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Done! 5 star rating given and long live the great .458 Winchester Magnum!  You'll probably never NEED a gun. In fact I hope you never do. BUT IF you do, you will probably need it worse than anything you've ever needed before in your life... | |||
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Thanks, badboymelvin, You figured it out even though I said "right" when I meant "my other right" (left) click. Corrected. (OK, a "left click" is just a plain old "click" versus the "right click." I might become computer literate, eventually.) You have made the difference, 5 stars showing now. Rip . | |||
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stradling, 550-grainers might be more fun than I want to have. But anything fired in a .458 WinMag is of interest here for sure, so have at it, please!  North Fork makes a .458/550-grainer too: .458/550-grain SS, Soft Point:  .458/550-grain FPS (FP Solid):  Cup Point Solid (CPS), etc. ... Other North Fork .458-caliber weights are 300, 325, 350, 400, 405, 450, and 500-grainers. 550-grainers are the heaviest .458 from NF, no 600-grainers there.  Regarding North Fork bullets, from my homeboy stash: I have made a .458 WinMag throat gage by seating a North Fork .458/450-grain SP backwards into a case. Crimping on the second micro-groove from the nose ogive, that's about as long as I can seat it (reversed) and still hope to keep it straight and solidly crimped.   The base of that bullet is as flat and square as any I can find, makes a heck of a wadcutter appearance to the dummy round. That bullet base is also closer to .459" diameter rather than .458". That's a North Fork "seal-tight band" of sorts, but no patent or copyright infringement of Cutting Edge.  The corner/edge of the North Fork SP bullet base is slightly broken/beveled/rounded. Close enough for R.I.P. work to call it square. Well, that produces a dummy cartridge/throat gage that has a C.O.L. of 3.160". It is a big fat go on that, a GO GAGE. My calculations said that a .458-caliber cylindrical bullet would be bumping into the lands in the .458 WinMag throat at 3.176" distance from the breech bolt face. That would be a NO GO THROAT GAGE COL. R.I.P. certified. What does this mean?, asks I of meself: Well, it means that a .458 WinMag loaded with a 450-grain or 500-grain Barnes TSX can be loaded to crimp on 4th groove down from the ogive, with 3 grooves showing beyond the case mouth. That gives a COL of 3.680" with either of these two bullets, they both have the same nose/ogive above the first groove: .458/450-grain TSX:  .458/500-grain TSX:  And that COL will chamber and fire in a standard SAAMI .458 WinMag. That is as long as the 450-grain TSX can be loaded, with a crimp. And that is longer than the standard .458 Lott max COL. However, the 500-grain TSX can be crimped on the 5th groove back from the ogive, with 4 grooves showing beyond the case mouth of a .458 WinMag. That gives a COL of about 3.790". That IS too long to chamber in a .458 WinMag. Finally! But hey! That is crowding a .458 Lott CZ 550 Magnum anyway. I load those bullets in the CZ .458 Lott to only 3.730" COL, by crimping on the second groove back from the ogive, with only one groove showing beyond the .458 Lott case mouth. Next groove down makes a COL too long for the CZ magazine box! So, with the Barnes TSX bullets, either 450-grain or 500-grain, in a CZ 550 Magnum, the .458 WinMag functions with a COL of 3.680" and the .458 Lott functions with a COL of 3.730". That is only 50 thousandths of an inch difference in cartridge length between the two. The 450 and 500-grain TSX bullets can be loaded in the .458 WinMag to COLs of: A. 3.340": crimped on the first groove, no grooves showing beyond the case mouth B. 3.560": crimped on the 3rd groove, 2 grooves showing C. 3.680": crimped on the 4th groove, 3 grooves showing Your choice of magazine box length: .458 WinMag-A: 3.4" .458 WinMag-B: 3.6" .458 WinMag-C: 3.8" All the same chambering, just different rifles with different magazine box length. Such a versatile cartridge is the .458 WinMag! I do have some the first generation Barnes X-Bullets of .458/500-grain spec. They are without grooves, not even a single cannelure. Also they have a pointier, longer ogive nose than the current TSX. A dummy .458 WinMag with that bullet can be loaded to a COL of 3.797", and it WILL still chamber in a SAAMI .458 WinMag.  Tat is the marvel of the .458 WinMag! The leade-only-long-funnel throat has been under-rated, unappreciated, and much maligned, for no good reason. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of cartidges. Dangerfield ... danger field ... perfect place to use a DGR like a .458 WinMag-A, or B or C.  Enough free association for now. I gotta go get started on a .458 WinMag-A done on a Pre-64 M70 parts gun: 7.5 pounds. Then a .458 WinMag-B done on a Pre-'64 M70 parts gun: 6.5 pounds. Going from A to B to re-acclimate to recoil. I am sure to use a 25-pound bag of bird-shot at the bench with those, early on, maybe even a (horrors!) muzzle brake. The .458 WinMag-C on a CZ 550 Magnum: 9 pounds even, if I use the Kevlar/Aramid stock, and shorten the barrel a few inches.  Rip . | |||
