I finally noticed that the Guns&Ammo 2005 Annual has an article by Craig Boddington on my all time favorite cartridge.

"The .375 Weatherby Magnum"

"Once rejected, now revived, this improved version of a safari classic definitely performs as advertised.

"Good things come to those who wait. Want proof? One of Roy Weatherby's original heavyweights--and one of my favorite loads--eventually returned to the Weatherby lineup in 2001, when it was offered in the then-new MarkV Dangerous Game Rifle ..."

Then follows photos and load data and loads of praise for the .375 Weatherby:

There is a picture of Craig posing with a Cape eland bull taken with 300 grain Nosler Partition from .375 Weatherby at 200 yards.

There is a photo of Craig toting a .375 Weatherby on an arctic muskox hunt.

There is a photo of Craig posed with his .375 Weatherby A-Square rifle in .375 Weatherby leaned against a big nilgai: 300 grain Sierra GameKing.

There is a picture of Craig with a tiny pygmy antelope taken with .375 Weatherby, with only a tiny bullet hole on the shoulder showing as any damage: dik dik by solid?

There is a photo of Craig's uncle, Art Popham, from about 1955, with a >10 ft square Alaskan brown bear. Taken with a .375 Weatherby. "Popham was a friend and occasional hunting companion of Roy Weatherby's, and a staunch supporter of the Improved .375."

Loads by Craig, maybe for 24" barrel, maybe for 26" baerrel??? Not definitely stated, but implied to be 24" by text elsewhere in the article:

260 grain Nosler Partition
91 grains/AA4350
3000 fps

300 grain Sierra GameKing
85 grains/IMR 4350
2700 fps

300 grain Nosler Partition
Weatherby Factory
2800 fps

300 grain Sierra GameKing
87 grains/AA4350
2800 fps

Craig says AA4350 is better than IMR 4350 in the .375 Weatherby.

I did a comparison of 88 grains of the 3 different 4350's in a 25" barreled CZ 550 Magnum converted to .375 Weatherby, which allowed long COL of 3.750", for extra case capacity in effect, with the 300 grain Sierra GameKing at 44 degrees F:

88.0 grains/IMR-4350 >>> 2772 fps
88.0 grains/AA-4350 >>> 2804 fps
88.0 grains/H-4350 EXTREME >>> 2821 fps

The .375 Weatherby sure delivers the mail.

Rip: Very interesting information.I have always had good results with H 4350.Do you have any experience with the 375 JRS ? Do you know what Sundra had in mind by necking up the 8mm mag.?Seems like just another HH improved? Any benefit?

Problem is Boddington never saw a product or caliber he didn't like. Personally I find an objective evaluation more useful.

longshots,
You and I are using H4350 Extreme, eh?

In 1986, when I first tried H4350 in the .375 Weatherby, it was slower than IMR-4350. It was comparable to IMR-4831. This new "Extreme" H4350 is better stuff! It is probably the least temperature sensitive of all the powders available too.

Craig makes a point of describing the .375 Wby and the .375 Ackley Improved as being "interchangeable." This applies to load data and performance. The AI has a standard shoulder, the Wby has the double radiused venturi shoulder.

Jon Sundra's reasoning for his .375 JRS? He recognized the all-time best cartridge in the world, and wanted to recreate it with his name on it.

None of them offer any benefit over the .375 Weatherby. They just have different shoulders and minor differences in throat. All are "interchangeable" in load data and performance, and all can fire .375 H&H ammo in a pinch, to same adequate effect.

The .375 Weatherby was first, and has a new lease on life with factory produced ammo and properly headstamped brass, as revived in 2001 with the better throated new chamber.

I couldn't think of a good reason for the JRS.Getting your name on a cartridge; good idea.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Problem is Boddington never saw a product or caliber he didn't like. Personally I find an objective evaluation more useful.

