The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .375 H&H, I guess I just don't really get itGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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First off hello everyone! Secondly I have no experience hunting. Just thought I would get that out of the way. I don't want to piss in anyones cheerios, but I just don't get the .375 H&H. In my opinion its not a stopping rifle, and it seems to have too much recoil for a hunting rifle, considering aforementioned fact. Can the 9.3x62 not do everything the .375 can with less recoil? In addition to having a longer practical range and more versatility. Many people use the 9.3 as a dedicated elk or caribou gun. You can hunt elephant and cape buff with it can you not? The .375 seems way overkill for deer and boar, wheras the 9.3 is simply; "more then enough gun" in my opinion, which is distinctly different to me then overkill. No, its not a stopping rifle, but then is the .375? I just don't get it. Thoughts? | ||
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It is quite possible the 9.3X62 can do anything the .375 H&H can do. But you must remember that when the .375 H&H came out, there was an intense rivalry between the British and the Germans for control of overseas empires, and no patriotic Brit was particularly interested in buying German guns. In addition, the Germans had a rep in those days for making substandard bullets as far as performance on thick-skinned, dangerous game was concerned. So there was not much market for the various 9.3's in those days, as they were not needeed for continental game animals. You are correct that the .375 is not a stopping rifle, but most people who go on African hunts need a hunting rifle, not a stopping rifle - the PH needs the stopper! The client should not be expected to stop charging rhinos or elephant. The .375 WILL stop the great cats, however!! The .375 H&H is a great hunting rifle for game up to elephant, and even for the elephant as well, if you are a halfway decent shot. Loaded with lighter than maximum weight, faster bullets, the .375 is a great elk round, and is also well suited for the big bears with any bullet over 250 grains! But I certainly agree with you, if a person cannot shoot it due to recoil, use something that produces less recoil - like one of the 9.3's, or even the .35 Whelen. I personally like the .375 H&H, and do not consider it to have too much recoil. It certainly has less than either the .416 Rigby, or even a hot-loaded .45/70 firing 400-grain bullets! "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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I think you get it very well, and are trying to cause the need for an EKG, by causeing heart palpitations 
It doesn't have too much recoil for any type of hunting, and is more a stopping chambering than a 9.3X62 
The 375H&H has just as long practical range as the 9.3, with a heavier bullet, and more energy left at range! I use the 375 H&H to hunt Alaska all the time, for caribou and Moose, easily makeing 300 yd shots. There is no such thing as "OVERKILL"!
Both are fine hunting cartridges, if in the right rifles, but are also both medium bore calibers. The 375H&H has the top end of that range of cartridges, and all the rhetoric in the world will not change that fact! >>>>>>>>>>>>>GRIN<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  Can anyone say STRAWMAN!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Take a kid hunting and fishing, Gary | |||
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Welcome to the forum. My thoughts are that you have no experience, as you have said, and that the 375H&H is a wonderfully balanced and relatively recoilless cartridge. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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If you dont like the 375 H&H then please stick with the 9.3 it is a great cartridge also. However I am curious to know if you have you ever fired a 375 H&H? If so you should know its a tame kitty cat very easily managable. All the hoopla and BS floating around about its "fierce" recoil is just that complete bullshit. In a similer built rifle the recoil difference between a 9.3 and a 375 is not noticeable. If you can't handle a 375 you probably dont have any buisness shooting a 9.3 either. The 375 is a dandy elk cartridge and is excellent medicine for any bear on the NA continet. The 375 fills the niche for a guy who wants to take one rifle to africa to do it all. Plains game to dangerous game. I dont know where you have your facts from that the 9.3 has a longer practical range then the 375. The 375 will launch a 235gr bullet at 3000fps a 9.3 can only get approx 2500. If you want to compare 300grs then 2600 vs. 2300fps. The only slight benefit you gain from the 9.3 is it will fit in a standard action with a standerd boltface. Get a 375 and try it out. After you do your 9.3 will be left in the gunsafe  | |||
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It is pretty good on deer & antelope too. It did not destroy as much meat as my .300 did. ****************************** There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?" Martin Luther King, Jr. | |||
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My 375's a lot of fun! That's the only justification that I need. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Axhole? ScottS? BPBB? 2 bore? Judy? Piper? Ruger#1? POSeur? Well, whomever, it does seem this is a strawman post, as you express just a bit too much knowlege to be that clueless as to your answer. If you just wanted to generate a discussion, fine. If, however, you have no hunting experience, but are compemplating ele, elk, buff, boar, deer, I just don't buy it. My 2 cents on this nonsense. Bob DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
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I don't understand, what is a strawman post?