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That's one big reason why I like the 300 gr X, TSX, TTSX and the 350 gr X and TSX. I still got the huge hole thru a bear AND those loads are easy shooting. I really liked the old , big blue nose 510 gr Winchester rnsn factory load for shooting Sitka Blacktail deer. It poked a hole thru them with about 0 lost meat. As long as no bones bigger than the skull was hit. And still would dump a big bear up close and fast. And , I could hit well with it. Out to 200 yards. I thot the lighter weight Barnes going fast dumped bears faster. But , I can't prove it. One reason I liked them was their spitzeresque shape didn't hurt feeding. Not interested in anyone talking about sending a rifle off to a smith to get it to feed 100% with some wadcutterish flat nose. Which incidentally, the Spruce King feeds backward seated 350 gr Speer Hot Cores100% in my hands. Friends of mine never had much luck with it feeding. Being alone 60 miles from town ,sometimes a couple, few miles by foot . 10 by 4 wheeler and 50 by skiff I wanted every advantage I could get in a fight. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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RIP what the hell is wrong with you that's way too much common sense for AR made me laugh out loud then I got to thinking why we have extra 550 grain bullets around here and not much else taking every advantage in a fight that dam well could be, and you know for ''sure'' dam well --- is at the bottom of it all-- is a fight for your life, that right there will get you real-- real fast even after every other thing you try ---don't work recoil is not your friend-- never was-- never will be now I see why those hard headed Alaskans are so obsessed with that over promoted spruce king some of em won't even go fishin without it-- think about that will you when I did I did not laugh - I am quite confident that MAN is telling the truth Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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stradling, Just a suggestion: If you run out of case capacity with 550-grainWoodleigh ...  ... shy of 2100 fps, you might be able to load them long-nosed in any SAAMI .458 WinMag. I don't know for sure, depends on how long the full diameter shank is ahead of the cannelure. If possible, load them to 3.600" COL, like you would in a standard .458 Lott, they just won't fit in a 3.4" box. Here's a nice .458 Lott load to try in the .458 WinMag, with the 550-grain Woodleighs you have: http://www.reloadersnest.com/d...ffset=20&LoadID=9473 84.0 grains of Varget gave 2100 fps at 3.600" COL, 25" barrel. 80.0 grains gave best accuracy, and might be fast enough in the more efficient .458 WinMag. Just a suggestion, something I might try if I ever get any 550-grainers (North Fork). Proceed with your own loads, at your own risk. I cannot be responsible for a groan man like you. So a real kick-ass, long-nosed load could be single-loaded into the chamber, and the rapid-fire, follow-up, elephant-love-tap loads fill the box. Rip . | |||
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Rip thanks for the info we got the woodleighs out and the 550 grain are quite long and soak up lots of case volume which I am sure you knew already we are slightly weak knee ed about it at the moment had a couple 200 of other guys loads to finish up so did not load any to play with but to work we may need to push em out a bit and run a new ring on the bullets pain in the grass so then checkem in one specific gun and all that stuff The good idea, might not hunt as good as the first blush idea did your pointy north fork seems suddenly an excellent next thing to look at feeding ignored for the moment Woodleigh reloading manual edition 2014 page 239 shows loads a load for 458 win mag of both benchmark and benchmark 2 73 gn 2110 fps 550 gn bullet I think the C refers to crushed down to the properties of stone don't think we can quite get that done in this gun wonder what the test rifle was for that recipe we are not doing this in a ruger 1 chained to a post Watts may not ever have want us to run em that big in his 450 watts short any way at least not in this little repeater no point making a little short fat hog out of her Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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There are times in the run of a 458s life where very rapid 2nd shot may be necessary. Like BangBang or Bangcyclereadywatch! Mainly for warning/ deterrent first shots. Heavy recoil is a detriment then. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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Not taking it to work currently as I now drive truck and run heavy equipment for a living . For about 10 years this rifle was my fairly constant companion and when pre commercial tree thinning was with me Every day. If my saw wasn't running in my hands then the Spruce King was in hand. . If I went to Africa. It would be the rifle I took. But doubt I'll ever go. I built it for protection and as a meat gun. It has always excelled at both jobs. Until someone spends lots of time in the brush on Chichagof Is. They may doubt how many bear a guy has to be around every day. The oldtimers had them cropped back so it wasn't as bad as it is now. Plus , the coast has gone to he'll in a hand basket with all the tourists , nature fakers, and tourist businesses. I knew 7 or 8 people in just Hoonah alone that have been under a bear. Most have the scars to prove it. It's kindof a different mind set there. Being much more a settler/homesteader/ natural resource extractor. Punks in black or brown fur coats were just something a guy had to deal with efficiently. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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well I for one would dam sure like to see a photo of a over worked beat down old spruce king I can tell you that for sure I am about to post pic.s of the test rifles and would feel a little better about it if you did not make me go first as they are not all that fancy RIP shows us all those bullet graphics and not gun one whats up with that RIP Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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It's even uglier than Phil's. I had a pic up last winter. I'll take some pics and see if I can get something to appear. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Stradling, I love ugly rifles. Like a mother loves her child. As long as it functions properly, fugly is fine. I have way more than a hundred fugly rifles. Beware the man with more than 200 guns.  I would love to post some pictures, already have them in photopucker, but I am not going to pay them $400 per year just for that. Why, I could make another fugly rifle for that! Send me a PM with your email and I will send you some photos to post. Whatever you want. Hell, I will take some new pictures that even Photopucker does not have.  Maybe I ought to find something other than Photopucker. Is Imgur the way to go? Rip . | |||
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So get Imgur and do it myself, eh? I like that. And since I am able to type [ctrl] + [-] repeatedly until I get it down to 33% size, I am able to view the photos posted by stradling for full aesthetics. Not fugly rifles. Nice rifles. Someone is paying attention to cosmetics. Function too, I hope. Rip . | |||
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MAY HAVE OVER STEPPED MY SELF PROMOTED SKILL W PHOTOS cut em down to 1024 looks like I need to cut them down to 512 Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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Wow , purti !! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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test:   Ah ha! 1024 wide is better than 3072 wide! The dots disappear if you edit the size down to 1/3 of the original. Is Imgur.com gonna change the rules and charge me big money for this too? Ugly ones coming up, I'll build some more if I have to. Rip . | |||
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With a .458 WinMag, who needs a .458 Lott? The COL of a .458 WinMag is mainly limited by the magazine box length. Ruger and Mauser standard actions: 3.400"max COL Winchester M70 and stretched M98: 3.600" max COL CZ 550 Magnum, etc.: 3.800" COL All of the below COLs could be chambered and fired in a SAAMI .458 WinMag, even the reversed bullet at the top, serving as a throat go gage.  *********************************************************** (Edit 8-9-2017) Bullets used in dummies above, from 1. at top to 10. at bottom: 1. North Fork .458/450gr SS (soft point Semi-Spitzer), reversed seating: 3.160" COL It's an easy THROAT GO GAGE, crimped on second micro-groove from ogive. 