500groans,
Always the sour puss. I call your comment BS in this case. Boddington has an abiding affection and lengthy experience with the .375 Weatherby. He is not pimping for Weatherby on this one. He was using both A-Square and Weatherby rifles here as well as talking up a custom rifle builder, Kerry O'Day, of Match Grade Arms, who has built "hundreds" of the various .375 Improved's.

This is mainly about the .375 Improved cartridges, and Craig's personal favorite of them: .375 Weatherby.

If I Recall Correctly, Craig said you were an incredible JERK.

500grains = 500groans = 500jerkoff. Always trolling, eh, 500jerkoff?

Rip,
I got my 375 Weatherby reamer in the Mail today (and sent out the check Mike!). The freebore is .67", so I will have Dave Kiff regrind it to the new factory specs while I await a pressure barrel. If you can come up with a snappy name for the new cartridge line I'll send you the first box of lawndart's own commercially loaded 375 Weatherby ammunition. Guess who gets boxes 2,3 & 4? Pride and honor is one thing, but commerce is entirely another.



lawndart

Oh yeah,
H-4350, and load it up to what will still give moderate pressures and great extraction at 120 degrees F.

dart

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Oh yeah,
H-4350, and load it up to what will still give moderate pressures and great extraction at 120 degrees F.

dart

Great! How about "Dead On Ammo" and the logo can be a skull and cross bones with the initials "DOA" on the skull's forehead. Brass can be headstamped DOA, or RIP.

If this is not good enough for you let me think a bit.

I tried to buy the .375 Weatherby reamer, but my smith insisted on buying it for himself to keep.

Freebore 0.3700" and leade 1 degree 2 minutes, as you know.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Well, I can see that Dr. Ron Berry (RIP) is sloshed again. But at least this is not one of those threads where he replies to his own post 3 or 4 times.

Now let me put the challenge to him: Ron, find an article where Boddington criticizes either a product or caliber. Go ahead.

Unless a writer objectively and truthfully evaluates what he writes about, his writing is not of much value.

500jerkoff,
What was that about loss of hospital privileges that you frivolously posted before hurriedly erasing it? Just your usual malicious, phoney, libelous, gutter-dwelling jerking off? That is stupid and weak. Pathetic.

Anytime I start to get your goat, you default to claiming that I am soused on booze. More of your pathetic, weak, gutter-dwelling jerking off.

I should turn you over my knee and spank you.

Weak! A JERK!!!

Craig Boddington was right! What an incredible jerk.

I think RIP is addicted to big bore guns instead of alcohol.

I hope Craig Boddington doesn't start criticizing products with mine .

I like having RIP and 500 at opposite ends in this forum. 500 is in touch with tradition and the demands of big bore etiquette; RIP has saved me untold thousands of dollars by performing big bore experiments before I even dream them up. He also got me hooked on the 375 Weatherby, which is what the 375 H&H would have been if adequate powders existed at the time.

If you keep the pressures sensible, the 375 Weatherby is a nearly perfect cartridge. Good, but not excessive, speed, moderate recoil and efficient thermodynamics. Any cartridge that works best with one of the 4350 powders is "Hotay" by me. It's pretty much good for whatever ails you.

I won't be sanctimonious and say "play nice" because I have said some intemperate, uncalled for and delightfully nasty things to and about some of my esteemed colleagues.

dart

Bigger case, more powder, higher velocity. It's a friggin miracle.

The only "problem" I see with the 375Weatherby is that the 375H&H continues to do what it was originally designed to do and do it well. What advantage does the 375Weatherby offer? If I wanted a better heavy game rifle, I'd up caliber and bullet weight, if I wanted a better reach out cartridge I'd shoot an 8mmRemMag... Not sure what's to be gained by going for the 375Weatherby.
Cheers...
Con

Con,
Yep, you got a point, but what if you wanted to carry one rifle that would cover both sides of that coin? The .375 Weatherby delivers like Saeed's .375/.404 and can still do a decent job with off the shelf .375 H&H ammo. That makes the .375 Weatherby the most versatile rifle extant.