Allright, that does make sense to me. But I was under the assumption that at the time of its introduction the big game bullets available for it were leaps and bounds above those available for British cartridges at the time. I do have no hunting experience and have not fired the .375. From what I'm seeing now it appears that the "massive recoil" I was told about and read about is BS. I am not considering hunting anything anytime soon and don't know where you got that impression?
I did say practical range, and that was based on my assumption that the .375 had more recoil. Also the 9.3 has greater sectional density and I assume that would help at longer ranges. Basically my argument was based on my knowledge that the 9.3x62 had considerably less recoil then a .375, I think you can see where I got that knowledge. I simply saw no claims to the contrary on the errornet, but many claims backing up what I thought.
If I were to hunt something with it, it would be boar and bear. I don't think the .375 would be any less effective. I'm sorry if you think I'm a troll or something, I really didn't "get it". Now I see why its so popular. Before I fired a .45 ACP I was told the recoil would blow my hand off, same with a .44 magnum, I shot both and they seemed very mild. Its probably going to be the same thing with the .375, recoil ovverated by a bunch of gunstore commandos, I should have learned my lesson!
Thank you for not automatically assuming I'm a troll. | |||
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Thoughts? I think you're right. DB | |||
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The 9.3x62 has no place in the modern World  The 35 Whelen is a far more versatile cartridge. | |||
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i hear ya... the 375 can do it all but not all well is your point...and if you go to africa you will bring at least 2 rifles so why not the 30-06 and 416 rigby (or 458 lott or 404 jeffery ect) truth is it is a max cal that a lot of gun manufacturers and gun shops will cary with a half billion rifles out there...take out the nostalgia and you are better off with the 375 rum cuzz it will do more damage with heavy bullets compensating for lack of frontal area and with 200 gr bullets you can varnmit hunt with it. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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What utter bullshit ! The british guntrade was wholly and totally dependent on Mauser and their barrel makers for their bolt guns, to the extent where Mauser was saved from bancruptcy due to their dealings with the Brits. What is more Mauser's sporting action range ws developed on request of the British trade. As to bullets again I will challenge this assumption as DWM made a series of bullets designated by alphabetical designation in each caliber to be applied based on the cartrdige and it's application. The problem lay with the hunters who used the wrong chioce of bullets on game and then claiming that they failed. Same thing happens today, hunters use wrong bullets for wrong reasons and then complain they dont work. | |||
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EKG, go to a typical US gun shop and ask for pack of 9,3x62 cartridges.  | |||
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the 375 is a good heavy plains game, light DGR... recoil is mild, bullets are available and.... if you don't get big bores, you just won't get it jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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.375 is considered the best single rifle for African game becaus eof its ability to take all things great and small if done right. In America, it makes a dandy elk and brown bear cartirdge. I also seem to think it is ideal for the big boars as well. Because the bullets don't move at Mach 5+, they tend to damage less meat than the 300 super booms. If someone complains about the recoil, I would lay money on the table that they have a poor fitting stock (or are full of crap as some have already suggested.) My suggestion is to find someone in your area and try the .375. I would say that 20 rounds on the bench no longer bother me, and in hunting posture, it feels like my 30-06. As for stopping rifles, the 416 and 458 are the real deal, but require a lot of practice before you can be flinch free at the critical moment. As for the 9.3x62, it is a great cartridge that most Africans use to bag their game, but I don't think it has enough energy to be used on the dangerous stuff (legally, not physically). On a personal note, I have more .375's than any other rifle caliber (actually, only two, but it sounds impressive). If you could have only rifle to hunt the world, a stainless .375 would be the ticket. John | |||
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"Don't Feed The Animals" Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I'm glad you got that out of the way up front. Pick whatever rifle makes you happy and go forth and prosper and enjoy your time at the range. Good Luck ---------------------------------- Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Show Time. Good judgment comes from bad experience! Learn from the mistakes of others as you won't live long enough to make them all yourself! | |||