2. North Fork .458/450gr CPS (Cup Point Solid) of earliest production: 3.310" COL 3. North Fork .458/450 SS (showing other end of bullet in 1.) crimped on third groove from ogive: 3.330" COL 4. Hornady .458/500gr FMJ Solid, ye olde one, vintage uncertain: 3.335" COL 5. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on first groove, next to ogive: 3.340" COL 6. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on second groove from ogive: 3.455" COL 7. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on third groove from ogive: 3.560" COL 8. North Fork .458/450gr SS, crimped on 10th micro-groove from ogive: 3.600" COL 9. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on 4th groove from ogive: 3.560" COL The 450-grain TSX has 4 grooves, 500-grain TSX has 5 grooves. Same nose/ogive on both. If you crimp the 500-grain TSX on the 5th groove, the COL is 3.788" and that is too long to chamber in a SAAMI .458 WinMag due to throat too short and tight for that. But the longer-nosed dummy below will chamber just fine, in a SAAMI .458 WinMag. 10. Barnes .458/500 X-Bullet of earliest production: 3.797" COL ******************************************************************** I am dangerous again, with new photo linking from imgur.com. Dangerously boring. A big bore. Above pic was re-sized to 800 wide, and 900-something long. Convenient enough. Rip . | |||
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So, how did you get set up with imgur ? I didn't see much info other than downloading their app. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, I just went to www.imgur.com and signed in as a new account and it started working immediately for me: Just created a user name and a password and typed in my email address. I don't do that "app" crap on anything I know of. As you were: Below was downloaded to my 'puter from this page, then edited on my 'puter, then uploaded to imgur. I hope stradling doesn't mind. I sized this one to about 1024 wide by +300 tall after I rotated and cropped it.  Stradling's .458 WinMag "Cull Gun" has gotten me so worked up I am going to have to go load some 22-250 varmint ammo to calm down.  Rip . | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP: With a .458 WinMag, who needs a .458 Why get a 458 win when you can build a 400 h&h | |||
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I like the Model 70 with the stick clip ;-) I'll give it a whirl. Thank you. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...0106691/m/2521072332 CFT go to that link he has a video you can watch then you will be good at it like me do not skip the part on photo re sizing might get you in trouble later on if you are interested in a clip conversion  I have got the parts source for you depending on which action you have got can point you to things BOTTOM METAL WE USED ON THIS ONE http://cdiprecisiongunworks.com/ the 5 round clip is a bit more practical what is showing is the 10 round it runs better with 8 than 10 we have one on both a crf m 70 and a rem 700 push feed to see the dif did that test 3 years ago worked well enough to leave it on the guns so RIP thanks for working on my pic s those are the numbers I was looking for started out in the 4000 s quite large as we see here will re set them and thanks for posting that bullet string was trying to explain all that to folks in the shop the pic s will make it much more clear need a list of the bullets type and size number 2 from the top looks like a batch we had a guy here on the forum that is located in california run off for us years back mine were set up for the 577 ne is that the same bullet  550 woodleigh next to the macfije 577 the 512 photo size seems much more user friendly don't you think do like your rifles Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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We set up a 3 man team one rolling the tires w a target screwed to the center down the side hill 2 shooting the rifles one a double one the 458 clip gun we all found out after burning some 400 rounds each that if you want to unload 8 or 10 458 win mag rounds somewhere near the center of a bouncing rolling tire big recoil is not going to help you mark the paper not going to help you get the shots off and not going to help you sleep later that evening ON THE OTHER HAND A REFLEX SIGHT IS SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER RECOIL NOT YOUR FRIEND a point CTF keeps bringing up a smooth running m 98 w 5 down and 1 in the 20 inch tube might be all you need if you could ever find one like that well we are building just that rifle and it ain't going to look like the pawn shop rifles just posted might even be as nice a some of RIP s guns Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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Rip . | |||
