Lemme say this AGAIN....

if you are making a mold, and it's a 4 casting, it casts ZERO dollars difference to make it 3 rights and a left, or 4 rights...

and then you can bring product to market... by combining the left and right orders, that reachs the 400 number, and the capital invest for having BOTH actions out decreases.

Now, the downside, have a 3+1 mold CAN be a bottle neck in a massive production...

but a MASSIVE production wouldn't have any trouble making a 400 unit order in a couple years.


Put the project in gear or can it, MRC, at this point I am indifferent... though anyone that can't turn a profit on 400 actions with a 3+1 mold, should just go ahead and close the doors, as this is a captive audience of buyers.

jeffe

Hey y'all,

I left a voice mail message and sent an email requesting a current count and estimated start-up for these actions. Hopefully, they will post the reply here.

quote:

Lemme say this AGAIN....

if you are making a mold, and it's a 4 casting, it casts ZERO dollars difference to make it 3 rights and a left, or 4 rights...

I'd like to differ here friend....we're talking investment castings and each part is molded in wax Via a injection molding machine.

The tooling for the injection molding is for a single part and if one wants another part his choice is to install inserts or make another mold!

These parts are then "pasted" Via hot knife melting to a tree and the tree is poured.

It's extremely unlikely that lefts and rights are goinf to be made in a single mold as inserting just isn't practical here.

We're talking about having trouble getting an order for 400 castings.....the chances of getting multiple cavities is equal to 0.0!

That said...once the molds are made and wax parts produced, they can easily "hot knife" weld them interchangeably to the tree! Example.....cast three rights and two lefts per tree.........this is very easy but both lefts and rights will require separate injection molding tooling.

Vapo,
was talking with fritz454 on this.. he makes these molds all the time... and we are talkign about receivers and bottoms, as the bolts and parts are independantly made... as the left and right are more than 70% the same, it should be an easy one to "work around"

jeffe

Jeffe,
"family molds" for injection tooling is commonplace and they are usually molded in the ratio of usage.

Yes, it's very possible to mold wax models three of these and one of those. BUT NOT FOR 400 PARTS!

This tooling is very expensive ($50,000 don't go far often) and multiple cavities are definitely more. I'd be willing to bet that even Ruger don't use multiple cavity molds to produce wax models.....and their volumes are far greater than MRC is looking to on these PH models.....

FWIW I fully understand MRCs decision to not invest unless a market is proven....IMO they're doing this in a fiscally responsible manner. If it were up to me the direction would be to machine these actions from bar stock prehardened. It'd cost more but it seems there's folks willing to pay a premium price.

Vapo,
you are directionally correct, but the 4 place molds count comes from MRC who is using ruger/pine castings... the 4 placer is their standard, at least that's what I recall MRC saying... the molds take about 1month of machine time to make!!!


for the 400 parts, I would nearly say that they should machine them

I have a proposal for the people here who have ordered the PH action. The numbers match: 350 actions at $600, which we have, versus 400 actions at $525 which we do NOT have yet. Do yourself a favor and call/email Jon at MRC and let him know that we would be willing to deal... MRC gives us a firm production date of early second quarter of 2007, and begin shipping on or before June 10th, and we pony up the extra $75. Those of us with more than one ordered (in my case three) agree to take one on our turn so as to let every single swinging Richard who supported the order to get at least one. Then the start filling the multiple buyer orders as received originally. This is a win-win deal. We need them to build these actions. They need us to buy them and get the word out. This will be the Corvette of MRC.

Please take just two minutes to Email or call Jon and let him know if you are really wanting one or more of these action.

regards,

Rich

PS: already called him this morning and pitched the idea...they were responsive.

I'll go the other $75 bucks...

but I still think they could do the 3+1 mold and get there and get EVERYONE their action, and be nearly the only lefty on the street

jeffe

awesome news!

thanks rich for twisting his arm to the breaking point!

rich...unless you have a special email...

mtrifle@montanarifleman.com

quote:

I have a proposal for the people here who have ordered the PH action. The numbers match: 350 actions at $600,

Actually this is less than the cost of a fully refurbished Mauser milsurp action. Equivalent features:
Hinged bottom metal, adjustable trigger, drilled and tapped, three position safety, and bent bolt handle.

Correct, Vapodog...plus the no-cost option of stainless for an alaskan model in synthetic stock.

Puleeze...don't pat me on the back here; call or Email RIGHT NOW! Do it for your country! This could be the basis for the military's new sniper rifle contract in 338 Lapua. Do it for me, I need these actions for the 550/510/474/450 Gibbs wildcats. Okay, do it for your own reasons. Just do it!

Rich

quote:

mtrifle@montanarifleman.com

rich...

start a new thread about the email campaign...

