I think you have to shoot my 700HE,
our 12GA FH, my 8GA FH to be in the "Big
Whomper Club". At least start with
577 belted Rich will have done. Ed

Phew...

I am glad whompers start at 577

The 550 GIBBS "SUPER-MAGNUM" was the first cartridridge that I had to learn to roll with or in other words go for the ride. It took my third shot with this magnificiant beast to hit the target with confirmation, as shooting the big-ones does take practice, thanks again Rich. Rodney.

Oh yeah, I shouldn't forget 470 AR and 450 ackley. I'm going to have to get on the stick to catch up to some of these guys.

TMc

Does my 8.5-lb .450 Ackley count?? I'm starting to feel woefully inadequate.......

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Thanks for the photos. We'll make sure Rich doesn't live these down.



You've got to work on your grip strength there, Rich.


What rifle is it that dumped its magazine?

George

What's the point of building something like this if you can't even hang onto it? What will it do that something more manageable like a .458 Lott won't do? It certainly won't kill them deader, especially, if you can't hit them in the first place. I don't get the point of super-heavy recoiling rifles. They are essentially useless in the field; build one heavy enough to be shootable and it's too heavy to carry, build it light enough to carry and recoil becomes a hindrance and quick follow-up shots are impossible. PHs hate it when clients show up with stuff like this. Do these exist merely for bragging rights and one upsmanship or is this rifle actually usable but hindered by poor technique in these photos?

The point?
Because you CAN .. the rifle was literally put together a week before, and those are the first loads .. it wound up being too light .. its like 10#, and would need a recoil tube and some lead shot to get it up to where it needs to be.

What's the biggest you've shot, in hunting trim?

and yeah, it DOES have a larger impact than a .458

You are new, and posting some pretty strong opinions .. that's fine, but expect some push back ..

I second "Because you CAN.."! I bought my .505 Gibbs because it was huge and have worked my way up into being able to shoot it accurately. If I ever go to Africa I will probably take my .416 Rigby but have never regretted the .505 purchase even one second!

I miss the days when someone built a rifle because it was chambered in either a ENORMOUS cartrodge or a cartridge so old it is almost lost to time and everyone at the range new why he did it and wanted one themselves. (While not big bore)...the CIII guy that would brag it only took them 10 years to get his French Chaucat MG to almost work right. Or the guy who would feed a belt fed at dusk so everyone could watch the nose cone turn white hot. The days of when the garage lathe home built muzzle loader stole the show because someone build it at home themself.

Sorry about my rant, but too many gun people just aren’t any fun anymore. Too all those who know what I am talking about I can only hope to shoot with you someday.

Cortes

I shot Rich's 550 and it not bad off hand, there was no pain involved.

I just put together a 505 Gibbs with scope it weighs about 12 lbs, At the hoot and shoot I had 20 extra rounds for the guys to shoot 140 grs of rl 25 535 gr Barnes at about 2150 fps.

All but one hit their water jug or the paper target with their shots off hand at 25 yards.
Every one who shot it made killing shots on buff size animals. Some have never shot a big bore before. If you can carry a 10 lb rifle you can carry a 12 you just need to train for it or have the hired help carry it.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
I just put together a 505 Gibbs with scope it weighs about 12 lbs, At the hoot and shoot I had 20 extra rounds for the guys to shoot 140 grs of rl 25 535 gr Barnes at about 2150 fps.

All but one hit their water jug or the paper target with their shots off hand at 25 yards.
Every one who shot it made killing shots on buff size animals. Some have never shot a big bore before. If you can carry a 10 lb rifle you can carry a 12 you just need to train for it or have the hired help carry it.

JD

i was aiming for the cap on the DWJ to make it more challenging
recoil wasn't bad but the triggergaurd slapped my finger & it was numb for about 10 minutes.
i need to shoot offhand more,i shouldn't have missed that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:

What's the point of building something like this if you can't even hang onto it? What will it do that something more manageable like a .458 Lott or .450 Dakota won't do? It certainly won't kill them deader, especially, if you can't hit them in the first place. I don't get the point of super-heavy recoiling rifles. They are essentially useless in the field; build one heavy enough to be shootable and it's too heavy to carry, build it light enough to carry and recoil becomes a hindrance and quick follow-up shots are impossible. PHs hate it when clients show up with stuff like this. Do these exist merely for bragging rights and one upsmanship or is this rifle actually usable but hindered by poor technique in these photos?

