I've been following the big bore forum for a while, and although there are .458 Win Mag discussions ad nauseum, you don't see much discussion about the venerable .470 NE.

Is that caliber to blase for this crowd?

Just wondering.

BH63

I've got a .470 NE by Searcy. It's a Rising Bite with color case and Rose and Scroll engraving. I absolutely love it. Very pleasant to shoot off the bench. When the weather warms up and the snow disappears, I'm going to work up a load with the CEB's for it.

Not much to say and only a fool would speak poorly of its killing power..Its only downside may be recoil with some folks, and that's the only reason not to use one that I can see....

I think its a bit recoily but never noticed it on shooting buffalo and Hippo!

Still, I prefer a 450-400, that's not as good a hammer, but it works well enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
I've been following the big bore forum for a while, and although there are .458 Win Mag discussions ad nauseum, you don't see much discussion about the venerable .470 NE.

Is that caliber to blase for this crowd?

Just wondering.

BH63

Because it flat out works,it's easy to load for & is so non controversial that it's almost boring to talk about ,I will have mine for a long time yet

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
... although there are .458 Win Mag discussions ad nauseum, you don't see much discussion about the venerable .470 NE ...
BH63

Sir, I resemble those remarks.
Stay tuned for at least 459 pages on the .458 Winchester Magnum.
That champion usurped the 470 NE double rifle, it is true,
and is even better now with modern powders and bullets.
It's better than the SAAMI .458 Lott if both are used in 3.6"-magazined rifles
with 450-grain through 600-grain bullets.
Any bad news about the .458 WIN is fake news.

The 470 NE is adequate of course.
George Hoffman used it as his DR.
A no-filler charge of H4831
with any 500-grainer is perfect, per George Hoffman.
That is how I load my Merkel DR.
I am wanting a Ruger No.1 in 470 NE as companion.
The rimless 470 Mbogo can also be used as a 470 NE load duplicator.
Same case capacity.

Rip ...

470NE?

It's the 500NE's little sister.

One of the best things about the 470 nitro express is the long neck. A long neck on a cartridge is like long legs on a beautiful woman. It makes for shooting cast bullets a dream.

Cordite anyone?

quote:

470NE?

It's the 500NE's little sister.

THIS!!!

Then my .475's are the Sports Illustrated models, Boom Stick!

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

quote:

470NE?

It's the 500NE's little sister.

THIS!!!

The 500NE is for you if you have something to prove

Remember that Winchester made and MARKETED the .458 Win Mag to the American public.

IMHO, An actual count of calibers greater than or equal to .458 would show the .458 Win Mag way out front. The .308 and .458 may have something in common: so successful and widely used as to be of little interest to the shooter wanting something different.
PS My go to medium caliber is .308 and my "elephant gun" is .458. "Don't kick a winner" .

BuffHunter63:To answer your original question. Why no topics or discussion here on the Big Bore Section of the 470 NE? Because the 470 NE has usually been discussed under the Double Rifles Section.

That and the fact that no one with a .470 really feels the need to play games with trying to make it into a .460 Weatherby wannabe by loading it such that you are required to make it a single loader, etc.

It works, its got enough case capacity that finding a powder that fits is no issue, its got very good bullet selection, etc. All within its SAAMI spec range.

Given that its mostly chambered in double rifles, no one seems to feel the need to make it into a 800 yard sniper gun.

Some of the protestors would probably be better off to just get a .470 or a factory .458 and just hunt with it rather than spend all that money fiddling around with long loading, odd twist rates, etc.

The .470 works.

The .458 WM was developed to duplicate it in a magazine rifle.

The factory .458 WM works.

Anything else is PII (preoccupation with insignificant increments...)

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

The .470 works.

The .458 WM was developed to duplicate it in a magazine rifle.

Then came the 470 Capstick, which duplicated it even closer in a magazine rifle!

