

As a side note the fellow in the Wby custom shop was telling me that as far as they could tell the 416 Wbys were mainly bought just for the purpose of shooting big game and factory ammo sales in relation to the number of rifles sold was much bigger than 378 or 460.

Also, while they can't give 416s away in the standard Deluxe rifle the 416 does well at the high end custom made guns.

I think if the 375 RUM had of been the 375 Winchester magnum then there would be plenty about.

But the forums are open to question in how represntative they are. The Remington Sendero was common on the forums and always with good reports but Remington dropped it due to lack of sales.

The various forums strongly indicate the 257 Wby is Wby's number 2 seller but it is the 270 Wby that is number 2 and easily number 2.

Mike

No big bore rifle is going to be a big seller because only a minority of hunters hunt big mean critters, and a few just buy them for fun but they to are the exception rather than the rule....No big bore is going to outsell the .375 H&H IMO, its the foundation of the big bores...

Ray,

I agree with you that the 375 is the king of the hill and will remain that way. However, I think the very large majority of big bores a not bought to go to Africa or to shoot other very large game.

Mike

Mike378,

Right on. Many large caliber weapons are bought simply to satisfy an urge.

charles

charles

If you saw all the Hornady 375 and 458 bullets arrive in a shipment to the Australian agent then all the buffalo should be extinct.

And all those boxes of 220 Hornady flat noses are not being used by Model 94 375 Big Bore shooters

Mike

Hey Ray- I had a Taylor a few years back, it really worked over a few chucks and yotes...can't remember what I did for twist.

I've given some thought about doing another 416 (most likey Hoffman aka Rem this time), I like Schneider tubes so I'd do a 4.5 weight cut to 25".

So after all that here is the question, what should I do 4 a twist?

Many thx

MD

quote:

I doubt there is much call for 416 ammo in Kentucky, they killed out the Rhinos years ago.

Well we still need a stopper rifle around here to stop those charging Possums

Spotlighting roos with a 460 or 378 adds some drama.

Ray would probably select a calibre for maximum efficiency and fuck up the fun

Mike

378,
Yes, I probably would...I agree many such cannons are bought for bragging rights, curiosty, by gun nuts to play with, but that is a very small portion of the gun buying market and the stats show the big bore sucking hind tit in ammo sales and firearms sales...

Oh btw, I would bring my 6x45 custom don in English design for such a hunt as you just invited me on!! thanks

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
My question is:

How long do you predict Remington will continue making rifles and ammo in this caliber?

They have dropped the 416 rem mag, you cant find any reference to them in the now catalogs, The 7mm STW has been dropped from production, soon ammo to will no longer be made.

So now I ask how long for the RUM's ?

Alf

Remington's "beancounters"(the real people at Remington that controls what stays and what goes) will dump the .375 and .338 RUM's in the very near future. They are not selling as well as the counterpart cartridges(.338 Win. and .375 H&H). No big loss as I see it. If I want a bit more power than my .375 H&H I grab my .375 Weatherby. I see the RUM's and the bigger Weatherby's(.30-378, .338-378 & .378) as overkill big time. Lawdog

quote:

Remington's "beancounters"(the real people at Remington that controls what stays and what goes) will dump the .375 and .338 RUM's in the very near future.

Add to this their dumping of the 5mm rimfire and the almost dumping of the .17 Rem (saved only by their introduction of the .17 Rem in the classic a couple years ago) and we have the makings of a company that promises only high risk cartridges. Buy one of their new cartridges and risk being sidelined ion a couple years.

It seems to me that there should be some responsibility to make ammo for a gun you sold for a certain number of years and then announce well in advance the pending discontinuation so owners can stock up if they wish.

Remington digs the hole a little deeper if they discontinue these rounds.

Ray,

There is no debate from my end that the big bangers are small sellers.

But I would maintain that most big bores are not bought to go to Africa with.

Mike

quote:

and the bigger Weatherby's(.30-378, .338-378 & .378) as overkill big time

454 big blocks

Ray's favourite gun in 378

http://www.weatherby.com/_images/products/rifles/_enlar...dgr_snowcamo_big.jpg

Hell, since Remington dropped the .416 Rem Mag (can only be ordered through the custom shop), it will only be a year or 2 before the POS 375 RUM is gone.

Now if only the 45-70 would go away...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

By the way, have you use that 39-416 grains of 2205 and 220 grain Honrnady in the 375 H&H.

Mike

Mike378 (375 had a better ring to it!)
Yes I have tried those 2205 loads with the Hornady flat Points in my 375 H&H & they are superb. Great accuracy, does 2200fps with 42.0gr. Lovely to shoot.

Have not tried such reduced loads in my RUM - what's the point I suppose. Have been trying to work up loads such that the 300gr Barnes X and the 350gr Woodleigh have the same point of impact. The 350gr Woodleighs shoot superbly in my rifle. The Barnes X - OK but not as good. Load development got held back whne 2 scopes had to be sent back. This new one seems OK, its a VX III, the previous one was a Vari X III that got sent back twice.