No need to assume any of that.
Some of us do just fine with these "super-heavy recoiling" rifles.

Some can have exceedingly quick follow-up shots with them. Wayne Jacobson comes to mind, but there are many others. I don't believe that "quick follow-up shots are impossible" applies to any of them, or to me, for that matter.

Some don't mind carrying 12-16lb big bore doubles on safari. I certainly didn't mind carrying my 11lb 600OK bolt gun as we trekked after Cape buffalo from before sunrise to well after sunset. So "heavy enough to be shootable, too heavy to carry" really doesn't apply here either.

My PH, our trackers and our game scouts had nothing but good things to say about my 600OK and Pop's 585AHR - after he saw us replace the bullseyes with holes at the test range before we went our for our buffalo. So no, I dont agree with "PHs hate it when clients show up with stuff like this."

Everyone is different in their abilities and sometimes the fun of these "shoots" is catching and posting people's gaffs. Those "Funniest Home Video" moments don't always reflect the very same people's abilities.

CCMDoc,

Are you seriously asserting that the chap in these snaps is in control of the rifle. This is just a gaff, as you say?



The days of professional ivory hunting and having a gunbearer to carry one's 16 lb .600 NE double are long gone. I stand by my assertion that most folks who have the really big stuff can't shoot them accurately nor can they carry them all day in tropical heat and still be fresh enough to place an accurate shot. Are there exceptions? Sure, but it is certainly not the rule. If weight in rifles were no issue companies like Ultra Light Arms would not have made a decent business over the years shaving ounces, let alone pounds, out of rifles. The rifles in question on this thread need to have enough weight to make them shootable which I maintain makes them too heavy for the vast majority to carry. No less an authority than John Taylor, an extremely fit and powerful man, expressed his concerns that the .577 and .600 NEs weighed too much and were too hard to handle, requiring a very above average physique and level of physical conditioning, thus limiting their practicality in actual field use. This from a man who spent close to 365 days a year in the bush. I suppose one can hunt with a 30 lb .50 BMG if one so chooses but is it practical?

I hear your words ... but, frankly, a 460 weatherby is HALF the recoil, before muzzle brake, of the 550 gibbs .. its hard to fathom 700gr at 2500 fps .. that's BMG terretory ... and if one hasn't done it, its hard to do ..

the HOWEVER is that Rich built it, designed it, and made it happen, soup to nuts on this cartridge ..

The gun is, or was, too light, and its a monster to shoot .. seperates teh men from the boys, so to speak

Yep, he took a beaten.. and kept on shooting .. more than I can say for most folks.

But, if you'd like and are anywhere in texas, I'll put a 550 express in your hands, merely 700gr at 2130 ... its an experience.

You are picking on a single instance, of a singel shooter, in a brand new round ... at MAX-blow-your-mind recoil ... you might take a lookat the rest of the 550 shooters, and how they handle it ..

you are really wearing on a single day, and good for you, you've found a fault to worry at.

fact is, its been done, and the 600 OK makes it look like a pop gun.

Jeffeosso,

I hear what you are saying and if this chap designed a new round and made it all happen then good for him, that's an accomplishment. I support guys building and shooting whatever they want, more power to them (pun intended ), I just question the practicality of some of these creations, but that's okay, I don't have to shoot them. If we all agreed the world would be a very boring place.

That was the rifle at 10 pounds with no brake or recoil reducer in place. We hadn't checkered it either.

Let us know whereabouts you live, and if it's within a day's drive from SW Idaho I will take the time to drive over and let you shoot it. The shoot was a final test of our fellow member Macifej's driving band solids. Read the entire story behind them.

Funny thing about you and your six posts here, three long time members have PM'ed me to ask why I am the focus of your posts. I just figured there were two possibilities:
1. You want to establish yourself by barking at one of the Big Dogs.
2. You're not up to the task of shooting really big bores, so you denigrate others who do...