1.Low pressure
2.Ammo availablitity in Africa and elsewhere
3.Reloading components easy to come by
4.Plenty power (although a .500 may be better for ele)

The 470 is ubiquitous, which lends itself to being boring...Now the 470 Creedmore...

I think the problem is that it must be against the law to have it in a bolt rifle or a Blaser.
If it were in a Blaser, that would be a thing of beauty! They would sell out fast and the double rifle business would collapse....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think the problem is that it must be against the law to have it in a bolt rifle or a Blaser.
I f it were in a Blaser, that would be a thing of beauty! They would sell out fast and the double rifle business would collapse....

NOT!!

A proper double rifle is a thing of beauty, form, and function.



Blaser on the other hand is pure

I thought a 458 Winchester magnum was made to duplicate
450 nitro Express?

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
I thought a 458 Winchester magnum was made to duplicate
450 nitro Express?

It was but the 470NE is the same class, being roughly a 480 to 510 gr. bullet at 2,150 fps.

[quote]A proper double rifle is a thing of beauty, form, and function.

Unless, of course, you need to actually hit something with it :-)

(Now I sit back and wait for the story of you shooting a running Duiker at 450 yards with your 9.3x74 double!)

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think the problem is that it must be against the law to have it in a bolt rifle or a Blaser.
If it were in a Blaser, that would be a thing of beauty! They would sell out fast and the double rifle business would collapse....

You need to look at the Blaser S2.

There is your "thing of beauty"

I hold no shares of any company selling eye bleach, so I have no conflict of interest!

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
BuffHunter63:To answer your original question. Why no topics or discussion here on the Big Bore Section of the 470 NE? Because the 470 NE has usually been discussed under the Double Rifles Section.

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:


(Now I sit back and wait for the story of you shooting a running Duiker at 450 yards with your 9.3x74 double!)

Video posted here somewhere about 5 years back!!

I have a friend ( i know some you dont belive me already), he went on a elephant culling hunt about seven years ago. After the trip he told me how he shot 1 elephant with his 470 ne and 31 with his back up 375h&h. Afterwards he is a much bigger fan of a 375h&h than a 470ne.

If I ever had a spare 10 grand lying around, a nice double in .470NE would certainly be my purchase for a "big bore" double rifle.

Anything more, is overkill IMO.

BH63

Richard Tabor told me he liked his 470NE.

A "Fuddite" is akin to a Luddite.
The Fuddite is one who thinks the .458 Winchester Magnum is not capable of outdoing the .458 Lott and should always be limited to 3.340" COL.
Think fuddy-duddy Elmer Fudd.

Too funny about the .470 NE being discussed extensively in the Double Rifle forum instaed of the Big Bore forum.

I do love the .470 NE.
But we all know that this thread was started here to malign the "wildcatting" of the .458 WIN which is done all within the confines of a SAAMI chamber with SAAMI brass.

I appreciate the many responses above, both serious and humorous.
Soon as I get through doing hospital-baby-sitting duty I will have lots more fun reading and writing here.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Richard Tabor told me he liked his 470NE.

Funny.

Rich told me he didn’t like his 470NE and would prefer a 500NE but availability in Africa being what it was, he had a 470.

I think what he did say was that he likes his rifle which is a Kreighoff but not the 470 caliber.

Maybe he’ll chime in.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A "Fuddite" is akin to a Luddite.
The Fuddite is one who thinks the .458 Winchester Magnum is not capable of outdoing the .458 Lott and should always be limited to 3.340" COL.
Think fuddy-duddy Elmer Fudd.

Too funny about the .470 NE being discussed extensively in the Double Rifle forum instaed of the Big Bore forum.

I do love the .470 NE.
But we all know that this thread was started here to malign the "wildcatting" of the .458 WIN which is done all within the confines of a SAAMI chamber with SAAMI brass.

I appreciate the many responses above, both serious and humorous.
Soon as I get through doing hospital-baby-sitting duty I will have lots more fun reading and writing here.