As I recall C Boddington did not recommend the 378 Weatherby if you are looking for an example of a product he didn't like.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
As I recall C Boddington did not recommend the 378 Weatherby if you are looking for an example of a product he didn't like.

Mikelravy,
That's right. Maybe that will satisfy someone, whom I am trying to ignore.

RIP,

Take your personal battle with 500grains off-line.
DO NOT clutter up this forum with that trash.

George

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Craig used a 375 H&H, not Weatherby, in his latest video. Wonder why???

I've always thought the .375wby was a good idea, like RIP said, a very versatile, one rifle for Africa. Should I get mysekf a CZ/American/laminate, I may just have to have it rechambered.

quote:

Bigger case, more powder, higher velocity. It's a friggin miracle

Just enough bigger, just enough more powder, just enough more velocity - those characteristics were a happy accident of development. The miracle is that the better round was revived after so many years of only having the excessive round (378 WBY) readily available. When I say my evening prayers I always thank God for making a world in which velcro, duct tape and thermos bottles exist. I will henceforth add the 375 WBY to my list.

lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Craig used a 375 H&H, not Weatherby, in his latest video. Wonder why???

I'm thinking it may have had something to do with mass appeal and re-sale value. If I am not mistaken, the rifle was built for that hunt only by one of the sponsors (Dakota) and was raffled off to a lucky video purchaser. In other words, CTB just used it for the one trip and it was not intended for his gun safe (where he probably has all the 375 Weatherby's he needs anyway!).

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Yep, you got a point, but what if you wanted to carry one rifle that would cover both sides of that coin?

But RIP, who of us wants to carry just ONE GUN?

But if I had to and the "coin" you mentioned above is a "Buffalo nickel", then I would opt for a .416 Remington Mag in a like gun or a .416 Rigby if more of a purist.

For the "Indian" one could use the Woodleigh 340gr Protected point and lose little in trajectory in African conditions; nothing most on this board couldn't handle I'm sure. Even this 340gr has plenty of "Moe" (Mo/XSA) that we have beat to death! And even more "TFA" than a .375.....something we have as yet even talked about!
Now if that "coin" flipped over for me at least, well, I would have much more comfort with those .416 400gr softs and solids even knowing I may do as well with the lesser .375 in any configuration. I don't like my thrills to get too close!

BigRx

BigRx,
Of course. One should have a.416 or .404 as second fiddle to a do-all .375 Wby.

Third fiddle is a .458 or .470.

Fourth fiddle a .50.

First Violin will always be .375 Wby.

George S,
This is Bolt Action Trash Time. Has someone come crying to mummy? AMF YOYO to whom it may concern.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
George S,
This is Bolt Action Trash Time. Has someone come crying to mummy? AMF YOYO to whom it may concern.

No, no one has been 'crying to mummy'. My preference is that people take their squabbles elsewhere, and not clutter up the forum with crap such as you're spreading.

You can maintain some dignity by knocking it off, or you can join the ranks of assholes who use this site, provided FREE OF CHARGE by our host I might add, to foment discord and attack other Members.

Your choice.

George

Why can't we all just get along ?

In a nutshell, the 375 Wby gives you all that a 375 H&H gives but with wider loading flexibility.

It also adds a nice amount velocity, in fact it basically matches the 338 Winchester in terms of velocity for the same sectional density bullets.

I might add that after having lived with 375 H&Hs for about 30 years and Oehler Chronographs since the early paper screen models, many of the 375 H&H velocities show on this site are obviously the result of Chronys being used.

Remove Reloader 15 from the list and the 375 H&H was and is a victim of powders that are either too fast or too slow for it.

Mike

Mike,
Does the 375Weatherby respond better to the available powders? Out of interest how much better are your loads with Reloader 15 compared to AR2209/08 or W760 with a 300gr projectile?
Cheers...
Con

George, George, George,

If posters only want a circle-jerk, and no opposing opinions, they shouldn't post any discussions.

