Its 2008 .. What are we going to wildcat THIS year?

I am thinking I am going to hunt more this year!
jeffe

don't laugh...I am going to start exploring answer(s) to a question that has bothered me for years.
What is the minimum body taper, and maximum shoulder angle that will work in a boltgun?

1. Project 308 ZTSS starts this week. There is a Savage 12BVSS in 308 out in the shop. Stainless steel barrel and action, single shot, in a laminated stock. Over the next couple of weeks I intend to see what it will do for accuracy. Then I will pull the barrel, shorten it 1/2" and rechamber for the 308 ZTSS.

Zero Taper Square Shoulder. Dave Manson cut the reamers, and Hornady made me a die set. Take the 308Win and reduce body taper to .001"; then sharpen the shoulder angle to 89-degrees. Dave was concerned about a true ZTSS shape and pressures, so we compromised just about 1%.

2. Project 475 Gibbs. Got the reamers, a P17Rem, a barrel and wood setting in the shop as well.
boomer time IV.


That's my story, wazzup with the others?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowlege lost...

2007 was a very good year.
No more wildcats for me, too many already ... time to kill stuff with them.

Rich - you should look at Gatehouse's GIMP!

(Gatehouse Improved) it has the same geometry you're after - maybe he has some tales to share.

I have a new .458" "Wildcat" I'm doing this year but since I wasn't invited I'll just keep it to myself!!

I bow to more ambitious members here.

Hopefully in 2008 we will see a firing 2-bore BP Express, a TRUE 2-bore, not one of those 3-bores masquerading as a 2-bore! May Sir Samuel Baker spin in his grave as if firing "Baby" at the impostors from his coffin!

Was "Baby" a true 2-bore?

Maybe we will get to see the .458 Macifej has mentioned.
I think the cartridge might look like a 220 Swift with 105-grain VLD bullet scaled up to .458 caliber and 600 grains of powder charge, which ain't cordite.

Smoothbore sabot-dart?

Rich, best of luck!
you can have zero taper in the case, if the hole is tapered..

.475 bullet in a 505 gibbs case is the 470 royale

the ARs are .010 taper, and zero issue extracting .. thats .005 per side

if your ramp is set at a good slope, they will feed just fine.. the g12 casesless was zero taper and square shoulder, and feeds fine... but extraction wasn't an issue with a caseless

Mac
enjoy ... have a ball, and have fun...

like i said in my first post, i expect to spend more time hunting than building

What about the .395 Norma Magnum......

I would like to buy some bullets from you guys in .395 caliber to try and test , a new year resolutuion for my self, "get those cartridge ideas alive"

RIP and Prof own the entire worlds supply of .395" bullets unless you want to commission a new custom .395" projectile of your own.

RIP! What do ya think?!? Can you help a Norwegian out??

Macifej,
Believe it or not, Gerard of GSC is still on the project.

It will be much easier to get the finest quality copper monometal bullets in .395 caliber into Europe/Scandinavia at lesser cost than the S&H brass jewels.

Mr. Rigby:
Please email Gerard at GSC.
My signature block contains websites of all firms that have had or will have .395 related products, past, present, or future ... if you are serious ... get started on the .395 PH.

First needed would be a .395 barrel from McGowen Precision Barrels, LLC. They have tooling for 6-groove 1:12" twist of .395"-groove and .387" land.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how will extraction be with a zero taper cartidge (I am assuming you are not maximizing case dimensions and then plan to run it at 40k PSI)? I used to own a Savage rifle, and suspect that if the case was really sticky, the extractor would fly off first - mine flew off several times, that is why I ditched it.

Not being an ass, just genuinely curious.

No wildcats on the horizon. Will be spending time working up loads for the .395 Ruger Max and the .400NE.

I need to finish up a few rifles before I start anything new. I think I may play with the 505 gibbs case...nothing new but it would be fun. I may also do something with RIPs 395 caliber. Maybe a long range 1000 yd round. I think the bullets would be very slick. Since I want to do a lot of long range target shooting in my retirement this may be a good caliber to play with. On the Lauppa case???
The other item I need to do is to neck up the 50 BMG to 600 and 700 for grins.