Rip ...

Oh for pete’s sake.

The .458 win is a great hunting round. It works as is.

It has less powder space in its SAAMI spec loading, so it’s not as fast as the Lott in its SAAMI spec loading. Any incremental improvement in a .458 win by long loading it can be duplicated in a Lott to a higher level than the win mag. Compare apples to apples. The argument rightly is, does the extra 50-100 FPS make any practical difference in hunting applications?

As I recall, the time you went with Saeed to Tanzania, you didn’t use a .458 WM of any sort, and now you are preaching how it’s the one answer, only if one does all kinds of legerdemain with it?

I would happily hunt elephant with a factory .458 WM. I would happily hunt elephant (and have done so) with a .470. There is no way I would even consider hunting elephant with your single feed requiring long loaded win mag rounds and then using longer loaded mag box loads for the back up shots. Having different length ammo at the same time is asking for a CF to happen.

The factory .458 load has historically shown it is a good stopper, with Jack Lott’s issue being a factory ammo QC problem. If you want to be more pointed, all a Lott is is what you want to make a win mag into. It just isn’t necessary, and you would be way ahead to just get whichever one you want and go hunting elephant 2-3 times rather than fiddling with PII on multiple rifles and spending the money there instead of on daily rates and trophy fees...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A "Fuddite" is akin to a Luddite.
The Fuddite is one who thinks the .458 Winchester Magnum is not capable of outdoing the .458 Lott and should always be limited to 3.340" COL.
Think fuddy-duddy Elmer Fudd.

Too funny about the .470 NE being discussed extensively in the Double Rifle forum instaed of the Big Bore forum.

I do love the .470 NE.
But we all know that this thread was started here to malign the "wildcatting" of the .458 WIN which is done all within the confines of a SAAMI chamber with SAAMI brass.

I appreciate the many responses above, both serious and humorous.
Soon as I get through doing hospital-baby-sitting duty I will have lots more fun reading and writing here.

Rip ...

Oh for pete’s sake.

The .458 win is a great hunting round. It works as is.

It has less powder space in its SAAMI spec loading, so it’s not as fast as the Lott in its SAAMI spec loading. Any incremental improvement in a .458 win by long loading it can be duplicated in a Lott to a higher level than the win mag. Compare apples to apples. The argument rightly is, does the extra 50-100 FPS make any practical difference in hunting applications?

As I recall, the time you went with Saeed to Tanzania, you didn’t use a .458 WM of any sort, and now you are preaching how it’s the one answer, only if one does all kinds of legerdemain with it?

I would happily hunt elephant with a factory .458 WM. I would happily hunt elephant (and have done so) with a .470. There is no way I would even consider hunting elephant with your single feed requiring long loaded win mag rounds and then using longer loaded mag box loads for the back up shots. Having different length ammo at the same time is asking for a CF to happen.

The factory .458 load has historically shown it is a good stopper, with Jack Lott’s issue being a factory ammo QC problem. If you want to be more pointed, all a Lott is is what you want to make a win mag into. It just isn’t necessary, and you would be way ahead to just get whichever one you want and go hunting elephant 2-3 times rather than fiddling with PII on multiple rifles and spending the money there instead of on daily rates and trophy fees...

I am all for RIP having his fun, but you make some excellent points: nothing wrong with a .458 WM as is - making it a Lott is like making a .308 Win a .30-06 - if you don't like the .308 just get the .06 - but you won't see a practical diff. Move up to a 300 RUM, and you are talking a different story - maybe like a .470 or 500 NE.

Jim Carmichel used the .458 WM extensively n Africa and never found it lacking. I think he shot 80 or so buff with it, mostly on cull hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I think the problem is that it must be against the law to have it in a bolt rifle or a Blaser.
If it were in a Blaser, that would be a thing of beauty! They would sell out fast and the double rifle business would collapse....

