Now then....this should really get good.


Alf, I follow your logic and I'm sure RIP will as well. It takes only the most subtle thing to justify a "Rifle in Progress". I hope I do not have to justify any of my projects!!If so I am is some trouble. I always enjoy your input and comments on these things.

gduffey

Alf,

Gerard Posted 22 December 2006 14:48
"What do we get that we do not have or have access to already?
In one practical hunting rifle we get:
Something different.
More reach than a .375H&H,
More close range ability than a 375.
Less recoil than a 416 Remigby.
1000 m/yd varminting.
An excuse for another rifle."

Gerard Posted 27 December 2006 20:39
"The 400s are all slower twist specs and there is much evidence that tighter twist rates deliver better linear penetration. (Before someone quotes reams of paper at me proving that gyroscopic stability plays no role in penetration of tissue, it is because of the higher stability on transition from flight to tissue.)

So the 400 calibers would do well as long range firearms, if case capacity were greater. The linear penetration of a 1:12" twist 395 will be more reliable than that of a 14" or 16" twist with the same length of bullet. If the 400 is running longer bullets, the 395 will have an even greater advantage."

To this we may add:
Easy availability of reasonably priced brass for both the 395GSC and the 395 Tatanka.

quote:

Now you have a 40 cal in 338LM, is this a DG rifle or is it a long range rifle?

It is both and a plains game rifle too.

quote:

When you glow and speak of many many fps's on this just think where you will go with a 416 Weaterby and one of these bullets? Geez welding rod !

A 340gr .395 will outfly a 330gr .416 any day. The 416 Weatherby twist is slower and bullets have to be shorter if similar terminal ballistics are required. This puts a crimp on delivery of power downrange compared to a .395

quote:

In Gerard's proposed format we have a "true 40" on a 375 H&H based case, how is that compared say a 416 Rem mag, or simply a 375 Weatherby mag,

A 1:12" twist .395 with 340gr bullets will deliver more power more reliably to the target animal than a .416. A 375Wea Mag with a 300gr bullet will not match the terminal ballistics of a 340gr .395 bullet.

quote:

You see if you put the same Long range bullet options into any of our existing cartridges, 338LM, 375 Weatherby etc etc you will get the same if not better LR capabilities.

Not a chance. The best long range cartridges are all substantially larger than .338 and .375. As is the .395.

quote:

A final point is that you have one single bullet Supplier sitting in a geographical location that is precarious in terms of supply. What if that supply is cut off....... you will be sitting with a 395 What? a very expensive crowbar?

We have been making bullets since 1993. The only way to cut of the supply is to send someone to shoot the entire family. The intellectual property is well protected and, as you have pointed out, if you have access to that property, you can make the bullets anywhere in the world. As a matter of interest: Is there another single manufacturer that produces two types of hunting bullets from .224 to .550, a range of DG solids from .25 to .550, and a range of competition bullets from .224 to .50"? No matter what long gun you shoot, we have a bullet that will get the job done.

Come on Alf, chill, pour a cold one, kick up your feet and put the bad week you had behind you.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Alf,

Gerard Posted 22 December 2006 14:48
"What do we get that we do not have or have access to already?
In one practical hunting rifle we get:
Something different.
More reach than a .375H&H,
More close range ability than a 375.
Less recoil than a 416 Remigby.
1000 m/yd varminting.
An excuse for another rifle."

Gerard Posted 27 December 2006 20:39
"The 400s are all slower twist specs and there is much evidence that tighter twist rates deliver better linear penetration. (Before someone quotes reams of paper at me proving that gyroscopic stability plays no role in penetration of tissue, it is because of the higher stability on transition from flight to tissue.)

So the 400 calibers would do well as long range firearms, if case capacity were greater. The linear penetration of a 1:12" twist 395 will be more reliable than that of a 14" or 16" twist with the same length of bullet. If the 400 is running longer bullets, the 395 will have an even greater advantage."

To this we may add:
Easy availability of reasonably priced brass for both the 395GSC and the 395 Tatanka.

quote:

Now you have a 40 cal in 338LM, is this a DG rifle or is it a long range rifle?

It is both and a plains game rifle too.

quote:

When you glow and speak of many many fps's on this just think where you will go with a 416 Weaterby and one of these bullets? Geez welding rod !