Sorry guys I have 6 on order and feel I'm taking a hell of a chance as is. No way will I pony up an extra 75 bucks for an unproven action. I have high hopes for MRC but being a MT boy the grape vine is working overtime on how they are doing on the cash side of things. I hope it's all BS and wish them nothing but sucess but the lack of stock on the standard actions(for some time) and the unwillingness to take on even the mini or Ph actions makes me think twice.

On top of that the count seems to change downward every so often. How hard is it to count to less than 400 and keep an accurate running tally. JMTC

Here's a possible solution........

MRC already has tooling and production ability for many of the components such as trigger guards, triggers, safetys, ejection port parts etc.

This is a lot of burden already overcome.

It seems all they have to do is machine single part receivers and bolt bodies.(yes there's more I know) and they have a PH model.

Later if the annual sales justify they can retool to investment tooling at their payback criteria.

This is how most folks would do it in industry. Cost reductions to the customer then are after the investment has paid off.

Jon F and I have received a lot of phone calls and emails concerning the production of the PH action.

So this morning we sat down with the owner of the Montana Rifle Company to discuss this action and the future of the project.

Here is the result of the meeting. The owner has made the decision at this time to put the PH and the Mini actions on hold until further notice. He stated "Until we get to a point where all of our in house orders for the actions that are already being produced are filled and we have inventory on hand for those actions he is unwilling to even consider starting the PH"

Please understand that this is neither mine nor Jon's decision, but we also at the same time felt it was necessary to get this out there so that all of those who had put either on order could have the time to locate other actions for their projects.

Also I've read quite a number of the posts concerning the molds. You would basically for the right hand have 2 molds. 1 for the receiver and 1 for the bolt. They are not interchangeable with left hand as they are completely different molds.

Dan

Hello,
What Fritz454 is saying about the MRC boys makes alot of sense. I think poor cash flow on keeping what they have a float is holding back production of the other size actions. Other than this site where have they advertised? I seen two ads in shotgun news. By now the regular actions should be a in stock deal not 3 to 6 months out. If I remember correctly the last time they posted here they were trying to sell the action business. Not a good sign. I wish them the best of luck but it does not look good.
John

quote:

Originally posted by Dan@Montana Rifle Co:
Also I've read quite a number of the posts concerning the molds. You would basically for the right hand have 2 molds. 1 for the receiver and 1 for the bolt. They are not interchangeable with left hand as they are completely different molds.

Dan

quote:

Here is the result of the meeting. The owner has made the decision at this time to put the PH and the Mini actions on hold until further notice. He stated "Until we get to a point where all of our in house orders for the actions that are already being produced are filled and we have inventory on hand for those actions he is unwilling to even consider starting the PH"

I am sure that was no doubt a difficult decision to come to but at least it is a definitive answer and provides some closure. Thanks for the update Dan.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Dan@Montana Rifle Co:
Also I've read quite a number of the posts concerning the molds. You would basically for the right hand have 2 molds. 1 for the receiver and 1 for the bolt. They are not interchangeable with left hand as they are completely different molds.

Dan

Yeah, you are right!!

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Dan@Montana Rifle The owner has made the decision at this time to put the PH and the Mini actions on hold until further notice. ..Dan

Guess that's that. Thanks for letting us know.

I am out and will send an email to you guys to remove me from the list. No hard feelings, but I prefer to remove myself from the obligation of the orders.

Jeff

Jeff,

This is understandable and expected. Sorry.


Dan

Ddan,
seriously, no hard feelings, and glad for the closer. Best of luck to you guys

jeffe

not me, I ain't giving up until the very last wolf is shot dead and hung on a fencepost to dry...

Rich

Sorry to hear it did not work out. However, I have spent so much time reading about the MRC PH action, if I had worked that time instead I would have earned enough to buy a Granite Mountain action.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Jeffe:

Deal.

April Fool's day it is.

where do I send the dollar?
remington is back to "late 1q07"... which, well, is how they finished 4q05.

if anyone runs into them at a show.. be VERY loud, and VERY pointed.. and tell them
"how DARE you drag this poor rifle around, when you are well aware that your brokeback company aint ever going to bring them in-country. Whaqt MORE do you need than the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to change importation annex B by act of congress. are you REALLY saying that remington is SLOWER than an act of congress? "

then open the lock, break open the action, and down teh barrels!!!

jeffe

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Jeffe:

Deal.

April Fool's day it is.


where do I send the dollar?

How about double or nothing that it won't be here as of COB on July 1, 2007????

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Jeffe:

Deal.

April Fool's day it is.


where do I send the dollar?

How about double or nothing that it won't be here as of COB on July 1, 2007????

can I just send you double
/?!??!?!?

The PH has allready been a long wait, but for the initial price I will keep waiting. I've moved forward with my original project and called Mr. Frost to make changes to the order I HAVE with MRC for the PH and will wait. It will be tough though---R.