+1

Blaser does not waste it’s time with irrelevant calibers (470, 458 win) and makes a proper 458 Lott and 500 Jefferies

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Richard Tabor told me he liked his 470NE.

Funny.

Rich told me he didn’t like his 470NE and would prefer a 500NE but availability in Africa being what it was, he had a 470.

I think what he did say was that he likes his rifle which is a Kreighoff but not the 470 caliber.

Maybe he’ll chime in.

I told him I got a 450NE and he asked me why I didn't get a 470NE.I said I don't know and asked him how is the 470NE.He said that it is awesome.So I figured he liked it.I am sure he likes the 500NE even better.He has praised the 500NE many times.I think that if he did not get rid of the 470NE back then when he went to work in the mines in Zambia,he might have still had it.As for the Krieghoff he didn't hate it but he would not choose it over a Heym or a VC.

Typical Luddite, Fuddite or whatever hypocrisy at play when it comes to old doubles !

470 ? Kills like a hot damn, no argument , many have earned the T shirt done and dusted. Owned one once, a Victor Saresquetta with a "lazy" chamber had to carry a mechano rod in my shirt pocket to drop down the spout to knock the sticky brass out after firing

BUT !!!!! and here is the hypocrisy ! at the top of the big bore section we have the 100 plus pages ( and counting exalting the FN bullet, the semi-fragmenting bullet and damming ( to hell and beyond ) the RN bullet !

But not one peep about the fact that the 470 for all its virtue as a killer came loaded with a parabola shaped ogival FMJ bullet with its CG set way back causing it to tumble in target !

Yes and we have evidence of this from numerous gun gods ! Including the great Taylor himself !



now if you were to have mentioned that you wanted to shoot that shaped bullet from some or other out of spec 458 or similar you would be crucified and banned to hell !

So sadly I do not have access to the aero ballistics data like Position of CG , transverse and longitudinal moments of inertia of the original 470 FMJ bullet but my suspicion is that what many saw and alluded to was because in its original form, shape and weight the geometry of the 475 bullet set itself up for this propensity to tumble, more so than some of the other classics ..... even though it may not be evident it still kills and in ballistics gelatine would penetrate up to 29 inches tumbling and all !

load it with a FN it will penetrate 5 ft ( 60 inches plus)

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A "Fuddite" is akin to a Luddite.
The Fuddite is one who thinks the .458 Winchester Magnum is not capable of outdoing the .458 Lott and should always be limited to 3.340" COL.
Think fuddy-duddy Elmer Fudd.

Too funny about the .470 NE being discussed extensively in the Double Rifle forum instaed of the Big Bore forum.

I do love the .470 NE.
But we all know that this thread was started here to malign the "wildcatting" of the .458 WIN which is done all within the confines of a SAAMI chamber with SAAMI brass.

I appreciate the many responses above, both serious and humorous.
Soon as I get through doing hospital-baby-sitting duty I will have lots more fun reading and writing here.

Rip ...

Oh for pete’s sake.

The .458 win is a great hunting round. It works as is.

Sure does. Nowadays it is capable of 2200 fps with select 500-grainers within SAAMI specs.

It has less powder space in its SAAMI spec loading, so it’s not as fast as the Lott in its SAAMI spec loading.

Well of course!
But give credit to the SAAMI .458 WIN getting to within 50 fps of the .458 Lott using same 500-grain bullet at SAAMI specs.
I.E., the .458 WIN operating at 60,000 psi/3.340" COL and the .458 Lott operating at 62,500 psi/3.600".
If the .458 WIN is loaded to non-SAAMI 62,500 psi/3.600" with same 500-grain bullet, it can exceed the .458 Lott velocity.
Or you can equal the .458 Lott velocity at lower pressure with the .458 WIN.
It is all due to the H&H-style coned-up throat of the .458 WIN.
Use them both in the same Winchester M70 H&H-length action and the .458 WIN wins.

