Guys,

I just bought an original 425 in very good
condition with trademark 28”barrels, folding leaf sights out to 500yds, steel buttplate and a neat cleaning rod in the but end of the stock!.

It’s got the traditional drop magazine, and most importantly the feeding rails that bring the cartridges up high and eliminate the feeding issued that much maligned this classic bolt gun/cartridge.

I’ve got brass and woodleigh,s on the way, but dies ......

Anyone know of or has a set they want to part with I would appreciate it!!!

My buddy Rigby350 has dies, so I can borrow his to load up some rounds , but obviously I want my own set.


I will be sending the rifle back to Trigger at Westley Richards for a thorough check up and some light refinishing, and then a buff/ tuskless hunt in Zim.is in the planning stages!!!

Just had word it’s a 20’s vintage!!,


Cheers

Nick

Congrats!
Don't tease us!
Pics!

Congratulations !
I had the opportunity to buy an original that was a takedown. 30 some years ago. Price wasn't Too bad , but I opted to pass. It had seen A lot of use in Tanganyika which is where the guy that had it , got it. Well it was Tanzania when he hunted there.
I couldn't believe how superbly that rifle fit me and how well it pointed.

Yes picture are definitely in order!

Looking forward to the 425 hunt, will be awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by nickh:
Guys,

I just bought an original 425 in very good
condition with trademark 28”barrels, folding leaf sights out to 500yds, steel buttplate and a neat cleaning rod in the but end of the stock!

It’s got the traditional drop magazine, and most importantly the feeding rails that bring the cartridges up high and eliminate the feeding issued that much maligned this classic bolt gun/cartridge.

Good to hear, since the WR 425 was known to go into 'jammomatic mode' right after the first shot on a charging rhino or lion.

Basically it was an iffy and expensive 'one-shot wonder.' The hunter survived the charge only if that first shot happened to strike the bad beasty in its vital organ or shoulder.

This is not the same 425 WR that Saint Finn Aagaard had rebarreled to .458 Win., WR magazine "rail clips" and all:

Rock Island Auction Company Sep 7-9, 2018, coming up:



"Factory Engraved Gold Inlaid Westley Richards/Mauser Takedown Bolt Action Rifle in 425 Magnum Express Caliber with Factory Letter"
https://www.rockislandauction.com/



Rip ...

https://www.theexplora.com/a-c...tion-big-game-rifle/


Rip ...

Simon Clode of WR said of this recent build by WR:

"Yes, we retained the little sprung cartridge clips and always fit them when we build this calibre."

I finally know what the WR builder calls them:

"The little sprung cartridge clips."

Also: "Spring-loaded (Magazine) Side Clips"

Interesting Post by former Actioneer at WR - To Quote Gunny Jim: "I worked for WR ( 12 years ), the .425 is a good round. I only built two rifles in this calibre. For the cartridge to feed effectively in the mauser 98 action, two spring loaded side clips are used to stop the cartridges being pushed out of the mag box by the follower etc. When the bolt is pushed forwards, the clips are pushed outwards allowing the bolt face to feed the round off the follower and into the chamber. It took a lot of time to alter the receiver walls and do the feedwork for this calibre than any other I have ever built. That aside, recoil was moderate. Modern rifle stocks are designed with higher cheek pieces and combs. The old rifles that came into the factory that I fired always kicked like mules because of their old stock measurements. Many of the old rifles had very long barrels - 24/26'', and the muzzle flash was always impressive in low light conditions."


Rip ...

I like the second one best. WR has had a tendency to gild the chequering lily, on a occasion.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I like the second one best. WR has had a tendency to gild the chequering lily, on a occasion.

Yep, that Plain Jane Take-Down Model is a "business rifle" for sure.

Rip ...

Can only give high prase for the 425. However, for buffalo I would use FMJs or look for a more stout soft the the standard RNS.
Does Swift or North Fork do softs in the 435?

And the WR .425 is better than Jeffrey's .404 ... how?

Just received brass from Bertram and 200 projectiles from Woodleigh,
softs and solids in 410 grn. Now to star the loading and shoot the rifle when i get it next week!!

would be interested to see who else has projectiles in the the .435 cal ??
Anyone know of any??

Nick

I will donate my other left nut for a original best grade WR 425 !

There is something very very sexy about that big gun !

Everyone should have a real life , hero in their lives to look up to. So it is with a good friend from the old country. His late Grandfather very much his hero and the old man hunted with a 425 WR...... guess his adulation of that rifle somehow made a impression on me to...... so much so that I have dies, cases and bullets for a 425 but no rifle So now all that's needed is for one to pop up somewhere !