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First of all welcome to the forum, 1912 - 2006 - the .375 H&H has taken more DRG than any other Cal. To hunt you use a .375 H&H to stop a 105 Howitzer.  Roland | |||
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Recoil is relative. I'll bet that if you show up at your local range with a .375, you will be the big dog. If the .375 kicks too much, stear very clear of anything .45 caliber and up! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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And your basis for that statement is???  The 9.3x62 is dimensionally closer to a 35 Whelen Ackley Improved and can use bullets from 231 grains to 320 grains. I was considering building a 35 Whelen, but once I did the comparison, the 9.3 won hands down. Fergus | |||
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Actually you can also load the Whelen with bullets up to 310 grains. I would say that the 9,3X62 and the Whelen are close enough. I would also put the 9,3X64 in the same class as the 358 NM, Just behind the 375 H&H. | |||
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EKG, I think you are incorrect in stating that the 9.3 has greater sectional density. If I got my numbers correct, a 286 grain 9.3 bullet (actual diameter is .366 inch) and a 300 grain .375 bullet have exactly the same sectional density of .305 However, the 300 grain bullet at 2500 fps gives 4164 ft/pounds at the muzzle and the 286 grain bullet at 2300 fps gives 3360 ft/pounds. The difference in favor of the .375 being 804 ft/pounds. So, a little more power, a little more weight means, all other things being equal, a little more penetration, a slightly bigger hole and perhaps better bullet performance at longer ranges with the .375. It is slightly better, not worlds better. There are definitely more bullets available for the .375 and ammunition is available just about everywhere. Not so for the 9.3 _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I still feel it's the most versatile kid on the block !! | |||
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This past June, I watched my friend take a nice buffalo at 25 yards and a 55" kudu at 350 yards, both with a 375 H&H. That about covers it. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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My thought is that you have posed a self-ansewering question | |||
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Though I know I shouldn't feed the beast! I feel compelled, however, to defend the 9.3X62 (9.3X74R)as it is a very good cartridge, and is fully adiquate to "HUNT" all game in Africa, as is the 375H&H. Both are legal in most places for at least some of the big five, in most places, and all of them in some others. Haveing said that, I will say, the two cartridges are not the best choice for stopping a mad Elephant in tight places. It is true the 375 H&H is a better choice if these two are all you have, but not by much, in practical terms. The 375 H&H is one of my favorite cartridges in the world, and in the belted rimless, or the slightly slower 375 Flanged Mag, it is one of the most versatile cartridges one can choose, if he were to be allowed only one rifle for the world. The 9.3X62 in a bolt, or the 9.3X74R in a double is not that far behind the old 1912 375 H&H or 375 H&H flanged, so lets not get carried away with the funeral for the 9.3. I think I could live quite nicely with either of these two cartridges if that were the only choice I had. I can assure you I would not quite hunting DG simply because one of these two was all I had! Would I rather have something a little larger to stop old STOMP&HOOK, hell yes, but I wouldn't leave a wounded Buff in the bush, because these two were all I had to go into the weeds to sort him out! I guess, I simply cannot resist a strawman poster! That is a weakness, that no rifle of any size can sort out!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Well, EKG, if you were bored, or wanted some penpals; you have that done. After all is said and done, the 375 is legal for dangerous game in Africa, and the 9.3's are not. If you intend to hunt in Africa you will ned to find a way to stick .375 bullets in that 9.3 and get them to chamber. If you plan to hunt here in America, you will find a much larget choice in bullet weights and shapes, and jacket thicknesses for anything from ground squirrels to Moose and Big (including Polar) Bear. The 7mm Remington magnum aside, there are not any popular metric cartridges here, likely for good reason. There are no holes in the calibre lineup these days. regards, Rich | |||