Any incremental improvement in a .458 win by long loading it can be duplicated in a Lott to a higher level than the win mag.

That is poppycock.
When both are loaded to 3.6" length, the .458 WIN throat creates effective extra case capacity and/or pressure lowering. The .458 WIN wins.
The .458 Lott cannot even be loaded as long in COL with the 500-grain TSX as with the .458 WIN, when you move up in length to the 3.8" CZ 550 Magnum box.
The .458 WIN throat engulfs the .458 Lott throat if the chambers are superimposed, from breech face to end of leade.
And what a LEADE it is! The .458 WIN wins by a LEADE from start to finish.
The .458 WIN throat is all LEADE.
Simply marvelous how well that long and gradually tapering leade works with both SAAMI COL and LongCOL.

Compare apples to apples.

I wish you would.

500-grainer velocities:

SAAMI .458 WIN: 2200 fps

SAAMI .458 Lott: 2250 fps

Non-SAAMI .458 WIN LongCOL: +2300 fps

How do you like those two apples and one orange?

The argument rightly is, does the extra 50-100 FPS make any practical difference in hunting applications?

Only for enlightenment of the dark recesses where the cockroaches of ignorance dwell.

As I recall, the time you went with Saeed to Tanzania, you didn’t use a .458 WM of any sort, and now you are preaching how it’s the one answer, only if one does all kinds of legerdemain with it?

Hell man! I was ignorant then. And I have lots of guns to blood, runs into the hundreds, and over 2 dozen of my own wildcats.
Can you not forgive me for drawing first blood ever with a .500 Mbogo?
And first African blood ever with a .395 Tatanka?
I have been shooting, hunting, and drooling over firearms techniciana for over half a century.
Now that the cockroaches of my ignorance have scurried away,
I champion the .458 WIN, both SAAMI and non-SAAMI, to counteract the Commercial Industrial Complex (CIC) conspiracy of fake news against it.

I would happily hunt elephant with a factory .458 WM. I would happily hunt elephant (and have done so) with a .470. There is no way I would even consider hunting elephant with your single feed requiring long loaded win mag rounds and then using longer loaded mag box loads for the back up shots. Having different length ammo at the same time is asking for a CF to happen.

Well, at least you show SOME common sense.
I have never advocated using "single feed" excessively long ammo for elephant hunting.
That is more of your poppycock.
Save the single-loaders for longer range needs at non-dangerous game,
and just for kicks.
An example of what I like is to use the 400-grain GSC HV loaded to +2500 fps at only 3.395" COL NON-SAAMI.
That works through the Magazine of a Ruger M77 Hawkeye with +3.4" box (about 3.42"),
or you can single-load them to protect the delicate, spitzer hollow points from battering in the magazine box.
Carry those on your belt or buttstock ammo-carrier and single-load over a magazine box full of SAAMI-COL 450-grain FN solids of brass or copper
with velocity of about 2350 fps for close-range backup if the SHTF.
Those will do anything needing doing by a solid.
Any 500-grainer in the .458 WIN will beat a 500-grainer in a .458 Lott if limited to 3.6" box.
No mixing of COL specs in the magazine, or single loading.
Similarly, a magazine box full of 450-grain TSX at 3.680" COL is simply marvelous in a CZ 550 Magnum at 2450 fps MV.
Ditto the 500-grain TSX at 3.780" COL at +2300 fps.

The factory .458 load has historically shown it is a good stopper, with Jack Lott’s issue being a factory ammo QC problem.

No, it was just bad shooting on Jack's part, he admits, if you ever read the original account circa 1959.
There are other episodes of bad factory QC, greatly exaggerated by the CIC conspiracy.

If you want to be more pointed, all a Lott is is what you want to make a win mag into.

Note: I do not want "to be more pointed," whatever that means!
Also note: The .458 WIN can be more than the equal of the .458 Lott.