A 340gr .395 will outfly a 330gr .416 any day. The 416 Weatherby twist is slower and bullets have to be shorter if similar terminal ballistics are required. This puts a crimp on delivery of power downrange compared to a .395

quote:

In Gerard's proposed format we have a "true 40" on a 375 H&H based case, how is that compared say a 416 Rem mag, or simply a 375 Weatherby mag,

A 1:12" twist .395 with 340gr bullets will deliver more power more reliably to the target animal than a .416. A 375Wea Mag with a 300gr bullet will not match the terminal ballistics of a 340gr .395 bullet.

quote:

You see if you put the same Long range bullet options into any of our existing cartridges, 338LM, 375 Weatherby etc etc you will get the same if not better LR capabilities.

Not a chance. The best long range cartridges are all substantially larger than .338 and .375. As is the .395.

quote:

A final point is that you have one single bullet Supplier sitting in a geographical location that is precarious in terms of supply. What if that supply is cut off....... you will be sitting with a 395 What? a very expensive crowbar?

We have been making bullets since 1993. The only way to cut of the supply is to send someone to shoot the entire family. The intellectual property is well protected and, as you have pointed out, if you have access to that property, you can make the bullets anywhere in the world. As a matter of interest: Is there another single manufacturer that produces two types of hunting bullets from .224 to .550, a range of DG solids from .25 to .550, and a range of competition bullets from .224 to .50"? No matter what long gun you shoot, we have a bullet that will get the job done.

Come on Alf, chill, pour a cold one, kick up your feet and put the bad week you had behind you.

/

Alf you're killing the mood! Squashing the dream!!!
My wife can attest to the fact that common sense and myself parted directions waaaay back!
It's going to happen whether Rip's supported or not.
When reamers and barrels are made, it'll be trial and error.

Thanks to Gerard for stepping up to bat another homer on that knuckle ball from Alf, again!

Alf, if you gotta ask the same questions over and over, and get the same answers that were as eloquent the next time as the last, then I think you are just .

Actually it is about making history, whether just a footnote or something more. It is about blazing a new trail, in the pioneer spirit. To go where no man has gone before. (Star Trek theme starts here).

Thanks for the idea for the next .395 GSC thread.

/

Alf,
You are not getting the "Big Picture." You cannot see the forest for the trees. We are claiming nothing superior or unique in any one area of rifle paper ballistics or practical field application.

What we have here is the ultimate in versatility with well more than the minimum legal DG punch, and the unique Trio of .395 bullets from GSC that make all things possible with either a .395 GSC or .395 Tatanka:

.395/340gr HV/FN/SP: 2600 to 2800 fps, your choice of speed depending on barrel length and cartridge.

HV soft point with high BC for large or small game near or far.

FN solid for anything that solids are good for.

SP "special purpose" paper puncher and varmint blaster out to 1000 yards: no problem.

Rest assured, GSC can make a .395 bullet both accurate and a good terminal performer.

These .395's are like .308's on steroids. More than enough for anything, and a perfect balance of bullet mass and caliber to maximize performance without too much recoil price to be paid in the form of too heavy a rifle or flinchitis!

I admit it does have a shortcoming in only one bullet source right now, but when Wilbur and Orville started flying, they had only one airplane!

We are making history here Alf. (Theme from Star Trek)

Where no man has gone before. I'll change the thread title again just for you: ".395 GSC and .395 Tatanka: Star Trek to Alf"

BTW, Dave Manson has Gerard's reamer drawing. Harry Mcgowen has Gerard's barrel order, and mine. Gerard has my bullet order. Gerard is drawing up my .395 Tatanka reamer specs for the next helpful submission to Dave Manson Precision Reamers.

And sometimes even pioneers have to twiddle their thumbs.

/

Captain Rip to Scottie:

Beam Alf up to the bridge and have Mr. Spock run the numbers for him, to include explanations of how a .395 GSC and .395 Tatanka differ from the "390 Vickers," and about the .395 being closer to a 10.0mm, not a 10.5mm, and remind him of how the the 9.5x73 M&G was just a more slope-shouldered version of Saeed's .375/404J. Point out that there has never been a .395 grooved barrel and bullet combination for a sporting rifle before, so the new .395's of 2007 AD (Old Earth calendar) are unique.

Also have Mr. Spock do a Vulcan Mind Meld on Dr. Alf and see if he can psychoanalyze for the roots of Alf's pessimism, lack of adventure, and lack of pioneering spirit, e.g., was it insufficient breastfeeding or too severe potty training as an infant? Then, see if you can get Dr. Spock back through a time warp to deal with Dr. Alf, in consultation with Bones and Mr. Spock.

Out.

And seriously, Alf, could you give me a rundown on the "390 Vickers?" That one escapes me at the moment. ... Oh! You mean the .383 Vickers (Manton) that is essentially a slightly shortened .404 Jeffery (2.7500" case) necked to .390 caliber bullet with a 14 degree shoulder and 0.35" long neck, on page 312 of Dr. Howell's book? Kynoch drawing, 1922.

If so, what can I say? I say that there was no GSC Trio of bullets for the .383 Vickers of .390 caliber, back in 1922.

And yes, as a "long-ranger," any .416/340grain bullet would be inferior to the .395/340grain SP that Gerard has designed. One would have to make the .416 bullet a little heavier and suffer more because of it's increased recoil at same speed in same weight rifle.

And what do you expect me to say about a 1:7" twist? Let's not go there again, please.

It's 1:12" for the .395's on the drawing board.

Ron,
ONE name, please..

398 Lapua works just fine

Mr RIP:

you is done gettin brainier every day...learnt to take one somebody on he kin whup and have the clan there to back he up!!

ALF: there is a very big (proportionally speaking) gap between .375" and .411-.416". Boomer and RIP are splitting the difference and providing an excuse to build something "waaaaay cool and different". This cartrdige is going to fly, and I expect it to harvest everything in the DG ranks but Rhino this calendar year.
Get on board, or step aside, the train is leaving the station.

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Rich,
We make no promises on the timeline. Just looking to get the job done by a few good men. Semper Fidelis.

Jeffe,
Calling it the "398 Lapua Magnum" is the honest thing to do, as it is simply the .338 Lapua Magnum necked up to .395. I will do that for the first one, on a CZ 550 Magnum action, as the shop mule to get the bugs out. This makes for easy headstamp match by changing "338" to "398."
The .395 Tatanka is still grazing in a field of dreams, outstanding in its field. "Build it and they will come." Meaning the proper brass cases later.

The first .395 wildcat reamer to my specs will be called "398 Lapua Magnum."

The .395 GSC is Gerard Schultz's wildcat, and is the first .395 wildcat ever.

I will reserve the "Tatanka" name for the next wildcat, and it will be something unique based on the .416 Rigby basic case. The .395 Tatanka will be something akin to the "400 Mbogo," an air cartridge of mine.

And we all owe the term "air cartridge" to Rich, as it relates to the .395 Ruger, released to the gun trade, gratis, on this forum, in late 2006.

Alf,

It simply gives Ron something to do with is off time. His wildcat is, just as you suggest, is a duplicity of effort.

Wrestle with a POSeur and all you get is smeared by a POS. Ignore mode on, FINALLY.

Also, for the record, Mike McGuire mentioned the .395 H&H in July 2001 only to disparage the idea.

Back to reality:

I know the .375 Weatherby can do 2600 fps with a 350-grainer from a 24" barrel without blowing any gaskets.

So, what velocity will Gerard get with a 26" barrel and the .395/340grain SP loaded long, single-shot fashion, from his .395 GSC (.395/.375H&H-Improved-40-degree), with pressure of 63,800 psi max average?

We'll find out eventually.

quote:

You see ballistics follow the basic rules of internal combustion ( as we all know) , for each piston size there is an optimum cilinder capacity

If you are comparing rifles to internal combustion engines, the above does not hold water. The biggest difference is that the bullet is not hauled back down the bore and then pushed up again. Also, piston size (cylinder bore diameter) has no "optimum" cylinder capacity. Optimum cylinder capacity (for a given piston diameter) depends on what you want to do with the engine.

quote:

Gerard has not even come close Please show me the numbers!

OK. It is easier to to go faster (in relative terms) with larger calibers than with smaller ones. So, if we peg a target speed of between 2600fps and 2700fps, this can be achieved with an 8x68S with 220gr bullets but a 9.3x64 will do it with 286gr bullets. A 338RUM does it with a 275gr bullet but a 458 Lott will do it with a 375gr bullet. A 338LM can do it with a 300gr bullet but a 460 ASquare Short will do it with 450gr bullets.

This tells us two things: To deliver more power to a target we must increase case capacity (to go faster) and/or we must increase the bore size. If case capacity is similar, the larger bore delivers more power. If bore sizes are the same, the larger case capacity delivers more power.

In all examples the length of the bullet is limited by the CIP twist rate and this will cap the bullet weight at the low end, as is the case with the 9.3x62 and the 416 Rigby.

Using the above examples and comparing the 338LM with a 395 Tatanka, the 395 will run a heavier bullet at the same speed as the 338. It does not matter by how much, what is under discussion is whether it is better.

So an FN style bullet from a 395 will be heavier and of larger diameter while speed is the same. The outcome is obvious.

With an HV bullet the same applies and, if similarly constructed bullets are used, the 395 wil deliver a bullet over the same trajectory as a 338, but the 395 bullet will have more momentum and energy. Once again the outcome is obvious.

With long range bullets a 395 will match a 338LM not better it.

The 395 wins two and draws one and takes the trophy home.

If we start tuning both calibers for case capacity, barrel length and twist rate, the 395 will draw ahead of the 338 but that is not the purpose of the caliber. It is an all rounder.

quote:

By that token then a 416 -338 Lapua should be better or a 458 338 lapua should be the best?

If you tighten up on the twist rates from what is traditionally used for 416s and 458s, yes. Otherwise, no.

quote:

In the DG department I also ask how? Please show me what a 40 cal brings to the table that a 423 416 or 411 does not already do.

411s, 416s and 423 are all specified at slower twist rates and bullet weight is capped thereby. A 395 at 1:12" twist will deliver more power in FN and HV style bullets than the others, by virtue of heavier bullets at similar or higher speeds. A 395 Tatanka has a case capacity of 115gr. That is more than that of a 416 Rem Mag or a 458 Lott. The 395 bullet will go deeper and straighter than any of the +400s you mentioned.

quote:

I mean if you are claiming speed well then just take the 416 Rigby or Weatherby and you have more than enough horses to go the war with.

The price you will pay for those extra horses is much more recoil and, due to the twist rate limits on bullet length, the 395 will be better at longer ranges. Following this line of reasoning (increasing case capacity), we should then start considering the 416 Barret and 50BMG for inclusion in this discussion.

quote:

How would this be different to say a 390 Vickers? ( .390 - 404 of 1921) or Miller & Greiss's 9.5 x73 or M&G's 10.5 x 73

Availability and cost of brass.

quote:

In fact if you shoot a 340 gr 416 long range bullet from a Rigby or Weatherby you would also be making history or not?

You would not be making history but you would suffer more recoil unless you brake it and you would have to go to a tighter custom twist to get the bullets into the same BC class as the 395.

quote:

398 Lapua works just fine

It should be 395 or 387. Anything else is not correct and only acceptable because of existing headstamps.

RIP,

Sorry to have offended you. The facts are still the facts however. Have a nice day and good luck with your latest wildcat.

What took you guys so long to ignore Alf??? He doesn't TROLL my pages. Packy

RIP,
Just noticed you said to Alf:

"And what do you expect me to say about a 1:7" twist? Let's not go there again, please."

As a matter of interest, this is the only way for a 338LM to significantly better the 395 and some others in long range work. It takes that much twist to stabilise a 295gr SP bullet in a 338LM and Pasi Lonnberg and Tom Marsti have been proving this point since 2004. The rifle is a Sako TRG with a Walther 1:7" barrel. IIRC they also won the competition in 2006 with this combo albeit with bullets from KJG now.

Now, if we neck up a 378 Weatherby Magnum to 395 and fit a 1:7" barrel..........

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

Now, if we neck up a 378 Weatherby Magnum to 395 and fit a 1:7" barrel..........

Gerard,
Then you would have to come up with some heavier bullets even longer than long to make best use of that combination, and we would have to call that one the .398 WM for headstamp modification purposes.

For now, I am quite happy with seeing the more modest .398 LM and .395 GSC come to fruition with 1:12" twist barrels and 340-grain GSC bullets. The ultimate all-arounders.

I expect the .395 GSC to get an easy 2700 fps with a 26" barrel, using the 340-grain bullets, with a powder somewhere around Varget-H4350 burn rate.