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Both are cool beans. If being a riflecrank is similar to being a carguy, then building a 400 H&H is like restoring a '58 Edsel, and the .458 WinMag is like a '65 Mustang rebuild, complete with 8-track tape player and red paint! That little V-8 was nice! Rip . | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by stradling: this is the remington 700 with a custom take off ruger 460 wby barrel cut back and reamed to 458 win mag its 21 1/2 inch tube has the 10 round clip and trigicon reflex sight with the delta point  this is the montana 22 inch tube it shoots up to 78 grains and over 2300 fps little or no pressure show  this is a winchester m 70 458 win mag with the florida bottom metal and a 10 round clip  This is the heavy barrel wby custom 458 win mag  the cz 550 in 458 win mag  remington 798 zastava 26 inch barrel shoots 78 grains of aa 2230 under a 500gr hornady no pressure show at top load measured at 2344 fps  shows the added compression of a 550 woodleigh over the 500 hornady both solids  this is the 550 woodleigh just touching the powder at 69 gn of benchmark so starts out in compression  red one is a 550 grain woodleigh next to a 500 hornady  the 550 s all loaded up in pairs ready to go to the lab radar we will first shoot them in the remington 798 zastava seems it handles pressure the best  this is a string of aa 2230 loads under 550 woodleighs much less compression and we loaded um up to 73 grains of powder don't know if we will end up lighting all of them we will see how it goes the one at the top might have a full can of whoop ass ready for the lucky bastard that lights its rear end we will see about that  the spread  mauser 98 argentine 1909 22 inch tube 8.5 pounds the project test gun  Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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We americans are like that fashion chasing fickel remember when the 30-06 bounced off an elk would not kill it at 200 yards about the time Roy Weatherby got rich on the 300 wby fad could not give a 30-06 away in those days--- never mind it killed a million germans and as many japanese now we load it with a 220 grain bullet and shoot elephant so goes the 458 win mag one of the most under utilized cartridges out there much like the 30-06 there is not much it won't do in the right hands with the right bullet and it's enough gun and easy to shoot you really don't need the fancy 300 win mag do you now nice enough yes yet the 30-06 will get er done when you get right down to it elegance in simplicity in those days when all I could afford was a junk 303 british that not much good for anything a reject 30-06 looked pretty good to me, I never quite bought in to the bulls used grass good cheap fast kinda had all 3 well here we are right back there if something works it just works there is always more and more of it, but at some point do you really need it any way the all time elephant killer is more than most likely a 303 british service rifle less you step down to the ak 47, but that's kinda a new thing isn't it Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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OOOO-kkkkkk, Ive been kicked, stomped, gilflurted and sidewided, can't take it anymore so Im out of here.. BTW I shoot clays with my .458 Lott!!, so there!!   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have plans to build three "new" .458 WinMag shop mules, truck guns, pawnshop guns, or whatever you want to call them. Beware, you cannot un-see what follows! It is not for the faint of heart or those unable to make a fist without extended pinky finger: . . . . . . . . . . A Whitworth MkX barreled action that unfortunately got opened up, after-factory, to .458 Lott, 8.0 lbs without the KDF muzzlebrake. I stocked it myself, can't blame anyone else for this:  That is some of my earliest unadulterated stock work. It is a Brown Precision fiberglass stock with brown-colored Microbed epoxy smeared all over the outside of the bare fiberglass and painted with black Krylon. I am thinking of re-barreleing it to .458 WinMag-B (3.6" magazine box), using a CZ take-off barrel, to produce a sporty featherweight-safari profile. Of course the stock could be sanded smooth and properly painted, with a lot of elbow grease. But first, this Pre-'64 M70 300 WinMag parts gun (formerly a 30-06 from 1950 year) will be re-barreled with a CZ take-off barrel to produce a .458 WinMag-A (3.4" magazine box). It might be 7.5 lbs in tupperware stock shown:  Here is what the CZ take-off barrels look like. I only have 3 of them left, what with the .458 Lott and .458/.338 Lapua Magnum re-chambering mutilations. Don't anybody ask to buy one of them unless he is willing to offer big bucks for one! A thousand bucks won't cut one loose from me!   Then there is a gosh-darned CZ .458 Lott produced by re-chambering a .458 WinMag that will be restored to .458 WinMag-C (3.8" magazine box). That will be a slicker feeder than a .458 Lott on same rifle, and it will be more efficient in converting gunpowder into kinetic energy. Ought to be about 9.0 lbs even in Aramid stock, if shortened to 23" barrel. No gilflurting allowed, except to Atkinson. Girlflirting is OK only for you single guys. Not Atkinson.  Rip . | |||
