I am sure this has been done before but it is good fun...

Question:
What other calibers should Winchester introduce in the new Safari model?

Choices:
9.3X62
9.3X64 Brennek
416 Rigby
404 Jeffery
505 Gibbs

 

Well, I started this just for fun. I own a 9.3X62 Simson made before 1912. I have never hunted DG but I have been obsessed by the classic calibers for 40 years.

I did not choose the 416 Rigby over the 404 Jeffery because it will have to be a bigger rifle / action.

My dream project rifle will be a 404 Jeffery.

For me, none of those classic cartridges belong in a M70. That is just my personal preference.

Proper DG cartridges for the M70 include the 375H&H, 416 Rem, 458WM and 458 Lott. The model 70 deserves unpretentious "workhorse" cartridges. The 375 a universal cartridge and the other three are American as apple pie.

The classics you mention belong in rifles that share their ancestry.

But that is JMHO.

I thought the 404 was as much a workhorse as you can get. It's beyond a proven cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
For me, none of those classic cartridges belong in a M70. That is just my personal preference.

Proper DG cartridges for the M70 include the 375H&H, 416 Rem, 458WM and 458 Lott. The model 70 deserves unpretentious "workhorse" cartridges. The 375 a universal cartridge and the other three are American as apple pie.

The classics you mention belong in rifles that share their ancestry.

But that is JMHO.

I agree. Winchester should, in my opinion, make sure they really do keep the .416 Rem. Mag. chambering as it is indeed the African workhorse, and it would be appropriate if it stayed that way.

And what Jason said, better than I could.

I voted 404 Jeffery, but I wouldn't mind if 9.3x64 would be chambered. It would make finding brass and ammo a heck of a lot easier for the one I currently own!

I voted 416 rigby, but like the idea of a 404 and the 505.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
What caliber should Winchester introduce in the new Safari model?

Any, as long as it's a 416Rem

I think all of the above should or could be offered at least in a limited edition. Except - The 505 will not fit. The 416Rigby might be a tight fit, if at all. Maybe someday a bigger M70 action? I like(voted) the 404J.

The 470 Capstick was done and would be a logical limited edit.

I think some of the 338 calibers would be good options.

The 300H&H and 375H&H could be sold as a matched set.

Win needs to show some imagination and perhaps once they supply the pent up demand for the three they announced, they might consider the limited edition route. Note - I dont care about expensive custom shop offerings. The beauty of the Safari is the value, Now all I need are some choices, I dont already have.

Offering the 458Win in place of the Lott is down right ignorant.

All bases are covered with the .375 H&H Mag. the .416 Rem. Mag. and the .458 Lott.

No need (nor much demand, I would think) for anything else.

(Note: I know that Winchester still loves the .458 Win. Mag., but given that we now have the Lott, I see no need or use for it.)

quote:

(Note: I know that Winchester still loves the .458 Win. Mag., but given that we now have the Lott, I see no need or use for it.)

Given what we now know about loading the .458 Win Mag...I see no need for a Lott.

Here is the perfect matched set:

300H&H, 8mm Rem Mag, 375H&H, 416 Rem, 458 Lott.

All H&H brass. Four down magazine and all set to go.

.308"
.323"
.375"
.416"
.458"

I would start with the 300, 375 and 458 Lott.

JPK

rigby won't fit in a commerically viable gun.
505 gibbs? not on a bet .. 500jeffe MIGHT but again, not on a commerically viable gun.

they should do 375 HH, 416 rem, and 458 Lott as the magnum length guns...

if they go smaller, 9,3x62 or 64, doesn't mater which, though in their cadillac model, i doubt they would go smaller than the 375HH ...

as for rigby -- i heard, from the custom shop pre-fn, that they made exactly TWO of them .. 2+1 arraingement

For me, make it in 300 H&H, 9.3X62 and 404 Jeffery.

465H&H

quote:

505 gibbs? not on a bet

Why not?

If I was going to get a 50 cal bolt gun...I think it would be .505 Gibbs.

bolt face and chamber, first off.
bolt is .700, case is .640, give it .01 for clearence, and you are left with .025 edge around the bolt

chamber/barrel..
1.0x16 .. doing the math leaves you at .148 or less (usually 3-5thou larger than case) barrel wall thickness

combined with some known feeding issues around just the rum case, .550, vs .640, its easy to see feeding, durability, and safety would be an issue.

the gibbs was specifically designed to fit the magnum maser action, and the m70 is dainty compared to that footprint.