It just isn’t necessary,

Spoken like a true Fuddite!
Not everything in this world is necessary.
Being "crazy" about something is very important for human happiness.

and you would be way ahead to just get whichever one you want and go hunting elephant 2-3 times

One must be allowed to choose one's own craziness.
To each his own craziness, otherwise it is just insanity dictated by another whacko.

rather than fiddling with PII on multiple rifles and spending the money there instead of on daily rates and trophy fees...

Again, spoken like a true FUDDITE.
There are car guys and there are rifle guys, and sometimes there are car and rifle guys, who if of any consequence in either endeavor,
are very wealthy. Some blokes are just elephant guys.

I am all for RIP having his fun, but you make some excellent points: nothing wrong with a .458 WM as is - making it a Lott is like making a .308 Win a .30-06 - if you don't like the .308 just get the .06 - but you won't see a practical diff. Move up to a 300 RUM, and you are talking a different story - maybe like a .470 or 500 NE.

Again, this ignores the fact that the .458 WIN LongCOL can exceed the SAAMI .458 Lott in foot-pounds of KE,
when both are used in the magazine rifle that most .458 Lotts are built on, with 3.6" box.
It can far exceed it in a 3.8" box with the long and heavy bullets. The .458 WIN LongCOL is the undeniable WINner.

Jim Carmichel used the .458 WM extensively n Africa and never found it lacking. I think he shot 80 or so buff with it, mostly on cull hunts.

Those last two sentences by AnotherAZWriter are the most informative words of the two posts copied here and commented upon by me, in red.
The rest is just kind of ho-hum or plain poppycock.

Rip ...

About the parabolic-shaped RN FMJ in the 470 NE early days:

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
... 470 ? Kills like a hot damn, no argument ...
... of the original 470 FMJ bullet but my suspicion is that what many saw and alluded to was because in its original form, shape and weight the geometry of the 475 bullet set itself up for this propensity to tumble, more so than some of the other classics ..... even though it may not be evident it still kills and in ballistics gelatine would penetrate up to 29 inches tumbling and all !

load it with a FN it will penetrate 5 ft ( 60 inches plus)

That is also an important 470 NE factoid.

Side-slap on the tail of the antique parabola-nosed FMJ bullet when passing through elephant skull might help keep it from veering until it got to brain.
Similar to passing through a stack of dry wooden boards.
No doubt it is a lousy penetrator in complex media with the old FMJ "solid."
Better when using the monometal FN solid.
Tumbling might make the RN solid a better killer for smaller game, but not cool for body shots on the big stuff.
I have hoarded mostly North Fork Flat Point and Cup Point solid 500-grainers, monometal copper.
The copper is shorter than brass FN of same weight, and shorter is more stable.
the GSC .475/500-gr FN is getting scarce but I have some of them too.

Rip ...

RIP, I could care less what you want to hunt with. I can understand wanting to use your guns to hunt with, and I can understand playing with rifles. What I don’t get is how you claim the .458 win mag is better than the Lott. (The reverse is of course equally true). Both kill large game equally well. The Lott is easier to make the desired velocity goal in its factory format, but there is no magic to 2300 FPS compared to 2150.

The apples to apples is if you make a win mag nonstandard, and a Lott nonstandard, the only constants to both is case size. The Lott is a little bigger, so if you lengthen the box on the WM, you lengthen the leade and throat on the other. More case size, more powder, more velocity.

What is the point of making a junior grade weatherby out of either? You want .460 weatherby ballistics, get that, or make a wildcat that does what you want.

I’m not accusing you of doing anything unsafe from the point of internal ballistics, but it is pointless. The effect of a 2300 FPS .458 is no different than a 2100 FPS one. Your drops are not very different, and truthfully, for hunting in Africa 2700 FPS isn’t going to change much- a buffalo is big, 2-3 inches difference in trajectory is minimal.

A Luddite refuses to utilize or believe in technology. It’s generally viewed as being insulting.