You're right, Will. Maybe we should add a 'One-sided Argument' forum, where everyone gets to start a thread, post their say, then lock the thread to permit no opposing viewpoints.

George

I am onside with George.

There are more polite, diplomatic ways of dealing with (or ignoring) unsavoury posts.

I love the topic thread- 375 Weatherby is where I am going; however, I must agree with George that the words written between RIP and 500 Grains do not belong here at all. I think 500 grains even instigated something else on a Carmello thread a couple days ago.

Let's live and let live and share MUTUAL RESPECT and have INTELLIGENT DEBATES or DISCUSSIONS and not lower ourselves to 'American' standards. Oops, I forgot that you guys are American

Have a super day!

Con,

Re 15 will get 2600 with 300s in 26 inch Tobler barrel so I guess 2550 plus in a 24 inch. That was 73 grains and 76 grains did 2800 plus with 270 Hornadies.

2209, 2208, 4350, 760, 4064 all have the job in front of then to reach 2500 with 300 grainers

Although with very compressed loads and 300 Hornady round nose I have had 2600 from M70 24 inch factory and 82 grains of IMR 4350 and that ws using neck size brass so as to get the owder in. Our later batchs of 2209 are more like IMR 4831 burn rate and you would need about 84 grains. However, RIP has told me the latest H4350 he has bought is at about IMR 4350 burn rate and H4350 is 2209 but th Hodgdon seems to get the latest before we do. 2209 is is a bit denser than IMR 4350 so that would make it better.

With 760 in my experience peak accuracy is around 78 grains with 300s and 81-83 with 270 grainers and those loads are in usually in the mid 2400s for 300s and mid 2600s for the 270 grainers.

In a nutshell, the 385 Wby or any 375 Improved picks up the 4350 burn rate.

RIP has mentioned quite a few times not to have a 375 chambered with the old 375 Wby reamer which carries the .75 freebore. However, if the feebore is tight that feebore is no problem but where it would come against you is that 4350 would now become less than ideal.

The .75 freebore is worth quite a few grains of powder and that is seen when working with the 378, 416 and 460 Wbys. The 378 and 460 both have the .75 but the 416 is about .3 or so. If you take top loads in the 416 Wby then they indicate that a 378 Wby or to top out at about 112 grains of Re22 or 2213 with 270 grainers but in reality it will go up to about 118 grains.

Actually, if you had a 375 H&H with the .75 freebore then the 4064, 4895, 2208 etc burn rate would probably be ideal. But if you fired a 375 H&H factory load in such a chamber the bullet would probably drop out the end of the barrel and roll along the ground

All the Wbys now have a freebore of about 3/8" except the 378 and 460 and my guess is the 378 and 460 have remained at the .75 for powder suitability.

Just as a side note and in terms of accuracy, Wby freebore is not like seating a bullet deeper in a conventional chambered rifle.

Mike

Con,

PS

Tobler has a bunch of Wby reamers but they are old Clymers. A mate of mine had a Number 5 barrel done in 270 Wby and about the same time I had a 270 Wby Synthetic Stainless when the first Made in USA rifles came to Australia. The factory rifle shot like a dream and my mates was not real good at all. I bedded and floated both rifles and my mate obviously had a much better barrel and also heavier. But you can bet that Clymer cut a freebore section too big in diameter.

Mike

500,

I did see one the other day where he tested one of the Empire rifles in the smaller calibres and was a bit disappointed in the accuracy.

Quite some years ago, before Rigby moved, he had Rigby making him a 450 Rigby on the Noreen action and reported a crack in the Noreen action.

From time to time he has given what could only be considered the most limited of praise to the 30/378 and 378 Wbys.

I think he is like most gun writers and if something is a piece of shit then it probably does not make the pages.

Also remember that by default, singing praises to the high heavens on one product indirectly criticises other products of the same nature.

500, you do appear to have a fixation on Boddington, Remingtons and Weatherbys as being all bad.

Mike

I have been frustrated for quite a while over my .375 AI. The cases thin and weaken at the expansion web when .375 H&H's are fireformed in it's chamber.