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I just got home from work . Don't have the brain waves to start up a new image hosting site. This is the best I can do tonight. http://s1087.photobucket.com/u...1223_150231.jpg.html Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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CTF, Copied to my tablet for viewing convenience, "auto-correct" sharpened it up a bit, then uploaded to imgur. Your cell phone might have fogged in that warm and sunny Alaskan dusk? Hope you don't mind. I have not learned to do anything new at Imgur, yet. Need to spend some time there myself ... Cold Trigger Finger's Spruce King, a .458 WinMag-A:  I want one of those too. I might actually have to buy a virgin stainless barrel for that. But I do have that Ruger M77 Mk II in same stock, that has a .338 WinMag barrel on it right now. That will be the fourth .458 WinMag-A for me. A man cannot have too many .458 WinMags. From my cold, dead hands ... Molon labe (Greek: μολὼν λαβέ molṑn labé), meaning "come and take [them]", is a classical expression of defiance. According to Plutarch,[1] Xerxes, king of Persia, demanded that the Spartans surrender their weapons and King Leonidas I responded with this phrase. It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe Rip . | |||
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RIP; Thank you very much for posting the pick. No, I didn't kill that bou with the Spruce King. Used my 9.3x64 Brenneke. Maybe this fall I'll get a bou with the 458. Might even use a cast boolit. I would be interested to see if your Ruger will feed 458 before Any mods. That's what got me hooked on the M77 Mk ll. It fed every kind of 458 I had to feed it while still a factory 338. At least up and into the chamber. Did the same with 416 Taylor ammo. But , I already had a Taylor and wanted to b able t buy factory ammo again. Even the old 510 gr WW softs , with the great big snolly bomb of lead nose. I really liked that ammo. They knock the he'll right out of a bear. But , just pokes a .458" hole thru a deer. I'm just curious as to whether mine was a fluke. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The barrel on mine is a Shilen. Either the 458 Winchester is real efficient as to not needing long barrels to attain full velocity. Or mine is a Fast barrel. I get book velocity with book loads and the barrel is 19" from receiver ring to crown of the bore. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Schroeder & Hetzendorfer make a cartridge called the S&H 2 Bore ... Jay Schroeder for the brass and bullets: his bullets are nice enough to put on the mantel and some of the 2 bore cost enough that they need to be there he made the 577 mono I posted , still have a few 100 of em for future elephant dreams any way nice to see real working guns never change that first one w nice stock RIP if you do will regret it I am building me a BSA 458 to keep in the pickup  its to me a new gun  won't quite be the show off CTF s gun is, but think it will work did not plan on showing it to you guys, may turn out to crude to promote I can not stand ridicule and criticism I get all the laughing at it, I need, from the boys in the custom deluxe we make em so dam fancy you will never even think of taking it to work with you Frank --gun shop don't give a shoot, did it anyway and think I will really like it personal pickup gun 458 win mag kill anything ==go anywhere== be right there if you need it== stay in the pickup== handy as hell gun now we are getting some where with this 458 win mag gun discussion put them to work use em work the ass of it== when you hit it== it will hurt it== gun pretty much what watts had in mind when he lost his pistol in the creek he wasn't in there, with it, and neither was the bear on the 2 mile walk to camp in the soft moonlight, he must of considered the possibility of all that school teacher training, dam near squandered watching a bear have a midnight snack on his leg, pistol over there in the rocks and