Try going to you tube and typing in 550 Gibbs.
I's shooting it there with no issues. Got a recoil reducer in it. It does take some getting used to though.

Rich
DRSS

btw: all you need anywhere in the world, is a .375H&H and a PH with a double like my Searcy .470NE behind you. Big Bore rifles are like big boobs, the bigger the better.

I have video of us shooting the 550 without issue. The whomper loads were about 200 ft lbs of recoil and were fun to shoot. Big boom and fireball!!! The 550 can be loaded to whimper loads of about Lott level.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

Funny thing about you and your six posts here, three long time members have PM'ed me to ask why I am the focus of your posts. I just figured there were two possibilities:
1. You want to establish yourself by barking at one of the Big Dogs.
2. You're not up to the task of shooting really big bores, so you denigrate others who do...

Rich
DRSS

or...........

#3. I see you as an insecure egomaniac with low self esteem, who feels the need to post 15 threads about a three animal PG hunt in order to garner the maximum amount of attention for himself, and who is also a bully to boot. I also am well aware of your previous episode of hollow death threats so please spare me the dubious honor of becoming your next recipient. So now you are casting yourself as the victim?

Ciao,
Cortes

Cortes
you certainly are deciding to make a splash ... hope it works out for you.

Hmmm..he reminds me of me after a half quart of Jack Daniels.

That's why I limit myself to one-third quart at at a time these days.

Some suggested reading material:

"How to Win Friends and Influence People"


By Dale Carnegie

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:
I stand by my assertion that most folks who have the really big stuff can't shoot them accurately nor can they carry them all day in tropical heat and still be fresh enough to place an accurate shot.

This statement, I happen to agree with -- as for the balance of the tit-for-tat, I think I will sit this dance out.

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:
or...........

#3. I see you as an insecure egomaniac with low self esteem, who feels the need to post 15 threads about a three animal PG hunt in order to garner the maximum amount of attention for himself, and who is also a bully to boot. I also am well aware of your previous episode of hollow death threats so please spare me the dubious honor of becoming your next recipient. So now you are casting yourself as the victim?

You forgot, he's also a Marine. And some folks, Marines included, just like to have their brains beat senseless. (Hey, they're allowed. They didn't name it HOOT & SHOOT for nothing.) Since when does any one of these folks have to justify how practical his choice of weapon is? It sure looked to me like, at least some of them, had smiles on their faces. And unless they edited out the pics, no one got carried off in a litter. Men, men, men, men; manly men...woo who who, etc.

Just for the record, you couldn't pay me enough to pull the trigger on one of those behemoths. A man's got to know his limitations and mine is 400gr @ 2400fps.

Cortes, why did you join here?

Anyhoo here is some video of the same rifle being shot at a nominal velocity. I do make it look too easy though but I like shooting big guns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-fcgqT8QSU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnCqaHJSEc

Heck when I worked for a living. We would take customers on deer and elk trips. I found that a large number of the shooters that showed up with a 300 or 338Wmag couldn't shoot it. They would be heading for the truck before they pulled the trigger. Someone often a magazine told them they needed something that big. Every shooter should know his limits. Practice with anything makes the difference.

I have never been to africa, so take this FWIW.

I own most of my guns just for fun, plinking or (formal or informal)target shooting, small game hunting, etc... Some are very heavy and some are purely nostalgic and some are big bores. For serious hunting I maybe (maybe?) use 3 rifles and 2 shotguns. I could cut this in half if not for all the state regs.

Every gun I own need not draw blood. If hunted with, it need not meet any optimal performance level. I might decided to take a 12 pound Shiloh sharps on a deer hunt. Call it a challenge. The goal is always a clean one shot kill or come home empty. As I gain confidence, I might hunt (something) with my new 505Gibbs. What the heck! If I were to hunt something that could fight back, that would limit my choice. Those are personal limits, not some universal rule book.