I was considering making brass from .416 Rems as that would make them fit at the shoulder. It's impossible to have any known bullet reach the lands even if seated backwards for fireforming.

Now it's finally occured to me that the chamber may accept the .375 Weatherby? If it does then I can call it that. The barrel has never been stamped with any cartridge designation.

I can tell you that the 375 AI kicks harder than a .375 H&H.

Savage,

Why not run a 416 expander plug through the cases first and then resize to crush fit or whatever number of thous clearance you want.

By the way, 375 Wby brass is pricy, sort of 378 type pricing rather than 300 and 340 type pricing.

It is my belief that the 375 Wby is not chambered in the low end Wbys because Wby sees people buying it instead of the 340 and then going down the road to buy Winchester 375 brass.

Mike

The issue is that of a nattering naybob of negativism just piling onto Craig Boddington's character instead of discussing the .375 Weatherby merit or lack of. Craig Boddington has passed judgement on this "incredible jerk" in his own words.

500groans, you ain't worth the time.

500,

But I think his recommendations do mean something because if it is no good it does not get a recommendation. I really can't see much difference between Boddington and other gun writers.

The Remington bolt hand is not something that inspires great condfidence.

But with a HS Precision in line feed magazine and in 416 Rem with flat nose bullets or 458 I would back the Rem 700 at getting cartridges into and back of the chamber over any staggered feed M70/Mauser.

Having said that, I don't personally like Rem 700s except for "glue ins" because you can get the trigger out without ungluing the rifle and the round action is easier to unglue than the M70 type action.

On bolt handles, Bill Leeper mentioned on a thread a while a go that he has seen a couple of M70 bolt handles rotate because they are no long splined on but pressed on to a knurled surfaces.

Mike

Ron,

I have seen 500nitro rip into CB reputation before on various boards and I did not like it one bit...However in this particular case I think he has a point. If a gunwriter never appears to be critical of products what good is his endorsement?

I think thats a legitimate comment concerning a lot of writes not just CB; in fact I would say that CB is better than many, but I still wonder what his true opinion is sometimes. I suspect Mike hit the nail on the head on how the system works, but I would prefer to see proper constructive crititism from time to time...

regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
George S,
This is Bolt Action Trash Time. Has someone come crying to mummy? AMF YOYO to whom it may concern.

No, no one has been 'crying to mummy'. My preference is that people take their squabbles elsewhere, and not clutter up the forum with crap such as you're spreading.

You can maintain some dignity by knocking it off, or you can join the ranks of assholes who use this site, provided FREE OF CHARGE by our host I might add, to foment discord and attack other Members.

Your choice.

George

George,
Note that 500groans launched down the personal attack route first in this thread.

When one wrestles with a pig, one gets dirty. Dirty for a just cause is O.K. Think of Dirty Harry.

quote:

George,
Note that 500groans launched down the personal attack route first in this thread.

Oh, really?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Problem is Boddington never saw a product or caliber he didn't like. Personally I find an objective evaluation more useful.

500groans,
Always the sour puss. I call your comment BS in this case. Boddington has an abiding affection and lengthy experience with the .375 Weatherby. He is not pimping for Weatherby on this one. He was using both A-Square and Weatherby rifles here as well as talking up a custom rifle builder, Kerry O'Day, of Match Grade Arms, who has built "hundreds" of the various .375 Improved's.

This is mainly about the .375 Improved cartridges, and Craig's personal favorite of them: .375 Weatherby.

If I Recall Correctly, Craig said you were an incredible JERK.

500grains = 500groans = 500jerkoff. Always trolling, eh, 500jerkoff?

Does the above sound familiar? You lobbed the first personal attack. I asked you privately to consider deleting it before the thread deteriorated, and you refused.

You have a lot of good posts to your credit, but in this one, it's obvious that you're not interested in a discussion, you want a pissing match.

Take it off-line. The rest of us DON'T want to hear it.

George