all wet just couldn't get past it, would not let it go, clung to it for 12 years then he got anderson to cut a 450 watts short reamer and, all of a sudden he forgot all about it that was awhile back long time ago I carry a gun now that would have more than likly turned things out a little different, that night don't worry as much about it these days, as I did back then , I have got a better gun look right there ,you have got yourself one of those new fangle 458 win mags, that should do the trick Was not drinking coffee with Watts this morning, in the light rain falling on my tin shed rat tat tat, singing to me about wild places a hint of fall drifting down out of rock canyon, lifting the mood, elevating the mind, nudging adventure but I was thinking about him thinking through the lost pistol in the creek, right when I really would have wanted it Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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Holsters. A man needs to unnerstan. His pistol holster needs to be as skookum as his belt , and gun and himself. Integral belt loop full flap. And keep it well greased with rendered bear fat !! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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All this 458 Win Mag talk has finally gotten to me. I had a chance to pick up a 458 myself a couple months ago at a gun show here in Idaho. Somebody built this on a FN military action, barrel unmarked for maker. A swing safety like a Model 70, Redfield bases and rings. Sitting in a synthetic stock. Total package reblued in a black chrome looking finish. Came with RCBS dies, 50 loaded cartridges. Not much more recoil than my 375 H&H. | |||
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stradling, OK, I will use a different donor rifle to convert to .458 WinMag-B (3.6" box). It also has a Brown Precision stock, but with not so much epoxy smeared on the outside of it, so it will be a lot easier to re-finish, and not so much a loss of originality. The new donor is the first rifle I ever had built for me, a Whitworth MkX .375 WbyMag with the old atrociously long throat of 1949 vintage. Gunsmith said he was allergic to epoxy, so I was left to my own devices, stocked this one myself too, in 1987. It hunted Kodiak in fall 1987 and spring 1988. It would be perfect in that role if re-barreled to .458 WinMag:       And for my version of The Spruce King, my 4th .458 WinMag-A (3.4" box), here is an early Ruger M77 MK II, .338 WinMag. I still have the original boat-paddle stock. Aftermarket Hogue stock and Whitworth express sights were added to the original slick barrel:    Using the "boat paddle stock" on the rifle will lighten it at least a pound versus the Hogue stock. The original stock resides in this box, No.4 on the endflap notecard label:  That box is on the bottom of this pile on top of a safe in a corner of "The Study":  | |||
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RIp clean that mess up or it's going to get out of hand sloppy like this guy  Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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OK already! I will leave the 8# .458 Lott Mk X alone, warthog-ugly stock and all. It will serve as poster-child for what not to do to your .458 WinMag, er, uh .450 Watts Short. CTF, My Ruger M77 Mk II, .338 WinMag, is an excellent feeder of .458 WinMag dummies. The North Fork Flat Point Solids (old and new nose shape), Hornady Round Nose softs and solids of any sort, and of course the Barnes TSXs of any sort, as long as COL is kept under 3.4", they feed like poop through a goose, slicker than greased owl crap, etc. Three down in the box with plenty of room to spare , 3+1 four-shooter. My rifle is truly one of the earliest M77 Mk II rifles. When they first came out, they were still pushfeeds, with an enclosed boltface. Gunsmith Kelly Olson in Eagle River, Alaska fixed that about 1992. He milled away what he called the "weak sister" bolt face and converted it to CRF. He may have done other feed work on it, but I was too stupid to know about such things back then. Sturm Ruger themselves soon followed suit at the factory! Kelly Olson moved back to Minnesota! I moved back to Kentucky! Kelly Olson also installed those Whitworth express sights on the slick factory barrel. I will make sure my new, stainless .450 Watts Short barrel fits inside the contours of that barrel out to the forend tip, After that it will taper less to the muzzle and be about 0.710" diameter at 23" muzzle. Then I can always switch back to .338 WinMag barrel, a fine cartridge, once in a blue moon, for a few days. Rip . | |||
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