I want a big over 50 gun, too approximate a hot 577NE. What I can or cannot handle in the field is not going to limit my gun ownership. On the other hand, if I never try a 577 class gun, I will never know what might have been.

quote:

#3. I see you as an insecure egomaniac with low self esteem, who feels the need to post 15 threads about a three animal PG hunt in order to garner the maximum amount of attention for himself, and who is also a bully to boot. I also am well aware of your previous episode of hollow death threats so please spare me the dubious honor of becoming your next recipient. So now you are casting yourself as the victim?

Ciao,
Cortes

As my "friend" GatoGordo would say,"Cortes, you just earned yourself ASSHOLE of the month award!"

Then he would proceed to blast you in ways you thought impossible.

Sasquatch

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I have never been to africa, so take this FWIW.

I own most of my guns just for fun, plinking or (formal or informal)target shooting, small game hunting, etc... Some are very heavy and some are purely nostalgic and some are big bores. For serious hunting I maybe (maybe?) use 3 rifles and 2 shotguns. I could cut this in half if not for all the state regs.

Every gun I own need not draw blood. If hunted with, it need not meet any optimal performance level. I might decided to take a 12 pound Shiloh sharps on a deer hunt. Call it a challenge. The goal is always a clean one shot kill or come home empty. As I gain confidence, I might hunt (something) with my new 505Gibbs. What the heck! If I were to hunt something that could fight back, that would limit my choice. Those are personal limits, not some universal rule book.

I want a big over 50 gun, too approximate a hot 577NE. What I can or cannot handle in the field is not going to limit my gun ownership. On the other hand, if I never try a 577 class gun, I will never know what might have been.

I couldn't agree with you more on every point, particularly "if I never try a 577 class gun, I will never know what might have been."

You might say "HOLY CRAP! NEVER AGAIN!"

or

You might say "Hey, I think I might try that again..."

I'm bettin' it will be the latter

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:
CCMDoc,

Are you seriously asserting that the chap in these snaps is in control of the rifle. This is just a gaff, as you say?

Not at all. In fact. I don't believe that I intimated that Rich was in control of that rifle in those photos. I believe I compared that sort of experience to those captured on video and aired on a not so funny television program - America's Funniest Home Videos. Unintentional misadventures captured on film and shared with the rest of the world.
You're not suggesting that a person who fails to perform to expectations in a particular way with the initial attempts should abandon all future attempts, are you?

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:
most folks who have the really big stuff can't shoot them accurately nor can they carry them all day in tropical heat and still be fresh enough to place an accurate shot.

You are suggesting that you have seen ALL folk who have attempted this in order to assert that most can't. Rather impressive experience, observations and CV.

quote:

Originally posted by Cortes:
If weight in rifles were no issue companies like Ultra Light Arms would not have made a decent business over the years shaving ounces, let alone pounds, out of rifles.

Oh I agree with you here. I like lightweight stuff as much as the next guy. In fact, if you ask my wife of 30 years, she'll tell you about how upset I was when I had stainless steel rather than titanium screws and plates used to put me back together. I like a 5 pound rifle just as you probably do. I just don't share your concerns about carrying a 10 or 12 pound rifle throughout the African day in quest of a Cape buffalo and being "fresh enough" to shoot it accurately. Been there, done that - and didn't have a gun bearer. Neither did my 70 year old dad, for that matter. Made a damn good shot, too.

Welcome to AR, Cortes. This is a great place, a great forum with a lot of great people and fantastic experiences which they like to share. Like you, many (including me) are opinionated and have no reservation about sharing those opinions. All good stuff and the Hoot and Shoot was a perfect example of how a particular target of ridicule on this very forum showed the stuff of which he is made.

Stay well,
Paul

quote:

I just don't share your concerns about carrying a 10 or 12 pound rifle throughout the African day in quest of a Cape buffalo and being "fresh enough" to shoot it accurately. Been there, done that

Ditto...

Hey Jeffe...!

You still got that video of me shootin the 4 Bore Mastadon? This would be a great place to post it again.

I'll have my 600 Overkill by the end of June, maybe even before. George should have the "device" made by Christmas, then we can show how "easy" to shoot these monsters really are!!!

Andy shooting the 4 bore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vxnuJjEbnA