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The difference between a 9.3x62 and a 35 Whelen is 0.008".... Not a hell of a lot! BigBullet "Half the FUN of the travel is the esthetic of LOSTNESS" Ray Bradbury https://www.facebook.com/Natal...443607135825/?ref=hl | |||
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Rich, I think you better recall that post! The 9.3s a minimum in most countries for DG, and in most places they are legal for elephant as well!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Yes. I think the .375 H&H offers only 2 advantages over the 9.3: 1. Flatter trajectory for long shots. 2. Easier to find factory ammo. | |||
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BIGBULLET, this is where Idaho should have made his stand, on legality! The 0.008 difference between the 35 Whelen and the 9.3X62 is not the only difference between them, the 9.3 is legal for DG,in almost all countries, and the 35 Whelen is not, in any! That is a substancial difference! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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EKG, If you dont get it now, you will never get it. Easy, the major difference: Hammer - Sledgehammer  286 grain bullet at 2300 fps gives 3360 ft/pounds  Roland | |||
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Going along what Jeffe is sayin, you think the 375 recoils too much? shoot a 460 WEATHERBY, and get back to us. | |||
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MacD37, My point being the ballistics between these two fine cartridges don't add up to much differance. Secondly, why would anyone capable of hunting DG use a 9.3 when the 375 H&H is so much better? If its a recoil thing, I say you need to practice more. I own a 35 Whelen which I think is great, a 9.3x62 which hasn't seen much action to date and some of the larger bores. Why use a rifle that is barely adequate, when there are such better choices regardless of the legality of the situation? This legal issue is just someone who had to draw a line someplace and the 9.3 was it. BigBullet BigBullet "Half the FUN of the travel is the esthetic of LOSTNESS" Ray Bradbury https://www.facebook.com/Natal...443607135825/?ref=hl | |||
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Simply put, the 375 is to Africa what the 30-06 is to North America - the best choice for a one rifle hunter. With it you can take any animal. Is it the ideal choice for every situation - no, but it will work in virtually all cases. The only slap on it is that it works so well that some feel that it is boring. My answer - " yes the 30-06/ 375 is boring, everything that I shoot with it just dies". | |||
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I could say that if you need to use a .375 over a 9.3 you need more practice, but I won't because I already started another thread in which I apologized and got a single response after 350 views. Suffice it to say that from what I have read I have formed the opinion that the 9.3x62 is not "barely adequate" for hunting anything that currently lives on land on this earth. I think its perfectly adequate and thousands of others who have succesfully hunted the big 5 with it seem to agree with me. As someone said before would you take a 9.3x62 into the bush to finish off a wounded elephant, not by choice. I would much rather have at least a .450 NE in that situation. Bottomline it gets the job done time and time again on any land animal efficiently and with the bare minimum of recoil. To paraphrase African Hunter, overkill on dassies and a bit short for T-Rex, not suitable at all for hunting blue whales, but anything in between is fair game right? Question: what do most pro elephant/cape buff "shooters" (not necessarily hunters because I'm including park rangers who have to cull herds, and PHs) use? Do they mostly use .45+ calibers or do they mostly use sub .45 calibers? | |||
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For a good history of the 375: http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1589608 The advantage of the 375 over the 9.3 is that the 375 is legal in most African countries for DG. The recoil from a 375 is about the same as a full load 12 gauge. I can't remember how many times I have read that most hunters can't handle the recoil of a 30-06. I also have read that most people can't shoot a 1911 .45acp because of the recoil. I guess I stopped reading the mags a long time ago because of the nonsense they spread around. Few people would look to purchase a 375 just because they desired a long range gun. Most folks I know purchase them because they are going after brown bear or they intend to hunt Africa. I have never met a whitetail hunter who thought they had to use a 375. | |||
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As did I, 99 percent of the crap written in American gunrags is just that, crap! Total BS for the most part. I like American Rifleman magazine, and I really enjoy reading African Hunter online. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .375 H&H, I guess I just don't really get it
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