500 jeffe? nearly the same issues, except boltface .. with its rebatted rim, .590, there's double the rim thickness, but the barrel is still pretty darn thin

then the question of length and mag -- 3.85 is probably doable in a m70, in a single stack ONLY, which would require a custom stock just to get 2+1 ... weatherby's big cases are setup that way .. with an ugly dropbox to add a third round being an option.

then we get to shootability, which is entirely subjective .. the m70 would have a tough time weighing 10# with a sporter shaped barrel...

but, COULD it be done? yes, perhaps ... but not in a factory class semicustom rifle, that is expected to feed and pass the lawyer's office..

the bolt thrust could be another issue, but that's probablt academic, rather than a practical concern.. once the rifle came out, custom stock, feeding, paperthin edge of a boltface, and light weight, at 2-4 times the cost of a 458winmag/lott, it probably wouldn't have alot of buyers .. with the CZ right there, upgraded wood, 3 pos safety, etc, for not huge dollars.

can it be done? again, i guess.. but not for a factory production gun that would be subject to internet review, lawyers, and lawsuits for a high pressure load (and there's LOTS of them on the internet)....

a 500a2, jeffe, or 500AR would be better suited, due to length, width, and feeding... and there's still tough issues to get those in that narrow platform.

Jeff,
TY!

hope it helps ..

quote:

(Note: I know that Winchester still loves the .458 Win. Mag., but given that we now have the Lott, I see no need or use for it.)

I think they're just partial to the word "Winchester" in the title.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:

quote:

(Note: I know that Winchester still loves the .458 Win. Mag., but given that we now have the Lott, I see no need or use for it.)

I think they're just partial to the word "Winchester" in the title.

i'd buy that.. IF winchester/olin cared enough to produce it on a regular schedule

404 Jeffery
They made the Rum work so they can do it if they chose.
Recoil not bad
Not too big
Classic
Nuff said

300 H&H with a 26" barrel, quarter rib express sights with 100/200/300yd leaves, and some to die for Walnut.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
300 H&H with a 26" barrel, quarter rib express sights with 100/200/300yd leaves, and some to die for Walnut.

Rich

I would vote for that!!!

sounds like a dakota.. just roll your pennies for a couple years.. or get jim kobe to do you one right!

26"???
Why not make it ultra light and 36" and it can double as a shooting/walking stick
Add some integral finger grooves behind the front sight
Damn! I want one now!

470 Capstick. They used to make M70s in 470 Capstick. It's a lovely caliber, they should bring it back and make some reasonably priced ammo to go along with it.

http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inv...-688970-win-bg.shtml

Regards,

Chuck

458 B&M and 500 AR

The 404 Jeffery sounds like a winner. A 416 on the Jeffery case might not be a bad idea either, or would that be a RUM?

I voted 404. I am partial to that caliber and would really love to see a 10.75x68!!

'Squatch

Guys, guys, guys, there is only one caliber needed in the Winchester, or more appropriately, one new bore diameter. That is?
Why the .395 if course!

quote:

the .395

Too practical. They would never go for it

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Guys, guys, guys, there is only one caliber needed in the Winchester, or more appropriately, one new bore diameter. That is?
Why the .395 if course!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Too practical. They would never go for it

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Guys, guys, guys, there is only one caliber needed in the Winchester, or more appropriately, one new bore diameter. That is?
Why the .395 if course!

.395 B&M >>> Whisper into Michaels ear...
Make it! They'll come......

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I am sure this has been done before but it is good fun...

The .358 Big Swede would
make cool offering.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
300 H&H with a 26" barrel, quarter rib express sights with 100/200/300yd leaves, and some to die for Walnut.

Rich

A quarter rib on a M70 annoys the hell out of me. Kinda like painting a union jack on a corvette.

Or stars and bars on a Subaru Outback

quote:

A quarter rib on a M70 annoys the hell out of me. Kinda like painting a union jack on a corvette.


Jason

I respectfully disagree as I don't see the analogy. A quarter rib is functional and not just a decoration. They've been added to custom Model 70's for 70 years or more. JMHO, though.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I respectfully disagree as I don't see the analogy. A quarter rib is functional and not just a decoration. They've been added to custom Model 70's for 70 years or more. JMHO, though.

quarter rib with multiple folding blade sights is as useful as hood ornament. One 100m fixed blade solidly secured to the barrel is sufficient. If I drove a Rolls I would want that ornament but why have one on Ford or a Chevy?

winchester tried the quarterrib route for some Euro guns, as a marketing ploy, per one of our posters on fitting customer requests to production guns. It FLOPPED, even though the stock was more euro and in favored euro calibers.

However, it would be good to see winchester have a competitive product offering, as compared to Dakotas and Ruger RSM

quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I respectfully disagree as I don't see the analogy. A quarter rib is functional and not just a decoration. They've been added to custom Model 70's for 70 years or more. JMHO, though.

quarter rib with multiple folding blade sights is as useful as hood ornament. One 100m fixed blade solidly secured to the barrel is sufficient. If I drove a Rolls I would want that ornament but why have one on Ford or a Chevy?

At one time before the availability of reliable scope sights, multiple sight leaves served a useful purpose. Now they just get in the way. But a quarter rib with one fixed blade is a thing of beauty and adds that classic look to the rifle. It just looks like a much more serious rifle with it. I like them.

465H&H