As to better or worse than the 404 ? Did not know there was a competition on...... each special in their own way....... only problem with the 425 today is a relative lack of access to components to shoot them with

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
I will donate my other left nut for a original best grade WR 425 !

It could be a hydrocele, an incumbrance of course, but some guy once convinced the Pope he did have three, after which His Holiness gave the man licence to take a second wife.

Not sure if its "better than the 404" but I'd say it fits the standard length M98 better than the 404

why not just shorten the 404 neck to achieve a better fit in the 98 system?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
...That aside, recoil was moderate. Modern rifle stocks are designed with higher cheek pieces and combs. The old rifles that came into the factory that I fired always kicked like mules because of their old stock measurements. Many of the old rifles had very long barrels - 24/26'', and the muzzle flash was always impressive in low light conditions."

I’m not following.
The felt recoil of my original 425 was significant but I figured that was mostly due to its steel butt plate. My Ruger No.1 in 375H&H was worse.
Modern rifles are more often stocked for scope use so are straighter through the comb and heel but IMO that makes recoil worse not better.

That deluxe 425 at Rock Island is quite a rifle but I think the estimate is at least double what it will go for.

Guys
Whether it’s 416 Rigby, 416 Remington ,404 Jeffery or 425 WR , they are all so similar when loaded to factory spec. That it doesn’t matter!!
For me the 425 takes 5 down and one in the spout. Not many others can do that.
Also , I’m going to play with the stripper clips that were used to quickly recharge the magazine.

Because of the 425,s 30/06 base, this can be an advantage!!

Will see how it all goes in a few days when I get it and have a play.

Cheers.

Nick

You're right. Not much between them all as far as performance.
I never tried the stripper clips on my rifle (8mm Mauser based! ) but did put some cases on one and it is just as shown in the W.R. illustration above - they just barely all fit on the clip.
Makes me wonder if there were many reasons to go with the rebated rim.
One is that they could tout the quick reloading capability of the 425 over the 404 and 416 so had to use that rim diameter. Downside of course is that the higher grade rifles had to be modded with the side clips.
I don't really know why original 404s feed and cycle like butter yet W.R. felt it necessary to add the clips when the case body is about the same diameter as the 404.

Also, be very careful to inspect your brass at the web/rim cut.
Many that I had cracked around the base as I suspect they are made from 404 basic brass and the extractor groove cut thinned the case too much.

Both of these points have led many 425 users to add a second bolt opened up for the 404 rim and form 404 brass to shoot in their 425s.
Solves a couple difficulties.

Huvius,
The side clips allow the case to rise higher
so the bolt face does not override the rebated rim.

Rip

Thanks for the tips Huvius.
Bertram make brass for the 425,and I have 60 new cases, so I’m lucky I don’t need to form it using 404 brass!
I start loading this week, and will shoot the rifle next weekend.
Going to start with 79 grains of AR2218 with the woodleigh 410softs and see what velocity the 28”
Barrel gives me.

RIP , you are 100% on your explanation of the side clips

Cheers

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
And the WR .425 is better than Jeffrey's .404 ... how?

Because its old.

The 416 Ruger is what they all should have been.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Huvius,
The side clips allow the case to rise higher
so the bolt face does not override the rebated rim.

Rip

Of course, but not all of the W.R. built 425s had them - not even the super deluxe one pictured above.
They made a lower cost 425 too - I think it was called the Game Ranger or something. They didn't have the clips iirc.
Just saying, those side clips are a high price to pay for using the rebated rim.
The 425 made its reputation with it's field performance and the LT capped bullets they offered - the rebate was a design flaw which only allowed one thing, loading from stripper clips. I doubt many hunters bothered to do that and to tell you the truth, I don't recall seeing any vintage 425 ammo offered on stripper clips - just boxed like any other game cartridge.

nickh, I'm not necessarily speaking of 404 brass modified to make 425.
What I mean is that manufacturers use the same base case to make both - some do it better than others.

Here's what to look for when new and after firing. I didn't even notice the cracks until after I primed these ones.

Why not use the 404 or Rum brass but use a different bolt for the larger rim? Use the nominal 425 bolt for factory rounds and the larger for reloads with Rum/404 brass.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Why not use the 404 or Rum brass but use a different bolt for the larger rim? Use the nominal 425 bolt for factory rounds and the larger for reloads with Rum/404 brass.

Exactly. I mentioned that in one of my previous posts.
Makes brass much easier to source.
The original bolt set aside until the rifle is passed on to its next owner.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I like the second one best. WR has had a tendency to gild the chequering lily, on a occasion.