Whats the story with Barnes bullets anyway? They take out full page ads in our gun mags but you never see them in the gunshops. Go figure! Would love to try the banded ones.

Regards
JohnT

quote:

Now if only the 45-70 would go away...

now grains...you are just baiting toothless rednecks like me nothing brings out the troll in me like picking on the 45yaknowhat. now to the topic...if you are not defending your life the 375 ultra is a great way for the average guy to shoot a real screamer and that is the draw to it not killing cape buffs or show rifles...let the 375 grow in popularity just dont use it as a stopper just hunting big stuff with the heavy bullets or taking out woodchucks with the lighter bullets. will it live forever, no but neither will we. so rock on 375 ultra...the poor mans big stuff killer sholder puncher.

John,

A mate of mine is a total Barnes freak.

He jus git some bulletd of Toys for Boys. The bloke says he is selling lots of the banded bullets.

Whether that applies to the bigger bores I have no idea as my mate was getting the small calibres.

By the way could have some nice reduced loads in the 375 Ultra.

Mike

John,

PS

A mate of mine who is a lurker on the boards insisted that it change to Mike378.

Mike

Hunting and shooting are two different things, with very different markets. The 375 RUM is a shooter's round all the way and much more affected by the "what's new" market than the 416 Rem. The 416 is a hunter's round, and by far the most cost-effective step up from the great 375 H&H, another hunter's round.The H&H, by the way, is blessed by the fact that both hornady and Federal make factory ammo for it that actually negates the hunter's need for the 375 RUM in the field, AND these offerings have very fine HUNTING bullets crimped into them as well. A premium bullet of 300 grs at 2700 fps is gonna do the job...ANY job...well enough for a hunter. A shooter looks at the numbers on paper too much and wants 5500 FPE vs 4800 from a 375, but it means exactly squat in the field. If you are a serious DG hunter and want to aviod pucker potential when something big is thrashing around in the brush or grass a few feet away, or if you need to protect clients in the field, a 416 or 458 makes sense. If you step up to the 458s, what you use in range may not be worth it, and you then have a close range DG dedicated rifle. The 416 Rem and Rigby keep the 375's range and work well as stoppers, so they get the nod if flexibility is important.

well maybe I should buy 2000 or so pieces of brass this week. its not like I'll ever get what I put into my rifle if I try to sell it. The rebated thing does not bother me, how much of a difference in function can .002" really make?

gixxer

I am in agreement with you . In reality the very slight rebate of the RUM makes little difference in the real world.

While on the other hand , you never see these "traditional" cartridge fans bashing such stuff as the 500 Jeffrey , which is a real shit designed cartridge ; likely it was cooked up by a snot nosed Brit bean counter back in the day.......

I don't necessarly believe that Remington has any plans to discontinue the .375 RUM in the near future and I say that with a bit of knowledge of whats going on with that particular caliber at Remington. I can't say how or what, but they are putting quite a bit of effort into it. The .416 Rem. I don't know about other than it is almos the standard now for buff hunters coming to Australia. I bought one in a model 70 this year and had a hell of a time finding one, it wasn't that they aren't being made, it was that dealers that do carry such guns were having a hard time keeping them on the shelf. Remington introduces most new stuff at the SHOT show, so in five months or so I should have a bit of new info.

Just like everything else Remington stamps their name on, the BUM RUMs will be nothing more than a bad memory in a few years! Remington has, over the years, marketed more, now discontinued, cartridges, and cheaper built rifles than any company in the history of sporting firearms. That's a shame, because Remington was the first gun COMPANY in the USA, and from shortly after the WWII, to date, have steadily gone downhill.

Back in the early 60s when Remington went the Discount Store route,their quality has steadily dropped. Then WBY followed them into the Wal-Mart showcases, with like junk, but at least, for now, Weatherby still makes passable rifles as well, even if they do look like pimpmobiles, or East LA low riders! To top this off, at least WBY still makes ammo for almost everything they ever chambered, except the 375 WBY. , and their cartridges are not stolen from wildcatters, by makeing a small change and calling it WBY, like Rem does!

The 416 Rem is the exception, IMO, because unlike most of the other things Remington brings out, it is a very good cartridge, exactly like it was when George Hoffman designed it, minus the small change Remington made so they could call it the .416 REMINGTON. It will be around simply because other rifle makers are chambering it in their big bore rifles! All the other, RUMs, BUMs, and the like are hearing, "For whom the bell tolls!"

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
(sic)

While on the other hand , you never see these "traditional" cartridge fans bashing such stuff as the 500 Jeffrey , which is a real shit designed cartridge ; likely it was cooked up by a snot nosed Brit bean counter back in the day.......

Actually it was designed by the Germans, Shuler to be specific.

At least it was an original design, the ultramags are nothing new, and a day late dollar short to the larger W's.