Of course I still need to finish up the 12 ga FH.

Lots to do but I now have the time to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:
I need to finish up a few rifles before I start anything new. I think I may play with the 505 gibbs case...nothing new but it would be fun. I may also do something with RIPs 395 caliber. Maybe a long range 1000 yd round. I think the bullets would be very slick. Since I want to do a lot of long range target shooting in my retirement this may be a good caliber to play with. On the Lauppa case???
The other item I need to do is to neck up the 50 BMG to 600 and 700 for grins.

Of course I still need to finish up the 12 ga FH.

Lots to do but I now have the time to do it.

Squeeze some Cheytac necks to .395.........

or

Put a neck on some 700 NE to get a rim headspaced .395 varminter!!

John,
The .395 won't beat you up.
.398 Lapua Magnum is a great one for target work, and you have proper headstamped brass by merely changing the "3" to a "9" with a tiny semicircular scribe of the engraving tool, on the ".338 Lapua Mag." headstamp.
Engrave your barrel ".398 Lapua Mag."
Best brass.
No hassles.
It will work.
I have one completed, just waiting for reloading dies to get the accuracy potential, and of course, Gerard's 340-grain VLD SP.

However, Macifej has come to the rescue here too. He has pending a VLD .395 brass solid that will be somewhere less than 2" long and weigh somewhere around 345 grains and have a B.C. that will be > .7 at 2800 fps.

Calling it the .395 SHarlow, because it is similar to the AAA Harlow (705-gr 50BMG bullet), by my request. Of course if AAA objects to the name similarity, we'll just call it The Ripper. The S&H Ripper. Should rip some shit way out there.

I'm gonna make bullets this year. The SL-10 and Bar Feeder arrive in 60 days. I'm designing bullets as we speak and writing G-code. its gonna be a great year!-Rob

Rob!

I thought you had a TL-1 up and running already??

If you're going to get into the bullet biz then get a 20mm + Screw machine!! You'll need organ transplants waiting for a single spindle lathe without live tooling to make a bullet!!

(you won't be able to hold the tolerances well either)

If you get a big enough Swiss - I can send you all kinds of business!!!!!

TMG,

that is one of the things I intend to find out. I could end up knocking each fired case out with a cleaning rod. It's the only way I know to get the answer, none of the manufacturers had ever done one to find out. I suspect that the difficulty in making those square cases, along with the cost, is the reason why.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Yup., sounds to me like you ant the 375 Gatehouse Improved (375 GIMP)

How about resurrecting the .350 Newton?

While people have that soft focus, Yuletide sentimentality, resurrect the Charles Newton rifles to chamber it also.


P.S.

Make left hand 'clones' too, I am left handed!

I have a TL-1 now and yes it runs fine.
Bridger made all their bullets on a SL-10 and John says he was able to hold tolerences pretty well. I have tons of time so that isn't a big factor right now. Yes a swiss screw machine would be great, but I also have other things I want to make besides bullets, like precision RC helicopter parts. Maybe I'll start making 45-70 lever action DGR's too. There seems to be a niche opening up. Do you think I could learn to make those special Hard-Cast bullets that kill game too?-Rob

.........This year I think will be the year of the belted Weatherby rounds for me .......Starting with a 460 ,,, then a 500 A-Square and lastley a 475 A&M ....All on CZ 550 Actions unless the McGowan action is ready in Stainless by then .....The 460 will be on my Lott , just a rechamber / bolt face ...But with the barrel shortened to 23" and a brake added ,,a band sling eye , and the band fore sight re installed ....Probably put it in an MPI stock ..And have it all CeraKoted ......Next the 500 as it will require the most machine work on the barrel .....Lastley the 475 , as I will just have an uncontoured 1.2" chambered barrel put on the action and stuck in a wood stock that I have and put a scope on it to see what I think about it .....I would be smart to stop @ the 500 and invest the 475 $ in bullets and brass.......It will be fun .....