A fuddite is popularly an insulting term for hunters. Usually by gun guys who feel that the hunters should have the same interests as they do. (Seems to fit you, no?)

I fail to see where you terming someone either actually advances anything, other than insulting folks who don’t agree with you. Do you call Saeed either? He insists that a .375 is a more than adequate hunting rifle, and actually downloads his .375/404 to velocities pretty much identical to what I get from a .375 H&H using federal’s old high energy factory ammo. I guess he doesn’t see any real advantage to the extra couple hundred FPS, either. You opened the door to this by going on about how the long loaded .458 is a better hunting solution. It isn’t, it’s just different.

I’d find your whole point on the .458 WM more logical if you called it some sort of wildcat (which it is when you no longer utilize SAAMI COL or, presumably, pressures.)

crbutler,

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
RIP, I could care less what you want to hunt with.

Wrong!
You meant to say that you COULD NOT CARE LESS what I want to hunt with.
If, as you say, that you COULD CARE LESS what I want to hunt with,
that means that you care about what I hunt with.
If you do not care at all about what I hunt with,
then YOU COULD NOT CARE LESS what I want to hunt with.

This bit of intellectual weakness on your part, in communicating this simple idea, that you do not care about what I hunt with,
should make anyone of normal intelligence suspect the validity of the remainder of your reply.

If I got that wrong, then you really do care. Thanks.

As to the remainder of your latest reply: Again spoken like a true Fuddite.
(Note: Fuddite is capitalized as is Luddite, both derived from surnames, cartoon character or no.)

You speak falsely of the SAAMI .458 Lott with short throat.
What you say would only apply to the .458 Lott that Jack Lott originally built by rechambering .458 Winchester Magnum rifles without setting back the barrel,
leaving the remnant SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum leade,
staying off the belt recess and merely extending the chamber to accept brass of 2.800" length.
And that is the truth.

Don't worry, I am not totally obsessed with the .458 WIN LongCOL.
I just acquired a .416 WBY MkV DGR factory rifle.
Barrel is 24.25" long with the muzzle thread protector, 26.00" long with Accubrake installed.
Trigger is a serviceable, crisp 3.5#, right out of the box.
Dry/emtpy weight with thread protector installed is 8#12oz, two pounds lighter than my Ruger RSM Gen-II .416 Rigby!
Also the DGR is half a pound lighter than a CZ 550 Magnum .416 Rigby in Lux walnut stock
Unloaded weight of .416 Wby MkV DGR is 8#14oz with muzzle brake.
Muzzle hole diameter of brake is 0.456", about 0.020" too big.
Oh well, at least the extra 2 ounces will lighten the recoil with brake on.
It was built in 2015, probably the last of the DGR rifles from Weatherby with a Wisner-supplied Winchester African rear sight,
as in Pre-'64 M70 .458 Winchester Magnum,
that is why I had to have it.

OK, maybe I am totally obsessed with the .458 Winchester Magnum wildcatted to .458 WIN LongCOL.
I would happily call it the ".459 Winchester Increased Nitro"
if I had brass that said .459 WIN on the headstamp.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:


A Luddite refuses to utilize or believe in technology. It’s generally viewed as being insulting.

Speak for yourself Doc.

Some of us wear the Luddite badge with pride!!!

No paddle shift cars or Blaser thingyofabob contraptions need apply!!

Old guitars, stick shift sports cars, and double rifles rule!!!

All I know is my 458 Lott shoots 2250 FPS with 500 grainers out of 22” barrel with my factory ammo. And shoots right through buffalo. I would of been happy most likely with 458 win mag but I bought the CZ 550 used and with the action and mag size it seemed dumb not to ream it out. Works perfect. I assume with handloading I could get more than 2250. The federal ammo was listed as 2300 FPS out of 24” I’m assuming

That said my 470 nitro with 500 grainers goes 2125-50 depending on ammo 26” barrel. I am sure that will work just the same on DG haven't used it yet but looking forward to it