The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Most practical/value big game STOPPING cartridge?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| one of us |
. | |||
|
| one of us |
That is true, but isn't true of ALL large bore cartridges other than the .375 H&H? | |||
|
| one of us |
This could actually be another topic, but since it was brought up here I'm now curious... What are the most commonly found rounds found in shops in the RSA, Zim, etc? I don't mean in J'berg, but the smaller areas that do have shops where ammo can be found... Obviously .375 and 30-06 might be at or near the top of the list, what others? .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
|
one of us |
Much has been said about the felt recoil of the Lott. How does it compare to the 450 Dakota or Rigby? | |||
|
one of us |
Ray I agree with this, but your one of the guys that has me so stirred up on this 458 Lott. I am going elephant hunting next year and I read a thread in which you were saying how much better the 458 Lott is for heart and lung shots on ele. Now, more than likely I am going to be taking a heart and lung shot. I am not going to be a big fan of this head shot for me being a first timer. So which is it? I would rather stick with my .416 Rem, but I almost ordered a Lott as of today. Need Help on this one. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Lightning, Take the Lott. When you stand 20 feet from an elephant you will be glad for your choice of a bigger cartridge. | |||
|
| one of us |
500 I sent you a PM. | |||
|
| one of us |
500 gr: " When you stand 20 feet from an elephant you will be glad for your choice of a bigger cartridge. On what grounds do you make that statement ? Intuitively we assume that bigger is better not so but fact is you will kill the elephant as dead with the 375 or the 7mm or whatever as long as you hit the brain. I shot 3 with a Styer SSG rifle in 308 using standard SA defence force 147 gr mil hardball bullets. One shot one kill each time. A miss with the 458 Lott is a miss on a brain shot whilst a hit with a lowly 6.5 x 54 MS will drop the ele right where it stands. At 20 paces it is not what you hit him with it is where you hit him ! | |||
|
| One of Us |
My statement concerns the state of mind of the client. I predict that the typical client, when in close proximity to elephant, particularly spooked cows which trumpet and run about, may express a sentiment such as, "I sure am glad I brought this .458 Lott instead of my 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schoneauer." Hence my statement above. | |||
|
One of Us |
I realy like the 9.3x62, but when amongst a herd of cow ele in the jesse the 470NE feels o so good, and if a brain shot dosn't work the energy with these big pills should knock them about, may be enough to get your self out of trouble. | |||
|
| One of Us |
 After reading and re-reading your original post or question, there is only one answer in my opinion......NOI think that to add any other comment would be speculation and opinion, be it based on fact, fiction, personality or any other reasoning! Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are jsut better than others! Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yawn... boring post. If you are going to say no, then implied is your effort to state a better choice... Why do I always have to spell everything out??? GS | |||
|
| One of Us |
GS I am sorry you find my reply boring! The first sentence in your post is in the form of a specific question. The other four sentences are nothing more than ramblings of your opinions on topics that have nothing to do with the specific question asked in the first sentence. Granted, this is my observation and opinion as I see it!  If you feel that you have to spell everything out, maybe you shuold phrase your question differently or take a pole as to everyone's opinion.  Since you seem to want my opinion as to if a person has only one rifle to hunt everything with, and the 458 Lott is the caliber to do this, my answer is still NO ! In my opinion, if one is going to be limited to having one caliber of rifle to hunt everything, the 375 H&H is the hands down choice. In the hands of a good marksman, it will handle anything on earth, far smaller calibers have have been used far many years by many hunters to take everything Africa has to offer. Ammo is available everywhere. The recoil produced by the 375 H&H is managable by everyone. The plain and simple fact is that the 375 H&H has a long and proven track record!  I hope this answer has been more helpful to you. Mauser Rifle Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you, but, you didn't read the post carefully.   This is a stopping rifle, not a hunting rifle. I'm after a light, open sited rifle, to lug around in case a nasty decides I'm dinner. It's NOT a hunting rifle. I ALREADY HAVE A 375 H&H.I like lower pressure cartridges, like the Rigbys, .500 Jeff would be perfect, or 505 Gibbs. They get it done with 35K pressures. However, the costs are pretty prohibitive. Reloading is difficult, since it's hard to find a multi-stage press that works with the bigger cartridges. The bullets are more expensive, except for the 450 Rigby. The brass can be REALLY expensive. Finally, the rifles are twice what a Lott runs, due to the longer action, with the exception of the 416 Rigby. I'm talking CZ's as my choice here, since after reading Ganyana's articles about Professional hunters, his comments on rifle quality I took to heart. Also, since the Lott is becoming very popular with professional hunters, you should be able to find ammunition, and, I'm sure they will be forever greatful if you leave the rest of your ammo with them, on the way home. I've emailed Dillon, and, as another forum member said, some of the guys don't even know if their presses work on the 416 Rigby, but they do know about the 458 Lott. Haven't checked with RCBS yet... Also, I see no reason a Lott can't be loaded down to 2150-2200 fps with a 500 grain mono solid, out of a 26 inch barrel, and come up with some respectable reduction in recoil, by lowering pressure. Sorry for the misunderstanding. GS | |||
|
one of us |
GS, I too, missread your origenal post! After reading your last post, I agree the 458 LOTT is probably the best of all worlds for a pure STOPPER, that is easy to load, and to carry in the field! The low pressure idea goes along with my thinking on the LOTT. I duplicate the ballistics of the old 450NE 3 1/4"! With a 480 gr soft, and solid from Woodliegh, I load to 2150 fps. This gives you a very well ballanced cartridge in a under 10 lb package, that developes around your 38000K pressure target, and componants are easily obtainable, and cheap comparitively! With Iron sights, and a QD low powered scope, even loaded it will remain in the under 10.5 lbs class of rifle, and will stop anything you meet, with proper placement of the bullets. Nothing ever invented will stop everything with an off center hole punched in him, so up close that is a requirement no matter what you shoot! ...............458 LOTT..............  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