Gumboot- consider making your CZ550 a switch barrel. Then you can enjoy all those calibers with a single gun. -Rob

I always figured that .005 per lineal inch of cartridge to be the minimum reliable taper for a cartridge. I also thought there wasn't enough shoulder on the Rigby case to make 50 caliber cartridge ( 500 Mbogo ) but apparently that's not so.

458 Gumboot you should just build a 470 Mbogo and use it.
Happy New Year
Dave

.........Now that is an idea .....Do switch barrels have to be bolted up tite as a bulls butt in a blizzard ,,,,Or will they stay in place being hand tight ?????

quote:

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:
I always figured that .005 per lineal inch of cartridge to be the minimum reliable taper for a cartridge. 458 Gumboot you should just build a 470 Mbogo and use it.
Happy New Year
Dave

EXCELLENT advice

quote:

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:


458 Gumboot you should just build a 470 Mbogo and use it.
Happy New Year
Dave

======================================Dave I have thot about it long and hard ,., If GS didn,t make the 450 gr HV ,s in .510 , I may stay @ 475 cal ,,, ,,.The 460 really is a must being as I can get the rifle up and running for 500 $ or less...........Haveing missed TOO MANY opportunities by haveing only a short range rifle , I need 400 yard capabilities ......We don,t have gunbearers up here .......I so much appreciate RIP posting his target of his long range shooting with his 510 JAB.....If I can get soccer ball size or smaller groups @ 400 yrds with my rifles and still have a relatively lively rifle @ 10-20 foot when things go to slow motion , and the raw power to decapitate a 1500 lb animal ....I will feel I have done well .......I may not get the head completely off , but at least crush it .. The 460 is the easiest way to go play with that kind of power and the 500 is a personal historical favorite ....

500gr XLC at 2500 hammered the eland on my website... from Dave's rifle, at 200 yards, off hand and open sites.

My switch barrels all go on hand tight and I use a simple set screw to make sure they don't move. I studied much more elaborate approaches that certainly cost more but didn't add anything. If you go with a single stack mag box, I would think these cartridges are so similar that there would not be any feeding problems. A 470 MBOGO should also work. You might want to have a assortment of scopes with QD rings for each caliber. Make all the barrel contours exactly the same and use the same barrel mounted recoil lug system on each barrel. My switchbarrel M700 goes from 30-06 to 450Ackley with the same action and two bolts. I have a separate scope for each one and lock-up is hand tight only. POI maybe shifts .5 inches per barrel change.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I have a TL-1 now and yes it runs fine.
Bridger made all their bullets on a SL-10 and John says he was able to hold tolerences pretty well. I have tons of time so that isn't a big factor right now. Yes a swiss screw machine would be great, but I also have other things I want to make besides bullets, like precision RC helicopter parts. Maybe I'll start making 45-70 lever action DGR's too. There seems to be a niche opening up. Do you think I could learn to make those special Hard-Cast bullets that kill game too?-Rob

Excellent Idea Rob!

When you start making the .45-70 DGR lever could you make one for me patterned after the Blaser R93 Duo?!?!?

A .45-70 DOUBLE - lever!!!

Rob,
Could you post a picture of your switchbarrel setup?
I am planning to do a 300 Lapua on a Satterlee action and would like to be able to switch barrel it to 500 Mbogo for 1000-yard Hunter Class competition in Reno if I ever make it there.

This will be my second 500 Mbogo and I want to try out a 1:12" twist to more precisely match the rps of a 15" twist 50BMG.

I would also like to do a gain-twist .338 Lapua that finishes up with a 7" twist for GSC's .338/295grain/2.2"-long SP bullet.

300 Lapua 10"
338 Lapua 7"
500 Mbogo 12"

Which do you think will win?

Well, 2008 is going to be the year of the .425 Fossdal. Spec's can be found in the ammoguide.com

I know this one is way to small for some of you guys, but 400 grs, .423 at 2150fps is an old recipee, now to be had from the '06 bolt head, burnibg less powder to go there than ever.

Here shown 6mm to short, in between the .458WinMag and the 10,75x68.


Reamer is ordered, so is cases and tools.
We will be shooting by the end of february.

Bent,
I like it! Not as well as my soon-to-be-built 400/.395 Nitro Express, but I do like it.

No new cartridges,

It is time to load what I have (40 different cartridges from .223 to 470 NE).

LD

RIP- Love to have you but I think hunter class has to be .50BMG. You could shoot the .500 Mbogo off the ground in Unlimited though. It would be fun and you'll probably do only marginally worse than everyone else 9 that is a compliment by the way). I'll put a bipod on my heavy class gun you know the one with 38lbs of powder through the barrel and we can pull targets for each other! Good move on the 1:12 you'll still lose till you go to 1:15 but it will be fun. Heck make a 1:1`5 for your switchbarrel and shoot both days with both twists. You gotta watch the flags and mirage at RENO or you might cross onto my target. 20mph crosswinds are the norm there. Good news is the 1000yrd targets stay put at 1000 yards.Matches are in April and August.Check the FCSA website for dates. I'll buy you a beer and maybe a steak. If you win I will forever shoot 1:10 twist guns particularily in my mighty 45-70 guide gun, blessed by none other than Vince Lupo himself. I have his photo laser engraved on my stock with a corinthian leather pad for good luck!
I've deceided that from now on I am a 45-70 convert. Hard cast lead at 1500fps is the answer. Everything else is just hype. Buff/Ele watch out Rob is coming with a 45-70 Marlin on steroids. Oh that was a bad dream.I just woke up. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
RIP- Love to have you but I think hunter class has to be .50BMG. You could shoot it off the ground in Unlimited though. It would be nfun and probably do only marginally worse than everyone else. 20mph crosswinds are the norm there.Matches are in April and August.Check the FCSA website for dates. I'll buy you a beer and maybe a steak.
I've deceided that from now on I am a 45-70 convert. Hard cast lead at 1500fps is the answer. Everything else is just hype. Buff/Ele watch out Rob is coming with a 45-70 Marlin on steroids. Oh that was a bad dream.I just woke up. -Rob

Is my 45-70 Double Lever finished yet Rob?!?!?

Macifej- I'm welding as fast as I can! Give me a break. Its hard to line up both actions exactly.My super glue doesn't work well and won't hold till I run a Bugger-bead down the barrels. I think one is goona shoot high and the other low! Where is my hammer? I squeezed the lever together and welded them so they work flawlessly. I think we are on to something here. oops burned through one lever. Where is my old coat hanger wire.It will look great when its properly dremeled and buffed out!--Rob

quote:

I think one is goona shoot high and the other low! Where is my hammer?--Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Macifej- I'm welding as fast as I can! Give me a break. Its hard to line up both actions exactly.My super glue doesn't work well and won't hold till I run a Bugger-bead down the barrels. I think one is goona shoot high and the other low! Where is my hammer? I squeezed the lever together and welded them so they work flawlessly. I think we are on to something here. oops burned through one lever. Where is my old coat hanger wire.It will look great when its properly dremeled and buffed out!--Rob

those slab sided actions will be great for this idea...

have a single lever that cycles both rounds in unison and double triggers... some welding, bondo, zip ties and duct tape and this would be fun...

remember the double pump shotgun???

One lever, two triggers Rob? You are a genius!!!
Great idea to finish cutting off one of those levers and make an extension to work both actions with one lever.

Keep both triggers at same LOP, right and left, side-by-side, just like the barrels!

This way the typical Marlin user will not be confused about which trigger fires which barrel.

Double SxS barrels AND triggers.

This will make it easier to double-discharge, the only way to get the needed foot-pounds out of a Marlin 45-70!

Double levers are tough to regulate. I got it now. Pipe wrench conterclockwise on the left barrel and clockwise on the right. 1:15 twister.
Weldem together and proof with Buffalo Bore bullets. I get perfect dispersion 6ft left on the left barrel and 6ft right on the right. Now clamp em and one more weld and your done. I'll pretty it upwith a rib top and bottom off of my old damacus shotgun! Gotta grind those ugly sights off though I'll TIG that in place and grind it right! Off to the reblue tanks tomorrow! Africa Monday! I will not be outdone by Vince Lupo! 45-70 with Hard Cast bullets forever. You will all believe then!-Rob