Yep, that Plain Jane Take-Down Model is a "business rifle" for sure.

Rip ...

Plain Jane???? That is a work of art.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I like the second one best. WR has had a tendency to gild the chequering lily, on a occasion.

Yep, that Plain Jane Take-Down Model is a "business rifle" for sure.

Rip ...

Plain Jane???? That is a work of art.

Plain only in comparison to the super deluxe model.
But the latter is a piece of gilded crap if it does not have the side clips!
The plain jane one has side clips and is truly
more beautiful than the gilded crap.

Rip ...

I ordered my dues from C-H. Watch that Bertram brass I was getting head seperation after a few loads, no sign of pressure. Also had to trim some .100 of a inch. Made a bunch out of 494 Jeffery brass and I’m on the 8th load

Gotta love it when the court of internet warriors criticize what must be one of the worlds most famous gunmaking houses

Im sure that WR would not risk their good name by building and selling a rifle that is going to fail it owner !

As to their history they hold as a company or in the name of the great Leslie Taylor of the most patents awarded to a maker.

Of the worlds most famous hunting personalities and PH's hunted with WR rifles, including Selous, Hemingway and Elmer Keith

Huvius and boom stick.

Great suggestion about changing over the bolt to us the 404/RUM brass .
I also had a close look at the Bertam brass under a magnifying glass.
No signs of the ring as per your photo.

I will be anxious to see after I fire the first shots..

Ozhunter shot his a fair bit with the Bertram brass and all went well.

If the Bertram gives grief, then I will be in a bit of trouble ......

Plan B will be as per your suggestion above.

Only negative is travelling to Africa with headstamps on tha ammo not matching the gun caliber...

Cheers

Nick

Alf,
I am a big fan of WR,.
The guys at the factory swear by the caliber and performance in there rifles.
The gun will be heading back home to Birmingham after I have a play with it, for a light
refurbishment and check up.

Will let you all know how it feeds and performs in a week or so.

Cheers

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Why not use the 404 or Rum brass but use a different bolt for the larger rim? Use the nominal 425 bolt for factory rounds and the larger for reloads with Rum/404 brass.

My .425 WR is built on a Model 70 Winchester action originally made in caliber .30 RUM. No feeding problems, despite the lack of spring loaded clips and protruding magazine. I use resized RUM brass in it.

I have in mind an additional bolt to accommodate original ammunition.

I should turn some rims of .375 RUM
and 404 Jeffery brass
down to .30-06 diameter and see how they feed
in my M70 RUM-actioned rifles
for 404 Jeffery, .416 Dakota, and 12.7x68mm Magnum.
I might have problems with the bolt overiding the rims.
I might need spring-loaded magazine side clips.
The CZ 550 Magnums in .375/404JS and .410/404JRNE too.
I would love to see how CZ does it when they build a .425 WR.
It is not the case body or base diameter that matters so much
as it is the relative degree of rebate on the rim.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Huvius,
The side clips allow the case to rise higher
so the bolt face does not override the rebated rim.

Rip

Of course, but not all of the W.R. built 425s had them - not even the super deluxe one pictured above.
They made a lower cost 425 too - I think it was called the Game Ranger or something. They didn't have the clips iirc.
Just saying, those side clips are a high price to pay for using the rebated rim.
The 425 made its reputation with it's field performance and the LT capped bullets they offered - the rebate was a design flaw which only allowed one thing, loading from stripper clips. I doubt many hunters bothered to do that and to tell you the truth, I don't recall seeing any vintage 425 ammo offered on stripper clips - just boxed like any other game cartridge.

nickh, I'm not necessarily speaking of 404 brass modified to make 425.
What I mean is that manufacturers use the same base case to make both - some do it better than others.

Here's what to look for when new and after firing. I didn't even notice the cracks until after I primed these ones.

Huvius are those actual cracks or just folded brass from the turning operation i.e. the lathe tool did not peel the cut cleanly. It just looks in the photo as if the brass on the groove side is standing proud a little. Obviously you have a better look than what we see in the photo. Just asking.

I don't have them anymore to look at again but I had the same thought.
The brass is a bit proud which I took to mean that the base had cracked and when fired, the rim had been pushed back against the bolt face while the case body was still held strong in the chamber.
I believe they are actual cracks because some of them don't do all the way around as you would expect from a tool mark and they are quite jagged.
I will add that these cases came with my rifle so I don't know their usage history but others I have spoken to say to avoid the HDS 425 brass for this same reason.

Curious to hear how Bertram brass goes in this round in terms of longevity and just what size the case head in front of the rebate is in virgin brass. I have a feeling it is undersize....