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Jeffe, Man you done good my boy. I see another switch barrel in my future. What a powerful package in a STD length action. The middle bores will really be another accomplishment altogether. I'm hooked on the switch barrel idea. You loose one round in the mag capacity but in truth how many times have you ever really needed 4 shots without a chance to reload. Don't pass on the 308 cal just because there are so many 30 mags. It's a useful proven caliber and then to have it as an option on a switch barrel rifle simply makes the gun more useful. IMHO All around kudos for you. Fastest turnaround time I ever heard of from concept to bang. Really nicely done. John | |||
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Jeffe, Got the PM, Thanks. Your right, Fred z has nothing to do with the Hawk bullets. Bob Fulton created Hawk bullets and sold the company to Andy. Bob also created the 375 Hawk (9.3x62 necked up to 375) and renamed 375 Scovill and the 411 Hawk, while he owned Hawk Bullets. After selling that company, He helped Mike develope a bullet we now call Northfork. Fred developed the rest of the Hawk line of cartridges as we know them today. He builds a lot of 411 Hawks. I agree, he is a great guy. Snapper | |||
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I emailed Pac Nor asking them if they had reamers for the AR's and they said no. Thought they did? My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Sorry SN, I thought this was clear... Tom is doing the first couple, as several people want the AR rounds and may or may not have a barrel. If they have a barrel, the turn around time is fast, and pacnor won't barrel someone else's barrel. After those upfront people have their barrels/actions finished, the reamers will be going there jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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My mistake. Thanks for clearing it up. Just wished the Rugers I ordered would come in! My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Just popping in on this as I'm still interested in doing this down the road apiece ---  As far as brass goes, will it be available already necked up? Is this round STILL going to be called a 'traditional' .470, or is ' .475 ' a possibility? ( I maintain the ' .475 ' moniker is worthy ) As Remington is reported to be working a deal to import the ZASTAVA / Serbian Mauser actions that "Charles Daly" gave up...I'd be thinking of getting one of these rifles, or bbl'd/actions, if they become available, for this future project. DID I MENTION?... " .475 " would be extremely impressive stamped on the bbl.? I keep mentioning the caliber designation in regard to one of my previous posts. That being the majority of 'standard size action' rifle owners WILL be Americans with hunting rifles they'd spend the money on just to have the BIG BORE. Cater to these guys and you've got a market niche. Call it a .470 and it'll sound like '8mm' to them. "EURO" doesn't sell well in the USA. Call it a .475 and it'll sound like "BIG, whatever you said!" I couldn't be more serious, with all due respect. Think of what the Gun Magazines would do with: NEW .475! Thanks for all the work done on this project. Nomenclature notwithstanding, it's a helluva venture, and I'll be glad to kick in when the time comes. ____________________________________________ Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"? "...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..." Former FFL Dealer NAHC Life Member NRA Endowment/Life Member Remington Society of America Member Hunter in Training | |||
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____________________________________________ Did I mention, "I REALLY LIKE GUNS"? "...I don't care what you decide or how much you pay for it..." Former FFL Dealer NAHC Life Member NRA Endowment/Life Member Remington Society of America Member Hunter in Training | |||
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He's got a point there. Its a 475 Linebaugh, not a 470. Go figure. If you really want it to stand out, get the cal stamp gold inletted!! | |||
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Busmaster, Man, I appreciate your enthusiasm!!! We are working on the brass... but it's pretty simple to make from .375 rum brass let's compare 45/70 vs 30-06 .. Neither of these are accurate in any sense for caliber (they do denote BP weight and year of make, but not the same thing in both which is confusing) 45 / 70 -- .458 (not .450) bullet, and 70 gr of BP .. 45 colt (lc added later) .. .451 bullet ... 30 -06 -- .308 (not .300) bullet, and redesigned in 1906... I don't think cartidge designation will really confuse people any more than the gun world already has Here's a gun site to pook around on to see who named what with what groove http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/Bullets.html Bauska and Pacnor make goot .475 barrels ...\ Gixxer recall that zero African rifles with .475 XXX for a name are a .475 barrel, they are all larger. As abritrary as american naming conventions ... besides, I don't think we want to name a DGR after a pistol round jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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.470 AR sound very "PERFECT" to me. Jeffe can you post a link to Bauska? Thanks, Frank | |||
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I am a bit mystified as to why the great nay-sayer rip has not weighed in to congratulate you on your success and be a man and admit he may have been ruh-ruh-ruh-wrong about this venture. C'mon rip, let's hear it from the man! Rich | |||
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Rich, RIP is a gentleman, and said congrats on another thread were we were dicussing the 404/423 dakota. Please, let's not go negative.. he's working on a totally different footprint for his rounds, and there's no real overlap jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I just learned of these new rounds. From what I understand, I can take my M70 Classic Stainless .300 Win. Mag and re-barrel it to the .458 or .416 AR with no other modifications? Feeding is flawless and three in the magazine or two? I would assume I need a new stock and an additional recoild lug on the barrel. Could use the stock from my M70 push feed .375 H&H I suppose? | |||
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Lots of good questions.. how many does your win hold in 300 win? you may need to window the mag just to hold the third one, if you have 3 now. the feeding will, of course, require testing and followup, but it is anticipated that minimal work is needed. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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How much wood could a woodchuck chuck... oops sorry. if you really wanted to get 4 down, I am sure you could purchase aftermarket bottom metal to make sure you could fit 4 down at least. or, get real custom so you can get 5 down. Why? I have no freakin idea. But, that gets away from the whole inexpensive thing. It is all about how much money do you really want to spend to get the gun how YOU want it. | |||
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Not sure if you'd need a second lug on the barrel for the 416, but with the 458 it would definately be advisable. I'm thinking the 416 pushing a 350 gr 2600 fps would be the ultimate AK moose and bear gun, flat shooting, hard hitting, and about the only thing that you'd want more penetration on would be those pesky RV's that clog the Stirling Hwy in the summer  __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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 Thank you Jeffe, You are really doing it. HA!/DOA is just a description of my own hobby gun building for wildcats. Just information for anyone that wants it. It is just that without having all my prototypes completed, I cannot jump on your band wagon. More power to you. May the AR Line of cartridges take over the world.  I hope to see trophy photos of Paul H with a Winnebago bagged on the Kenai Peninsula soon. Those pesky Weeble-wobbles need some kind of controls on them. A midsummer season on them would be great.  | |||
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Ron, I think my long throated 500 Jeffrey pushing 690 gr AP's @ 2200 would be better suited to RV's I'm also thinking that the 500 will end up making a better tactical rifle, so I'll scrap the idea of making it a true DGR, I guess you could say I'm wimping out on all the work that will take __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I don't think there is an adequate powder supply up here to take out all the RV's on the Sterling Hwy. If they just made people take a driving test before they allowed them through the border or rent one, it would eliminate about 80% of them!!!! Seriously, I think you are correct in your thinking on the .416. I could probably get away with just putting it in an HS stock and forget the extra recoil lug. It would be a hell of a bear stomper!!! Who has the reamers, dies, etc? | |||
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Come on Paul I have one of those pesky RV's.My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Residents generally know how to drive up here Come on, I'm sure most folks up here have the occasionally fantasy of launhing a LAW rocket at an RV that's doing 30 mph on Seward with about 20 cars behind them as they gawk at Turnagain arm __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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Paul, I get it and understand you are not advocating anything unreasonable. I lived in Anchorage for 5 years. LAWS rockets ... | |||
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Went and shot with mjines this morning... Mike, 400 grains at 2300 in an 8.25# rifle is 66lb-ft 500 grains at 2150 in a 10.5# is 62 lb-ft just an fyi jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Pics from today's shoot posted on the Big Bore forum. For those thinking about the .470 AR round, accurate and the felt recoil is less than my .470 Nitro -- despite the light weight of Jeffe's rifle. I shot it twice with open sights at 50 yards, both rounds touching. Pretty intriguing round. Mike | |||
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glad to see the a.r. carts getting out there 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I know a lot of you guys call Hawk bullets "grenades", but would you use any of their 470cal bullets for... DEER?! Serious question. I guess Hornady XTP's would work too. If those XTP's were driven to 2300-2400, I wonder if they would desintigrate on shots within 100yd being hollow points and all. Any other ideas for inexpensive shooting bullets would be nice too. Man, I still have not shot that NIB 7mm Win super grade. Funny thing. My pops was like "Wow, that was a sensible purchase." Little does he know. I have been tellin him for a while I wanted a 470 Mbogo or an AR. Not that it matters, but I think he would not be pleasantly surprised if I had that super grade rebarreled for a snot kicker. | |||
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do it gixer! it wont matter on deer if the bullet comes apart... 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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WIP 470 AR -- it's still WET cheekpiece isn't nearly as big in person.. the stock is tipped okay, recall that the original working stock was the ruger factory stock, reinforced...  I've taken a GAG express pattern, reworked the cheek piece ALOT, recut the forearm ALOT (i think that there is enough saw dust for another stock from the forearm) cut the flutes into a decent line and this is the first soaker coat of oil on a Turkish quartersawn blank Grain runs from tip to pad... knife is a stek damascus   thoughts? oh, yeah, it picks up a wopping 8ozs 8#12oz with peepsight jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffe, now all you need is a 1lb LEAD forend tip.  Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Great! I like the Ruger. I like the knife. Next year, a .500 AR 2.5" in a Ruger? | |||
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I'd use the Hawk before I'd use the XTP. It will hold together better but either may ruin a lot of meat compared to a Woodleigh. For that matter, Barnes has a 275 gr .475 XBP pistol bullet that should excel on deer and pigs. Or you can go with their 500 gr .474 TSX. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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From the Hawk site. All bullets listed with .025 jackets are designed for use in low velocity rifles and single shot pistols, and deliver good expansion. Select a thicker jacket for higher velocities or larger, tougher game.  I think a lot of that comes from using the wrong jackets. The .025 jacket won't hold up to accelerated velocities whereas the .050 jackets will. They are definitely a "soft" and really expand but like any other tool, the correct application will have to be observed. Frank | |||
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I do love the action flats with small diamond shaped "pointer" on the stock. I have a savage 99 with that small embellishment. You know I might have put an ebony forend on it to "Whore" it up a bit. Very nice looking piece of wood that should hold up to just about any recoil. I also have the NECG peeps on two of my Rugers. It is very accurate. How do you like the firesight? I found the green to be better for my eye. Is your bolt ala the Enfield? Hard to tell from the photos but it looks different somehow. Great to see you are moving forward. After we talked I got out a did some shooting myself. Look forward to seeing this one finished. Frank | |||
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Frank, Thanks.. ebony tip and cap coming, tonight perhaps... I like getting it fairly close then work it on in... The red works.. the green works.... they happened to have had the low red on hand... so red it was. the bolt is factory... I like it!! filled the grain in and another coat of oil last night... so she's drying... pics don't even begin to do the wood justice jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I think it looks like it is really coming along nicely. I almost asked if you were selling it then remembered (a) I have too many unfinished projects going -- but not as many as you, (b) I've been spending money like a drunken sailor and that has to stop sometime, and (c) I don't reload!!! Heck -- it's a collector's item!  | |||
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Not that it matters  but the 458 and 470 a.r. I calculated are producing just over 6,000 ft lbs of energy. that should be plenty of smack down and at a small investment (except for jeffeossos time and skill)577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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