One of Us |
I think Ginger is prettier than Maryann...but how do you factor in cute...because Maryann is cuter then Ginger Is pretty the same as cute?...but what if you have a girl next door fetish...yeah but I always did like the Hollywood bimbo thing... Did you know Jack O'Connor was a closet 30-06 fan... This thread is....  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
GS When interpreted in this light, I agree with MacD37 100%. The 458 Lott is the logical choice. Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others! Mauser Rifle Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks. How does it kick with that 38k load? gs | |||
|
| one of us |
Sometimes there is more testosterone on the internet than their is in Popeyes spinach! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
Heck, I just ran the figures, and 480 at 2150 kicks about 62 ftlbs, and, it's got to be a slow kick, at 38k. My 375 H&H WBY rounds, 300's moving, have to be about 45-48 ftlbs, but, they snap. So, that's less then 20 % increase in recoil, using a Lott at 480's at 500. Ray, what kind of rounds were you using in the Lott, to get kicked so hard? 500's @ 2350? Speaking of which, what do you load your .470 at???? GS | |||
|
One of Us |
split the diference between the 375 and lott with the 416, distance and a semi stopper in one gun. if you only have plainsgame, 30-06 and let the p.h haul the big bad lott 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
I know I'm going to die in the next 20-40 years, and, I strongly suspect I'll outlive the 416 Remmington. That leaves the 416 Rigby, and, the loss of mag capacity, difficulties in reloading, cost of brass, etc. for a round that' smaller in diameter then the Lott, and way more expensive, put it out of the running. What's the difference between a 375 with a 300 grain bullet, and, a 458 Lott with a 300 grain bullet??? GS | |||
|
| One of Us |
   577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
the lott is a great round...just load it down to win mag specs and load up to its full potential when you are in the land of giants. although if you want cheap you are in the wrong sport. i say go for the best within reason and you will not regret it. if the 416 is what you realy want, go for it. like the judge said sell all you have but your soul and you will never regret it. doing it right once is a lot cheaper 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
|
| One of Us |
The 458 Lott is an excellent choice of several for a stopper. 465H&H | |||
|
| one of us |
I just use R22 and a 500 gr .416 bullet in my 416 Rem for 2250 fps. Recoil and pressure is the same as the Lott, but you guys need a 600 gr .458 bullet to get my sectional density and you can't use a powder that will get you 2000 fps...bore too big, usable case capacity too small. | |||
|
Moderator |
my point all along is yes, you can do lots of things... but some me another caliber of bigbore than has an 11cent practice bullet that can be used for non-danergous game hunting, too. rem 405s.... most practical was the question... a fella can train a LOT with a LOTT for 30 bucks of components jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| Moderator |
The 416 Remington isn't going to die or be killed off. It is also very easy to make brass for, if you can't buy enough of the real stuff to keep you shooting 30yrs from now. Best choice. News Flash...the 458 Lott is not a pleasant cartridge to shoot in rifles under 10.5 pounds, neither is a full house 458Win mag. If you think your 375 kicks pretty hard, you're in for a big surprise. Shoot one before buying, even at 2150fps those 500gr loads are not mild. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just to hijack your tread. Sorry. But is there a forum dedicated to Dobble rifles? | |||
|
One of Us |
For a HUNTING rifle, the .375 H&H is acceptable. But it is NOT a stopping rifle. If I were hunting in Africa, I'd prefer that my PH carry the stopper-he knows how to use it to best advantage! If I do my part with the .375, the stopper will never be fired..... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
|
one of us |
NitroExpress.Com forums | |||
|
| one of us |
Mine is a 458 winnie double O/U CZ 589. 22 inch bbls make it 35 inches LOA, and the long throat lets me seat out to 3.55" when I want to duplicate the Lott. | |||
|
Moderator |
After you get sufficient penetration, the only way to increase killing power is to increase bullet dia and weight. I would expect the 458 lott with 500's @ 2250 to kill better than a 416 w/ 500's @ 2250. I haven't personally loaded 600's in a 458 Lott, but believe it is fully capable of 2050-2100 fps with such bullets. Not alot of powder capacity, but enough. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
|
| one of us |
I would like to revise my first reply, I inserted my private views and that's not necessairly a correct response to your question...You specifectly stated "stopping rifle" The 458 Lott is the best stopping rifle out there from a practical point of view, without question, it as effective as any of the big bores for that purpose, has less recoil and barrel rise, yet the extra power needed to thump them and can be had in factory persuasion at a reasonable price, albiet it has more recoil than most will fess up to... I personally don't feel a need for it and the 40 calibers have served me well and come through in a pinch everytime.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| Moderator |
Sabot, Rob just rechambered his 458 o/u to lott... and it's inch'ish at 50 jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| one of us |
I think Surestrike and Jeffeoso been drinking Testosterone, but a little prune juice might get the BS out of them!!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
A wish not more! Even a 600NE does not stop charging eles with frontal brainshots! Read the stories of HAns Schomburgk! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Exactly! So take a 416Remmag/Rigby/ 500/416Flanged or a 450Dakota or 460Weathmag and you have a DGR with enough Penetration. Thats it what counts. So 9,3x64/375H&H are good choices ,too. | |||
|
one of us |
I would go for my Jeffery Triple Three double with 300 grains Softs and Solids | |||
|
one of us |
I'm about to finish my 1st 505 and frankly, I'd hate to carry it day in and day out as a guide or PH. The Lott can be had in a nice light carrying rifle and under the circumstances you set forth, the recoil will be about the only thing of the encounter you don't recall. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Most practical/value big game STOPPING cartridge?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia