Howdy Guys...
Had to take the wife out after all the shop time I've been taking!!

Tried some win748 in the 458 and 470 ar's, which did not give the performance of wc844, so more chrono time coming.

what DID I find out?

1: an 8.24# 470 is, well, exciting
2: take the forend sling stud off!!
3: 400gr pistol bullets at 2350 are a fun plinking load
4: 500 grains in that rifle at 2000 are about the end of what you want in that weight.
5: win748 is not the powder of choice for the ARs

Next steps
tearing down win748 loads (fine for plinking loads)
rebuild with wc844/h335 and try again
go shoot!!

Snapper,
I believe it will fit, especially if the vanguard is a "standard" magnum bolt face and feeds well.

Frank,
You are right, i really didn't!!

jeffe

further thought...

on the 470, a pacnor #5 should be considered the MINIMUM barrel taper.. or it's too light

jeffe

Jeffe,

I'm seeing used ultra mags in gun stores now and think they would also make a good choice with the matching bolt face and already feed the ultra mag case.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

Snapper

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
1: an 8.24# 470 is, well, exciting
2: take the forend sling stud off!!
3: 400gr pistol bullets at 2350 are a fun plinking load
4: 500 grains in that rifle at 2000 are about the end of what you want in that weight.
5: win748 is not the powder of choice for the ARs
jeffe

Well, I haven't ever shot anything that heavy in anything so light, but it would be nice to be able to keep it under 10# and still get to 2300 fps comfortably.
Don't suppose you have any RL 19 & 22?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Howdy Guys...
Had to take the wife out after all the shop time I've been taking!!

Tried some win748 in the 458 and 470 ar's, which did not give the performance of wc844, so more chrono time coming.

what DID I find out?

1: an 8.24# 470 is, well, exciting
2: take the forend sling stud off!!
3: 400gr pistol bullets at 2350 are a fun plinking load
4: 500 grains in that rifle at 2000 are about the end of what you want in that weight.
5: win748 is not the powder of choice for the ARs

jeffe

Wow! Exciting, huh. That pretty much puts it into perspective as far as the recoil goes, coming from a guy that shoots other kickass stuff. I really want to make sure mine is over 10#. Minimum taper for a barrel? I'd be looking for the thickest taper that still has some form of weight balance with the rest of the rifle. BTW I found a Rem 7mm ADL new at Wally for $360. Theres where its at...

I am going to try for about 9.5 to 10... i'll "lead" up this stock, and then make certain the final stock gets the right weight.

Snapper,
you could certainly set the bullets out longer in the ultramag rifle.. get TSX's and crimp where you want

would be fun.


Seriously, though, 10# is going to be a decent weight... 9 to 10 probably fine.. ... and I am heading to that weight

jeffe

pics??? inquiring minds want to know

can you post the so far a.r. family all together

My first 458 Lott was 8 3/4#'s, 350's @ 2400-2500 weren't bad, 500's @ 2200-2300 were. My new lott is right around 10#'s, and 500's @ 2200 are shootable off the bench.

SOrry on the pics.. i'll find it, but right now, I can't find my camera!!!

jeffe

Congrats on your success so far! I've been watching this all develop with some real interest in the 416 slice of the AR pie. Glad to hear you made it happen!!!

Ever seen a water bottle taken with a muzzleloader?

in full charge?

with a 1.5" muzzleloader?

watch the middle post!!!


Video link on how Bubbas stop charging oil bottles


The first 470 AR

Ruger 77 mkII 7remmag
rebarrel
dovetail and solder recoil lug on barrel
feeding is great
open box for "RUM" windows to get the third one down

"black oxide" bluing to protect from the hands oils... had to move the barrel band down a little, which is why it's bright in the middle

NECG peep
Talley barrel band
NECG front

casewell leadsled
sack of rice to weight the sled down

470 TSX and XLC bullets

good stuff

close ups of carts please

So thats what our brainchild, er ah brain fart looks like

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Ever seen a water bottle taken with a muzzleloader?

in full charge?

with a 1.5" muzzleloader?

watch the middle post!!!


Video link on how Bubbas stop charging oil bottles

Jeffe, glad you finaly fond your camera.

Hog Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
BS, while you were making your last post, we were out shooting the big bores.(film @ 11)

I will let jeffe post his info. for his rounds.

Hog Killer

Just a side note : I am putting a turn base punch in everyone package ...thats getting a set up ..Ya that means you to Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by PA Bullets:
Just a side note : I am putting a turn base punch in everyone package ...thats getting a set up ..Ya that means you to Jeff

Yipeeee

Hog Killer

Too bad you are so far away. We are having a misery shoot in two weeks. Anything over 1/2 inch is allowed, Blackpowder gets preference and there are prizes for canon and mortar accuracy. I will try to get footage and send a few photos up.
Your "canon" would fit right in.
One year "Dangerous Dave" , I think had his Howitzer on the line. That was before he moved.
Hey Dave, Chuck Snowden says Howdy.
Frank

Frank, sounds like lots of fun. I would love to shoot in it. I also have tracers for it.

Hog Killer

From far away those 470's look almost like 411 hawks, huh. Definately can't wait to see close up pics of carts...

Sorry Keith, I misread and thought it was one of Jeffe's big bore's. That looks like good "Hog Medicine" for sure.
Frank

gixxer,
ouch.. 400whelen/411hawk reference..

the 470 actually has more headspace than those (thank goodness) and HONESTLY has more headpsace than an HH case, though at a 36.5deg angle.

I spoke with manson and davidson SEVERAL times before going ahead... they both assured me it was more than enough, and with the surface area, would be a very positive stop.

and, as they said, tapered pins stop like they ran into a wall. Which is what the body actually is.

it is nice to report ZERO misfires, even during the fireforming. CH4D set the dies up for it to be nearly impossible to set the shoulder back in the dies.


I am VERY happy with it, just need to work up loads
jeffe

good to hear jeffe

damn i cant wait to have one

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
gixxer,
ouch.. 400whelen/411hawk reference..

the 470 actually has more headspace than those (thank goodness) and HONESTLY has more headpsace than an HH case, though at a 36.5deg angle.

I spoke with manson and davidson SEVERAL times before going ahead... they both assured me it was more than enough, and with the surface area, would be a very positive stop.

and, as they said, tapered pins stop like they ran into a wall. Which is what the body actually is.

it is nice to report ZERO misfires, even during the fireforming. CH4D set the dies up for it to be nearly impossible to set the shoulder back in the dies.


I am VERY happy with it, just need to work up loads
jeffe

Sorry, didnt see it as an insult. I did know about shoulder probs with the 400 Whelen though.

That makes sense to set up the dies for no shoulder bumping, makes sizing a no brainer, bottom out the die to ram, and be done with it(more or less). Leaves out that whole "room for error" thing.

gixxer..
not an insult... just seems some folks get their panties in a knot about the whelen/hawk ..


and you are right on the dies

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
damn i cant wait to have one

BS, we will all be happy when you finally get a big bore

Hog Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
BS, we will all be happy when you finally get a big bore

Hog Killer

Jeffe you seem to have worked out the problems first before building. Too bad some of the major gunmakers out there don't use that logic when introducing (or eliminating) cartrdges.
Frank

why... lookie what showed up in the mail today....

a box from midwaylootandship ...

with woodleigh 500gr 475 bullets.....


heh

wonder what to do with THESE?!??!!?

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
why... lookie what showed up in the mail today....

a box from midwaylootandship ...

with woodleigh 500gr 475 bullets.....


heh

wonder what to do with THESE?!??!!?

jeffe

You do know the Woodleigh Is an australian aboriginal word .. ? dont ya ..

Means Piss poor bullet makers... Hey!! thats what i heard !!

O by the way ... you know the 45/70 is a Rhino
rifle ...? Dont ya


Martin

Okay...

well, if you are interested in any of the AR rifles "quick" (pacnor is a 12 week lead time as of they last update on their website)

PM me and I'll give you the "menu" for a local FFL and damn fine gunsmith who can do the work faster than pacnor!!

anything from chambering an AB 458 winmag on a mauser to feeding, recoil lug, bluing, and everything else...

He's a good guy, dead straight shooter, and excellent work.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
damn i cant wait to have one

BS, we will all be happy when you finally get a big bore

Hog Killer

yeah i know you guys dont think a 45-70 is a big bore...

i'll get one this year...

which one?...

my birthday is in march soooooo

416 rigby 550 cz perhaps...

then in the fall maybe a bastardized blr to an a.r.

anyone got a used 416 rigby they want to sell?

Good news on the 470 ..

the woodleigh bullet should do over 2300 with a 26" barrel, with lower pressure than the barnes

jeffe

Jeffe-Great job you guys have done with
a series that is great for short actions,
lever and autoloading rifles.Kind of
cartridges Ken Howell likes.Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Jeff,
Did you manage to fiqure out how to get three down in the ruger AR?
What is the latest on reloading die prices for the AR line?

(moved to here for catagorization)

Snowwolf,
3 down.. with the bolt closed
Sure enough.. on the 458 and 416 in a ruger, a simple "windowed" box is all you need. There's ZERO work needed to have 2 down and load the third from the mag/top


I am sending in fired brass to CH4D to verify case drawings to reamer prints to chambers ...

I think their normal price is $169... at least that's what I've paid for 585, 500jeffe, 550 express, and 470 AR dies

If anyone else wants to have their rifles chambered or more, get with me, as Tom can deliver FAR faster than pacnor (and with better rates) .. were this will be going after the initial interest declines.

thanks all

jeffe

Jeffe, FWIW I put the drop box from my 416 on the 458 AR and can get three down easy. With a different follower I could make it 4.

Mine is a on a Mauser 98, BTW. There are some pretty extensive feed rail mods; this will an AR action for evermore, LOL. For anyone else considering this, the Ruger is the way to go unless Mausers are your religion.

Hey Jeffe, did Ruger make an RSI in a magnum?

Tigger,
FOUR down? NICE


I've spent a little time looking that the ruger MKII "standard" rifle (which covers 223 to 338... but has TWO lengths)..

if one starts with a standard rifle in a magnum caliber, it's as easy as fishing...

if one starts with the standard rifle in a standard action, the ramp and boltface will need work, you'll need a new follower, and might need to dress the rails (i doubt it, btw)

I am not certain where the shorter action starts, btw ... i THINK it's the 308 and down, but I could be wrong.


On the RSI.. you know, if they didn't I bet we can get a stock pattern and make a sweet 416

jeffe

Jeffe,

What will Tom charge to chamber a .475 barrel in this caliber?

I'm interested.

Thanks,

Garrett

Garett,
sent you a PM
jeffe

WOW, look at that eye candy. I found out today where I am going for temporary duty this summer, its gonna be so hard to save money for one of these!!