Keep up the good work.

thanks RIP,

I knew the phrase "air cartridge" had legs, but didn't even realize it had wings and would fly. I am thinking, since Fla3006 sold me that pristine 1917 Remington I might build my 395 on the 505 Gibbs case shortened to 2.75"...just kidding!!! I follow the progress with happy thoughts for you and BoomStick. This is even better than finding out that NOW!! you can get curly fries at no extra cost with combo meals!

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Gerard,
The .398 Lapua will only be about 10% greater in capacity than the .395 GSC.

So if the .395 GSC gets 2700 fps, then the .398 Lapua only gets 2767.5 fps with the same 340-grain bullet in the same length barrel.

Reality bites!

That Lapua brass is thick and heavy, short and fat, and I can load them longer in the tooth in a Rigby length box, or even load the SP's out to close to 4.000" COL single-shot fashion, whatever the throat will allow.

Maybe 2800 fps from a 26" barrel is possible with the 340-grainer in a .398 Lapua. We'll see.

That goal might be reached by having Horandy load and advertize it, soon as they get finished with the .375 Ruger.

2700 fps should be no sweat with either .395 GSC (26" barrel) or .398 Lapua (24" barrel). That seems to be the ideal velocity for general purpose use anyway. Just my SWAG.

I wondered if GSC had any ideas on expected velocity with the .395 GSC and 340-grainers? I know those driving bands can be different from a solid shank bullet, and I doubt that any of the internal ballistic programs commonly available do them justice, not even Alf's. Yank, yank.

Rich,
I am not interested in a .395 Chey-Tac-Short. Glad you are only kidding on that one! I'd get hives just like Alf would over that one!

It does seem that the .395 Tatanka might have to be a take-off from the 400 Mbogo "air cartridge." Your terminology does have wings, and these .395 pigs shall fly:

.395 GSC
.398 LM
.395 Tatanka

One more for The Gipper.
Semper Fidelis.

/

Alf,
I estimate the full-blown .398 LM to be very close to 119.5 grains gross water capacity for a case length of 2.724". Note that the Lapua case I measured weighed 341.8 grains in empty brass weight, a bit heavier that the .395/378 Weatherby (323.9 grains) that was 2.907" long after necking up, and would hold 136.4 grains gross water.

My .375/.338 LM brass was fireformed from .338 LM, then necked up to .395, and in the process shortened to 2.692": 118.4 grains water capacity gross.

I then use a displacement of 31.00 grains of water per each 1 inch of .395 bullet seated to calculate the 2.724" water capacity, roughly.

I cannot say for sure what the .395 GSC is but estimate it to be close to 109 grains gross water capacity. That would be for Gerard to say, after he has actually fire-formed a case to measure.

Land diameter is 0.387" and bore diameter is 0.395". I do not know the widths of the lands but I think it will be six-groove rifling when it arrives. Of course to really fine tune the expansion ratio, we should factor in the freebore diameter and length, and the leade, don't you think? You can find that on Gerard's .395 GSC reamer drawing. Assume the same throat for the .398 LM.

I must warn you that I do not place much stock in the currently available software for arriving at velocities, pressures, or powder charges required, due to all the "between guns" and "within gun" variables, and especially the bullet variables encountered in comparing, say, a Swift A-Frame (full bearing, full diameter shank with hard partition amidship) to a GSC HV
with true driving bands gripping and inter-band space boreriding.

If you really think it worthwhile, then calculate away, and I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Or we'll just shoot'em and see what we get, compare notes later.

If you insist, you'll need to have the bullet measurements from the Blog thread to play with too (see below).

There may be less difference than I guess between the .395 GSC and the .398 LM when all is said and done.

Hence the need for a radically different .395 Tatanka to earn its new name and not be so redundant.


395340HV -
Bullet Length - 45.10mm 1.776"
Nose Length - 20.00mm 0.787"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .560

395340FN -
Nose Length - 15.38mm 0.606"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500fps - .155

395340SP -
Bullet Length - 48.25mm 1.900"
Nose Length - 27.05mm 1.065"
Weight - 340gr
BC @2500 fps - .701
BC @2800 fps - .722

/

Alf,
CUP!!! AARRGGHH !!!
Where no man has gone before ... On planet 395 no one has ever calibrated a copper crusher for any .395 cartridge, so CUP is like from another galaxy in a parallel universe. Data beamed over through a wormhole?

I have been similarly disappointed in the past with such calculations and ended up doing 200 fps better than calculated, using larger charges of powder than predicted, and having no pressure indications. Two different rifles can be 200 fps apart with the same load, in the same universe!

The .398 LM and .395 GSC can both add net case capacity by seating the bullets out and loading them single-shot fashion, so as to allow the GSC Driving Band Mojo to shine.

I have a hunch rhat I will need full case loads of Varget or compressed charges of H4350 to max out pressure and velocity. Hoping for 2800 fps with the .395/340gr SP from a 26" barrel (and pressures around 62,300 PSI NOT CUP!!!) I'll start at 76 grains of Varget and 84 grains of H4350 and work up.

If the .398 LM doesn't make 2800 fps from a 26" barrel, then the "New .395 Tatanka" will.

Thanks for running the numbers, Alf.

Alf,
You have reminded me that I need to send off for the disc to update my AccuLoad. Thanks. On the old version I have, the slower powders do much better, and show a velocity up to 2690 fps (26" .398 LM) with the 340 grainers loaded long and pressures right about 62,500 PSI.

Not to belabor this with too many details, but I shall modify my powder trials to possibly include:

H1000: 94 to 104 GRAINS
IMR 7828: 91 to 101
MRP: 91 to 101
RL22: 91 to 101
H870: 91 to 101
N160: 86 to 95
N560: 86 to 95
H4831SC: 86 to 95
N150: 80 to 89
N550: 80 to 89
H4350 Extreme: 81 to 90
Varget: 72 to 80

I'll start with a midrange load of the above and expect to exceed the maximums, working up one grain at a time. The limiting factors will be do I have the powder, and will it fit in the case without too much compression. Most surely will.

My take from previous experience is that the GSC banded bullets will require heavier charges and/or faster powders and deliver higher velocities at max pressures than the software predicts.

Something about new rules?

Great work, I love watching these things progress. If I pay attention I might learn something.
-Josh

teroenza,
Thanks. Maybe you'll find this earth shaking development interesting too.

.395 Tatanka Reborn:

.416 Rigby with shoulder changed to 20 degrees instead of 45. Shoulder starts at 2.353" from base and ends at 2.505" from base.

That leaves exactly 0.395" of neck length before end of the cartridge brass at 2.900" from base.

It was meant to be.
It combines the Rigby base and length with the .338 Lapua Magnum shoulder and a caliber length neck for .395 caliber bullets.

This one is deserving of the .395 Tatanka name.

Starting loads will probably be the max loads shown above.

Stay the course RIP. Everything else will come out in the wash!

.395 GSC
398 LM
.395 Tatanka

A trio of wildcats, for that trio of bullets.

Semper fi, do or die.

Yep! Sounds good!! However, I think you need an ultrareliable slick feeder. A .395 that looks like an '06.

.366torque:

That is exactly what the .395 Tatanka is, an oversized .30-06 (more like an 8mm-06 on growth hormone).

It retains the Lapua and Rigby body taper (identical) along with the 20 degree "slick" shoulder of the Lapua.

It could be made bigger by blowing out the body taper and sharpening the shoulder, but this one is designed for slick feeding, so the design is now written in stone: .395 Tatanka

The 398 Lapua is still like an 8x57mm Mauser on steroids. Slick feeder too.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
.366torque:

That is exactly what the .395 Tatanka is, an oversized .30-06 (more like an 8mm-06 on growth hormone).

It retains the Lapua and Rigby body taper (identical) along with the 20 degree "slick" shoulder of the Lapua.

It could be made bigger by blowing out the body taper and sharpening the shoulder, but this one is designed for slick feeding, so the design is now written in stone: .395 Tatanka

The 398 Lapua is still like an 8x57mm Mauser on steroids. Slick feeder too.

That sounds like a masterpiece Mr. RIP!

Dr. RIP would be a little funnier, but you can call me Rip. No "mister" needed.

/

Alf,
Please call me Rip, or Ron.
You are just teasing me now with that old P.O. Ackley hyperbolic data. The .404 Barnes Supreme velocity is hyped badly.

BTW, I have a .416 Barnes Supreme, and a .450 Barnes Supreme, and they won't do anything near what was claimed in the same source you found the above data.

Rest in peace, 2800 fps with a .395/340-grainer will be acheived ... one of these days.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Dr. RIP would be a little funnier, but you can call me Rip. No "mister" needed.

OK! Over played it, but still I like the slick feeding concept! Keep the faith & the good work!